Game 156: Royals at Tigers

PREGAME: It will be Zach Grienke and Freddy Garcia. The two pitchers combined to allow 1 run in 12 innings their last times out. I’m going to this one, and my track record isn’t good, so I don’t have high hopes.

KCR @ DET, Tuesday, September 23, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

81 Comments

  1. Rick G

    September 23, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Good luck Billfer, maybe if Freddy can go 5 or 6 strong innings, they can sign him to a nice long term deal.

    Not sure where else to post this, but if you’re not a regular visitor to FireJoeMorgan.com, they’ve got a very funny take on the fact that the Tampa Bay chapter of the BBWAA voted Jason Bartlett MVP of the Rays this year.

  2. Jim

    September 23, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Bilfer, Curtis posted a small photo of the rookies dressed up:

    http://assets.espn.go.com/phot.....ks_300.jpg

  3. Dave BW

    September 23, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    Now guys, I’m not saying that my love for my heterosexual life-partner Zack Greinke now outweighs my loyalty to the Tigers, but these days… it really has become about 50/50. Oh, Tigers, you’ve done this to yourself.

  4. Dave BW

    September 23, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Ryan Shealy is finally living up to his potential.

    btw, why do I get the feeling that Garcia isn’t going to sign with us for next year?

  5. Dave BW

    September 23, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Third Royals hr of the game makes it 4-0 in the forth. Thank god House is on in two minutes

  6. Smoking Loon

    September 23, 2008 at 9:02 pm

    Marcus Thames has singled and walked.

    Freddy Garcia struck out 6 with only 2 walks in 5 innings.

    I’m satisfied.

    As are the Tigers, evidently.

  7. Kathy

    September 23, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    Where’s the guy who makes up the songs. “Summer in the City” by the Lovin Spoonful would be a good one for tonight.

  8. Kathy

    September 23, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    Smoking Loon is the one. He cracks me up with those songs.

  9. Chris

    September 23, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    if Leyland does not get fired for this last place finish, I will puke.

  10. Ryan

    September 23, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    Totally. Either Leyland approves of lackadaisical suckiness, or he has utterly lost this team. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a team quite this flat.

  11. Kathy

    September 23, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    What about Chuck Hernandez. Do you really want to look at him again?

  12. Kathy

    September 23, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    He did an interview on the radio right before the game and was talking about next year and how things were gonna be different. Said if you don’t do your job, you cant expect to keep it, etc., etc.

  13. Kris in SJC

    September 23, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    Pitifull…

    71 wins for each team tonight

    Kansas City paid roughly $815,000 per win
    Tigers? $1.9M per win.

    This type of relative performance typically results in forced exodus for responsible management.

    In this example, you could state that the Tigers were burnt by high risk/reward players, but the roll of management is to manage an entire risk profile. Any sap can go to Vegas and place it all on red and win once…effective managers play the spreads and manage risks to deliver consistent results.

    As much as I loved Leyland and company for bringing respectability back to the Tigers, I now cannot ignore the long view – this team has plenty of talent, but has regressed badly since that nearly-perfect October two years ago.

    While their is no way for me to discern what is going on on the clubhouse, by all appearances, this is a team that has checked out. It is no clearer than Leyland recently calling his team out (paraphrasing – we’re professionals and should act so) and getting rewarded with mail-it-in-efforts of the past two nights. You would think simply not falling behind Kansas City would be motivational enough…

    Sigh. Likely more changes and more sideways progress. After being so close…

  14. cib

    September 23, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    My last game is Friday and the only reason I am going is to say goodbye to my section-mates! THis is a nightmare.

  15. Dave BW

    September 23, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    Be prepared to puke, Chris.

    I’m going on Friday and Saturday, cib, and am less than enthused. I just keep telling myself, “remember, you’re going to have to go through SIX MONTHS of no baseball”

  16. stephen

    September 23, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    This my friends is the bottom. As cynical as I am about these kind of things, I find this kind of collapse just absolutely stunning. I mean I think Leyland is a crappy manager, but he’s a professional this has got to be killing him. And the players! There’s some really classy guys on this team. I’ve read precious little of any of these players blowing a gasket. And I don’t mean blowing a gasket just for show, but this has been a six month march to oblivion. It’s hard to believe that one of these vets hasn’t just lost it. And the locker rooms are open to the media far too much for it not to have got out if it actually happened. It would just be human nature for one of the players to just explode and have a WTF moment. But nothing. Again, a tantrum doesn’t save a season, but it displays a pulse!

