Tigers acquire Gary Sheffield

The Tigers have traded Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan, and Anthony Claggett to the Yankees for Gary Sheffield. The Tigers and Sheffield have also agreed on a 2 year contract extension.

Humberto Sanchez was probably the 3rd best prospect in the Tigers system behind Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller. Last year he put together his most complete season between Erie and Toledo, but once again it was sidetracked by injury. He fanned almost 3 hitters for every walk and allowed only 4 homers in 123 innings.

Kevin Whelan was drafted in 2005 with thoughts of becoming the Tigers future closer. He was pretty successful last year at Lakeland saving 27 games and fanning 69 in 54 innings. With Joel Zumaya moving to the bullpen for looks like forever, Whelan didn’t look to be counted on as a piece of the puzzle.

Anthony Claggett was very good for the West Michigan Whitecaps last year with a 0.91 ERA while striking out a batter an inning and only allowing 35 hits.

Meanwhile, the Tigers get perennial All Star outfielder Gary Sheffield. Sheffield will be 38 and is a career 297/398/525 hitter. He definitely fits the bill as the big bat the Tigers were looking for, except for the right handed part. The Tigers lineup is instantly better and with the 2 year extension, Ilitch and Dombrowski look to be making an effort to make the most of this 2-3 year window with Ordonez/Pudge/Guillen.

So the Yankees get a major league ready prospect and a couple other guys who look to have value. The Tigers get the big bat they needed while keeping their team intact. It is a little more than I would have liked to see the Tigers give up for Sheffield given his age, but it isn’t unreasonable. Given the fact that Sheffield got the contract extension he wanted it should help to keep him a happy camper.

Last year the Tigers got 258/309/460 production from the DH spot which was middle of the pack. It produced 81 RC. Sheffield’s RC the last 4 years are: 145/119/112/24. So the upgrade is pretty clear and dramatic. This is a good move for the Tigers in that it helps them in the short term without killing them long term. While I don’t know the details of the contract, I know it only extends out 3 years. If it helps the team maintain its status as a playoff team, the dollars will easily take care of themselves. The attitude issues are out there, but Sheffield sounds thrilled to be coming to Detroit. The fact that All Stars are ecstatic to be coming to Detroit speaks volumes about how far the Tigers have come.

Some nuggets from the conference call:

Jim Leyland – “I can’t tell you how happy we are.” … “I’m thrilled to death. It’s a great acquisition for us”

Gary Sheffield – “I’m more than happy to be united with guys I’m familiar with.” Sheffield also said he was ecstatic to be back with Jim Leyland and Dave Dombrowski.

According to Leyland, and he spoke with Sheffield prior to the deal, he will be mainly a DH with some playing time in right field. Leyland also said there are no plans to play him at first base.

The names involved in the trade were agreed to on Tuesday and they had 72 hours to work out the contract extension. There was a verbal agreement Thursday night and the deal was formalized after a physical Friday morning.

On being a DH Sheffield said: “I’m all for that. I thank Mr Leyland because he prolonged my career even moreso. I’m more than willing to do it, especially with a team that has been in the World Series.”

Dombrowski on other needs: He said this was the big bat they were looking for, but they are still looking for a first baseman.

89 Comments

  1. Mike

    November 10, 2006 at 4:53 pm

    Let’s hope that DD knows what he is doing. On the surface it seems a lot like signing Kenny Rogers last year. I hope that Sheffield is happy to be here.

  2. Mark P

    November 10, 2006 at 4:54 pm

    Obviously, his age and attitude are questions. Though, if he can perform like has has the last 5 years then this is a good trade. He gives us that presence in the lineup that DD was seeking. I don’t necessarily agree with this notion. It does not look like we gave up too much on paper. There are still questions about Sanchez’s ability in terms of MLB potential. There other two pitchers are relief pitchers. I am just glad we did not give up any young major talent for this guy. I am assuming that Casey will not be signed now. So much for that LH bat that we needed. This begs the question where does he play? 1B or OF? Will Maggs DH? Also, any word on the terms of the contract?

  3. Stephen

    November 10, 2006 at 4:55 pm

    if you want to read an interesting story on him, here it is. truth in advertising: i wrote it. when some of the details of the story leaked out before publicztion, sheff called me a liar to all the beat reporters. then, when he actually read the story he called to tell me how much he liked it. that’s sheff in a nutshell. he will play hard AND be a pain in the ass.

    http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/.....res/12398/

  4. charlie

    November 10, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    well, the tigers have added a great bat to the lineup WITHOUT losing anyone off the major league roster. we are about one player away from having a very scary lineup for opposing teams. i think the position is shortstop (with guillen moving to first but i’m sure there are many opinions out there and i am hoping to hear them. cheers

  5. Walewander

    November 10, 2006 at 5:04 pm

    Sheffield is all about the quick wrists. So, his wrist injury scares the hell out of me. I hope the Tigers aren’t done for the winter.

  6. Kyle

    November 10, 2006 at 5:06 pm

    Sheffield has been a good OBP guy with power to all fields. Giving up Sanchez will reduce the logjam at SP and given his health and size he may have had to pitch out of the BP eventually.

    Sheffield has the attitude issues, but if Leyland can work with Bonds & Pudge, he should get through to Sheff.

    Another good trade by DD. Tigers in 07!!

  7. Walewander

    November 10, 2006 at 5:09 pm

    “Sheffield has the attitude issues, but if Leyland can work with Bonds & Pudge, he should get through to Sheff.”

    Well, it worked out in ’97!

  8. NR

    November 10, 2006 at 5:15 pm

    Yeah, it’s not like he hasn’t had Sheff before. Hopefully he can put that injury behind him. Well, who wants to volunteer to be the first one to wear a chef’s hat to the game and wave a banner saying something like “Sheff’s kitchen” to a game?

  9. Steve

    November 10, 2006 at 5:37 pm

    Well, Im not sure I like this, preety old player and no way a first baseman. (does this seal the fate that Csey will not be back?), but lets see what happens. Why arn’t the Yanks looking to get Neifi for Jeter and A-Rods back up. We could have unloaded him. He hits and fields like A-Rod for a few bucks less.

    >> Pete are you the new Sheffield for pres guy or should I be?

    Steve

  10. Chris Y.

    November 10, 2006 at 5:38 pm

    Not a huge GS fan, but you can’t argue with his production. Sanchez has great stuff, but I agree that his health and inconsistency made him expendable for the right guy. I hope this is it. Be nice to see us get top-tier 1B.

  11. Dave T.

    November 10, 2006 at 5:43 pm

    Gotta give DD the benefit of the doubt on Shef, I wasn’t convinced with the gambler right away. Does anyone have a link to a farm systems ratings chart? Where the Tiger’s farm system matches up with the rest of the league, and who are top talents are?

