Game 91: Twins at Tigers

PREGAME: If you’re a believer in momentum you have to like this series for the Tigers. The Tigers make a 6 run come back for a walk-off win and the Twins were swept by the Red Sox with an 18-5 loss to finish the series. As for my views on momentum, I’m in agreement with Jim Leyland that mo is the next day’s starter.

In Detroit’s case that would be Kenny Rogers. In Rogers last start against the Twins he struck out 6 in 6 innings, but that game is remembered as the one where the Tigers scored 6 in the first and still lost.

On the Twins side it will be Kevin Slowey. Slowey has 60 K’s against only 11 walks. Like most Twins pitchers he’s a strike throwing machine. In fact, he’s gone to a 3 ball count in only 39 of 311 plate appearances this year. Lefties hit him considerably better so I’d anticipate the all left handed outfield this afternoon.

Given Slowey’s 1.04 WHIP the hope here is that Rogers keeps them in the game long enough to get into a bruised and battered Twins bullpen.

MIN @ DET, Thursday, July 10, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

Game Time 1:05 (I have no idea why this is a day game)

POSTGAME: Some prognosticator I am. Keep it close against the starter and then beat up on the bullpen. Yeah. Not so much. This game blows for so many reasons. It’s the polar opposite of last night. One game starts out awful and ends up glorious. This one starts great and ends as a huge punch to the gut.

The story of this game comes down to a wicked combination of Not Good and Not Good Enough.

The offense managed 6 runs off a Twins starter which is a feat for them this year. But it proved not to be good enough. They managed to load the bases against Joe Nathan, but it wasn’t good enough.

Matt Joyce homered and doubled which was good. But he made a costly error and failed to lay down a bunt making his day not good enough.

Jeff Larish had 3 hits which is good. But he failed to drive in the winning run, or even put a bat on the ball meaning it wasn’t good enough.

Todd Jones was not good. Not even in the vicinity of good.

Freddy Dolsi went 2.1 innings, but he gave up the winning run to an unstoppable Justin Morneau. Not good enough.

Fernando Rodney got 3 weak ground outs. But it was after a moonshot double to that freakin Justin Morneau. Not good enough.

Marcus Thames went 3 for 4 before being yanked. He was actually good.

Granderson and Polanco each drove in a run, but combined to go 2 for 12. Not good enough.

Miguel Cabrera launched a shot to right field with runners on first and third, but it was caught at the wall. Not good enough.

Losses happen. It’s one of 162, but it certainly feels like more. The Tigers struggle to score runs against the Twins starters, and yet they managed 6. And they combined it with a volatile, yet in the end effective starting performance. This game was theirs. It was one for the win column. But they let it get away.

241 thoughts on “Game 91: Twins at Tigers”

  1. To be around in September, we need to knock down the Twins and the White Sox. A W on the front end could set the pace and with travel from the East coast let’s hope we can keep the Mo.

  2. Line-up according to espn:

    1. Grandy CF
    2. Polly 2B
    3. Guillen 3B
    4. Miggy DH
    5. Joyce RF
    6. Country Strong LF
    7. Larish 1B
    8. Pudge C
    9. Santiago! SS

  3. If true, yes yes yes to Thames, Santiago, and finally getting a look at Larish at 1B (even if he’s supposed to be no good with the glove).

    I’m more worried about getting Pudge an AB in the 5th. Starting to hit too early will throw everything off. But not hitting at all will, too. It’s a quandary, a conundrum.

  4. I’m going to assume that Slowey throws a good changeup. Otherwise his name would be Fastey, I’d imagine.

  5. I was wondering why this is a day game too. It’s the first game of a 4 game series…it’s not like it’s getaway day or something. It’s not a holiday, so I’m at a loss at this start time.

    I hate the Twins. Hopefully we can win this series and get these guys in our rearviewmirror. They really aren’t that good of a team.

  6. As with all JL lineups, what you anticipate is usually not what you will get.

    I’m thinking back to that Country Strong solo shot last July when the Tigers beat the Twins 1-0. I like him in the lineup here.

    It will be a Gameday day game for me!

  7. just got back from lunch down here, great crowd for a Thursday afternoon. If anyone is in town, “Mystery” current Detroit Tigers will be at Lefty’s Lounge in Midtown after the game.

  8. I was in a coma the last two weeks. What did I miss? Still 7 games back? Ugh. We’ve won too many games for that.

    Great tag by Punto.