    Again, it’s just stunning. There’s one thing when your team loses because Todd Jones is poorly used or your #2 starter goes down, but this obvious to outside observers lack of caring is just one of the most disheartening things I’ve seen in sports in a long, long while.

  17. Mark in Chicago

    September 24, 2008 at 12:11 am

    wow. just…. wow.

  18. rings

    September 24, 2008 at 1:35 am

    How many shutouts is that for us this year? 14?

  19. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 9:48 am

    “Breaking Bad.” Good, heartfelt post by Billfer. It should be printed off and posted in the Tigers’ clubhouse.

    I wonder what it’s like to be one of the few guys left from 2003 and see this mini-2003 (August and September) going on while surrounded by more talent than the Tigers had in 2006.

    I wonder what it’s like to be one of the rookies, to be going through a hopeful and personally important time in their careers in an atmosphere of despair. Or futility. Or whatever that atmosphere is. Indifference? Not an “I don’t care” indifference, but a “what the hell am I supposed to do?” indifference that shouldn’t be too hard to relate to for any of us.

    Failure can’t be any fun, regardless of how much money they’re making.

  20. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 10:14 am

    Kathy

    How about “Bummer In The City”? Or “Summer Has Been Shi**y”?

    Bad times, summer has been shi**y / Back of the pack split with Kansas City / Gone down, isn’t it a pity? / Needing hits or outs, then Tigers turn to Kitties

  21. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 10:19 am

    I think the worst thing that I can say about this season is that I just don’t care anymore. I’ve lived and died (mostly died) with this team for my entire life as a baseball fan, but this season (particularly this September Stinkbomb) has completely turned on the apathy switch for me. I honestly had more fun rooting for a 119 loss club with a bunch of no-name, no-talent mediocrity than this pile of horsebleep. Disappointing isn’t even the right word.

  22. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Sizzling Merganser: “Breaking Bad.” Good, heartfelt post by Billfer.” Yeah, almost too much so to spoil with comments…

  23. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 10:31 am

    I’ve got an idea. I think the remainder of the games should be sponsored by Pitney Bowes. These guys are effing mailing it in.

  24. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 10:41 am

    The odd thing is, somehow there are still players doing well individually–Cabrera and Ordonez are GAINING on players in the BA and RBI categories. Cabrera surely practices the magic arts because he RBI totals are prodigious, despite the Tigers never scoring…

    But obviously they must not be going through the motions? And they’re the heart of the lineup…and poor Inge is still diving after stuff and whatnot and still not getting anywhere, but not for lack of effort (though he almost scratched a run out of striking out yesterday, a skill which, if he could acquire it, could make him a force to reckon with).

    But then that’s more depressing isn’t it? If they ARE actually trying?…

  25. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Carbon Monoxide The Hand:

    “Yeah, almost too much so to spoil with comments…”

    Yeah, I am kinda wondering why Billfer closed off the comments on that one. Maybe he expected a bunch of cynical negativity from us to follow. Don’t know how he could have gotten that idea.

    Sizzling Merganser! Awesome. That I like.

  26. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 10:48 am

    “But then that’s more depressing isn’t it? If they ARE actually trying?…”

    Coleman, I think the prize for Most Depressing Comment is now in the bag.

  27. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 10:57 am

    The hand? I think you’ve out-obscured me…

    Sizzling Merganser could be a good band name, though not a rock band; actually, maybe a jazz trio. Or a delicious dish in a very expensive Chinese restaurant…

  28. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Well, I think offensively the guys are trying anyway. They are 4th in the league in runs scored at last check after all. The guys who stand on that elevated part of the field and throw the ball at the hitters have left much to be desired, though.

  29. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Just remember: sell the sizzle, not the merganser.

  30. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Leyland talked about the Tigers’ disappointing season before the game. “I stunk. With the year we’ve had, I stunk,” he said. “But I’ll tell you what, I’m not the (expletive deleted) Lone Ranger.”

    Not bad. Jimmy’s back in the fold, along with Gary. Now if only Edgar would only make some kind of bold or inflammatory statement, I’d welcome him back, too.

  31. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 11:01 am

    The Hand = Le Main.

  32. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Chris in Dallas: “The guys who stand on that elevated part of the field and throw the ball at the hitters have left much to be desired, though”

    The first thing I would change would be next season to have them throw at the catcher instead of the hitter. Or the catcher’s mitt I should say, I have a feeling you need to be really specific about these things.

