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Game 54: Tigers at Indians

PREGAME: The Tigers are looking for some way, some how to get their first W against the Tribe. Tonight it will be a rematch of Mike Maroth and Fausto Carmona.

Maroth was touched for a 4 run first inning, but then only allowed 6 more baserunners and managed to stick around for 8 innings.

Against Carmona the Tigers picked up 11 baserunners but could only push across 3 runs.

Game Time 7:05pm

POSTGAME
: So it only took 24 hours to find a new most frustrating game. On a night when a third of your lineup is occupied by bench players, and your offense musters 11 runs against a good pitching staff, and you have a 4 run lead in the 9th, a loss is simply inexcusable. There’s that old axiom of “win and lose as a team” but that simply doesn’t hold true tonight. You can pin this one on two people.

First of all Todd Jones. Jones was awful and there is no getting around it. I’m not upset about the first run in the 8th inning. That was a scratch hit and the second run came on an error. But the 9th inning was despicable. At the same time, he was put in a position to fail and I have to place as much blame on the shoulders of Jim Leyland.

It was easy to see that Jones didn’t have it. He was walking guys which is the first red flag. With a low K-rate, Jones relies on his fielders making plays. He can’t afford the luxury of free passes. And yet Jim Leyland repeatedly refused to make a move. After the Martinez homer, the first long ball Jones had allowed on the season, it was time for someone to get up immediately. A conference at the mound would have been a nice stall tactic. Then after the Jhonny Perralta double another arm would have been warm enough to come in.

Instead Jones stayed in and managed to retire Ryan Garko, running his pitch count up to 36 in the process. Eric Wedge had already brought in his pinch hitters, so a lefty-lefty match-up was certainly in order. Instead the decision was inexplicably made to put the go ahead runner on base, and leave your closer who had already thrown 40 pitches in the game.

And when Jones failed to retire the right handed Josh Barfield and the game was tied, Leyland still stuck with Jones. Now 2 batters ago, Leyland thought that Jones wasn’t well suited to pitch to lefty Trot Nixon. Yet now with the game tied and a runner on 3rd Jones should be able to retire lefty Dave Dellucci? Of course Dellucci ended with a line drive up the middle.

Leyland should have lifted Jones after the Perralta double. He should have lifted him and brought in Bobby Seay who was warm to face Trot Nixon instead of walking him. And he should have lifted Jones and brought in Seay to face Dellucci after the Barfield single. He had ample opportunities to do something, and he didn’t make a move.

If you’ve read this blog for awhile, you know that I hate to assign losses to managers. Most of the time I can at least understand decisions even if I don’t agree with them. And there is no guaranteeing the result regardless. However tonight Leyland blew this game as much, if not more, than Jones did. I don’t know how Seay would have fared, but it would have given the team a better chance to win. I waited to write this until after the post game presser, but the portion shown on FSN involved no questions as to why Jones was allowed to completely give that game away.

I’ve often disagreed with Leyland’s tactical decisions. But even though I can’t quantify it, I felt that his greatest strength last year was in managing the clubhouse and getting guys to believe. I just wonder how he addresses a team tomorrow that scored 11 runs only to not have it be enough, or a closer who he hung out to dry.

Posted by on June 1, 2007.

Categories: 2007 Season, Game Post

166 Responses

  1. What’s with all of the broken bats lately?

    by cib on Jun 1, 2007 at 7:57 pm

  2. Maroth’s crusin’

    by Dave Wagner on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:08 pm

  3. Yeah, he looks great.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:48 pm

  4. Granderson is gold glove material….his arm is no longer an issue..in fact its damn good…who is playing better center field right now??????????

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:49 pm

  5. is it mesa time?

    by charlie on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:53 pm

  6. pitching killing us again???

    by charlie on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:53 pm

  7. this can’t be happening

    by cib on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:54 pm

  8. So much for Maroth cruising.

    by Lee Panas on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:54 pm

  9. He is Maroth.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:56 pm

  10. Couple bad pitches to this team and you’ll pay.

    by Kathy on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:59 pm

  11. Grandy has simply been grandyful. He just keeps getting better and better. I believe he will be a gold glover within a couple year. What a player!

    by Kathy on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:01 pm

  12. Ok, we are missing Guillen a ton. But, I kinda like Omar down at 3B for a while. He does not have the range Inge does, but certainly hits better.