  9. So Guillen is a gold glover now? I feel like Marty McFly when he travelled into the future and found out Biff was married to his mother. How did that develop??

  10. How many games have we won in which we led the entire game? I would be interested to know. I doubt it’s more than 15.

  11. I know good teams can come back. But out of 46 wins, we have scored first and maintained a lead only 13 times. I suspect teams at the top of their division have one alot more or those type of wins.

  12. I like this line-up for the Tigers. These boys from Toledo have been great. JL is a freaking genius.

  13. “Matt Joyce now needs some sort of cat related nickname. Suggestions?”

    Catt Joyce?

  14. Keep piling on boys…

    Before you know it, we’re going to be bringing up Muddy and Muddonna!

  15. he are we all pulling for Santiago or what …sure could take care of that SS problem…….GO Ramon….you go guy!!!!

  16. Wow it’s kinda early for them to be drinking already, even if they are getting their butts beat…and out in the bullpen too where kids can see them, FOR SHAME.

  17. LJ is a baseball savant. He’s done an amazing job to help turn this season around.

  18. do these count in the standings for a win for Toledo also seeing that most of them are here…go Tigers/Mud Hens

  19. Sweet throw to 3rd by Pudge, but where was the tag?? I love it but looks like a bad call to me.

  20. I’d love to have someone take a look at whether “running on contact” from 3rd makes sense statistically. Sure seems like guys get thrown out more than they make it home.

    But we’ll take it.

  21. It might not have been going over the fence, but he was robbed of an “into-the-glove-outfielder-runs-into-the-wall-glove, and ball-go-over-the-fencer”

    So we all figured the glory days of the Santiago of Swat were over after his injury and rehab, during which he hit like…well, like a Santiago I guess.

    Then he comes up and picks up where he left off. And then I see Catt “Ted Williams” Joyce hit and I’m thinking, those Mudhens must face some damn good pitching down there cause it sure looks a lot easier up here…+

  22. Not sure where the idea Larish doesn’t have a good glove at first came from, but I’ve seen him make some pretty slick plays over there for the Hens. Both in person and on TV.

    Gotta stick up for the Hens.

  23. hey Marcus stick to hitting those home runs…a base stealer you ain’t…looked like a hit and run to me anyway…even though Larish didn’t go

  24. Miggy may not have been robbed of a home run or an into-the-glove-outfielder-runs-into-the-wall-glove and ball-go-over-the-fencer, but he was robbed of a Twix and a PayDay, which were reported missing from his locker this morning. The Voodoo doll of Brandon Inge with a pin stuck in its oblique remained untouched.

  25. It’s unfortunate Zumaya has already claimed “Voodoo Child” for his entrance music. That’s tailor made for Gil of the Undead.

  26. Strong outing from Kenny. I will ask again nice for a little Roller Coaster-proof insurance…

  27. Jeff Larish does not want to go back to Toledo!

    I think today is a day game b/c of a XMASS in July and Senior Day Promotion

  28. I don’t know who this Fernando Rodney character is, but he’s no Fernando Rodney.

  29. “Sweeping the Twins means nothing if the White Sox keep winning.”

    No it means everything. Tigers will have to keep winning no matter what.

  30. Okay I’m fine with allowing that run. Now they have three outs going into the bottom of their order and we’ve still got (at least) a 2 run lead. I’m confident we’re gonna win.

  31. “Sweeping the Twins means nothing if the White Sox keep winning.”

    It means a lot to the Twins

  32. your basic 22 pitch inning….and a lot of the pitches were inside the area code for Detroit

  33. RE: Why should I care about the Twins?

    B/C they are one of the 2 teams between the Tigers and a playoff spot

  34. Let’s not forget all about the wild card there kiddies. With Boston idle today, the Tigers will pull to 6.5 games back with a win.

  35. Do you think that it is Dennys Reyes instead of Denny because he is so fat that he warrants a plural name?

  36. Good thought, Tony. It also could be attributed to the fact that he spends the entire offseason at Dennys.

  37. 4.1 innings of shut out ball from a tired Twins pen is pretty impressive. I was really hoping we could have banged them around better.

  38. DENARD FREAKING SPAN?

    I thought Jones would enjoy an actual save situation. He must think Guillen can bail him out from 3B again.

