Game 2011.135: Royals at Tigers

Ignoring the last two games…

There’s a great debate brewing over Verlander’s candidacy for the AL MVP. weighed in with a yay and a nay, and Buster Olney recently wrote that JV would get his vote if he had to vote today (you’ll need insider).  One of the key contentions is that pitchers should not be considered with hitters because pitchers only pitch every 5th day.  In fact, even Ol’ Jimmy argued this a few days ago when he said “I’m not looking for arguments or controversy I just think when a guy goes out there 158 times or 155 times and has a big year, an MVP type year I don’t think the guy that goes out there 35 times should be named over that guy.”

Well, Olney responds to the every 5th day argument with a clever # of plate appearances argument.  “But here’s a number worth thinking about when considering how integral a great starter can be to success: Verlander has been involved in 830 plate appearances this year; the AL leaders, among position players, are at about 600.”  The problem with this argument is that it does not take into account the defensive value of a hitter. It would be interesting to see how many fielding plays a pitcher is involved in versus each of the other positions.

FanGraphs weighed in yesterday and argued that while JV’s core stats lead the league, his WAR is marginally ahead of Weaver and Sabathia, and thus perhaps he has not been as dominant as perceived.  Their argument is that in a year when he’s not head and shoulders above the rest of the pitchers, how can he be considered for MVP?

Perhaps the strongest argument for JV 4 MVP is his value to the Tigers.  The Tigers are 21-8 on days when he climbs the hill, and 52-53 on every other day.  You take out Granderson or Gonzalez, and the Yankees and Red Sox are most likely not any worse off record wise.

Oh yeah, Fister looks to be the new stopper tonight at CoPa.

Tonight’s Regular Lefty Lineup:

1. Austin Jackson, CF
2. Magglio Ordonez, RF
3. Delmon Young, LF
4. Miguel Cabrera, 1B
5. Victor Martinez, DH
6. Alex Avila, C
7. Jhonny Peralta, SS
8. Ryan Raburn, 2B
9. Brandon Inge, 3B

45 thoughts on “Game 2011.135: Royals at Tigers”

    1. He’s gonna bat against lefties, most likely for the rest of the season. Just Jimmy being Jimmy.

  1. This is not looking many wasted opportunities. The Tigers are going to let Chicago and Cleveland right back into this race…

  2. That was not a good play by Avila. At the last second he should have thrown over to 2B and tried to get the guy out right after the throw, and then he would have had a chance to get a double play on that ball with no risk of giving up the run as the guy getting the ball at 2B will either get an immediate tag out or throw it back to home if he can’t do it quickly enough. He made no attempt to look over there or think about it, and that’s because he isn’t coached properly to know how to be a dynamic thinker in those situations. Leyland has to teach fielding mechanics better than that.

  3. If Cabrera doesn’t launch a bomb, and the tigers don’t score, i’d bring Benoit back out for the 10th rather than Valverde… something tells me this could go on for a few more innings

  4. CLE about to beat OAK, Twinkies regained the lead over CWS 6-3… come on Betemit, haunt your old team

        1. Yeah I’m still waiting for a reply to my last question to that guy when he was rude to me from before. I guess he had nothing to follow up with that wouldn’t have dug him into a bigger hole.

        2. Not trying to cause any controversy – just giving a sarcastic response to the post above mine. I’ll try to tone it down to the PG level.

          TSE, what question are you referring to? I’ll gladly answer it for you.

          1. A question that’s back several pages, you were complaining about my not enjoying camping acting like there was something wrong with that.

            1. stephen August 25, 2011 at 12:44 am

              What would happen if TSE and Mr. X went camping??


              TSE August 25, 2011 at 2:42 am

              Then TSE would desperately search for a TV and a high-speed internet connection to plug back into the real world. Camping is for people who lived a thousand years ago, or people who enjoy camping.


              ouchudied August 25, 2011 at 9:14 am

              You even found a way to show your hate for something as natural and enjoyable as camping. Bravo, sir.