  12. Ken from Cincinnati

    November 10, 2006 at 5:45 pm

    I’m just happy to have a player who jirates their bat while waiting on the pitch. We havn’t had one of those since Cecil Fielder. That was a need we desperately needed to fill.

  13. Mark P

    November 10, 2006 at 5:46 pm

    Why is Sheffield going to DH? Maggs was horrendous at times in RF last year!

    -”Dombrowski on other needs: He said this was the big bat they were looking for, but they are still looking for a first baseman.”
    So, is Shelton spending another year in the minors?

  14. Pete

    November 10, 2006 at 5:51 pm

    Why not have Guillen play first base and pick up a shortstop who is better defensively? With Guillen, Magglio, Sheff, Pudge, Monroe, Granderson, Inge, and Polanco in the lineup, we can afford to have a shortstop who is below average offensively if he is great in the field.

    Seems like Casey is all but gone. What’s the deal with Thames? For his sake I hope he can go somewhere else and DH every day. Can we get anything in return for Casey and/or Thames? Like a slick-fielding shortstop?

  15. johnw

    November 10, 2006 at 5:52 pm

    If you’re going to trade for an old hitter, Sheffield is about the safest bet around. He’s generally been durable, and his stats have held up so far (with or without chemical enhancement, depending on one’s credulity). It’s safe to say Leyland is capable of handling the attitude issues. DD has a strong record of choosing the right veterans — Pudge, Maggs, Rogers, Polanco — so I trust his judgment on Sheffield. And since DD puts a very high premium on young pitching, he must believe he still has plenty of talent in the system, and can spare these three prospects.

    As it says in the “nuggets” section of Billfer’s post, the plan is for Sheff to DH most of the time with scattered OF duty. No first base. If Leyland’s WS lineups weren’t a big enough hint, this trade almost certainly means we’ve seen the last of Marcus Thames.

  16. Marshall in DC

    November 10, 2006 at 5:53 pm

    I like this move. I but I can’t think they are done – but after Pudge having a terrible, aweful, horrible playoffs – we have to get a hitter that we can count on. I hope Maggs come around but other than Polanco and Guillen – There was no batter in the Tiger’s line-up that I had any confidence in to get a hit when needed.

  17. Joey C.

    November 10, 2006 at 6:01 pm

    Walewander, I think that’s a good point regarding Sheffield’s bat-speed and power being generated from his wrists. The injury worries me a bit. But then there’s this…

    “Everybody knows when I go to another team, I’m coming back looking for you. That’s just the way it is,” he said earlier this week. “When you let me go, I’ve got a chip on my shoulder, and I’m coming with it. That’s how I play the game.”

    Sheff has a history of lighting it up in the first year with a new team and then sort of sliding a bit. I think we’ll love his production in 07, but the romance will end in 08. I’m not sure if that kind of program is worth giving up on Sanchez and Whelan at this point.

    I’m hoping Dumbro can figure someting out for 1B. I agree with previous posters that we still need one more bat to make this lineup absolutely fearsome.

    Ken from Cinci your post is hilarious.

  18. William

    November 10, 2006 at 6:03 pm

    Dave T: according to Baseball America, these were the top prosepcts in January 2006. Be warned–just skip the section on top prospects/draft picks in recent history. It might make you nauseous.

    1. Justin Verlander, rhp
    2. Joel Zumaya, rhp
    3. Cameron Maybin, of
    4. Brent Clevlen, of
    5. Wilkin Ramirez, 3b
    6. Humberto Sanchez, rhp
    7. Jordan Tata, rhp
    8. Tony Giarratano, ss
    9. Jeff Larish, 1b
    10. Kevin Whelan, rhp
    BEST TOOLS
    Best Hitter for Average Brent Clevlen
    Best Power Hitter Wilkin Ramirez
    Best Strike-Zone Discipline Jeff Larish
    Fastest Baserunner Vince Blue
    Best Athlete Cameron Maybin
    Best Fastball Justin Verlander
    Best Curveball Justin Verlander
    Best Slider Dallas Trahern
    Best Changeup Joel Zumaya
    Best Control Jordan Tata
    Best Defensive Catcher Chris Robinson
    Best Defensive Infielder Tony Giarratano
    Best Infield Arm Kody Kirkland
    Best Defensive Outfielder Cameron Maybin
    Best Outfield Arm Cameron Maybin

    TOP PROSPECTS
    OF THE DECADE
    Team Player, Pos. 2005 Org
    1996 Mike Drumright, rhp Out of baseball
    1997 Mike Drumright, rhp Out of baseball
    1998 Juan Encarnacion, of Marlins
    1999 Gabe Kapler, of Red Sox
    2000 Eric Munson, 1b/c Devil Rays
    2001 Brandon Inge, c Tigers
    2002 Nate Cornejo, rhp Tigers
    2003 Jeremy Bonderman, rhp Tigers
    2004 Kyle Sleeth, rhp Tigers
    2005 Curtis Granderson, of Tigers

    TOP DRAFT PICKS
    OF THE DECADE
    Team Player, Pos. 2005 Org
    1996 Seth Greisinger, rhp Braves
    1997 Matt Anderson, rhp Rockies
    1998 Jeff Weaver, rhp Dodgers
    1999 Eric Munson, 1b/c Devil Rays
    2000 Matt Wheatland, rhp Golden League (Ind.)
    2001 Kenny Baugh, rhp Tigers
    2002 Scott Moore, 3b Cubs
    2003 Kyle Sleeth, rhp Tigers
    2004 Justin Verlander, rhp Tigers
    2005 Cameron Maybin, of Tigers

  19. Bryan

    November 10, 2006 at 6:20 pm

    I guess this means Bonderman is staying put? Thank god.

  20. Joshua M.

    November 10, 2006 at 6:39 pm

    Wow I thought everyone was going to love this trade as much as I did………The only thing I didnt see accomplished in this trade was the left handed bat part. Sheff is a monster at the plate and for his age he has been pretty healthy. He had the wrist injury this year but that wasnt from being old it was because he had a collision with another player. He has had 2 or maybe even 3 straight years of 120 rbi’s before this year. Now I’m not saying he is going to do that in Detroit, but he is for sure capable of it. I think a lot of it depends on the hitters in front of him. In New York he had Jeter and other great hitters getting on base for him. Granderson at lead off just became huge if he cant get on. And as far as his attittude goes I think the only people who need to worry about that are the New York Yankees!!! DD and Leyland both know him from the past so if he was that disruptive they wouldnt have traded for him. The thing to love about this is we still have Bondo and for that matter our entire starting rotation still intact. Sanchez would be a gamble with all his injury history whelan wasnt going to be closing with Zumya in the bullpen and Claggett will probably turn into a John Smoltz but oh well we have a true power hitter I am thrilled. Plus we can still pick up a guy like Huff put him at 3rd move Inge to SS and Guillen to 1st and imagine the possibilities

  21. Teymour

    November 10, 2006 at 6:43 pm

    A few thoughts:

    First, Sheff had a freak accident and missed most of the season, but he was an MVP candidate the previous year.

