Game 16: Tigers at Indians

by billfer on April 17, 2008 · 103 comments

in 2008 Season,Game Post

The Natural Lightning BoltPREGAME: The Tigers will try to keep rolling along as they send Justin Verlander out to do battle with Fausto Carmona.

Verlander is coming off his best start of the season, though you wouldn’t know it by looking at his final line. He had allowed just 1 run through the first 7 innings against the White Sox on Saturady before things fell apart for him in the 8th. Verlander has struggled against the Indians historically. Last year he allowed 7 runs in 3 of his 5 starts against them, including a 4 homer effort in September.

Carmona’s stats just don’t add up for the Tribe this year. He has 17 walks and only 8 strikeouts in 16 innings so far. Eight of those walks came in his last start against the A’s. Yet his ERA is 2.20. Part of the reason is he’s only allowed 1 extra base hit. Another part of the explanation is his power sinker induces double play balls and opponents have hit into 7 in his 3 games.

DET @ CLE, Thursday, April 17, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

Game Time 7:05

POSTGAME: I really have very little to say about this one. I missed the first couple innings while coaching my son’s team. Saw the blow-up in the middle innings, and that’s about it. Verlander seemed to be hitting 94 mph a little more and it came at the expense of his control. I wonder if it was a situation like Todd Jones in spring training where he was over throwing because of all the velocity concerns. Or perhaps he just didn’t have it again.

And the offense generated some chances but couldn’t capitalize. These games are a lot less worrisome after a 3 game win streak.

 
 

{ 103 comments }

Tbone April 17, 2008 at 6:54 pm

No Pudge, no Polanco:

Thomas, LF
Santiago, 2B
Sheffield, DH
Ordonez, RF
Cabrera, 3B
Guillen, 1B
Renteria, SS
Jones, LF
Inge, C

Kevin in Austin April 17, 2008 at 7:04 pm

So bizarre. Renteria should be batting 2nd. I just don’t get it.

ChicagoJoe April 17, 2008 at 7:09 pm

Just a question, why do we have our two worst hitters in the lineup hitting 1st and 2nd?

Go Tigers

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 7:13 pm

I’m not sure which is worse: Pudge leading off or Santiago second.

Both are just inexplicable.

Tbone April 17, 2008 at 7:24 pm

At this point, I don’t think you can call Clete Thomas one of our two worst hitters.

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 7:27 pm

Grady was out. Sheesh.

Kevin in Austin April 17, 2008 at 7:27 pm

Cle radio guys made it sound as if Sizemore was out.

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 7:28 pm

Missed call there. Sizemore was out.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 7:29 pm

Ominous beginning for Verlander.

Brian P April 17, 2008 at 7:29 pm

Oh man. After seeing that slow-mo replay, it’s obvoius that Grady was out by a foot.

Jeff M April 17, 2008 at 7:31 pm

These pitches look disgusting on Gameday. Is JV drunk??

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 7:32 pm

safe or out, Inge definitely has a hose.

looks like Verlander is doing his best C.C. impression.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 7:32 pm

LOL Jeff! I was wondering something similar. ;)

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 7:33 pm

The way Justin is pitching, I’m thinking he’s going to hit Peralta on a 1-2 count.

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 7:35 pm

YES! Looks like the Indians have been boning up on the 0-7 Tigers playbook.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 7:35 pm

‘Bout time the other team bounces into an inning ending double play.

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 7:35 pm

It took 21 pitches and he looked terrible, but somehow he got out of that inning with no runs allowed.

Kevin in Austin April 17, 2008 at 7:36 pm

Good for JV. He deserved to get out unscathed.

Brian P April 17, 2008 at 7:39 pm

I like Edgar, but Andy Van Slyke needs to pull him aside and tuck in his jersey.

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 7:43 pm

wow…Garko missing that ball…the Indians have become the Tigers. I love it.

Kevin in Austin April 17, 2008 at 7:44 pm

Maybe that’s why Renteria isn’t batting second. Pay attention man.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 7:45 pm

Is Renteria a fairly slow runner or was that not a deeply hit double for Brandon? Just trying to figure out how he didn’t score on that one.

Brian P April 17, 2008 at 7:45 pm

Ugh! I’m guessing he thought it was out of the park — but jeez, run it out. That’s a missed run. It went off the very top of the left field wall, Andrew.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 7:49 pm

Verlander is looking craptacular so far this evening.

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 7:50 pm

Jeez…Verlander had absolutely nothing. That’s scary.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 7:51 pm

Every pitcher we have should have taken notes on Galarraga’s performance last night.

The guy just threw strikes and had success. Imagine that?