    The other thing we can do is be more creative and persistant; even the lowly Indians have managed that. You’re mad at the other team’s hitters? Throw right at them! Still not feeling satisfied? Throw it at him again when he’s standing on first! If he steals 2nd, throw it at him again–even if you can’t get off a good throw behind you, the shortstop can slap his head with his glove–I mean try to tag him.

  33. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Oh I was figuring “mano” but same idea. (I said it was obscure, not indecipherable).

  34. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 11:07 am

    If JL were the Lone Ranger, I’d advise him to start saying his goodbyes to Tonto.

  35. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 11:09 am

    I was also Co-Le Mans winner one year

  36. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Loon Ranger: “If JL were the Lone Ranger, I’d advise him to start saying his goodbyes to Tonto.”

    Then who will do his laundry?

  37. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 11:14 am

    “(I said it was obscure, not indecipherable).”

    I underestimated you, Coleman. Sorry. Mano, or actually manus (I think) would have been better, but I’m a well-known French sympathizer.

    Chris, I’d sell the sizzle if I had any. My shtick is all smoke and loons.

    The Indians are doomed in 2009. Look what happened to the Orioles this season. You don’t tug on Sheffield’s cape.

  38. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 11:19 am

    The Lone Ranger quote belongs in the pantheon of Leyland-isms. Top 3.

  39. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 11:20 am

    “I was also Co-Le Mans winner one year”

    Doh!

    Part of Leyland’s stinking problem may have to do with an unsatisfactory laundry arrangement, so Tonto might not be missed. Either that, or Jim may just be a bit negligent as far as changing clothes, bathing, etc. are concerned. Old men forget sometimes. He might also consider switching to a pipe. Cigarettes really do make you stink.

  40. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 11:23 am

    Oolong Minks: “or actually manus”

    That’s actually close to my real name, Mannix. Time was, that name commanded respect…oh forget it, you’re all too young, and I can hardly walk now from all that rolling under the garage door stuff…

    Speaking of which I been following the Tigers since way back– even before the ’06 series!–when they didn’t win so much. And it used to be the big excitement when you saw a Tiger name in one of the league leader columns. And they are all over the Leaders now! So I’m going to go try to get excited about that now…

  41. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 11:24 am

    “The Lone Ranger quote belongs in the pantheon of Leyland-isms. Top 3.”

    Absolutely. But do you remember the others off the top of your head?

    On the basis of that quote alone, Leyland is my Detroit Tigers manager for 2009. I don’t care if he decides Granderson is a natural catcher and puts Ryan in CF – I simply can’t live without manager quotes like that.

  42. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 11:32 am

    “Don’t give me any of that weak Grilli @#!!*”

    GOTTA be top 3

  43. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 11:33 am

    Leaderboards: It seems like the Tigers have had a leaderboard shortage since forever, even when they were good. I used to scan league leaders when I got my Tigers news from a glance in the newspaper, and it actually made me feel good when a Detroit guy was in there, even during those times when I didn’t know who the hell he was. When the standings look bad, leaderboards can comfort.

    Kenny and Nate really got shafted, though. They coulda been a contender!

    Oolong Minks. That’s gonna take me a while.

  44. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Of course they never used to post “leaders” like this:

    Earned Runs Allowed:

    Bannister-KCR 117
    Robertson-DET 112
    Rogers-DET 110
    Silva-SEA 110
    Verlander-DET 106

  45. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 11:44 am

    I always liked the Leyland quote “if we’re good enough, we’ll make the playoffs. If we aren’t, we won’t”. That was from ’06. Keep it simple, I say.

  46. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Between JL and the walking quote machine that is Ozzie Guillen, the AL Central isn’t short of managerial quippage.

  47. ron

    September 24, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Rock bottom and put there by K.C. no less.

  48. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 11:56 am

    ron: “Rock bottom and put there by K.C. no less.”
    There’s a Spinal Tap song in there somewhere..

    Even worse, it doesn’t even seem like KC particularly cares…

  49. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    “Even worse, it doesn’t even seem like KC particularly cares…”

    Considering the Tigers record against the Royals, it’s probably not such a big deal to them any more. They’ve probably been thinking “We’re behind them?” since some time in August.

  50. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    Hey, at least those of you who are Lions fans have something to hang your hat on today. So there’s that.

  51. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    Oh, it’s an anagram. Doh again.