    Omar is still only 25 years old!!!

    -Sam

    by Sam on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:04 pm

  13. Sac bunt with Curtis?

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:06 pm

  14. Genius!

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:06 pm

  15. I apologize for coming home from dinner with my family for my parents anniversary. I turned on the game, saw the Monroe HR and then saw Cleveland’s big inning. I jinxed it.

    And can I just say that the Sean Casey thread was by far the best thread of the season so far, billfer. Great discussion.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:08 pm

  16. Well, I’ve been redeemed by the offense. Station to station, I’ll take it. We need to put up a big time crooked number and get this out of Jose Mesa distance.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:13 pm

  17. Grandy = 5 tool player

    by Kathy on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:15 pm

  18. Infante does not get enough credit. They are always throwing him somewhere different and he adapts. Always ready to go. Before you know it he’ll be in the bullpen.

    by cib on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:16 pm

  19. Grady Sizemore. Yikes

    by Kathy on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:23 pm

  20. Well, see, Maroth meant to give up those four runs in the seventh. He just wanted to keep the Indians in the game so their collective self-esteem would not be irreparably damaged. Maroth’s a pretty great guy imo

    by Dave Wagner on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:34 pm

  21. err “in the sixth” rather

    by Dave Wagner on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:35 pm

  22. I can’t take it. So help me God, if we lose this game …………….

    by Kathy on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:40 pm

  23. Jones doesn’t even look ready. Why not stall longer?

    by billfer on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:42 pm

  24. We all know what happens when Jones pitches more than 1 inning…

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:43 pm

  25. Cooked.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:46 pm

  26. A little luck for Nixon and then Granderson just…. I don’t even know what.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:46 pm

  27. That throw was incredible.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:48 pm

  28. I’ve officially copped out. My TV and radio are turned off. If there’s a meltdown, I don’t want to see it. Goodnight, sleep tight, and please, let my Tigers win tonight!

    by Kathy on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:48 pm

  29. I would’ve stayed with Ledezma rather than throw it to jones with ducks on.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:49 pm

  30. I wish Todd would drop the curveball in more often then he does. Delucci’s not looking for it (no one does) and i bet he’d take it.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:49 pm

  31. Jonesey the stopper. This ‘pen is broke.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:50 pm

  32. Haha! Hilarious Chris Y.

    And totally accurate.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:52 pm

  33. obviously

    by Mark S. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:52 pm

  34. Did i ever tell you i love P^2

    by Mark S. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:53 pm

  35. Jones just was just hoping he could still make it a save situation.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:55 pm

  36. it’s one thing to always show confidence in your players but i want to see byrdak in the 9th…he is pitching well out of the pen and we need to win this game. jones to the showers.

    by charlie on Jun 1, 2007 at 9:58 pm

  37. Hey Mike – that IBB to Ordonez was part of that protection thing :-)

    by billfer on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:00 pm

  38. Sheff wanted to argue that call so bad. It was a pretty high strike.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:00 pm

  39. Haha, I wasn’t saying what you said about Guillen behind Magg’s was wrong. I just think that sheffield being on base and with polanco and granderson being on base a decent clips, that offers more protection. If Sheffield walks there (which he should’ve) Magglio is pitched to and this is potentially a 3-4-5 run lead. I think 1-3 in the order are more ‘protection’ then Guillen/Thames/Casey behind.

    But I like how Rod was shocked the walked Maggs. Like pitching to the man with 11 RBIs in what’s nearing 170 AB’s is the wrong decision. haha.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:03 pm

  40. And looking at the numbers, I would’ve walked Magglio even if Guillen’s in the game. Guillen has 8 RBIs in his last 10 games, 5 of them came in his 2 HR game against the Angels and he’s only hitting .275 in his last 10 games and is 3 for his last 20.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:05 pm

  41. I would have walked Magglio to set up the double play unless I was bring up Ruth.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:11 pm

  42. I hear what you’re saying too. Just that sitting in his spot has been a pretty sweet place to hit all season. And that was an awfully high strike called on Sheffield. The fact that Martinez didn’t bother to throw should have been enough evidence.

