links for 2008-11-11

62 thoughts on “links for 2008-11-11”

  1. “I like it, not as in handing him the closer’s job, but as in adding a bullpen arm for under $4 million.”

    I don’t think more relatively cheap bullpen arms is the answer. The Tigers do need a guy they can hand the closer’s job to. I’m hoping the Tigers will unload Rodney, pursue a trade for Putz, and pursue signing Juan Cruz before they start thinking about bargains for the pen.

    I think the Mariners need what the Tigers have available to offer for Putz, and Putz’s contract terms are also a good match for the Tigers’ needs.

  2. I think Keri’s wrong, or at least careless, on several counts:

    a) Matt Joyce is not “expendable.” Tradeable, sure, but that’s not exactly the same thing. Not the same meaning at all, even if you do “expend” a player by trading him.

    b) The disappointing offense from a guy intended for most of the season to be a reserve or part-timer – Inge – isn’t terribly relevant. Aside from Cabrera after the break, no one really “led” the Tigers offense at all. Not for any significant length of time.

    c) Polanco and Ordonez, to name two, aren’t exactly butchers in the field, and Inge’s promotion – to full-time catcher – wasn’t exactly a defensive help. I’m wondering if Keri even knows that Inge was primarily a catcher in 2008.

    d) I don’t get the “Trade bait” section at all. Not exactly searching analysis. So… you need to have tradeable big stars to make good trades?

    e) “Double down by going after mega-priced free agents like CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett, or scale back costs and try to bring in younger players to augment the team’s core. Most likely, they’ll try to do a little of both.” Huh? How can anyone not know that the first thing isn’t even a possibility (according to DD), or imagine that there is some way – for the Tigers – to “do a little of both”?

    Overall, pretty shallow. I could write something similar about, say, the Los Angeles Dodgers, simply by looking up the 2008 stats and spending 10 minutes skimming headlines. I’m convinced that Keri is only posing as a Canadian. I think he really lives in the Azores and has an unreliable internet connection.

  3. Loon: I’m waiting for your cutting analysis of the Dodgers. The saga of James Loney needs to be told. I think the key stat JK mentioned is defensive efficiency. You will note that there are zero playoff teams in the bottom third of that statistic. No wait, there was one (the White Sox). The Tigers were pretty bad with the gloves which I’ve discussed ad nauseum. One would figure that Inge at 3B and a new SS will improve that metric, though. By proxy, the pitching should improve too. And I think the 2009 Tigers will score runs. Call me optimistic (or dumb), but an improvement is in the offing. Wow, that was a rambling and disjointed post, wasn’t it?

  4. I congratulate Jacoby Ellsbury for taking third place in the 2008 RoY voting on, apparently, the basis of his role in the 2007 World Series.

  5. Dave: I congratulate Edinson Volquez for garnering 3 RoY votes in spite of his not being a rookie.

  6. I am proud of Volquez for not letting his non-rookie status derail his rookie of the year campaign. His shovel was sharp, and his will was outstanding.

  7. If the Tigers aren’t going to trade for a closer, I wouldn’t mind seeing them go after Trevor Hoffman. Not at all. Show me the alarming decline there. I don’t see it. I’d rather throw $6-7 million at Hoffman than $2 million at Rogers.

  8. Loon: I’m ever the contrarian today. You want to see some Hoffman decline? How about this:

    2006 – 63.0 IP, 2.14 ERA, 189 ERA+
    2007 – 57.3 IP, 2.98 ERA, 135 ERA+
    2008 – 45.3 IP, 3.77 ERA, 101 ERA+

    Declining IP totals and escalating ERA totals are alarming for a guy who’s 41 years old. Somewhat oddly, however, he seems to pitch better away from PETCO (’07 notwithstanding)

  9. “Jonah’s a smart guy, even if he’s a Canadian”

    I have a hard time believing that anyone with such bad hair can possibly be intelligent.