    Second, the Tigers did not have anyone that struck fear into the opposing pitcher, Sheff does, maybe even more so than any batter in AL.

    Third, if the Tigers face the Yanks again in the playoffs I am confident we will see a HUGE Sheff Homerun in Yankee Stadium, and I am also confident that we will not see Humberto start any of those games.

    Finally, the Tigers have their bat and they did not trade a front-line starter. And lets not forget that the Tigers have a log jam at the “future ace” position right now.

  22. Chris in Nashville

    November 10, 2006 at 6:48 pm

    When I first heard of this trade, I wasn’t a big fan. But the more I think about it, I think this will solitify the middle of our lineup. Sanchez appears to have stamina issues, so I imagine he will end up in the bullpen in the long run. We have so many starters on the 40 man roster and in the farm system, that I think this guy was expendable. I do hope that all 3 of these guys all turn in to Jeff Weavers for the Yankees because I HATE the Yankees. Back to Shef, if you look at his stats, almost every year, he has more walks than strikeouts, which is perfect for the middle of our lineup. If he was left-handed he would be perfect. But if you stick him at DH, try to get Casey back to play first or Huff at first (I still think we’d be better off with Guillen at short and Inge is a gold-glove calliber 3B in the making). And I vote for Shef to bat 3rd in front of Maggs and behind Polanco. Not a bad 1st 5 of the lineup (Grandy, Polanco, Shef, Maggs, Guillen). I know like the deal!

  23. Tim D

    November 10, 2006 at 6:50 pm

    Most similar players to Garry Sheffield:

    Jeff Bagwell (895)
    Ken Griffey (877)
    Willie Stargell (863) *
    Fred McGriff (854)
    Billy Williams (852) *
    Duke Snider (842) *
    Mickey Mantle (840) *
    Eddie Mathews (840) *
    Frank Thomas (837)
    Jim Rice (833)

    *denotes HOF

    So let’s see, 5 HOFrs and Bagwell and Griffey who will be in for sure. And Thomas should be.

    Career OPS .923, OPS+ 145. Al Kaline was .856/.134. Sheffield can HIT. The downside is that he was hurt, is old and can get hurt again. If healthy he takes clean up from Maggs. I don’t like giving up young pitchers but they still have Miller, Tata, Jurrjens, etc.

    This is a good rade for a team that is going for it. They need a LH 1b that’s not named Sean Casey (with all due respect to his WS performance). Helton or Dunn.

  24. cameramano

    November 10, 2006 at 6:52 pm

    I’m not sold on paying such huge money for a 37 & 38 year-old.

    Even moreso, what is up with focusing on a 2-3 year window? Verlander, Bonderman, & Robertson are all so young. With three top-tier pitchers, the Tigers stand to be in contention just on that basis. Once a team is in the playoffs, being the absolute best team doesn’t factor enough in the crap-shoot to make sacrifices to achieve the status.

    Still, I’d have said the same of Maggs and Pudge.

  25. Joshua M.

    November 10, 2006 at 6:59 pm

    chris I didnt know Huff had played 1st before, but I still think Inge would better at SS than at 3rd I think if you move him to SS he is gauranteed a gold glove where as at 3rd he still has that long throw to 2nd/ right field cause thats where it often ends up. If you look at most of Inges errors this year they were on the throw not the catch. His range is perfect for SS and I just dont think we can handle another season with him and Guillen making as many errors as they did this year. So they either have to improve or somethings gotta change. As far as Dunn goes I dont think we will make another blockbuster trade I think free agency will be where we get our 1st baseman. I am hearing alot about Cat coming back and that would give us a left handed bat that hits for a high average, and can play anywhere on the infield.

  26. Andy in NY

    November 10, 2006 at 7:19 pm

    I think this is a pretty good deal. You never know how an A ball pitcher is going to work out in the long run, and minor league relievers usually have very little trade value. Sanchez is a loss, but we have enough major league ready arms in the organization to let go of one.

    Cameramano: Unless you’re the Yankees or the Braves, you have to think in 2-3 year windows in baseball these days. Your young pitchers get hurt, or your players price themselves out of your budget. In the long run, we’re probably not going to resign both Bonderman and Verlander, it’s hard to pay two guys “ace” money. So we have to go for it now.

    I like the lineup this way: Granderson, Polanco, Guillen, Sheffield, Maggs, etc… Guillen should have been batting third all last year and we get a little more balance this way.

    One question to consider that no one has raised: This is the same kind of package that probably would have netted Soriano at the trade deadline (Sanchez + a couple live arms); would we rather have Sheffield with a new 3-year deal, or Soriano with a 5-year deal in that lineup? I can’t make up my mind. Sheffield has the edge in OBP and he fits better in the middle of the order, but he’s more likely to break down and he doesn’t slot into a position as easily.

  27. Brian A.

    November 10, 2006 at 8:04 pm

    i don’t like the trade and i think my dislike is going to turn into absolute hate when we finally find out the terms of the extension. we might as well start thinking of this team as a retirement community where players past their prime come to regress and pound those last few figures into their retirement funds.

  28. Jojo SunDevil

    November 10, 2006 at 8:30 pm

    HOORAY!!! I love this trade. Gary Sheffield is a power bat through the middle of the lineup and I think that he is going to fit in great with this group of guys. When he wants to be, he can be a great teammate.

    I don’t know if he will put up astronomical stats, but 35 and 100 are within reach, and he will be a great additional power hitter, and he never strikes out.

    Because he never strikes out, I see him hitting third, with Granderson and Polanco 1 and 2. Great addition! I think he will be welcome, and will welcome the lack of New York pressure and no more Yankees egos

  29. Andy

    November 10, 2006 at 8:35 pm

    I like it, I like it. Any time you can get a future HOF’er for three minor leaguers it’s a good trade. Especially when two of the prospects are still in A ball.

    Only one concern, Sheff’s OPS has declined the past four years

    2003: 1.023
    2004: .927
    2005: .891
    2006: .805 (though last season doesn’t really count)

    Still, though declining, those numbers are awful impressive.

