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PREGAME: I know this is a Tigers blog and all. And I usually try to stay pretty much on topic. But there’s kind of a big hockey game tonight. And I figure many people who frequent here are Detroit sports fans. So GO WINGS! And along with Ian, in the interest of blogger solidarity, a shout out to the Red Wing blogging brethern:
As for our little baseball game, it will be Kenny Rogers and his crazy Oakland splits against Rich Harden. Harden strikes out oodles of people, but he’s already made 6 starts this year making any pitch a potential season-ender at this point.
UPDATE: Carlos Guillen is back at third. Brandon Inge tweaked his oblique on a check swing and is day-to-day.
1. Granderson, CF
2. Polanco, 2B
3. Guillen, 3B
4. Ordonez, RF
5. Cabrera, 1B
6. Larish, DH
7. Renteria, SS
8. Thomas, LF
9. Rodriguez, C
DET @ OAK, Monday, June 2, 2008 Game Preview - Baseball-Reference.com
Game Time 10:10
POSTGAME: I guess you can say that if you have 3 walk-off decisions on a road trip, at least your competitive. Too bad the Tigers need to be better than competitive and start notching some W’s with regularity.
I can’t get too upset with the offense in this one. Rich Harden is good. Rich Harden was on his game. But the Tigers did manage to bust up a shut out and scratch across a couple of runs. They made a guy throwing mostly strikes work to the tune of 4.3 pitches per PA running his pitch count to 115 in the 7th. They got a clutch hit from rookie Jeff Larish to take advantage of a rare scoring opportunity.
Rogers struggled a little early on, but limited a first inning bases loaded situation to 1 run. He pitched out of a few jams as things went on, but still gave the team 7+ innings.
But oh that bullpen. Bobby Seay walked the .163 hitting Travis Buck to load the bases and fell behind Deric Barton 3-0 before escaping the 8th inning. And then Francisco Cruceta happened to the 9th inning. Again he takes the loss. Again.
{ 207 comments… read them below or add one }
Go Wings! [Go Tigers!]
Meh. I’m still watching the Tigers.
Tonight’s lineup is brought to you by Crazy Skip, Inc. makers of the new hit game everyone is talking about: “Who’s In Left?” Winners of tonight’s contest receive a free single-service pack of Splenda from Leo’s Coney Island. Go ahead, place your bets….
Granderson, CF
Polanco, 2B
Guillen, 3B
Ordonez, RF
Cabrera, 1B
Larish, DH
Renteria, SS
????????, LF
Rodriguez, C
Funny, Tbone. I hate to pick apart a joke, but I need to know what Splenda is.
“I know this is a Tigers blog and all.”
I posted something a while back that I was afraid might be misunderstood. Just in case it was, I want to say that I’m a Detroit sports fan and don’t have a problem with any Detroit sports talk. Or any sports talk. Or any talk at all, really, except for utterly contrived, manipulative, axe-grinding soapbox stuff. That’s all I was trying to say with my little “shouldn’t we be talking about the Tigers?” thing.
I like freedom of expression, and usually consider complaining about anything here akin to calling the FCC to complain about a TV or radio program instead of simply changing the channel or turning it off.
Go Penguins! (hehe)
I guessed Raburn, so I lose.
That oblique thing is really going around. A tweaked oblique. Is that like a bruised obtuse?
Splenda is a sugar substitute provided as an option by many fine family establishments. It is also often used in soft drinks
huge powerplay goal ties it for the wings as maggs strikes out.
Speaking of DL-prone pitchers, I noticed that Mark Prior again suffered a season ending injury. Maybe it’s time to take a year off or something, Mark.
sup Hannahan
nice K, kenny.
wings lead 3-2, amazing period
“Maybe it’s time to take a year off or something, Mark.”
He can’t throw in the towel now.
Stanley, Stanley
Goodness Cabrera…there was the 3rd out. If anymore runs score remember that play…reminds me of the 7th inning last Sat. Maddening.
Defense at the corners, all season long…
that could have been a lot worse for kenny
Thank you for the Splenda, Dave. Suddenly I’m thirsty for a Fresca. Do they still make it? And why is it nearly impossible to find Vernor’s in Illinois? This place is a pop cultural backwater.