    by billfer on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:12 pm

  43. I know Monroe had a big hit tonight, but that K against cabrera was ridiculous. Rabelo comes up taking all the way and gets on with 4 straight balls. He and Inge just don’t seem to think a whole lot up there.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:13 pm

  44. That looked like a strike to me Billfer. And, although this may not be the greatest evidence, the Cleveland broadcast did the ESPN strike zone graphic replay, which showed it as a strike.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:15 pm

  45. casey won a race…what a ballgame. no jones i hope…that would be toooo exciting.

    by charlie on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:17 pm

  46. neifi, neifi… should’ve pinch-hit for that guy.

    by Ben on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:19 pm

  47. I agree with you for sure billfer. If I was a slugger around the AL i’d love to be in Magglio’s spot, definitely. But it’s okay to admit I’m right :-).

    I was hoping for one more to make it 12-7, but I like out chances. Jonesy will have a good 9th.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:20 pm

  48. Joey – it was a rule book strike. FSN Detroit showed it from the side and it crossed at the letters. But that never gets called.

    by billfer on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:20 pm

  49. Eeeep. Come on Johnny Cakes, 3 quick outs.

    by Walewander on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:21 pm

  50. Never?

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:21 pm

  51. I think there’s definitely something to your claim Billfer. The seventh was a good example. I’m not sure it matters a whole lot who’s behind Maggs right now. Guillen definitely helps, though. But with 1 out in the 9th trying to stay in the game, I’d set up the DP every single time. Unless, its Ruth.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:21 pm

  52. Wow. That was a hell of a curve that Hafner just laid off.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:26 pm

  53. Quick: name Jones’ last 1-2-3 inning…

    by Bobby on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:27 pm

  54. Oh good Lord

    by billfer on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:28 pm

  55. Jeezus…

    by Bobby on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:28 pm

  56. Little League.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:28 pm

  57. Oh wow. 5 HR’s against the Tigers this year. Martinez is this years Dye/Crede/Thome.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:28 pm

  58. friggin jones…i told you we needed byrdak tonite.

    by charlie on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:29 pm

  59. Send Rabelo out there. Stall, and get someone up. I don’t care if Jones likes it or not.

    by billfer on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:29 pm

  60. I hate our bullpen.

    by Walewander on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:29 pm

  61. I can’t watch anymore ;-)

    -Sam

    by Sam on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:30 pm

  62. Oh my God this is too much.

    by Ben in Denver on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:30 pm

  63. Can should sign a batting machine and pay it 6 mil a year and call it a closer.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:31 pm

  64. crazy

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:32 pm

  65. Is Brendan Fraser still pitching in the Mexican League?

    by Bobby on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:33 pm

  66. Or just bring in Seay to face the left hander. I don’t like this move. Jones has already thrown 36 pitches and doesn’t have it tonight.

    by billfer on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:34 pm

  67. I hate walking the winning run!

    -Sam

    by Sam on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:34 pm

  68. Bring in Byrdak or Seay. Please.

    by Ben on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:34 pm

  69. Call Casey in and let’s for the hidden ball trick!

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:35 pm

  70. i do…jones is the closer…let the captain sink with the ship if need be

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:35 pm

  71. I don’t know how much more of this I can take.

    by Ali on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:36 pm

  72. Kill me. Now.

    by Bobby on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:36 pm

  73. Leyland set Jones up to fail in that situation. Awful Awful Awful

    by billfer on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:36 pm

  74. Seriously. What does Tim Byrdak have to do to get more time out of the pen?

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:36 pm

  75. 4 runs, are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:36 pm

  76. this is devestating

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:37 pm

  77. BAD MOVE!!!!

    by Sam on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:37 pm

  78. Unbelievable.

    by Walewander on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:37 pm

  79. he set jones up to fire him

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:37 pm

  80. Billfer I’m with you. Next post needs to be compiling a “what leyland has done wrong this year” list. He’s done countless things that haven’t put us in the best position to win.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:38 pm

  81. LEYLAND has lost his MIND!!!

    by Sam on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:38 pm

  82. Hey everybody, the magic is back at Jacobs Field!

    Friggin Indians telecast.