  39. This is completely believable and predictable. TJ has been struggling and the Tigers went into offensive sleep mode.

  40. Cabrera’s up next inning… do you think they go to Nathan if the game’s still tied?

  41. TJ is completely incompetent as a closer. Even with the previous record this year, he has repeatedly made wide leads close. This 9th inning was so predictable I told my wife exactly what was going to happen. Why can an amateur like me see this and Leyland can’t realize that Jones has become a batting practice pitcher!

  42. Sky:

    There are much better pitchers in the league who have more blown saves than Jonesy this year. You’re right, but I’m just sayin’…

  43. Note to anyone trying to see that Joyce’s error was the problem……..there is only one out after 4 batters, and that out was only due to outstanding fielding off of a classic Mauer opposite field fly…….the runs would have scored regardless.

  44. Like it or not, TJ is our closer. He has some good streaks and some bad streaks. He’s on one of the latter right now. He was banged around last night as well and is probably gassed.

    Can Seay find the answer to Morneau?

  45. we live with the fact that Jones usually barely gets the job done…unfortunately that “usually barely” is a fine line

  46. No. Don’t let Craig Monroe be the hero here.

    At least not for the Twins. It’ fine if he’s the hero for the Tigers.

  47. Were those pitches as far outside as Gameday shows? I think Jones could have managed an intentional walk…

  48. Maybe I have the wrong idea, but I expect a closer to throw hard enough and with enough control to mow the opposition down for one inning. Jones method is to close by pitching to contact. The result is that he closes with luck,,,i.e.,that the ball that is hit goes to a fielder who can put the batter out.

  49. Tigers…please don’t make the rest of the night painful for us bloggers and put Catt Joyce into suicide watch.

  50. I’m not sure if he threw Larish or Pudge any more stikes than he did on the batters he walked …they just swung

  51. After watching the bottom of the 9th I think the Tigers really deserve to lose. I am hopping angry about that totally incompetent series of wasted swings, failed bunt attempts, the whole works. The Twins are trying to give it away and the Tigers don’t want the damn thing!

  52. Has Pudge always looked like the hyper-active kid from little league who always falls for the hey-batter-batter-swing chant, or is this just a development in his Tigers years?

  53. Just step in to see the score. Looks like our bullpen is the one that has been shaking, and the Twins bullpen has been strong. Can we give Jones the rest of the week off? How about this for a schedule, use only as needed.
    Zoom – 9th
    Solid – 8th
    Lopez – 7th
    Sort out the rest.

  54. I’m just wondering is any pitcher has ever thought it necessary to throw Pudge a strike…

  55. Ken, the pitcher seems to know he can get those strike outs in critical moments by throwing high hard ones outside the zone because undisciplined that they are, the hitters go for them. I don’t really blame the rookie who has little experience….but Pudge should know that is what the guy is going to do to him.

  56. so the result is the same…but santiago is the anti-pudge…six pitches = one swing ๐Ÿ™‚

  57. I hate the Twins. They’re really going to do this to us?

    Our only 1-2-3 inning was the first. Maybe that’s a good omen for the next few innings.

  58. Sexy Dolsi grooves one to the most dangerous hitter on the team.

    VERY STUPID STUPID STUPID PITCH!!

  59. If the Twins relievers were dumb enough to throw a pitch like that to Cabrera or Guillen or Thames, or whoever, we’d get one too.

  60. Glad I didn’t go to this one. What a letdown.

    Same thing that happened last time Rogers pitched against the Twins. Spot him six runs and then stop scoring.

    And then lose.

  61. I’m in favor of letting Joel take over the closers role immediately. Jones gets saves like a blind squirrel finding a nut. Joel should be able to equal that or, one would assume, do far better.

  62. Sean, maybe it was exciting to you. I was so angered by it I can’t see straight. Extremely frustrating down to the last pitch of teh game……WHO THE HELL TAKES A CALLED THIRD STRIKE TO END A GAME?

    I admit it.I am really pissed……and I am out of here…..

  63. Why do we suck against the Twins???? I hate the Twins so freakin’ much!!!!! Freakin’ Todd Jones is all to blame for this one. It’s time for that old guy to retire….Unfortunately, I see us getting swept by the Twins….

  64. Is Clete’s defense really THAT much better than Thames? No. I’ve seen Thames make plenty of great plays. Hell, he’s only had 1 error that I’ve witnessed, and I’ve seen a crapload of games. Is Thames offense THAT much better than Clete’s? Yes. Same average and a dumptruck’s worth more of power. Hmmm….who do we want up in the later innings? The Dr. of Strong Country Funk or Fievel. Hmmm..
    Big Granddaddy Blast or little Timmy from down the street. Hmmm….. Hmmm…. I’m pissy pants pissed right now.