How are the Wings, I mean the Tigers, doing?
Hopefully the Wings can close this one out…… looks like the only championship in Detroit this year for any of the pro teams.
Go Wings!!!
Well, I guess that could have been worse. Despite a ton of pitches in that inning, Kenny looks like he has good command and will have a good k/BB rate tonight. They just had some nice hits.
I have it on good authority that Vernors is readily available as far as California, so the blame really does rest with Illinois specifically.
As for this game, Harden is eviscerating our lineup, much to the surprise of absolutely no one.
Oh nooo!
Mr. Bill????
I’m taking bets that this will be another shutout for the Tigers.
I’ll take that Chris. $5 via paypal?
his stuff is filthy. or at least they are making it look like it. hopefully the second time through they’ll make adjustments…. ah, who am I kidding? night ya’ll.
Jack Cust’s OBA is ridiculous.
Is Emil Brown’s neck really that much thicker than his head?
I’m thinking the A’s will need at least 2 to win. I call no shutout!
Okay - I’m officially tired of hearing Mario tell us how Polanco “rarely strikes out”, especially after these last few games.
Ah, Rogers keep escaping barely. Harden isn’t giving much. Tigers better start working counts, get him out of the game as early as possible.
Yes, Chris, I’m afraid that it is. http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player....._id=111548
And am I going to have to hear the incessant and tuneless caterwauling of that air-horn all night?
7 ks for Polanco in his last 5 games…something isn’t right.
I’m pretty stunned. I was sure Guillen to LF was the catalyst that was going to make this team start hiiting. Oh wait, he’s at 3B. No wonder. Never mind.
I’m pretty stunned. I was sure Guillen to LF was the catalyst that was going to make this team start hitting. Oh wait, he’s at 3B. No wonder. Never mind.
So stunned I had to say it twice. Sorry.
quote of the day:
Dave wrote
As for this game, Harden is eviscerating our lineup, much to the surprise of absolutely no one.
One of the all time great Red Wing games going on.
Rod needs to ask Harden out for dinner and a movie!! He really won’t stop talking about how good he is.. I understand the guy is dealing, but its no surprise, the Tigers suck vs. decent or better pitching.
Looks like Shutout no. 10 coming up.
How long does the Larish experiment last?
“How long does the Larish experiment last?
longer than four days, probably
Emil Brown has as many RBI as Maggs - sad.
Good pitching absolutely dominates this team….it makes absolutely no sense…
Yah, I haven’t been to impressed by Larish, however anything is better then Sheff at this point..
Is it only four days? Seems a lot longer.
What’s Marcus gotta do to get two starts in a row? Or even one.
(although I see the logic of course)
Curtis breaks through! Great AB…
Woo Hoo!!! We have offense!
Pay up Chris.
8 pitch ab. Beauty
Be a switch hitter apparently!!
bye bye shutout
I think leyland is making a big mistake not playing Larish at 1st…. let him get his groove while playing in the field, where he has been in Toledo all season. Making him DH is putting too much emphasis and pressure for him to hit. … not good for an early rookie career.
THATTABABE GRANDY!!!!!
That helps
Wow! an extra base hit - a homer even. A very rare sighting lately (again).
Larish looks slow. Give me Clete Thomas with a little more speed.
And of course he delivers on cue!
Harden’s pitch count is up to 103.
Larish to DTW: take that!
DTW to Larish: whoo hoo!
So…we have a lead….but I am not too sure about that base running by Cabrera…not sure if that was a mistake or if it helped Guillen get home…
hey billfer - u like IBB’s now?
I’m ok with Cabrera there. It looked like it might have been close at home so going to 3rd insured the run would score.
Brenden, I am sure about that baserunning. Cabrera plays like he has his head up his butt sometimes. He has done that twice in the last week. It is as if he has no clue about baserunning basics in this game. It is just stupidty and there is no excuse for it.
Mario says he gave himself up to ensure the run………I don’t by that…..
Another quality start - gotta like that.