  30. Jonathon

    November 10, 2006 at 8:57 pm

    I was shocked at first but its starting to grow on me. You hate to give up pitching prospects and I’m not a GS fan, but this looks like a good trade. The last few years at the plate, nobody scares me more than GS has. Like someone before said, we still have top pitching prospects in Jurrjans and Miller with De La Cruz as a good bullpen guy. Doesn’t look like Bonderman is going anywhere now so they will be signing a first base. In DD we trust.

  31. Brian Dukeman

    November 10, 2006 at 9:23 pm

    you can analyze it all you want. bottom line it’s a good deal. Period.

  32. Mike F

    November 10, 2006 at 9:33 pm

    >would we rather have Sheffield with a new
    >3-year deal, or Soriano with a 5-year deal

    Sheffield. I doubt the Tigers would have signed Soriano to any deal if they have gotten him in a trade. Plus, if this had been a trade the Nationals would have excepted, the Tigers would have made it. The breaker was that the Nationals wanted Maybin. And no, I wouldn’t have traded two of my top six prospects for anybody.

  33. KS

    November 10, 2006 at 9:59 pm

    My only question is, why give up anything, when similar players can be found where the only price is money? In this case, you’re giving up some of your future AND money. This is what free agency’s for. How often do you see 38 year olds getting traded for a similar package to what the Tigers just gave up?

  34. Nick G

    November 10, 2006 at 10:00 pm

    Sheff is old, expensive, an injury risk, and a potential clubhouse cancer. In other words, a perfect Tigers signing!

    Seems we heard all or most of those words from the pundits to describe Pudge, Maggs, and Kenny when we signed them. Turned out OK.

    I have a theory that DD looks for guys who have something to prove. Here’s to all the doubters feeding Sheff’s fire this off-season. Keep it up!

  35. Walt

    November 10, 2006 at 10:15 pm

    With this team and their recent history, I am afraid to speculate how this will turn out. Remember about a year ago many thought (not me):) Rogers to be an inadequate replacement for Jason Johnson.
    http://www.detroittigersweblog.....mment-1362

    That, and I have been trying to find a reason to direct attention to this post from the past.

    Walt

  36. Cameron in Singapore

    November 10, 2006 at 10:40 pm

    Very good trade. We gave up a lot, but we had a lot of young pitchers. I think it’s great that we got a bat of Sheffield’s quality without having to make any adjustments to the major league roster, or trade Maybin or Miller. Very good trade on many levels.

  37. Walewander

    November 10, 2006 at 11:13 pm

    “My only question is, why give up anything, when similar players can be found where the only price is money? In this case, you’re giving up some of your future AND money. This is what free agency’s for.”

    But signing Lee or Soriano entails a 5-7 year commitment that doesn’t meet our OBP needs. It’s not the money that kills you, its a bad last 3-4 years of a contract you have to eat in a bad trade just to get rid of the guy. If we get 2 years of 2005 Sheff, I’ll be happy. 1 year of 03 Sheff, and I’ll be ecstatic. And prospects, well, you can’t just hoard them, you have to use them to meet their needs – see Braves, Atlanta, the organization whose path the Tigers should be emulating right now.

  38. Andy in WB

    November 10, 2006 at 11:37 pm

    After listening to the conference call at the tigers website this is what I think…..
    Jim Leyland sounded like a kid at christmas,
    Gary Sheffield sounded like he just landed his dream job,
    That’s what they’re both supposed to sound like.
    However, both Sheff and Jim have tremendous respect for each other and have won a world series together.
    The biggest thing I think that happened today was that the baseball world is going to learn real quick what the hockey world learned in the 90′s…..Mike Illitch will sign blank checks to give his team a chance to win championships.
    I don’t think this will be the only major pick up, just the first.

  39. Mike F

    November 11, 2006 at 12:10 am

    I don’t think the Tigers gave up a big chunk of their future. Sanchez is an injury risk (I don’t think he’s had a healthy season yet). Whelan is maybe insurance, but Zumaya seems to be the closer of the future. And Dad has been telling me about all the great pitchers the Tigers have throwing for the Whitecaps since Buddy Bell was manager.

  40. Joey C

    November 11, 2006 at 12:33 am

    Gee…thanks for busting my balls Walt.

    Tis true I wasn’t happy with either the Rogers or the Jones signings…particularly Jones. But I guarantee to you nobody was predicting that we’d end up watching Kenny carry us to the series when that signing went down.

    I’ll keep forming oppinions based on the available evidence at hand and try not to worry that they may not all be proven right in the end.

    I can’t believe you remember that one post from a year ago!

  41. Kyle J

    November 11, 2006 at 12:46 am

    This says the extension is for $28 million–$14 million per year, presumably. That doesn’t seem too unreasonable. Sheffield will no doubt decline, but he’s declining from a pretty high level. If he can stay around the .500 SLG/.400 OBP level, this should be well worth it.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2656847

  42. Joey the K

    November 11, 2006 at 1:26 am

    Strike while the Iron is hot, it was awesome getting to the Series this year and it isn’t going to get any easier, we were definitely missing that one big bat that people fear (like how I feel when Thome, Dye, Ortiz, -not Hafner, we own him!- are up at bat) now we have that. I like this deal, lets reload for next year and let DD take care of the future for us.

    Do we really want Dunn? Then we would have the #1 and #2 strikeout guys in the league! And Alf Soriano, I think his attitude is more of a problem than Sheffs. It sounds like he is psyched to back with Leyland and DD. The guy is a gamer and he is psyched to be a Tiger (probably cuz he won’t have to face Verlander or Zumaya anymore).

    Sheff has always been a guy I could like but didn’t, now I find it very easy to like him and I am psyched about the deal. I don’t think I could ever like Barry Bonds. I think this might open the door more for Casey to return, which I would like but I think Case might be a better bench guy at this point. Altho now we could trade Marcus and hopefully he could go somewhere and be a full time player.

    We know DD isn’t done yet tho. Wow, I’m glad to land a bat like this so early. Wooohooo.

    On a side note, Gibby got tabbed as a bench coach for AZ. Good for him, good for them, Congrats to Gibby. I might actually watch the Tram/Gibby…er I mean Cubs/Dbacks games on MLB extra innings next season now.

  43. Andy in WB

    November 11, 2006 at 1:45 am

    joey c, walt is my brother in law and almost as much of a tiger fan as me…..he had to drag me into the weblog ages, he’s extremely smart and very insightful because he gets his info from me…just kidding.
    what i do think is that this sets up a big push for zito or schmidt, plus a trade of thames and robertson/bondo for texiera
    monroe isn’t going anywhere, leyland said it himself, sort of, saying that sheff could give mags or monroe days off.