Jeff M April 17, 2008 at 7:51 pm

Is anyone warming up yet?

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 7:55 pm

Ugh. JV looks awful. Cannot throw strikes.

What is it about Casey Blake? God how I hate him (almost as much as Crede…)

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 7:56 pm

Inge misses a HR, Blake gets a double….game of friggin’ inches…

Jeff M April 17, 2008 at 7:57 pm

It’s not that simple, Andrew. Galarraga had his best stuff last night against a struggling team. If JV abandoned his game plan and started firing fastballs towards the middle of the plate simply to “throw strikes”, he’d get rocked even worse than he is now.

Having said that, he clearly doesn’t have the stuff to implement his game plan tonight, so he needs to have a seat sooner than later.

Steve in Kzoo April 17, 2008 at 7:57 pm

Is tonights game on FSN+ again, cause i have some crappy stuff on tonight on FSN?

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 7:58 pm

Yeah, so, Verlander looks awful tonight….

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 8:03 pm

What is it with the regular starters this season? They just can’t get going, just like last year. I don’t understand it…

Joe in Holland April 17, 2008 at 8:06 pm

Verlander very well may be their ace in the future, but not yet. They do not have a true ace on this team, someone who gives them a chance to win everytime they take the mound.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:07 pm

I’m just saying – it would be nice for our “Ace” to pitch like one sometime this year. When your best outing of the year by a starting pitcher has about 4 games of big league experience under his belt – you’ve gotta question the spring training preparation our guys had.

JV shouldn’t be pitching this horribly.

It’s like we’re watching Bizarro Tigers this year or something. Up is down and left is right and the Tigers and Indians are fighting to stay out of last place in the division.

Who would have thunk it?

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 8:10 pm

Exactly…none of the starters look good this year….

Verlander has lost his velocity.

Robertson can’t get past the 3rd.

Rogers lost his composure.

Bonderman is patchy.

It just doesn’t make sense…

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 8:12 pm

Awful inning at the plate, too. Verlander had like 2 minutes to sit down.

He’s toast.

Joe in Holland April 17, 2008 at 8:13 pm

Pre-game preperation, coaching, cold weather? Who knows what is going on with this staff. Lets hope they get it figured out. Doesn’t look like a night that they score double digits again.

Brian P April 17, 2008 at 8:17 pm

There’s something from spring training about Verlander I can’t recall, but I seem to remember a story about it somewhere. Initially, he wasn’t trying to push off the rubber with his right foot as much. But when he started trying to, he began his spring training struggles. If he’s not comfortable strongly pushing off the rubber, then that would certainly explain the lack of velocity.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:17 pm

Seriously, is there someone warming up in the pen. Verlander just doesn’t have it tonight.

Joe in Holland April 17, 2008 at 8:19 pm

Brian, I do not recall that, but if it is true then Chuck Hernandez needs to be held accountable.

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 8:22 pm

Verlander has to battle and eat up some innings, because it doesn’t get better if we bring in Miner. We’re only down 3-0.

Verlander at 75% is still better than anyone in our pen at 100%

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:26 pm

Yeah, I know Mark. I’m just dumbfounded at our starting pitching so far this year. It sure is strange that they are all suffering in some way at the same time.

Just smacks of a lack of prep in spring training don’t you think?

Jeff M April 17, 2008 at 8:27 pm

Yeah, Mark, but is he at 75%?

68 pitches through 3 innings and barely half of them for strikes.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:29 pm

Is this lineup waiting for the 8th inning to do something? Other than the 2nd when they had runners in scoring position with 2 outs they sure look toothless so far.

Another quick outing and a short rest for Verlander (like Mark noted after the last Tigers at bat).

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:36 pm

Wow, 85 pitches through 4. Will JV have enough to get through the 5th? He’s been topping out strength-wise around 90-95 pitches so far.

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 8:39 pm

Clearly JV doesn’t have his best tonight, and I have no idea if he’s at 75% or 25%. But going to the bullpen now does several things

1) removes your most talented pitcher from the game, thereby giving him no shot to turn it around (the last two innings have been better)

2) effectively gives up this game down only 3-0 unless the offense can come up with 5-6 runs at least because counting on our bullpen to throw 4 scoreless innings is a pipedream

3) uses guys today that would otherwise be counted in against Toronto

Chances are we lose this game since JV will tire and Leyland will leave him out there too long, but at least he gave us a shot to come back, ate up some innings, and turned it over to a bullpen that probably only has to pitch 2 innings

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 8:41 pm

Man, another blown call. Jones beat that one.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:41 pm

Mark, do you think JV can make it through the 7th? I’m not a betting man, but I have my doubts about him getting through the 5th.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:42 pm

Oops, make that the 6th (if we aren’t ahead by the 9th) to only need 2 innings of relief.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:44 pm

So how long does the experiment known as Jacque Jones last? He’s like C-Monroe without the power.