  65. Another win thrown (or bobbled) away. Some good play, but also some horrible failings by the bullpen and the offense. I also have two questions about managerial decisions:

    1. Why was Country Thunderfoot trying to steal third? —again.
    2. Why was Cabrerra pinch run for when his run didn’t mean anything at the time? He was the DH today and it’s not like he was being replaced for defensive purposes.

  66. I’m sure glad I DVR’d this game. I gotta go the gym and work out some frustration. I can’t stand Jones coming in anymore. I would rather lose with 100 mph fastballs than junk that you hope gets hit to somebody. Hopefully tomorrow turns out better.

  67. Hey, Sky (even though you’re gone), I can afford to call the game exciting because I’m at work and didn’t have to waste any of my free time on a game the Tigers COMPLETELY blew. You’d better believe I’d be incensed otherwise.

  68. Please for the love of Yah-Weh, keep Fernando Rodney the hell away from late inning situations. I realize Jonesy was awful, too and the Joyce error didn’t help, but Fernando Rodney is worthless!

  69. I think it was Matt Joyce’s error that lost the game.

    Otherwise there’s two guys on first and second with no outs instead of a run in and a guy on third with no outs.

    Catt hit a home run, but lost us the game.

  70. Who was it that posted last series how the Tigers really have Justin Morneau’s number? That sounds rather foolish at press time.

  71. Joyce’s error did not lose us the game. It was the bull pen. Jones has been crappy lately, and if any errors were made in a lot of those games, we would have lost.

    Rodney still isn’t at top form. It may be time to give that closer role to Zumaya, or look at a trade.

  72. For some reason getting beat by the twinkies is even more annoying since I moved to Minneapolis.

  73. Let’s just call it a team effort (from the top on down), and leave it at that. Tomorrow will be another adventure.

  74. Do you guys think that it is time to start looking at someone else for the closer’s role?

    The numbers are terrible, and they have been the entire season. Problem is, I don’t think that Zumaya is ready. I’d like to see a closer by committee, or else put Lopez in the role. Any other thoughts?

  75. No one has mentioned Leyland’s decision to pinch-run for Miggie in the 9th when his run was completely inconsequential, thereby forcing Rayburn to hit in the 11th when the lineup turned over. Stupid also. But on the list of reasons why we lost today, it probably comes in somewhere after the top 5.

  76. It all comes down the same failure – the belief that Todd Jones should still be pitching in the majors. He was barely adequate in 06, inadequate last year, and the principal reason the Tigers won’t make the playoffs this year. Why they didn’t realize that they needed a new closer is really beyond me.

  77. Geez. It seems like every fan melts down every time the Tigers lose. Get over it. The Tigers have won 22 of the last 32 games which is amazing.

  78. I’ll cover more when I get the kids to bed and can write up the postgame, but addressing the Miggy pinch running issue: It was because Joyce was supposed to lay down a bunt. Cabrera’s run was inconsequential but Leyland didn’t want the forceout at second base which would still leave the double play situation.

    Although you could surmise that even if the bunt had been successful, Thomas gets walked and it’s still the same situation for Larish.

  79. Jones will not be the reason we don’t reach the postseason. It was the end of June and he was at about 16 save opportunities. You can blame 1 loss on Jones at this point. He blew another one but was bailed out by Cabrera.

  80. Designate Jones for assignment. He’s been getting pounded recently, and it doesn’t look like he’s improving.

    F*** what a let down

  81. This game blew. I still have a pit in my stomach. When the Tigers flat out lose, or get outplayed, you deal with it. But when they gift-wrap games and give them to the other team, it’s much harder to swallow. I thought the team was beyond this kind of loss.

    The MJ error was most unfortunate. Errors do happen, so in some sense you move on from them — even when they cost you the game. The MJ lack-of-execution in the bottom of the inning and ensuing Larrish/Pudge Ks even more unfortunate. The Tigers needed to slam the door shut right then and there, if there was any hope left of salvaging the game. They didn’t. And there is no reason they shouldn’t have. For the love of sweet Petunia, a suicide squeeze could have won the game.