Earlier in the game, on the exact same kind of play for Oakland, we had them nailed going to third. But Cabrera dropped the throw in. Luckily Kenny struck out the next batter. But although Cabrera can hit, and sometimes he even gets clutch hits, his overall attention and baseball skill is suspect. He is getting better at first…but he sometimes seems muscle bound and distracted. Sometimes he seems to make little league mistakes that I can’t understand.
A couple of good and tight games for Detroit teams tongiht. Wish I was somewhere downtown in a Motown bar tonight watching . Let’s hope the Wings pull it out and the bullpen can save the game.
Isn’t it the 3B coaches responsibility to bring himon or hold him up there? My guess is that unless Cabrera has eyes in the back of his head, he wasn’t aware of where Guillen was as he rounded second.
$5 for Kevin in Austin! That’s a gallon of gas and some change!
I think Cabrera’s decisions are a Rorschach test for people’s feelings about him
Crap…..
I did have hope for a win….now it’s gone…
2-2 after 7. Have the Tigers already blown it? I can’t be THAT far behind. Can I?
Cruceta up in the pen - eek!
whoa! choppy video here on mlb.com but Rajai looked safe on that force out.
The bullpen is moments away from giving this game away…same old bull crap…different day…
Don’t worry guys, Deric Barton isn’t good enough to get three hits in one game.
Seay it isn’t so
Seay escapes…barely!
That was a little too close to a meltdown for my taste
Seay = Rollercoaster Jr.
I had complete confidence in Seay. I wasn’t nervous at all.
Still life with Larrish
Hey, did you guys know Seay walked in the winning run in the 12th once? (Johnny Carson voice) I did not know that. Weird.
Or, since he is lefthanded, Retsoacrellor.
Ha Ha Ha Johnny. Good one. (McMann voice)
Tough game for the Wings. Terrible high-sticking, just lazy stick handling. That’s okay, Wings will win in 6. Let’s see if Detroit can win one before then.
You gotta have thick skin to be a Detroit fan. We’ll get em’ in Pittsburgh.
Renteria is an idiot….wow….
He’s not an idiot… he’s just sloooowww
Or, since Seay is lefthanded, Retsaocrellor.
Cruceta’s in…..oh boy…I think it’s time for sleep….I can just dream of a Tigers win, cause I don’t think it is going to really happen…
now it’s over. Cruceta’s in..
Sorry about the Wings.
Oh, Cruceta’s in. This one’s in the bag. But which bag? Give me a “You are correct, sir!”
I think the game is over now that Cruceta is in there. I hope I’m wrong!
-Sam
Don’t worry, Cruceta is golden with men on. I can see an IBB with a man on first.
Cruceta is the new Grilli.
Keep bringing in Cruceta in those high leverage situations Jimmy! Good Job!
-Sam
It was only a matter of time.
Ah, quick and painless. Thank you, FC.
what a joke. He’s like Jose Mesa. I can’t believe he let a .265 hitter beat him.
Cruceta is crap. What a horrible loss.
Good thing I don’t drink anymore.
They both lose in a 5 minute span. Go Lions.
Holding steady at 9 games under .500.
Oh well, the losses don’t sting as much anymore because I’ve come to expect them.
They should bounce back tomorrow with a lefty on the mound.
Let the second guessing begin. I mean, continue. Why was Rogers brought in for the 8th at 100 pitches? I mean, aside from the Tigers bullpen. That seemed odd.
I see the Tigers got 5 hits. The Tigers seldom win with 10 hits. How are they gonna do it with 5? Yeah, the bullpen lost it. But not without help.
Rogers was brought back out at 100 pitches in the 8th to act as a lefty specialist. He was done even if he struck out the lefty he was sent in to face. I don’t think that was a bad move at all.
“I can’t believe he let a .265 hitter beat him.”
What I can’t believe is what happened with the .160 hitter - who had grounded out 3 times - the inning before. Who is T. Buck? Obviously a force to be reckoned with. Gotta say, his neck gives Ellis a run for the money. The Tigers need some necks like that. Forget the facial hair, guys. Necks.
When the game is close, you just KNOW the Tigers will lose. They are 2-8 in games decided by 1 run. Three of those games came in this road trip.
This season SUCKS!!!!
Bautista in, Cruceta out? I’m just asking. It’s probably a wash.
Kenny Rogers with another good start. Any help from the D? Didn’t sound like it.