  10. Loon
    I like your idea on Putz and Cruz. I believe that with those two arms alone the bullpen would sure be improved. Add in Seay, Lopez and maybe even Fien and it’s not the best pen but it’s certainly much improved.
    I know that many are BIG on Joyce but I say if that’s what Seattle demands I say pull the trigger. Our outfield depth is certainly not shallow and Clevlen is also out if ML options. Thomas,Ramirez,Wells and Kyle are also emerging. So even renting him for a season or two doesn’t seem like a bad idea. You bring up a good idea that Putz also only has a buyout of $1m after 2009. However, if he works out the Michigan Native posibly might stay in Detroit. I sure hope they don’t go for Lyon or Hoffman. Putz had (by his terms) a bad year due to injuries and still had high strike out numbers and a much better year than Lyon or Hoffman.
    Pull the trigger DD!
    Keep Larish as Brandon Cringe will soon be gone and Lariah can play Third!

  11. Chris

    “You want to see some Hoffman decline?”

    Yeah, but… but… well, obviously, the problem is that Hoffman isn’t getting enough innings. Fewer and fewer closing opportunities with those ever-lamer Padres. Clearly, the trend is MORE IP = BETTER ERA+. Give him 100 innings, and see the MLB scoreless innings streak shattered.

    No, really – look at some other numbers. Forget ERA. Look at his K/BB, WHIP, FIP, HIP, LIP, MILF, SIP, DIP, RIP – no wait, that last one is a special 2008 Tigers-only pitching stat. Anyway, the dude could throw lefty and still outdo anyone the Tigers had in 2008 or – so far – will have in 2009.

    The lack of commentary on Putz (my early favorite) until recently (thanks, JAY-RC) has me in a state of Trevormania.

    “I have a hard time believing that anyone with such bad hair can possibly be intelligent.”

    I have a hard time believing that anyone with such bad hair can possibly be Canadian.

    Dave does have a sharp shovel. Rod could use some dynamite. He’s gonna break that shovel. Actually, maybe he should use a plunger.

  12. Among the old dudes (relievers) the Tigers are supposedly looking at/talking to, I’d rank my preferences:

    Trevor Hoffman
    Darren Oliver
    Arthur Rhodes
    David Weathers

    Miguel Montero of the Diamondbacks is a possibility for catcher I hadn’t been aware of. Not worth giving up Polanco for. Raburn and change, maybe.

  13. Loon,

    Putz would be a very nice acquisition, but he may be very expensive to get. I don’t think Thames/Joyce/pitching prospect gets it done. The Mariners may want more.

    I’d love to see it too, but I wouldn’t hold your breath.

  14. Keep Larish as Brandon Cringe will soon be gone and Lariah can play Third!

    Lariah? Is that like a pariah?

    re: Putz. I think the M’s will hang on to him. Reason being I’m not sure they have a real option to fall back on at closer. Morrow was dynamite filling in for Putz, but he’ll be a starter in ’09. Thought if they could get him and Hardy as I suggested, there would be a surplus of JJ’s on the Tigers roster. That would by dyn-o-mite.

  15. Loon: I really don’t think Hoffman’s stuff would play well in the AL. We’ve already seen a closer like that at Comerica Park over the past 3 seasons. I’d rather see someone internally given a chance to pitch the 9th. Or someone picked up in an under the radar deal, much like what happened in Minnesota with Nathan or in Chicago with Jenks.

  16. Mark

    I don’t think the Mariners can afford to want too much for Putz. They’ve got holes the Tigers can fill without pain (I swear this is an entirely innocent construction, so stop it, anyone), and (Chris) I think they can turn elsewhere to replace Putz if they don’t want Rodney (and I think they would, though not necessarily as closer).

    Putz is not expensive. He’ll make $5.5MM in 2009 and can be bought out for $1MM in 2010 if necessary. If he comes through, he’ll be worth the raise in 2010, regardless of the status of the Tigers’ bevy of prospects at that time.

  17. “I really don’t think Hoffman’s stuff would play well in the AL.”

    You have a point there, Chris. But Todd Jones’s stuff played well enough in the AL for quite a while, rollercoaster and all. And Hoffman has it all over Jones even at 41, as far as I can tell. Maybe not. Maybe I’m crazy, but I’d pay $6-7MM to find out (as long as it wasn’t my money). Heck (and gosh darnit), they were thinking of paying 6.5MM for Khalil Greene. Who currently trails Hoffman in all-time saves, incidentally.

  18. Speaking of the Lariah dog, I’d rather not part with him, but… if the Mariners were after either him or Joyce, I’d make them give up Carlos Triunfel for it. My Mariners trade still involves Thames, Raburn, and Rodney. Rather hang onto Jeff and Matt for a while.