    If you must finger a fall guy, you can probably pin this loss on Matt Joyce. At the end of the day, though, these are really only AAA players. They’re not always going to shine in pressure situations. So I ask, where is Sheffield? Why was he not playing today? Why pinch run for Cabrera when he’s not even the winning run? What? I’m all for playing the Mud Hens. But if you’re going to hold on and win some high-profile games, you also need to balance your rookies with veteran experience. The Tigers should not have lost this game.

    All said, I’m more concerned about Todd Jones. The Tigers should not have been in the pressure cooker in the first place. I know there are some who continually come to his defense and point out he consistently gets the job done, even though every outing is train wreak waiting to happen. Not even his defenders can deny that. I tend to think his favorable save record is more based on fortune and luck and will regress to the mean of a mediocre, pitch-to-contact pitcher. That’s a problem for the Tigers. Yes, he’s only had a few blown saves, but he’s continually in a situation where one pitch this way, or one ball that way, and the game is toast. Almost every time. Of all his saves, I recall two or three stress-free saves. That’s not a lot.

    This will not be the last time the game implodes in the ninth inning. The race will likely tighten in the coming weeks — provided the Tigers don’t fold on account of demoralizing losses like today — and we are going to find ourselves relying more and more on our closer to keep us in the hunt. The Indians went through the same thing with Borowski. I honestly wish I could say you just need to chalk the Jones blowup today as an anomoly (which is what you do when Papelbon or Nathan or K-Rod or Jenks blow a save), but methinks it’s more the norm and an omen of bad things to come.

  82. Regardless of the possible force at second (assuming Joyce does his job and lays down the bunt), I still don’t pull Miggy out of the game. Let him saunter into second for all we care. The runner at third is all that matters. Billfer’s right on the second point. Man on third with one out = automatic walk of the next batter anyway (if first base is open). I don’t think it was the right move to pinch run Miguel Cabrera.

  83. So I wasn’t planning to go to the game today but my manager came by this morning and handed me a Comerica Bank seat about 8 rows behind home plate in sec 126. So it was a work assignment. Fun for a while but WTF Rodney. Can’t blame it on Jones, I’m with Billfer, if everyone had Jones’s percentages this year we’d be doing much better. Back at it tomorrow!! Time to put a bit of aloe on this sunburn.

  84. Geez. It seems like every fan melts down every time the Tigers lose. Get over it. The Tigers have won 22 of the last 32 games which is amazing.

    Unfortunately, Chief, “amazing” might not be enough. If they continue at that “amazing” clip, they will close out at 92 wins, which may or may not be enough to win the Central — likely not enough to win a wild card spot. At any rate, I say all you can hope for is to lose the games you’re supposed to lose and win the games you’re supposed to win. Win a few that you’re supposed to lose, but never and I mean never lose the games you’re supposed to win. That’s the Cardinal Sin the Tigers committed today.

    If we were in the position of the Red Sox, or the Rays, or even the White Sox, you chalk up the loss. But we’re not. Can’t rage against the machine. It’s simply the corner into which the Tigers have painted themselves with such a horrific start out of the gate.

    I for one believe it’s a bit challenging to ask the Tigers to win at a .6875 clip for the remainder of the season. It’s a bit over-achieving, wouldn’t you say? Especially when they give games away like they did today. But I firmly believe if you win the games you’re supposed to win and take a few you’re supposed to lose (like last night) you can come pretty close to making it a race. It’s when you violate the mantra when you upset the sprint to the finish line.

    Don’t misunderstand me. I think the Tigers have a fair chance at playing in October. Except when I see them lose games like they did today. And that’s why the fans are up in arms. And they have every reason.

  85. Oh, does anyone see Dolsi as the potential future closer? Just asking to get us out of the doldrums and into a discussion.

    Going out for coffee now; talk amongst yourselves!!

    cib

  86. cib:

    Yes. That was his roll in the minors.

    He would blow a few — just like Jones — but I don’t think he would have blown the 2 run lead today. Make of that what you will.

  87. cib – from what I’ve seen of Dolsi, he has the ability and the mental makeup (which I think is more important) to be a solid closer. Maybe not great, but pretty darn good. He doesn’t look afraid to throw pitches across the plate when he needs to. We’ll see how he develops, but right now I like him much better than Rodney and Zumaya.

  88. Smith- Baseball isn’t like that though. The season is so freaking long to where you don’t know where the WhiteSox, RedSox, Tampa, or Anaheim will be at the end of this season. Any or all of these teams can do a choke job like how the Tigers and Mets did last year.