Thank you, Eric. I don’t know that it was a bad move, but I didn’t understand it at the time. But why not Seay as the lefty specialist right away in the 8th? Because they’re down to one and might have needed him later?
Right. The A’s had a few back to back lefties tonight, and I think Leyland was saving Seay for those guys. It isn’t ridiculous to send a veteran with what, 102 pitches under his belt, out to go after one more batter. Worst case scenario (for his arm), he has a 15 pitch at bat. Oh well. Kenny hasn’t exactly thrown a lot of pitches this year, so he can probably be called on to do it from time to time.
The Detroit starters have put together quite a little run of decent starts.
It was great to see Larish get that go-ahead RBI last night. That’s got to be a confidence booster for him, coming through in that situation against Harden.
Good to see the bats come alive for a little bit late in the game, if only for one inning. That has been rare when the Tigers have been shut down for a number of innings, especially against quality pitching. Way for Granderson to start it off. That at bat alone gives me a lot of hope he’s on his way back.
It was a painful loss, for sure. But the team is playing better. No defensive miscues, good quality starting pitching — I think that’s the main thing. The Ws will come as long as 1-5 can keep it up.
Of course what I’m concerned about is the offensive will start to light up the board right about the time 1-5 decide to go back to sleep. It’s been that kind of season.
of all the losses we’ve suffered this season, this one was a little easier to stomach. Quality pitching, breaking through on a dominant pitching performance, manufacturing runs… Now if we can turn of a couple of these walk-offs into wins, we’ll be okay.
Continuing to look on the bright side, there are now only 55 losses to go. With 50 wins to go along with them, that won’t be so bad, especially in a rebuilding year.
I agree with the sentiments that the team is playing better. The starting pitching has been considerably more efficient, and the offense is showing signs of working a little harder in their at-bats on a consistent basis.
Now if we could only get Leyland to stop putting Cruceta in during a pressure situation. Where’s the Director of Common Sense on that one?
Yeah, the DoCS needs to revoke Jimmy’s Cruceta priveleges. As I believe I’ve mentioned here before, I finally figured out what ‘Jason’ and ‘Grilli’ translate to in Spanish. Other than that, I think the team is showing signs of slowly righting itself with the decent starts they’ve gotten for most of the past 3 weeks or so. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but there’s still time to make a push. As long as they are 5 or fewer GB at the All Star break they should be OK.
“Now if we could only get Leyland to stop putting Cruceta in during a pressure situation.”
Yes, I think the time to worry about showing confidence in Cruceta came and went before last night’s game. I don’t know who the other options were, though (availability). No one has been spotless just lately. I take it Jones was not available. Either that, or they simply don’t care to use him outside of save situations.
You could feel it slipping away in the 8th. The 9th was the time to use up that go-to guy, and Jones is the closest thing they have. Cruceta? Hmmm. Lopez was frightening last time out, but at least he has a track record of some success.
This wouldn’t have hapopened if Jose Mesa were still here. 8th inning, 9th inning, 10th inning - that guy could do it all.
I think Jones not being used was due to the fact that they were on the road more than anything else, Sean. If they were at CoPa, we may have seen him in the 9th. At least they would’ve had a chance to come back after he gave up a go-ahead HR in that scenario. Anyway, theoretically Rodney should be back in short order which, God willing, will banish Cruceta into Bolivian.
Good thinking, Chris. By the way, thanks for coming through with those follow-up stats on Inge. I’m not sure what to make of it yet, but I’m convinced there’s something to it. It might only be a reflection of which pitchers he tends to catch, if there’s any trend there.
Today’s factoid: In games where the Tigers have taken +3 to +8 more walks than they’ve given up, they are only 4-4.
Oh yeah? Well chew on this little nugget of info. The Tigers are 24-0 when outscoring their opponents. I love sabermetrics.
Agree Chris, I stand by my prediction of a good June for the Tigers, and I still think we’ll be above .500 by month-end. It’s a long season and the White Sox are showing signs of imploding (thank YOU, Ozzie Guillen).