    by JoeyC on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:38 pm

  83. Jones has pitched what, 43 pitches? I guess our bullpen is even smaller tomorrow.

    by JoeyC on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:39 pm

  84. That one is on Leyland. No way do you leave Jones in there. I feel bad for Todd Jones. That was plain stupid.

    -Sam

    by Sam on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:40 pm

  85. I’ve officially seen it all.

    by Ali on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:40 pm

  86. Terrible.

    by JoeyC on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:40 pm

  87. absolutely so damn ridiculous. So angry. Where is the lefty? Why is he pitching to Delucci? Jesus. The writers better get in Leyland’s face about this. that is horrible. This is Colorado Rockies Jim Leyland. Terrible. Absolutely horrendous. Put depleted bullpen, no left side of the infield, injuries galore, all aside, this one got away from us thanks to Leyland on this one. Horrible.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:40 pm

  88. I hate Todd Jones, you could stake the guy a 10 run lead and I think he would blow it. I am so PPPPPPPPPPPPP’sd, what the h are they thinking!

    by rene on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:41 pm

  89. well that loss is on leyland…how stubborn is he? jones was in trouble in the 8th and he still brings him out and wouldn’t take him out. the indians deserve to be 4.5 in the lead. i know it’s easy when you win but we keep seeing the bad moves…mesa last nite and jones tonite. i’m just choked.

    by charlie on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:42 pm

  90. I think that was the most heartbreaking game I can remember.

    by Shane trapped in Athens, Ohio on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:42 pm

  91. Just leave him in there, Jim. Doesn’t matter that he gave up six runs already. Just leave him in there.

    I put this one on the manager. And really, WHO ELSE CAN IT GO ON!?

    Maroth? Ledezma?

    by Adam on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:42 pm

  92. Being a baseball closer is like being appointed a supreme court justice. The only way to lose the job is to resign or die. Long live Todd F-ing Jones. Heck, I thought I despised him in his last Tigers stint. But of course, he’s not the moron that keeps bringing him back.

    by KS on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:42 pm

  93. Todd jones is a closer. he was asked to close a simple game. i’m actually a big jones supporter, normally. why dig into saturday’s relief?

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:42 pm

  94. Amen, Sam.

    Can’t wait ’til tomorrow when Jim emphatically states: “Jones is our closer, and will remain our closer period.”

    Joker. This bullpen might as well take a vacation.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:42 pm

  95. Maybe. But jeez, they certainly gave Jones enough runs to work with. If you can’t retire Josh Barfield in a key situation….

    But I see the point on Leyland as well. I’m just so frustrated with this bullpen.

    by Walewander on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:42 pm

  96. Wasn’t it around this time last year, we started putting some serious distance between ourselves and the white sox?

    by JoeyC on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:42 pm

  97. Can’t wait to read billfer’s wrap on this one.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:44 pm

  98. What the hell are those lefties doing languishing in the bullpen in these situations

    by Ben on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:44 pm

  99. Sparky needs to have a talk with Jim about handling pitchers.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:45 pm

  100. I don’t know about bilfer’s joey, but all I could muster on mine was the title “Tigers blow 4 run lead, lose” and the wrap “I have no comment.”

    by Kurt on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:45 pm

  101. You know, I always thought maybe it WAS Leyland that made us good last year, and he was always saying “Oh, well it wasn’t me, it was Dombrowski and the players.”

    Well, NOW I EFFING BELIEVE YOU, JIM EFFING LEYLAND. A THREE YEAR OLD COULD HAVE MANAGED THAT GAME BETTER THAN YOU DID.

    by Adam on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:45 pm

  102. im not sure i ever saw a game like this one before…

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:45 pm

  103. Hey everybody, the magic is back at Jacobs Field!

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:47 pm

  104. Who’s going tomorrow? We need someone to stop the bleeding….

    (prays it’s Bonderman)

    by Walewander on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:48 pm

  105. Seriously. It’s like Leyland and Jones just handed these schmucks their first magic moment of the season. All we need is for them to start thinking they can pull of the impossible whenever they need to.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:49 pm

  106. I’ve been as big a Leyland apologist as anyone, but leaving Jones in to walk Delucci is beyond inexcusable. 40+ pitches, a multitude of hard hit balls. A major league manager wouldn’t leave K-Rod or Joe Nathan in in that situation. To intentionally put the winning run on in that situation instead of bringing in Seay makes no sense on any level.

    by Kyle J on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:49 pm

  107. I emphatically back Leyland on this one. In our current bullpen situation, Jones must step it up. That’s his job. If your house is on fire, you rely on firefighters. You don’t all of sudden demand the people who work the DMV counter to man the hose. I repeat, we have to play again tomorrow. At a certain point, you trust your guys and live and die with them.