    Right now, if the Tigers had the best record in all of baseball should that matter? It shouldn’t.

    On July 21st last year, the Tigers did have the best record in all of baseball and that didn’t matter one bit. The Win-Loss record of every team right now means nothing. It ain’t over until it’s clinched.

    There are no dominant teams this year. There ain’t any legit .600 teams either, unless you count on the Cubs or Rays to keep up there current pace.

    The Tigers were in the position to win this game a few times, but they didn’t. That’s just the way the ball rolls. We’ll surely get a cheap win back to even things out.

  89. Chief,

    Even if there are no dominant teams, wouldn’t you agree it’s gonna take at least 92 wins to take the Central? (or make the playoffs?). One, maybe two teams will choke — but the top two standing sure as hell won’t be at 81-81 — or even 90-72…. I assure you.

    I agree the White Sox are over achieving right now — everything is going their way — but 92 wins is kinda factoring in that they, or the Red Sox, or the Angels, or Yankees — or whoever — aren’t the powerhouse, or “dominant” team you’re talking about. However, the White Sox need only play just a tad over .500 ball here on out (I do think they are at least .500 club — no matter how bad theymight slump down the line) to get to 92 wins, (and that pace is a huge limb to go out on given the way they’ve played the past six weeks) whereas the Tigers have to play .678 just to catch up. It’s all in the math… kinda hard to skirt this issue, regardless if we’re running against a slew of medicore clubs that may be prone to tank. I think the Tigers are an inherent .600 team — which means, in my estimation, the Tigers have to over-achieve to cross the finish line ahead of the others, or to secure a wild card spot. When you tell a team they more or less must win 7 of every 10 games for the rest of the year, you get kinda miserly about the 30% you’re allowed to dump. This wasn’t one of them.

    You’re right, of course, cheap wins will come around to even things out. But those are the ones you’re supposed to tack on to your .600 average.

    All the teams ahead of the Tigers aren’t gonna fold, like the Met and Tigers of 07. One or two, maybe. But all, no. There are only a couple playoff spots. You gotta win these kind of games if you want to be one of the final teams standing.

  90. I had to leave when James missed the bunts. Literally made me sick and then they had the bases loaded and couldn’t get a run in? My son and I went to Meijer’s to buy an Old English D flag for his yard. I told him we might as well go cause the Twins were gonna win. This one hurt!

  91. I will be a huge Rangers fan the next 2 weeks. They play the black sox then after the all-star break the twinkies, and then the sox again. Go Rangers.

  92. The WhiteSox only won 72 games last year. That should speak volumes of what they are made of. They could easily play less than .500 ball for the rest of this season.

    There pitching is probably on it’s way to hell.
    Linebrink and Thornton will even out. Jenks is on the DL. This Chicago team is much more fragile than a carton of eggs.

  93. Boone Logan had a 4.97 era last season. It was under 2 before he crapped the bed Tonight. Dotel stunk Today too. The way the White Sox lost Today wasn’t any prettier than the way the Tigers lost.

  94. Get over it, I don’t think so. What kind of chill pills are you taking? Are you into Kaballah? This loss was devastating. The team should be making a statement to the Twinkies to get out of our way, we’re coming thru. Instead, we hand them the vaseline and tell them we have been playing real good lately, but for you, we’re going to do something special.

  95. I’ve come to the conclusion that I can take losses better when I’m not visiting this website. I tend to fall into line with the masses that are posting here during games. Had I been here this afternoon, i’d be feeling that “punch to the gut,” however, I wasn’t. And I saw the game live and when it was over and went “boy, that sucked” and haven’t given it a second thought. I don’t feel that bad about this loss even though I probably should.

  96. Devastating? If that’s the way you think, then you’re sunk for sure.

    I live a competitive life style, and loses are just loses. The difference between the winners and losers over the long haul is that winners don’t let the bad beats devastate them. The best thing to do when you lose is to get back on the horse, hold your head up, and have fun. Eventually you start winning again and you end up burying the losers into the ground because they don’t know how to handle losing. When losers lose they get complacent, and then it’s over for them.

    The Tigers aren’t losers. They’ve proven that by bouncing back time and time again this season.