  52. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Chris in Dallas: “Between JL and the walking quote machine that is Ozzie Guillen, the AL Central isn’t short of managerial quippage”

    That makes up for the teams that don’t even have a manager, like KC. Cleveland used to have no manager but when they made the playoffs the League made them go out and get their Facilities Manager or something, that Gringeholder guy, and dress him up like a manager since the TV people would have panicked with no manager to put the camera on…

  53. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    “those of you who are Lions fans”

    How can you not be a Lions fan, Chris? Slowly but surely, Matt Millen is building that team into a force to be reckoned with. “Juggernaut” is – inevitably – the first word that pops into my head whenever I free-associate “Lions.”

    How many years has it been since I could name more than 2 (current) Lions players? More than I have fingers for, and I can’t count real good beyond that. I do remember a couple former players, Barry and Sanders, I think.

  54. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    SmoLoo: “Oh, it’s an anagram. Doh again”

    Yes, or a maranga if you prefer. I actually wasn’t trying to make an anagram, it just popped in my head (oolong? where’d that come from?), I really should have saved that one to donate to charity or for some special occasion.

  55. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    I wonder if the Tigers would ever rehire Trammell. Not for 2009, of course, but later. I wonder if Trammell would take the job.

  56. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    SmoLoo: “How can you not be a Lions fan, Chris? Slowly but surely, Matt Millen is building that team into a force to be reckoned with. “Juggernaut” is – inevitably – the first word that pops into my head whenever I free-associate “Lions.””

    Oh, that makes more sense, I always thought they were saying: “Jug? Or not?”

    But there is very little time left for the event I have been waiting for, when Marinelli and Leyland both say they are confused at exactly the same time.

    And if Bill Ford Jr were running the Tigers, which he isn’t, he would replace Leyland.

  57. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Oolong is a kind of tea, I believe. I was bending my brain trying to find some possible association with tobacco there. Minks and loons… well, the gears were, shall we say, smoking.

  58. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    “And if Bill Ford Jr were running the Tigers, which he isn’t, he would replace Leyland.’

    I read that article, and I was amused by the difference between the first statement (small group of reporters) and second (larger group of reporters).

    “I’d trade that bag of crap known as Edgar Renteria for a ham sandwich.”

    *later*

    “While I acknowledge that Mr. Renteria possess the attributes of both warmth and brownness, we can’t let that cause us to underestimate the value of wholesome and tasty foods that are at once nutritious and convenient.”

  59. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    OK, I just fired my agent so now I can do this how I want. I know it seems like a mean thing to do to Tiger fans, but we’re all saying we don’t care, etc right? So now’s the time for this. A reality show. Very simple, really, like the show where they swap families. Except we give DD a chance to fix the Lions, while Matt Millen takes the Tigers for a spin. The ratings will be phenomenal. People will tune in not knowing if they will be watching, comedy, or tragedy, or even some -dy they don’t even know about. I think we’ll need a celebrity moderator/host though…

  60. Coleman

    September 24, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    “I read that article, and I was amused by the difference between the first statement (small group of reporters) and second (larger group of reporters).”

    Yes, but then remarkably, when asked to clarify, he did a 180 from the blahblah-speak and said “”i’d replace Millen.” If he could, which he can’t. It was rather brilliant though, especially with a bye week and nothing else to talk about now for 2 weeks, WCF is gonna lock himself in one of those safe rooms I think.

    I haven’t heard any discussion of the other possible effect of Junior’s bombshell. Which is that HE could be fired by Senior, as President of Lions Vice-Presidents or whatever his title is. Which I’m guessing he might not mind if they are going to “stay the course.” It’s not like he needs it on his resume or anything.

  61. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    “Kansas City paid roughly $815,000 per win
    Tigers? $1.9M per win.”

    Speaking of which…

    Lately I’ve been considering a “what if?” What if – for example – the Tigers got paid for wins, but not losses? What if they paid out $2 mil for each win (effectively putting a $200 mil ceiling on payroll)? What would be a fair and effective way to “incentivize” it all? If $1 mil went to the pitchers and $1 mil to the hitters each win, pitchers who recorded an out dividing it evenly, and batters dividing it on the basis of runs + RBI, what would the Tigers salaries look like this season? Don’t know how to include defense – maybe any defensive miscue would mean you had to find your own transportation and lodging for the next series, and had to wear the same dirty uniform the next game.