  44. Mark P

    November 11, 2006 at 1:59 am

    The 2-3 window should be a major concern/consideration with this team, especially with the way MLB economics are situated. With that in mind this is a good trade. Where else are you going to get a future Hall of Famer?

  45. Bob S.

    November 11, 2006 at 10:47 am

    To Tim D,who mentioned Sheffield in the same paragraph as Al Kaline-don’t.Before you all get too exuberant with your reveling,while you’re cheering Sheffield on in 2007,never forget his claiming to have purposely made errors while playing shortstop in Milwaukee to hasten his departure from that team.Aside from 1919 White Sox,I can’t think of another situation to compare that to.Arguably for the same reason,also-personal gain.

  46. Chris Y.

    November 11, 2006 at 12:03 pm

    I agree with Bob S.

    This is really my only concern with Sheffield as well — his attitude. He has said alot of things that made me wish he wasn’t in baseball, and now he’s on our team. Hope Leyland know which strings to pull.

    The only saving grace is the guy hits the absolute snot out of the ball. I agree with the comment that he is maybe the most feared hitter in all of baseball. He’s definitely in that conversation anyway. I am not worried about his age over the next 3 years.

    Looking at the Sox lineup, that middle of the order is where we need to try to get to offensively. If the Sox and our current lineup came back to their career averages, it ain’t even close. I liked Catalanotto as a trade-deadline pick but he’s not even in my top-ten offseason acquisition list as a free-agent. We need a top-tier 1B and Frank ain’t it. Neither is Huff. If that’s the choice, Frank wins in a landslide.

  47. Lou

    November 11, 2006 at 1:05 pm

    I think the proper paradigm is the Red Wings. Once Illitch got a good team together he was willing to do whatever it took to bring in the best players available. I think he’ll do that with the Tigers as well. If Sheffield isn’t working out in two years, we’ll trade him for 60 cents on the dollar and get the next available star.

  48. Joey C.

    November 11, 2006 at 1:48 pm

    Speaking of the Wings…

    They’re on a tear! About a week and half ago I read an article at ESPN.com talking about how their run of great hockey teams was over. Dude jumped the gun a bit on that one.

    And I won’t jump the gun on this deal either–I’m learning Walt!–but I will say that if we don’t sign a corner infielder of some merit by the end of the season, I’ll be disappointed. This deal will look brilliant if we can lock up someone to play first. I just don’t think that Sheff on his own is really the acquisition we really needed.

    Kinda like Big Ben and the Bulls. That would’ve been a great signing had they found a way to land Garnett, but they didn’t. Instead they gave up a lot of money to a guy who isn’t going to get them over the hump on his own.

  49. Jojo SunDevil

    November 11, 2006 at 2:02 pm

    Losing Humberto Sanchez could be horrible. From what I have heard Sanchez was supposed to be like another Verlander. But he did also recently have elbow surgery. But if Sanchez does very good, and Sheffield only has one good year, this may be an ouch.

    But the fact is the Tigers have a lot of good pitching prospects. They have a ton. Verlander, Minor, Colon, Durbin, Lewis, Grilli, these are all guys that could potentially be or are starters. And then Bonderman and Robertson are also young. So Sanchez was trade bait somewhat. And getting that power in the middle of the lineup, will be great.

    It’s gonna be fun seeing Gary hitting from gap to gap in Comerica park, knocking in the speedier Granderson, Polanco and Guillen.

  50. Greg

    November 11, 2006 at 5:33 pm

    I like the trade when comparing Sheff to what was given up. But I don’t know how much it improves the lineup, because all it does is take at-bats away from Thames, which is an upgrade, but not as much as Texeira over Casey/Shelton. Nor does it address the lack of a power-hitting left-handed bat.

    I guess I like the trade, but hope more is coming.

  51. Adam

    November 11, 2006 at 8:11 pm

    I’m watching the Tigers Season Review on FSN right now – sooo good!

  52. Mike F

    November 11, 2006 at 9:39 pm

    >Sheffield on in 2007,never forget his claiming to
    >have purposely made errors while playing
    >shortstop in Milwaukee to hasten his >departure from that team.Aside from 1919
    >White Sox,I can’t think of another situation to
    >compare that to.Arguably for the same reason,
    >also-personal gain.

    Mickey Mantle wrote about how he and Whitey Ford would give up homers in the All-Star Game to settle golf bets.

  53. Joshua M.

    November 11, 2006 at 10:22 pm

    I just saw a stat on ESPN that over the last i think 5 seasons the top averages with runners in scoring position and sheffield was i think number 4 on the list and much to my suprise right behind him was Catalanotto. Put him and sheffield in a lineup with guillen and palonco and i dont see it being much better than that a left handed bat on top of it all

  54. Nate A

    November 12, 2006 at 3:17 am

    Finally ending the baseball isolation after the horrible WS.

    My initial reaction to this, awful. I don’t like his age, I don’t like his salary, I don’t like his attitude(still, I thought the same about Rogers last offseason), I don’t like his vibrating bat, and he’d better not be playing a position. I was thinking even if it meant we got rid of Nefi to aquire him, it would still be a horrible move.

    But if he can keep his ego in check and his numbers consistant, I guess I’ll take it. We definately do need that serious threat in the lineup. I have no problem displacing Thames as DH. I also think what we lost in the trade makes it a better deal. Sanchez has always been waiting to happen, and then suddenly he breaks something. The other two are to early to tell, but its a risk you take. That leaves the cash as the only reasonable thing I can be unhappy with, and well, it aint my money anyway and there’s no cap. Especially good if he actually wants to be here.

    Add me to the votes for a good consistant 1B and we’ll have a much nastier lineup next season. I’ll take Casey for $2-4 mil if I have to or for the bench, but not the $8 he’s been making. Teixeira of course would be great, but a costly aquisition. Lyle Overbay(TOR) or Nick Johnson(WAS) might be good pickups for a lefty. Although, none of those 3 help the strikeout issue much. To bad Philly will never give up Ryan Howard.

  55. Mark in SF

    November 12, 2006 at 3:25 am

    Wow! I just found out about the news, and I’m thrilled. I think this is a terrific deal for the Tigers, for reasons already mentioned — he’s the first truly fear-inspiring hitter in our lineup, he’ll be the most patient bats in the lineup, he’ll put the ball in play almost all the time (when he’s not hitting over a fence), he brings championship experience, he fits in with dombrowski and leyland, and he brings all of this NOW, as opposed to some point in the future that may or may not materialize.

    That said, I think this was also a good trade for the Yankees — one of those pareto-optimal trades that economists love. The Tigers had a plethora of pitchers and could afford to give up an arm. The Yankees had more bats than they knew what to do with. A good swap for all teams involved.