  19. Oh yeah. I missed the possibility of 2 J.J.s. That would be cool. I’d want Jacque Jones back then, too, just for the 40-man, though (DL all season).

  20. And the new Trevor as a Tiger era shall be known as the Hoffmanium.

    You know, Chris, if you and others had only hopped on board the Putz Train* (join hands) a little earlier, I wouldn’t have had to do this.

    * 70s hit by the O’JayJays

  21. FWIW, Hoffman’s career splits vs. the AL:

    64 games
    55 games finished
    38 saves
    64.1 IP
    56 hits
    27 runs, 24 earned
    10 HR (hmmm)
    71 K
    25 BB (incl. 2 IBB)
    0 HBP
    1.26 WHIP
    3.36 ERA
    3.05 FIP (not sure what this means, but I just learned how to compute it, so bully for me)

    It should be noted that Hoffman’s most frequent opponent in the AL – by far – has been the Mariners (but they weren’t always bad). Followed by the Angels, Rangers, and A’s.

  22. Chris in Dallas
    Sorry about spelling. You know I meant Jeff Larish. I Phone is a bit touchy.
    Didn’t know we were grading on spelling my friend

  23. JAY-RC, of course Chris knew you were talking about Larish. He was only kidding around, not “grading” you. Don’t be like your iPhone, now. Which you spelled wrong, by the way. 🙂

  24. How dare you Loon. I have always held your computational skills in high regard. You were up here; they were down there. Now you’re down there. (Sorry, that was a butchered Seinfeld metaphor).

  25. “You were up here; they were down there. Now you’re down there.”

    Ha ha ha. I… oh yeah! I remember it! Jerry’s explaining to Elaine how she is now George. Man. How could I have let my ex-wife run off with the complete set of Seinfeld DVDs? I’m a loser, baby. So why don’t you… bring me a closer like Hoffman or Putz.

  26. Just listen to the way Rod says “My will is outstanding” and tell me we are not dealing with a crazy person.

  27. Any time someone tells me that their will is outstanding (and it happens more often than you think), I know they’re having problems at home. It’s a cry for help. No one’s ever told me about their sharp shovel, though.

  28. I hate to break into a case of the actually’s, but the Seinfeld episode referenced was Kramer chiding Elaine for breaking their verbal agreement about giving him the bike for fixing her neck. He was telling her he might expect this behavior from George or Jerry, but not her.

  29. Matt wins the Seinfeld trivia prize for today. I’m pretty sure I butchered the exact wording of that scene. I don’t think the Tigers should sign Lyon. Lyons don’t have a history of much success in Detroit.

  30. Yeah, Chris. You butchered the wording. I was robbed.

    1979 Lyons sure don’t have much of a history of success. But they got Billy Sims for their trouble.

  31. Trades of the day: the Marlins traded their last recognizable non-Ramirez player and sent Kevin Gregg to the Cubs, and the White Sox have traded Nick Swisher to the Yankees For Some Reason.

    The first trade means that Kerry Wood will be available

  32. “The first trade means that Kerry Wood will be available”

    How? I mean, a Tiger chance at Wood would be nice, but Gregg isn’t exactly automatic, especially by comparison with Wood, and I’m not sure why Wood would all of a sudden want to leave. Wood’s on very good terms with the Cubs GM, supposedly. Or have I been taken in by your dry sense of humor, Dave?

    Somehow this became a golf post. Two 2-woods (probably a non-existent club, or?) and Tiger.

  33. wood? tigers need wood!! tigers want wood! tigers gotta have wood! What about Randy Johnson? Stopgap starter for a year ’til those young’ins is ready?

  34. Hawk
    Randy Johnson would be a good temporary fit indeed. What kind of salary do you think he will demand? Which brings me to my next question, Do you think Detroit would even be on his list of teams?

  35. I haven’t heard much about Cordero or Putz….
    Are those rumors both dead? I seem to hear more about Hoffman and Lyon than anyone.
    Anyone have any new info ?

  36. ‘It wasn’t until now that I realized Kerry’s last name could be used as a double entendre.”

    Is it coincidence that my humidifier just kicked in as I read this?

    Full name, actually. The dude literally carries wood.

    I’m starting think it might not be such a good idea to have… this guy… with the Tigers. Add in the Raburn jokes, and things could get out of hand.

    Seriously though, Dave, thanks for the early scoop on Wood.