  97. Chief>The Tigers arenโ€™t losers. Theyโ€™ve proven that by bouncing back time and time again this season.

    Right now they are only one game over losers

    81-81! on Oct 5 .will that be winners or losers or tiers

  98. Jones has an ERA of nearly 5.00, a whip of 1.53.

    I’d like to see some stats on what his lead is compared to other closers, but my suspicion is that he’s only blown one game because he’s generally come in with larger leads than other closers.

    With numbers like this, I can’t imagine that the Tigers won’t have a closer at the top of their must haves for next season.

    Looking at the #s, its of course possible for the Tigers to come back. Just look at the lead they lost in 2006. I just don’t have a sense that they are going to do it this year, not that I don’t want them to of course.

  99. This was only the first or second game I’ve had to miss watching all year, and it doesn’t look like I have anything to regret

  100. Chief —

    Your attitude is clearly unhealthy. You should be hoping that opposing players “choke on [their] dinner” ๐Ÿ™‚

  101. Woah. Woah. The big story of the day has to be that Curtis Granderson shops at Somerset. I’m there on a somewhat regular basis, and I’ve been known to wander over on my lunch break. Bumping into Curtis would make up for ten losses of yesterday’s sort. I doubt most of the Somerset crowd even knows who he is, so getting a moment to say hello would probably be reasonable. I’d simply shake his hand and beg him to sign a fifteen year extension — then follow him around at a comfortable, non-stalker distance. ๐Ÿ˜›

  102. Iโ€™ve come to the conclusion that I can take losses better when Iโ€™m not visiting this website.

    I’m not surprised, Mike. I think that’s because you tend to take the team in stride and just enjoy the game. 100 wins or 100 loses — these are just stats, afterall. But your breed is few and far inbetween. On this site there will always be over reacting (Cabrera will be out of baseball in three years) and under reacting — good analysis and questionable analysis — but it all evens out to a cold splash of truth when you wade through it.

    And the truth hurts. I don’t think the vast majority of posters are too cynical and over reactionary over losing just for the sake of losing. Some losses are just harder to deal with than others.

  103. It’s not like the MLB landscape is littered with bona fide closers, and the ones that are out there are locked into quality teams that don’t want to let them go…

    Next year, Zumaya will be the TIgers’ closer. I think Dolsi and Lopez or Cruceta will set him up.

    I think Zumaya will be perfect for it, if he continues to show he can shake off his mistakes. He has looked sharp and getting sharper since returning. He’s clearly a far more serious major-leaguer than the “kid” who dazzled us in 2006. But he hasn’t lost his stuff, which was my great fear. Remember Matt Anderson? When he could only throw 95, he weren’t nothin’ special. 90% of Zumaya wasn’t going to be enough. We got 97% of the old Zoom back, and that should be plenty. And who knows — he may still find 103 again!

  104. Jones has an ERA of nearly 5.00, a whip of 1.53.

    And he seems to be getting worse as the season progresses. His WHIP by month:

    March: 0.00 (only one appearance)
    April: 1.30
    May: 1.63
    June: 1.69
    July: 2.40

    I agree with Bilfer that Jones won’t be the reason the Tigers don’t make the playoffs. But he could well be a reason they don’t.

  105. Jones is really not a good closer from a pure ability standpoint. He is from a mental toughness standpoint. But for the most part, it is pure luck that he hasn’t blown at least six saves this year. I really do hope the luck continues or that the Tigers are willing and able to stick Zumaya in there as soon as it appears that it isn’t working any more with Jones.

    Anyway, we’ve got to transition Zumaya for the closer next year. Why not commit to that sooner?

  106. Why don’t you transition Zumaya to closer now, you ask? Because he’s allowing 2 baserunners per inning, that’s why.

  107. Why on earth does Leyland keep putting Rodney in there? His ERA is atrocious, and he has proven time and again that he can lose a game that’s seemingly in the bag. Don’t get me started on Todd Jones. Leyland didn’t even mention their horrible perfprmances when he spoke to the media after the game. He always seems to love and defend the worst players. Remember Nevi (“Pop Out) Perez? I used to be a huge fan of Leyland’s, but it wasn’t Rodney or Jones who blew it yesterday. It was the skipper. Again.

  108. Chief ,yes Devastating spelled with a capital D. I’m glad you live in that competitive world and can look at the big picture and put a positive spin on losses.. We need people like you to balance the negativity.

  109. Mike R joins Chief at Happy Camp. You know Mike, you haven’t been the same since you got that new computer. Be happy, get back on the horse, Chief would have told Superman. I prefer Kramden’s ” pins and needles, needles and pins; it’s a happy man that grins.