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 8:44 pm

Boy…the offense is not clicking tonight….

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:46 pm

Leyland is playing with fire leaving JV out there. Perhaps we could turn it over to our bullpen and actually give up fewer runs than Verlander looks like he might give up.

Just sayin’.

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 8:50 pm

Count this one as a lost….

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:51 pm

Woosh! There’s the fire I was talking about Jimmy.

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 8:51 pm

No, Andrew you’re right JV won’t make it through the 7th, and even getting through the 6th might be a stretch. But I still believe leaving him in was the right move, we’re only down by 3 still. Bullpen couldn’t have done any better.

I totally agree with you that Leyland is playing with fire leaving JV in, and I fully believe he’ll do so (see my earlier comment). To compound the problem, Verlander will leave with guys on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, and our new pitcher almost assuredly allow them to score.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:53 pm

Jeez, how many guys has Verlander hit tonight?

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 8:54 pm

If anyone needs some good news, at least Halladay is pitching tonight for the Jays, so we’ll miss him up North.

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 8:54 pm

Something is not right with Verlander. He has hit so many batters already this year, walked a ton, and has hardly any strike outs. I know they are trying to turn him into a pitcher, but when will they end this experiment? I don’t think it is working out too well.

Andrew April 17, 2008 at 8:55 pm

Mike, that is good news. Didn’t we catch Halladay just about every series we played with the Jays last year?

At least it seems like we did.

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 8:59 pm

The one on Sheff was intentional.

Brian in Tampa April 17, 2008 at 9:00 pm

Good job Magglio. Now we need a slam from Miggy!!

Brian P April 17, 2008 at 9:04 pm

Ugly, ugly baserunning tonight. He shoudldn’t have been sent.

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 9:04 pm

Jeez…you send the runner when the outfielder has the ball while the runner is on third base? Odd call.

Brian in Tampa April 17, 2008 at 9:05 pm

Where’s the slide.

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 9:05 pm

What a waste of an inning….

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 9:08 pm

And then they bring this genius in…tell me, how is Miner still in the bull pen?

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 9:10 pm

Yikes…Miner just “closed” this one. Terrible.

Jim in Mac April 17, 2008 at 9:11 pm

miner brought some matches …i was really hoping he wasn’t gonna suck tonight.. so much for wishful thinking

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 9:12 pm

yeah…Miner is on the fast track to Toledo.

Brian P April 17, 2008 at 9:13 pm

Put him on the same plane with Granderson to A ball.

Jim in Mac April 17, 2008 at 9:14 pm

is there really a point to let miner go on…even if he settles down he’s gonna suck the next time he’s out

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 9:14 pm

Good thing Miner has an option left, because I’d really hate to lose him on waivers on his way back down to Toledo…{rolling eyes}

Steve April 17, 2008 at 9:18 pm

Is there an out anywhere in our future?

Chris April 17, 2008 at 9:23 pm

Miner sucks…. Way worse than Grilli…

PHT in HK April 17, 2008 at 9:26 pm

If the boys can come back from this, I will be very impressed.

Steve in Kzoo April 17, 2008 at 9:40 pm

We only need one mop up, long innings reliever in there and thats Grilli, Miner is built to be a starter and should be put down to AAA to become a starter………he’s really sucking as a long reliever not to mention any other role he’s been given this year.

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 9:41 pm

“Miner sucks…. Way worse than Grilli…”

Never thought I’d see something like that on this board.

Steve in Kzoo April 17, 2008 at 9:43 pm

May I ask what the hell was that in brining out Maggs, I dont have the FSN broadcast tonight, why did Leyland sub Maggs in teh 7th?

greg April 17, 2008 at 9:44 pm

Anyone know why Raburn replaced Maggs? I know it was 10-1, but the bases were loaded.

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 9:45 pm

I’m hoping this isn’t a slip back into the slump…

Mike in CT April 17, 2008 at 9:46 pm

Seay it aint so, why is are arguably most effective guy in the pen pitching in a 10-1 game with a four-game set in Toronto on the horizon?

Brian P April 17, 2008 at 9:48 pm

He’s hardly pitched. Neither has Bautista, whom I expect to get an inning tonight too.

Steve in Kzoo April 17, 2008 at 9:51 pm

Well its been fun guys, but this games a bust right now. I’ll see ya tomorrow same bat time, same bat place, same bat channel.