              TSE August 25, 2011 at 1:32 pm

              What? I don’t have hate for camping, i just simply don’t enjoy it. It’s not natural, it’s an artificially planned experience, and I disagree that it is an enjoyable activity, how do you figure it is? That’s the more curious question.


              I enjoy camping because I like to be outside. I like to be a part of nature, I like to be in the elements, etc.

              I think that it is nice to get away from the society that we live in every once in awhile. This is why I like it.

              If you don’t enjoy it, I am sorry to hear that. It’s not for everyone, I guess.

              1. I used to like camping in high school when I could drink myself silly and pass out. Now that I can do that at home, I don’t find much use for it. But I think that once I have kids old enough to take camping, I’ll get back into it. Though I only plan to go on nights when there is a game on. Listening to sports broadcast over the radio may be my favorite past time.

    1. Bonus points? You can’t have bonus points until you have normal points, what’s your case for him not being in arrears is the more interesting question? Plus Fister didn’t come by himself, we picked up one of the crappy David P pitchers in that same deal. How do you account for the negative of his arrival in addition to the material we gave up that hits us in the future? Are you going to come back here in each of the next 10 years and make a post about the negative points concerning the guys who don’t exist on the team that otherwise would have existed on this team had we not done this deal?

        1. What’s that supposed to mean? You totally agree, or you disagree but yet have nothing logical to say to support your argument? Either one I don’t understand what your post means or how it’s relevant as is. Yikes.

            1. My negativity? How are my questions negative? They aren’t negative or positive, they are merely inquiries seeking information, that’s neutral. And you were the one that chimed in with a childish pointless remark, that’s negative, and there’s no place for it here. Just grow up and don’t post if you don’t have something nice or constructive or relevant or logical to say. Just my advice to arrive at the cheerful atmosphere that you now call for.

              1. Too bad you didn’t have the foresight to realize that before your comment that led us here. Maybe you will learn something from this experience and not be rude to people in the future, and that’s worth something imo.

      1. I’m gonna disagree on the bonus points/normal points theory here. I think it’s safe to say that elementary school would be a good proving ground for this debate. And I don’t know a single elementary school teacher who is unwilling to give bonus points on one exam just because a student performed poorly on a previous one. In fact, I would think that most teachers enjoy giving bonus points.

        Coleman – did you enjoy giving the bonus points at 10:08pm today?

    2. I’ll give you an ‘Amen’ on that… Pauley hasn’t been too effective yet, but Fister has had HUGE starts his last two outings … both Fister and Pauley make under $450K, they’re only 27 and 28 – good timely pickups. The Tigers are paying both Porcello and Zumaya three times more than what Fister makes this year, and down the stretch, i bet they get more production out of Fister.

      Though i questioned the rationale…the same could be said about DD’s acquisition of D Young, in light of Maggs continued struggles and the Boesch injury and well, Raburn, they need a dependable OF that holds-his-own at the plate… i recall a few game winning hits already from FY… and down the stretch, every win gets even bigger.

      The Tigers are far from perfect, but they are good enough to win the AL Central, which they will, but it could be a nail-biter right up to the end of Sept. I only hope they don’t ‘have to’ start JV one of the last two games, so he won’t be able to start the opening game of the playoffs

  5. Inge had 2 hits and 1 run scored the first day back. Now two weeks later has has added 2 hits and 1 more run scored for a total of 4 hits and 2 runs……but he continues to play.

    Ramon when all is said and done…that was one BIG HIT!

  6. The Tigers remaining games: 4 w/KC, 6 w/CLE, 6 w/CWS, 4 w/OAK, 4 w/BAL and 3 w/MIN

    If the Tigers can just play .500 against CLE and CWS, its going to be very difficult for CLE or CWS to overtake the Tigers – seeing as CLE and CWS play each other 8 more times, and its not likely either will win 7 or 8 of those games.

    CLE remaining schedule: 2 w/OAK, 6 w/DET, 8 w/CWS, 3 w/TEX, 7 w/MIN, 3 w/KC and 1 w/SEA – two of the games with MIN and CWS are double headers

    CWS remaining schedule: 5 w/MIN, 6 w/DET, 7 w/KC, 3 w/TOR, 8 w/CLE

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