  37. “Are those rumors both dead?”

    It’s all rumors right now, JAY-RC. I think all of them are alive and well. Certainly Cordero. The Putz rumor seems mostly alive only here, which I find strange.

  38. Well (having read the article), if Kerry Wood is after a 3-4 year deal – at any price – I guess we can put that rumor to bed right away.

    I’m still hoping the Tigers could get (C) Henry Blanco, but that seems like more of a long shot than ever now. Bard, Laird, Montero, Zaun. Seems like I’m forgetting one.

  39. Smoking Loon: “I have a hard time believing that anyone with such bad hair can possibly be Canadian.”

    Wow, some time I’ll have to tell you about this guy named Barry Melrose…

  40. You gotta be kidding, Coleman. Barry Melrose’s hair rocks. And not only because it looks almost exactly like mine. But mostly.

  41. if wood is looking for 3-4 years, then no way! One healthy year in the last 6 doesn’t get you a contract like that. I don’t know what Big Unit (oh- oh another double entendre) would demand or if Detroit would be a consideration for him. Would put butts in the seats – I would think.

  42. Chris and my fellow Defenders Of Barry:

    Who – all factors considered – are the most tradeable Tigers?

    My list (only includes guys who saw action with the Tigers in 2008):

    1. Ryan Raburn
    2. Fernando Rodney
    3. Marcus Thames
    4. Nate Robertson
    5. Joel Zumaya
    6. Carlos Guillen
    7. Aquilino Lopez
    8. Brandon Inge
    9. Jeff Larish
    10. Matt Joyce
    11. Mike Hessman
    12. Zach Miner
    13. Brent Clevlen
    14. Freddy Dolsi
    15. Clay Rapada
    16. Bobby Seay
    17. Chris Lambert
    18. Eddie Bonine
    19. Ramon Santiago
    20. Jeremy Bonderman
    21. Clete Thomas
    22. Mike Hollimon
    23. Gary Sheffield
    24. Dontrelle Willis

    Anyone missing, or who can’t (contractually) be on such a list?

    It’s funny that a rookie catcher makes the list of untouchables, but circumstances dictate that Ryan does, along with Cabrera, Granderson, Verlander, Galarraga, Ordonez, and Polanco. OK, only the first 2 of those 6 are really really untouchable, but trading any of the other 4 seems like breaking something in order to fix it.

    Anyway, making such a list isn’t easy, because a) it’s hard, and c) I’m stupid. But if I was satisfied with it, the next step would be to see which teams might logically be able to use these guys, and what those teams might have in return for the Tigers.

    A project for a rainy day would be to come up with a corresponding list of the top 24 (or whatever) trade-for-able players, again an “all things considered” deal.

  43. I’d say Gil, Grandy and Verlandy are the Elliot Ness All Stars. I’d listen on anyone else. Guys I don’t picture in Tigers uniforms next season: Marcus Thames, Nate Robertson. Otherwise, I think most everyone is back. Trading Ordonez would be retarded IMO.

  44. Chris,

    i actually almost teared up. i thought it was strange FMJ hadn’t posted in a long time…but i never thought it would have come to this. its all the crueler that i only just learned of them a few months ago.

  45. ditto on the death of FJM. a sad day indeed.

    anybody know where I can get some good sarcasm and ruthless critque of bad sports journalism?

  46. FJM mourners:

    Here’s another acronym for ya: DUI. No, wait. I mean: DIY. Really. I can think – just offhand – of at least 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 posters right here on this very weblog who are funny and literate enough to write good satire on “bad” sports journalism (there’s another kind?). Get it together. The world is thine blog-oyster.

    Wanna know what I think is funny? Of course you do. Roar of the Tigers. The illustrations alone just kill. It’s not satire, exactly. I’m not sure what it is, other than damn funny, idiosyncratic, and focused on the Tigers. In other words, perfect.

  47. Loon,

    fine, but i never liked the guy, sweet hair notwithstanding, he was always a Wings-hating Don Cherry wanna-be. always a dangerous move to go from the booth back to the bench…makes coming back a little harder if you fail.

  48. I’m only defending his hair, Dre, in my capacity as a spokesman for the Mullet Anti-Defamation League. If Melrose hated the Wings, then he was a disgrace to his hairstyle. 400 years ago, I would have had him excommulleted.

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