  62. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    I like the swapping reality show idea, Coleman. Except I think it would be good if all Tigers positions were up for grabs on a day to day basis. There would be a drawing from a spinning Lucite barrel each morning, and all positions would be filled from within. Ramon Santiago might get to be pitching coach, Gary Sheffield could hold the reins of power as GM, Jim Leyland might have to catch (again), Justin Verlander could be the DH, and Magglio could get a long overdue shot as a starter.

  63. Tbone

    September 24, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    I have to say that I was very proud of the remaining Tigers fans last night who on their way out took up the “Fire Millen” chant during the Tigers Live show. It worked.

    Dombrowki and Leyland should suffer the same consequesnces given this incredible collapse. Mr. I invested in these guys and they threw it all away.

  64. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    I’d love to see Magglio as a SP. Judging by his arm strength in the outfield, Jamie Moyer would no longer hold the crown of weakest fastball in the majors. Good times.

  65. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    I think we’re all just missing the point. This team collapsed at the exact moment that the straw that stirs the drink was not tendered a contract in the offseason. The man, the myth, the legend – Neifi Perez.

  66. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Ha, Neifi Perez. There are men who lead with words, and men who lead by example. A select few transcend this, impelling a team toward greatness by sheer force of negative VORP reverse osmosis.

  67. Joel in Seattle

    September 24, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Tigers Reality Show aside, and (semi)-seriously, isn’t it about time to start Dontrelle’s Rick Ankiel conversion? He could be our 3B of the future.

  68. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Joel: Are you on the opium again? Lefty 3B? He should be a catcher. Jeez.

  69. ron

    September 24, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Can we hang tough against the Rays?

  70. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Could “we” even hang tough against the Royals? Please? One game?

  71. Amanda

    September 24, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    I’m praying with ya Loon. Why does it feel like it’s asking too much :(

  72. Amanda

    September 24, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    How about “Bummer In The City”? Or “Summer Has Been Shi**y”?

    Bad times, summer has been shi**y / Back of the pack split with Kansas City / Gone down, isn’t it a pity? / Needing hits or outs, then Tigers turn to Kitties
    <Loon posted

    I was thinking since it’s not officially summer anymore how about the song “September” by Earth, Wind, and Fire..
    ‘Do you remember.. the 21st night in September…’ errrr u fill in the rest..heh

  73. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    I just discovered this website called Fire Joe Morgan. It’s really funny. That is to say, I think much of it is meant in jest. Though I’m not sure.

    I’d “post” a “link,” (is that how you say it?), but I’m still looking at it, so right after I’m done reading, maybe you can look at it, too.

  74. Chris in Dallas

    September 24, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Loony bin: FJM is great. It’s actually written by a guy who writes for that show ‘The Office’ as well. Good stuff.

  75. Mike R

    September 24, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    I know Billfer doesn’t have comments enabled on his post about falling into last place for a reason, but, I’ll just post my comment about it here:

    I’m fine with it. As soon as we were mathematically eliminated from postseason play, wins and losses, to me, don’t mean anything to me. I’m not rooting for the Tigers to lose every game, but I’m certainly not living and dying with crushing losses.

  76. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    OK, Amanda, I’ll work on EWF’s “September.”

    Strictly speaking, summer ended only this past Monday. The Tigers had a 36-44 summer, after a 35-39 spring. They will only have 7 fall games, and will have to lose at least 2 more games to outdo (in lower win %) the “Summer Stinkbomb.” Though it’s true they were having an OK summer up until and as of September 8. Something happened that day or the next, and I aim to get to get to the bottom of it.

    OK, now I know. The goal, it became clear on September 9, was to get out of the middle of the division, get to one end or the other. The bottom was closer. Ah, elbow room on one side! If you turn the division on its side, the Tigers are actually in “left place.” Nothing inherently wrong with being leftmost or rightmost. The teams on the outside are also more noticeable – more publicity, possibly translating into more ticket and merchandise sales.

  77. jud

    September 24, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    at least we are sending Robertson to the hill to bust out of last place tonight…..hahahahahahahaha

  78. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Whoa! Millen fired? For real?

  79. Smoking Loon

    September 24, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    ‘Loony bin: FJM is great”

    Amen, Chris. It’s been a while since I laughed so hard it hurt.

  80. Dave BW

    September 24, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    Yup, Loon, 4 realz.

  81. Smoking Loon

    September 25, 2008 at 7:30 am

    “Rock bottom and put there by K.C. no less.”

    Well, at least they didn’t back into last place like they backed into the wild card in 2006. They set their sights on it and got there the hard way.

    *John Houseman voice*

    They take losses the old-fashioned way. They earn them.