    Can I buy tickets now for a Tigers-Yankees ALCS?

  56. Kurt

    November 12, 2006 at 12:20 pm

    I have my first and only worry: too many DHs in the future. Just off the top of my head we have:

    Magglio (RF/DH): 2007, 2008, 2009, (option 2010/2011)
    Sheffield (OF/DH): 2007, 2008, 2009

    2007 isn’t a big concern. But 2009? Maybe even 2008? You start to wonder about those years unless someone wants to play first base. (I just heard Sheffield roll his eyes at that).

    If Maybin is predicted to be a 2008 Tiger, that means Monroe has one last season starting in Detroit. Or maybe this means the Tigers aren’t going to worry about that until 2009 and allow him more time to mature, which isn’t a bad idea at all.

    In any case, I really like this for 2007 and we’ll cross the other bridges when we get there.

  57. Bobber

    November 12, 2006 at 1:30 pm

    Striking how similar the Sheffield/Tigers and the Thome/White Sox deals are.

  58. Bob S.

    November 12, 2006 at 7:09 pm

    You’re right,MikeF,it’s virtually the same,and I will stipulate to it the next time I see defense played in an NBA or NHL All-Star game.I’m not going to the mat to defend Whitey Ford or Mickey Mantle,as they were obviously guys with some character flaws,but comparing exhibition games with serious competition is comparing apples and oranges(actually,a more accurate comparison might be Denny McClain grooving a fastball so Mickey Mantle could pass Jimmie Foxx on the all time home run list).
    While I recognize Sheffield’s greatness as a hitter,Al Kaline was one of the classiest competitors to ever wear a major league uniform,my favorite ballplayer of all time,and it was personally distasteful having him compared to a carpetbagger who has not only given less than 100%, but deliberately ‘threw’ plays,if not games,because he wasn’t getting his way.Actually,he’s a rare combination-a guy who not only cheated to win(with steroids),but cheated to lose.That’s who we’re gonna be cheering for this year.The worst quality of sports fans is our blindness to the good,bad,or ugly,so long as they play for ‘our’ team.

  59. Greg

    November 12, 2006 at 9:41 pm

    I actually think that’s the best quality in our sports fans, taking the good with the bad for your team (e.g. rooting in 06 AND 03). But I understand the desire for having good sportsmen.

    Kurt, excellent point about having too many DH types. I think generally we have a glutton of outfielders–Monroe, Thames, Granderson, Ordonez, and Sheffeild, plus Clevlen and Maybin waiting in the wings. I would rather use our extra pitching towards middle infield prospects or a reliable hitting first basemen.

    That’s really back to my previous post. From an accounting standpoint, I like what we acquired compared to what we gave up. But I’m not sure we best addressed our needs.

  60. Sam

    November 12, 2006 at 10:09 pm

    On Al Kaline,

    If you ever meet him, you may not think he is so classy. He impressed me as being a rather grumpy old man. I know many who have met him and agree that he is rather stand offish. And No, I am not some fan who runs up to him and shoves a piece of paper in his face for an autograph.

    Media personalities can be false. For instance, Eddie Murray may be one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.

    I’ve heard if you get to know Al Kaline, he is nice.

    -Sam

  61. Bob S.

    November 13, 2006 at 10:23 am

    Remaining a fan through good times and bad is not the same as rooting for whatever sociopath puts on a Tigers or Red Wings uniform.There are fans who would make excuses for Charles Manson or Saddam Hussein if they could hit 40 home runs or score 40 goals.Now obviously,comparing a guy like Sheffield to serial killers is ridiculous,but the fact remains that he is guily of what is maybe the most egregious crime a competitor can commit-purposely failing,at the expense of their teammates and fans,to secure their own profit.
    I have met Al Kaline,in trying circumstances(for him).He’s a very gracious individual.In fact,my work has provided the opportunity to meet many past and present local sports and entertainment celebrities and I can say with some confidence that the guys who play or played for our 4 major sports teams present themselves very well in public.

  62. Kurt

    November 13, 2006 at 11:09 am

    The fact of the matter is, athletes are people. Some are great guys on and off the field, some, some are private, some are bad guys who everyone knows about, and some are bad guys who manage to keep that hidden. “Present themselves” was the right way to say it, because it’s exactly that, managed.

    The fact remains, this isn’t the church softball league here. We’re not rooting for a bunch of saints. A lot of those guys from the past weren’t saints either.

  63. Walt

    November 13, 2006 at 11:13 am

    I think that this deal is better than the Thome deal because I think we gave up less than Rowand. Rowand is a major league starter and the sux missed him all year because they didn’t have a goood replacement for him. We gave up a prospect that under the right circumstances, might make it as a replacement in a pinch. Hopefully Sheff will do as much for us as Thome did for his new team. If he is even close, this will be a better deal because we traded from a position of depth in our organization. On the other hand, at the beginning of last year, we had too many first basemen and the year before, we had a surplus of relievers.

    Walt

  64. Bob S.

    November 13, 2006 at 2:24 pm

    Of course athletes are people,with all the usual human foibles,and it’s certainly reasonable to hold them to lower standards of behaviour than sexually obsessed priests or evangelists who hold themselves out as moral exemplars.But,considering just a few of the athletes this blue collar city has embraced-Howe,Louis,Kaline,Trammell,Hearns,Yzerman,Dumars-which of them could you honestly imagine giving less than their best effort let alone deliberately making errors out of pique and greed?And that may be part of the reason such a good player has bounced around so many teams-you look at the list of cities he’s played in and it looks like one of those t-shirts rock’n’roll bands peddle listing all their tour stops.

  65. Joshua M.

    November 13, 2006 at 2:48 pm

    Im just glad that since our team is now tainted with the evil Shef that its a good thing we have so many fans that are saints to offset how evil he is. I know none of us have ever cheated at anything in life, and none of us have ever been so depressed we just wanted to quit doing whatever it was and just go somewhere else and start over. On top of it all I know we fans have never just said something to piss some one else off or get attention by saying yeah I did a bad job on purpose. Well thats all I have to say no time have to go pray Shef doesnt rub off on the rest of the Tigers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  66. Bob S.

    November 13, 2006 at 6:55 pm

    Thanks for making my point about fans making excuses,Joshua.Not exactly a sterling commentary on your own character,however.Cheating and purposely doing bad work(please tell me you’re not a surgeon or airplane pilot)are not as ubiquitous as your parents seem to have taught you.I’m sure they’re very proud.As for the depression,it’s completely understandable with such a jaded worldview.See a doctor-it’s treatable with meds.