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 9:52 pm

Hey we’re still 5-4 since our 0-7 start…

Brian in Tampa April 17, 2008 at 9:56 pm

5-11 with our best starter looking like garbage all year. JV needs to turn it around. 4 starts no wins.

Brenden April 17, 2008 at 10:00 pm

That goes for all the starters. None of them, besides Galarraga, have looked all that great. It all comes down to pitching and that is one area where this team is still slumping.

Tbone April 17, 2008 at 10:01 pm

Lots to worry about with Verlander. His velocity is down and JL had to keep him out for 100+ again. I just hope he’s not injured.

Brian in Tampa April 17, 2008 at 10:04 pm

Besides Galarraga the best pitched game was the one Willis got hurt in and the pen pitched most of the game.

Mark in Chicago April 17, 2008 at 10:12 pm

I’m not overly concerned about Verlander. He was pretty good opening day and real good until Leyland left him out to dry against the Sox. He definitely has room to improve, but I don’t think it’s that concerning.

Of greater importance is our starters’ inabaility to throw quality strikes and avoid running up pitch counts on a consistent basis (that includes JV).

Kathy April 17, 2008 at 10:54 pm

Well, that’s it. The skipper just gave an interview while chewing his dinner. Didn’t we just get an apology from him a week or so ago about doing the very same thing? Kinda makes me wonder.

Jojo Sun Devil April 18, 2008 at 1:50 am

I have always been one of Miner’s biggest supporters, but man that kid is really struggling. He may need some minor league practice. We can come back from 5-1, but not from 10-1.

Chris April 18, 2008 at 2:17 am

I think the Tigers absolutely cannot use Miner as a mop-up man anymore. Perhaps they need to find a replacement and send him to Toledo to get conditioned to be a spot starter. He has become worthless for anything else for this organization.

William April 18, 2008 at 7:17 am

there is a ton to worry about with our pitching. we are going to score a ton of turns eventually, but our staff has gone from AL best to AL worst in 2 years.

Bonderman and Robertson are mediocre. Rogers is OK. Verlander is struggling, Willis is hurt and our bullpen is a gas can. Not a recipe for success.

cib April 18, 2008 at 8:29 am

Does Galarraga have any brothers??

Andrew April 18, 2008 at 9:22 am

I was listening to talk radio the other day and they were rattling off some of the nicknames for the Tigers bullpen.

Propane Grilli
Miner Leaguer
And of course, The Rollercoaster.

At the time I thought that was a bit harsh for Miner, but he has not been very good at all this year and after last night I think he could use some time at AAA.

ron April 18, 2008 at 9:57 am

The team is on pace to give up a thousand runs. Yikes.

scotsw April 18, 2008 at 9:59 am

Well, there’s lots to talk about…

I’m asking Billfer to start discussion topics a couple times a week. He could get the discussion rolling with a paragraph or so, and then throw it to us. Good to have something to chew on in the a.m. before we get ramped up for the day’s game.

For example, this might be a good time to start a thread on predicting the Tigers’ bullpen makeup on May 1.

Any chance Jordan Tata becomes a useful piece of the puzzle by then? Cruceta?

scotsw April 18, 2008 at 10:00 am

P.S.: I’m extremely worried about Verlander.

I’m also getting close to a “no confidence” vote in Chuck Hernandez. I know he can’t go out there and throw strikes for them, but these guys don’t look ready to pitch.

West Coast Tiger April 18, 2008 at 10:51 am

I have had my questions about aour coaching at third base. I rarely have seen so many miscues; sending guys when we shouldn’t, not sending them when we should. What ever happened to taking out the catcher or the finesse of the slide.

Also, why does every play seem so close at 1st. Even with slow runners. Renteria seem very slow in getting rid of the ball.

cib April 18, 2008 at 11:13 am

West Coast I have been having the same thought with respect to Renteria and the lack of snap on the throws to first. Thought maybe it was my imagination. Mentioned it to the friend with me at the game on Tuesday, in fact.

David G. April 18, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Renteria’s arm is brutal. If you notice he basically just varies the arc to the speed of the runner, which is fine, but he absolutely does not have a Reyes gun in reserve, and you can forget about any sort of play being made in the hole. This team needs to start holding the run totals under 5 on a regular basis or it’s gonna be a mediocre summer, the non-postseason graveyards are full of teams that had a terrific offense but not much pitching or D.

William April 18, 2008 at 4:48 pm

“the non-postseason graveyards are full of teams that had a terrific offense but not much pitching or D.”

see: Rangers, Texas, ca. 1992-2005

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