  110. zumuya closer next year…and i’d be fine with perry in 8th inning…if anyone watched him on ESPN, he pitched 4 innings throwing everything 95-98mph…this is of course if they don’t want him to start which i think he could :)…thoughts??

  111. I just feel like on the Internets in general, you need to be bipolar to keep up. When the Tigers won in late inning fashion two days ago all the media was overly positive, talking about the pennant race and how the division was for the taking.
    Then the next day they lose a game that albeit, they should’ve won, and now it’s a sinking feeling and they’re losers and it’s time to give up?
    sheesh, I can’t keep up.

  112. T Smith,
    Thanks for the link. Mr. Lawrence went three for three in that article.

    Although the Tigers looked good on paper at the beginning of ST, the fact is that it is a really poorly constructed unit. With all the high quality players they just don’t fit together well – many of holes on defense (literally), the bullpen has obvious glaring weaknesses and as far as the offense goes…well where do I begin: too slow to steal or aggressively run the bases, which means they don’t put any pressure on the defense and are consequently condemned to a one-dimensional station to station strategy (compare to the Twins who have one power hitter but ran rings around the Tigers yesterday), a few too many DHs and so on. Then there is the manager. Leyland has an encyclopaedic knowledge of strategies that one should NOT employ. We know this to be true because he constantly repeats them. Managers, like the players, are not perfect and make mistakes, but one would expect over the course of a season an average manager’s critical decisions would be pretty much of a wash, and indeed, the quality of play on the field (let’s call that tactics) by the players decides 90% of games. In the 10% of games that are decided by strategic choices the manager bears the brunt of the responsibility. Leyland is horrendous. I think he loses 10 more games than wins a year. And if he isn’t getting any worse (I think he is), he certainly isn’t getting any better; making the same dumb mistakes over and over again. Even if the Tigers were to improve on their above mentioned ‘tactical’ qualities, I just don’t have the faith that they can succeed with JL at the helm.

    91 games into this season and it looks more and more like a train wreck. I still hope they can come around, but a 77-85 finish really wouldn’t surprise me at this point.

  113. I think managing is thoroughly overrated. A “good” manager can win maybe 3 or 4 games per season than an “average” manager. The Tigers will be fine. Their defense is middle of the pack (13th in defensive efficiency) and the offense, while inconsistent, is still 4th in the league in runs scored. The starting pitching has been much better after the first 6 weeks or so (ERA by month – 5.46, 4.67, 3.46, 4.42) and the relief corps has been at least serviceable for the most part (4.31 overall ERA). With Cabrera (.383/.408/.745 over the last 2 wks) and Grandy ( .364/.426/.527) heating up and Maggs on the way back, the offense should be able to score more runs than the pitching gives up on most nights. Generally when you do that, wins are a result. It’s not a perfect team, but neither is anyone else.

  114. The Tigers can lose 25 more games like they did yesterday and still make the play-offs.

    71 more games left to play. 46 wins will put us 22 games over .500 and about 10 games above the choking White Sox.

    On Monday, everyone said that the Tigers just need to win 4 of the next 6 home games. Well, we’ve won 2 out of 3 so far and it’s seems everyone is devastated because of one lousy game. I’m ready to watch the game Today.

    Today’s game doesn’t even mean much, but I’m sure everyone thinks it’s the last game of the season if the Tigers lose.

  115. Also,
    It seems like when the Tigers win a bunch of games in a row I hear people say “Don’t get too excited”. Then if the Tigers lose 1 game after winning several in a row, then these same people get bent all out of shape like the season is over. Come on people, it’s just one game.

    I have lots of fun when we win, and have less fun when we lose. Everyday the Tigers play is a good day for me. I look forward to watching them play every game. To me, the anticipation for every Tiger game makes me feel like a kid on Christmas Morning.

    When the Tigers win, it’s like I just unwrapped a big toy truck, but if the Tigers lose it’s like getting a pair of socks. I win either way because I just got to watch the Tigers play a game of baseball.

    A summer without Tiger baseball or a year without Christmas, now that would be devastating.

  116. All right Chief, you’ve convinced me. I just flushed my pills down the toilet and signed up for a Yoga class. As that guy from Illinois would say, serenity now, serenity now…..I’m getting verrry tired, veeerryyy ..tir…………ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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