  67. Joshua M.

    November 13, 2006 at 8:45 pm

    And Bob if you are going to sit there and tell me you have never in your life cheated on anything no matter if it was a pre school coloring assingment or writing how great you are on a job application then you are a not only a cheat but crazy if you expect me to believe you. Sorry but we are all humans and everyone (well everyone but you apparently) can admit to the mistakes we have made in the past. Im not making excuses for any one I am trying to point out that you make mistakes just like Shef but you arent as talented as him so they arent pointed out to the nation. But dont worry it is all clear to me now because if your willing to start attacking me without knowing a damn thing about me then it shows me where you get off doing it to Shef who I am sure you dont know either. You are obviously Jesus reborn and all knowing and perfect. If you want to complain because he sucks at baseball fine, but I just think its unfair to judge a person based on his character when all you have to go by is what is printed in the paper. You probably thought Kenny Rogers was the worst signing ever cause he was a bad apple right???

  68. Nate

    November 13, 2006 at 9:31 pm

    Joe Sheehan offers his thoughts on the trade in today’s (11/13). Warning: It’s a premium offering.

    Money quote:

  69. Nate

    November 13, 2006 at 9:33 pm

    Well, that totally didn’t work. Anyone know a good XHTML primer…apparently I don’t have nearly as good computer intuition as I thought.

  70. Andy in WB

    November 13, 2006 at 11:39 pm

    gary sheffield reminds me of rasheed wallace…..good trade, nuff said

  71. Greg

    November 14, 2006 at 1:17 am

    I agree with the Sheed analogy. It will be good at first, and probably not end so well, once the grace period wears off.

  72. Bob S.

    November 14, 2006 at 11:11 am

    Joshua,my son,questions about Sheffield’s character are fairly well known to anyone whose attention to baseball dates past this most recent season.In my original comment,I pointed out that Sheffield admitted and the media reported(pay careful attention,that’s reported the admission,not manufactured the allegation)that he deliberately made errors in Milwaukee and suggested a comparison to Al Kaline was inappropriate.Predictably,apologists such as yourself rushed to his defense.Comparing the somewhat less-than-professional actions of a major league ballplayer to a preschool coloring assignment is,I guess,one such defense,albeit not a very good one.
    Don’t pout about my “attacking” you.If you review the context,I was clearly responding to a comment in which you attempted to mock my concern about Sheffield’s character.If you’re going to play that game,you need some thicker skin-you don’t know when you’re going to get poked back with a sharper stick.
    Please remind me of anyplace I stated I have never made mistakes-in fact,a list would require a website of it’s own.However,I can unequivocally say I have never deliberately failed at anything I’ve ever attempted-that includes especially anything that someone was paying me to do to the best of my ability.For a professional in any walk of life,from sports to medicine to the military,deliberate failure is a betrayal of trust that should never be forgotten.
    Sincerely,
    Jesus reborn

  73. Greg

    November 14, 2006 at 11:30 am

    Bob, it would be easier to understand you if you put spaces between your sentences. Jesus wouldn’t have his writing so cluttered and hard to follow.

  74. Joshua M.

    November 14, 2006 at 1:39 pm

    Ummm Funny I dont remember mentioning your name in my first post??? I said Tigers fans (plural) and there was for sure more than you questioning Shefs character. So no you did not have a right to put my name in your post or to question my parents in anyway, or say I need to be put on meds. So maybe you should be re reading post on here not me. My comparison to coloring was the comparison to cheating which you say you have never done. And when pointing out that Shef admitted to making errors did you happen to point out that he retracted those statements??? You must have missed that. Which is why I said in my post that people say things to get attention. So whether he actually did it or not only he knows. I compete in a lot of sports and no matter how mad I could be I could never make an error just to do it, but I sure as hell could say that I did to get the attention of whoever I was mad at. And save your dumbass comments about my character cause you dont know me so you dont know my character. Which is my whole point you are basing all your opinions on peoples character based on things that are written you dont know me you dont know Shef so stop judging us based on things you dont know. Now if you want to go undercover and become Shefs best friend just to prove me wrong go for it but until you have at least shaken the mans hand dont act like your better than him or me for that matter. oh and P.S. I love Al Kaline and any comparison to him is way off

  75. Bob S.

    November 14, 2006 at 3:02 pm

    Sorry,Greg,John T.Baptist taught me to write in paragraphs.
    Joshua,it’s a bit of a dodge to pretend it hasn’t been me making most of the noise about Sheffield’s character ,or that it wasn’t me that raised the topic of his,ah,’fielding issues’.So I felt comfortable responding on behalf of all those ‘fans’ who you would deny sainthood to.
    Let’s not forget it was you who essentially admitted to cheating,depression,and poor work habits.It’s apparently surprising to you that not everybody is wired that way(my apologies to your parents if you formed your low opinion of people on your own).It’s true,I don’t know you,but I based my opinion of your character on what you wrote about yourself,not what I read in a newspaper.It was you who felt it necessary to project your own character flaws onto me by calling me not only a cheater but also a liar.Uh,Joshua,’you don’t know me so you don’t know my character’.
    If it’s true that Sheffield didn’t mean what he said(my own opinion is that it was the public condemnation he received that made him retract his initial statements)then both you and him need to learn that the things you say and write have consequences.

  76. Nate

    November 14, 2006 at 4:43 pm

    Can we get the discussion back on focus?

    The initial comparison was:

    Career OPS .923, OPS+ 145. Al Kaline was .856/134. Sheffield can HIT.

    The comparison had nothing to do with character, and it certainly didn’t have anything to do with the character of any of the weblog’s readers.

    All Tim D. is saying is that, even when put in the context of their eras (Kaline in the hitting poor ’60s, Sheffield in the hitting rich ’90s and ’00s), Sheffield is better at hitting a baseball than Kaline was. EQA, when adjusted for era and ballpark, tells the same tale — Sheffield, .319; Kaline, .300.

    We’re dealing with two excellent ballplayers here, but the stats seem to give the edge to Sheffield. Intangibles? Well, they’re called that for a reason.

  77. Walt

    November 14, 2006 at 5:20 pm

    Hey Andy,

    What is winning an argument on the internet like?

    Walt

  78. jim-mt

    November 14, 2006 at 6:03 pm

    I remember Kaline was Mr Clutch-if the Tigers needed something in the late innings, he was the man-whether it was a catch, throw or hit. Stats don’t always show that and I know how Sheffield is in those kind of spots, but he will never measure up to my hero.