Sean you make a good point about alternatives, one that I usually make. I think you’re right that Leyland prefers to use Jones in save situations, which is why you wouldn’t go to him there on the road (at home where a save isn’t possible, my guess is you would see him). Sadly, the only choices at that point were Miner and Lopez. Lopez was terrible last time, but so was Cruceta (the last 4 times, actually), and as you mention, Lopez at least had some success earlier in the year. This is a function of carrying 6 starters I suppose. That and trading Jason Grilli.
Where was the Director of Common Sense just prior to the Guillen to LF brainstorm? Admittedly, the experiment with Thames dragged on for so long and was a miserable failure, but still. This is what finally did it, knocked me off the fence and into the camp of the pessimists. I love what I read about it somewhere, how the move gets Guillen, Cabrera, and Inge into the lineup simultaneously. Oh, really? No other way to do that, I guess. Jim Leyland, you are wise.
It’s funny, Mark, but not so long ago I was thinking what a pleasant surprise the bullpen had turned out to be. Now that the starting’s getting good, the games get closer, the situations become more high-leverage, and now the warts are starting to show again.
You make a good point about the cost of carrying 6 starters. It would seem they are tied to this for a while, unless Willis dazzles right away, a most unlikely propsect.
I know better play is the solution. Simply delivering on that talent and potential. I won’t propose any trades as a cure, but still, indulge me.
I’m pretty ignorant about the rest of the league. I think the Tigers could use a 3B and a catcher. I’m not saying THEY think so or that you should, but ARE there any players at these positions that could be available mid-season that could - in theory - help the Tigers? Tell me who they are, and I promise I won’t campaign for their acquisition. Just need something to keep my mind off all there is to complain about.
“The Tigers are 24-0 when outscoring their opponents.”
Hey, man - are you mocking my factoid? I had to work for that one - it wasn’t something I read somewhere, you know.
And I still think it’s remarkable that the Tigers are 3-28 when outhit. Independent of other factors, including walks. Yes, being outhit makes a team somewhat more likely to lose - but 90% likely?
Sean: I wasn’t mocking your factoid. Just adding to the wealth of information that we provide for all 14 people who read the comments section. As for your question about the 3B/C conundrum….I don’t think there’s anyone who really jumps out at you in those positions, especially C. As far as impending Free Agents go, guys like Casey Blake and Joe Crede will be available. Hank Blalock and Chipper Jones have club options. None of those are particularly appealing options. Crede and Blalock are too risky health-wise, no way the Braves don’t pick up Jones’ option and Blake is 35 years old and sucks anyhow. So yeah, slim pickins. By the way, you can find out all of this crap on http://www.mlbtraderumors.com
Sean, I was with you, pleasantly surprised by the early returns on the bullpen. However it’s definitely a different story lately, although Dolsi has been a good find and looks like he has some ability. Not that I’m depending on them, but if Zumaya and Rodney can be anywhere near their usual selves when they come back, the bullpen suddenly doesn’t look bad with Cruceta/Dolsi/Miner for the 6th and 7th, either Rodney or Zumaya for the 8th, and Jose Mesa, er Jones in the 9th (sorry didn’t mean to get your hopes up).
As for filling in holes, I think the entire league is looking for catching (especially prospects), it’s very hard to come by right now. To get an idea who might be available, take a look at all the bad teams who are likely to be sellers and see who catches for them. It generally isn’t pretty.
“Just adding to the wealth of information that we provide for all 14 people who read the comments section.”
Ha! All right, Chris, I’ll let you off with a warning this time. I’m very sensitive about my factoids. I sweat and slave to come up with some overlooked and possibly useful information to compensate for my largely useless comments, and what I do I have to show for it? Bupkus. Not even an “attaboy” or “nice try” from Billfer. Well, I don’t need this crap. I’m going over to motownsports.com and argue with The Strategy Guy. Yeah. I sure don’t need youse guys.
By the way, Marcus Thames has a .275 BAbip against RHP. Way better than against LHP. I didn’t work for this one.
Mark, Dolsi really has been a good find. He’s been a bit shaky in tight spots, but he’s a hell of an upgrade over Grilli for middle relief. He gets ground ball outs. I just wish the Tigers could make more (as in any) double plays out of them.
“I just wish the Tigers could make more (as in any) double plays out of them.”