  79. Bob S.

    November 14, 2006 at 7:28 pm

    Al Kaline was my favorite player growing up.Despite that,I always reluctantly recognized he fell somewhat short of the big dogs of the era-Mays,Aaron,Mantle,maybe Frank Robinson-all guys who,like Kaline,excelled at every aspect of the game,but who hit with more power.His closest peers were probably guys like Clemente and Billy Williams(this is purely intuitive,as frankly,I’m not presently motivated to look at their comparative stats.)
    I’ve never denied Sheffields ability to hit a baseball.However(jesus,I hate to open up this can of worms again)his OPS&EQA is given a healthy boost by his mid-career power surge, which is most likely a result of performance enhancers.Like it or not,it’s something that’s gonna’ dog all the players of this era,whether they deserve it or not.
    I have no choice but to concede the numbers give the argument to Sheffield-they’re there in black and white).However,I can’t recognize him as Kaline’s superior as a hitter,like I do Hank Aaron or Alex Rodriguez(speaking of A-Rod,how the hell does Joe Crede get the Silver Slugger for AL 3B?).

  80. stephen

    November 14, 2006 at 7:30 pm

    Sheffield didn’t intentionally make errors with the Brewers. It is one of the great baseballmyths of the past 20 years. If you can dig up a non-apocryphal reference to it happening i will buy you all a case of Vernors. Sheff is a pouter and malcontent, but this charge simply doesn’t stick.

  81. Andy in WB

    November 14, 2006 at 8:08 pm

    Walt,

    I can’t answer that, this is a family website.

  82. Bob S.

    November 14, 2006 at 8:32 pm

    9-1-92,Bob Nightengale quoting Sheffield in the LA Times.You mind making my case Labatt’s Extra Stock?

  83. Chris

    November 14, 2006 at 10:13 pm

    How about trying to land Tejada at short? Probably have to give up someone like Bondo and another piece. The line up would be stacked. Just seeing what everyone thinks.

  84. Andy in WB

    November 15, 2006 at 12:12 am

    Chris,

    I’ve been hoping for Tejada also, moving Guillen to first would give the Tigers the most athletic first baseman in the league. It would also give them the most range at the corners in the league. While Guillen isn’t the power hitting first baseman they seek, that would be compensated by a power hitting shortstop who also hits for average. I think it would cost Bonderman, Thames and Infante/Santiago, but that’s what I think it would cost them to land Texiera also.
    I’m sure Leyland and Dombrowski are well prepared for the winter meetings and don’t need our help, but just in case they care, I fully endorse such a trade.

  85. Stephen

    November 16, 2006 at 6:24 pm

    That’s not how i read it.

    PADRES UPDATE;
    NOTEBOOK / BOB NIGHTENGALESHEFFIELD NOW CAUGHT BETWEEN ARTICLES ON HIS DAYS AS A BREWER

    BYLINE: By BOB NIGHTENGALE

    SECTION: Sports; Part C; Page 6; Column 1; Sports Desk

    LENGTH: 900 words

    ST. LOUIS — Padre third baseman Gary Sheffield can’t understand it. He really thought those days were long behind him once he was traded from the Milwaukee Brewers to the Padres.Sheffield feels as if Brewer fans still are trying to torment him.

    “Milwaukee fans want to get back at me and stir it up,” Sheffield said. “I don’t get it. I want Milwaukee to do well, I really do.””But then this stuff happens.”Sheffield was perturbed Monday by a column in USA Today stating the Commissioner’s office has received faxes and letters from Brewer fans asking for an investigation of possible wrongdoings by Sheffield in Milwaukee.The fans’ complaint stems from a June 11 article in The Times quoting Sheffield about his frustrations as a Brewer.”The Brewers brought out the hate in me,” Sheffield told The Times. “I was a crazy man. . . . I hated everything about the place. If the official scorer gave me an error, I didn’t think was an error, I’d say, ‘OK, here’s a real error,’ and I’d throw the next ball into the stands on purpose.’ “Brewer fans, mistakenly believing that Sheffield’s quote was an admission that he wasn’t performing up to his ability, have asked Commissioner Fay Vincent to respond.Sheffield said Monday: “What I said was out of frustration. They want to take something and run with it.”Why would a player purposely make mistakes? I’d never do anything to hurt the team. You get paid to play.”Sheffield said the only time he may have made an error purposely out of anger was when he was in the Brewer minor-league system.Still, he wonders why Brewer fans have waited almost two months to send protest letters — the same time Sheffield has been in the news for his pursuit of the triple crown.A case of frustration, perhaps?”I don’t know why they’d be frustrated,” Sheffield said, “they’re winning. I don’t understand any of this. It’s irrelevant to even talk about it.”

  86. Bob S.

    November 17, 2006 at 10:35 am

    It’s hard to argue something is ‘apocryphal’ when the subject of the supposed misconception is the source of the misconception and the only proof we have that the original story isn’t true is the same subject telling us so.

  87. Joshua M.

    November 19, 2006 at 3:59 pm

    Bob have you missed me sorry been too busy to get on here and write. Once again let me point out that I said we have all at one point in our life done one or more of those things. Here is my post that you keep referring to and saying I have no character so if anywhere in here you can point out where I said yes I did this or yes I did that then ok I apologize but obviously since its no where in here no apology for you……. Joshua M. Says:

    November 13th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
    Im just glad that since our team is now tainted with the evil Shef that its a good thing we have so many fans that are saints to offset how evil he is. I know none of us have ever cheated at anything in life, and none of us have ever been so depressed we just wanted to quit doing whatever it was and just go somewhere else and start over. On top of it all I know we fans have never just said something to piss some one else off or get attention by saying yeah I did a bad job on purpose. Well thats all I have to say no time have to go pray Shef doesnt rub off on the rest of the Tigers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hmmmm that part about saying something because you are mad doesnt go hand in hand with that article above does it??? Oh wait yup its about word for word isnt it. And now that I have read what I wrote I am even more sure of the fact that no where in there did I say I did all those things. Not saying I havent done any of them cause that would be hypocritical of me. Just saying dont point to what I wrote to justify what you wrote. If something in there led you to believe I was depressed and needed meds well thank you for your concerns about my well being. The only thing you said that has any merit was that you were the main one writing about his character, well other than the fact that the very first reply to this blog was about his character you were right I went back and read them (I research things first) and when writing on here I dont normally check the name of the person who writes them unless I have a question for them. And the fact that I read writings from Tigers fans on several different sites. I just wrote in response to all those on here and in all honesty had no intention of pointing anyone out on here. As far as the calling you a cheater and a liar part well I still stand by what I said as far as at some point in everyones life I think they have cheated at something whether that makes you a cheater or not I dont know I think it means you have cheated at least once in your life. Oh well you wont convince me I am wrong just like I wont convince you that you are wrong so this all seems pointless to me………

  88. Bob S.

    November 20, 2006 at 3:28 am

    Well,I guess I know where that case of Labatt’s disappeared to.

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