That would require infielders who were able to move “left” or “right” as well as bend over and touch the ground. And yes, that was a thinly veiled jab at Edgar Allen Poe, er, Renteria.
just out of curiosity Sean, where did you get the BABIP numbers for Marcus? I get sick of doing the calculationg when I want to figure it out for somebody.
Mark - baseballreference.com
The stat I cited was for 2008. Small sample size. Still interesting, though. I was looking at platoon splits for Thames and Granderson and thinking irrational thoughts about platooning them in LF.
You can find BABiP numbers on the splits page at baseball-reference if I’m not mistaken. (Sorry if I beat you to the puch on that one, Sean). I like that ‘Dolsi’ is an anagram for ‘Solid’. I think I’ll start calling him Freddy Solid. That sounds cooler. Much more intimidating.
The lack of DPs, it seems to me, stems from Renteria’s sluggish release out of the glove. Unless it’s taylor-made, the 6-4-3 double play is tough one with the Tiger’s current infield configeration.
I wasn’t aware they had that stuff on the bball-ref page, I have alway stuck to the main stats page. Thanks for the heads up, guys. Also, I managed to dig up fangraphs, which has BABIP too.
Freddy Solid is most definitely a kickarse nickname, Chris. Well done.
The Telltale Shortstop. No matter where you bury him in the lineup…
I’m guessing “proud” Edgar is much too proud to be replaced late in the game by Santiago. But the last time I advocated for more playing time for Santiago, he goofed up against KC. Still, that could some “stuff” for Jim to try in the short time he has left.
Freddy Solid! Cool. Cruceta is an anagram for another kind of solid - oddly, a slang term of only 4 letters.
Wow I made a typo. It turns out I didn’t beat Sean to the ‘puch’ anyway. So yeah, I’m an idiot. Anyway, I’m not overly enamored with the pitching matchups for the remainder of this Oakland series. I had the Tigs penciled in for a win last night due to the Rogers/McAfee factor. Now I have them penciled in for a sweep. Before the season looking at this series on the schedule, I’d definitely have thought the Tigers would cremate the A’s. Funny how perceptions change in 2 short months…
well guys, thanks for wasting the rest of my afternoon.
oh man i’m totally not getting anything done today…
OK since I am a complete dork, I plugged in ‘Francisco’ and ‘Cruceta’ into the ol’ anagram machine and came up with ‘Succinct or a Farce’. That works. He’s succinct in that his outings are decided very quickly, and he’s a farce in that he…well he’s a farce. It’s really a shame he doesn’t have a K in his name though…
ok, so did anybody else know that the Tigers drafted Rodney Peete (3B - University of S. California) in the 28th round of the 1990 draft?
Succinct Farce! Excellent!
We’ve ruined Mark, Chris. We shouldn’t have told him.
you’re not an idiot, Chris. You couldn’t know that here at work, I am Mr. Broadband, actually in sync with the rest of the world, as opposed to an inning or so behind like I am when I try to keep up with a game thread from home..
Yeah, of course I knew about Peete, Mark. Everyone knows that. Talk about stale news. You and your baseballreference.com.
Just kidding.
I actually didn’t know that about Rodney Peete. I’m so out of the loop. And I call myself a Tigers fan. Geez
baseball-reference rules. Although I find myself wasting more time on Baseball Prospectus these days. I’m such a VORP-y.
“The lack of DPs, it seems to me, stems from Renteria’s sluggish release out of the glove.”
That jibes with a number of comments on plays I’ve heard.
The DP you should have gotten is the same 4th out you give out with an error. It’s worth looking into what the impact of this has been on the Tigers season so far.
I’m not a Renteria-hater, but this aspect of his game is getting on my nerves. Is “proud” Edgar too proud to be pulled late in the game for Santiago? Although - the last time I advocated for more playing time for Santiago, he goofed up against KC. Still, this is some “stuff” Jim might want to try in the short time he has left.
I’m going to make a rare non-Tigers related comment here. I’m going to assume that some of you are Wings fans so you’ve been watching the Stanley Cup. I’ve come to the conclusion, however, that if Don Cherry and Craig Sager were ever to appear on the same TV screen, the universe would collapse upon itself. Just a theory.