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:51 pm

  108. I never want to see Todd Jones again! a frickin 4 run lead, yeah they should of pulled him but why have him in there at all. Can the guy!

    by rene on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:51 pm

  109. God do I hate Cleveland, hopefully this just used up all of the city’s magic.

    by Sean on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:52 pm

  110. You NEVER put the winning run on. NEVER.

    With a guy at second, and that’s it, they can only win with a home run.

    With a guy at second and a guy at first, they win with a double, a triple and a home run.

    Even with two singles they’ve still only tied the game. I mean WHAT THE HELL?

    Are you kidding me? I’m so embarrassed right now. I’m SO embarrassed to be a Tigers fan. I’m almost ashamed. Because my manager let me down. My team did not. My team played a good game, but my manager took a piss down my throat. That’s how I feel.

    by Adam on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:54 pm

  111. I have a feeling a ten run lead wouldn’t have cut it tonight. Dear lord.

    by Dave Wagner on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:54 pm

  112. Look man, I love my friends a whole lot. But a few of them are morons. If I see one of them–and I don’t care how great of a driver he may be–pound a couple pints of jack and smoke a joint, I’m not gonna get in the car with him when he decides to drive to the next spot.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:54 pm

  113. When a right-handed relief pitcher is getting the snot beaten out of him, and a left-handed batter comes up in a crucial situation, you bring in a lefty. Get beyond the concept of “closer.” Jones, like anyone else, sometimes needs bailing out and the manager failed to do that.

    by Ben on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:54 pm

  114. Correction: I meant “to walk Nixon and pitch to Delucci.”

    It’s amazing how much I hate baseball right at this moment.

    by Kyle J on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:55 pm

  115. Rene: Todd just didn’t have it tonight, sure, but it’s not his fault that Leyland hung him out to dry for no reason whatsoever.

    by Dave Wagner on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:55 pm

  116. you are probably right Dave, but right now I am so mad I can’t think straight.

    by rene on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:58 pm

  117. todd (LOSER) jones should be released immediately bring up a guy from AAA it could not be any worse what a loser this guy is he should take mesa and grilli with him

    by j hoyt on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:58 pm

  118. No level-headed commentary tonight, Billfer. We need some rage and anger.

    by Chief on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:58 pm

  119. *** In our current bullpen situation, Jones must step it up. That’s his job. If your house is on fire, you rely on firefighters. You don’t all of sudden demand the people who work the DMV counter to man the hose. ***

    You do understand that the other available guys in the bullpen are relief pitchers, not shortstops, right? They have the same job assignment as Jones, to go out to the mound and keep the other team from scoring.

    by Jeff on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:59 pm

  120. Oh…he’s already been bringin it chief. Tonight’s should be a real cathartic read.

    by Joey C. on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:59 pm

  121. Exactly, Joey C.

    How does any pitcher get a free pass to be shelled?

    Jones doesn’t strike me as the fragile ego type that will be crippled forever if you replace him to win a game. Heck, the guy was relegated to set-up man just a few years ago. He’s OLD. You go f***ing get him, that’s what you do; Byrdak throwing 10-15 pitches isn’t destroying your pen for tomorrow. Besides, the world might end tomorrow. When you start playing for tomorrow, you have become the Royals/Rays.

    They’ll have plenty of time to make friends at your HOF induction.

    Don’t lose you team by making wise-ass decisions.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:02 pm

  122. Thank God, I shut it off. All these losses. And, Todd Jones running his mouth last week about pitchers needing to step up or “they could find themselves replaced”. No magic this year, but there should be. Inexcusable!

    by Kathy on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:03 pm

  123. Alright, I’m just as angry as anyone but let’s not get ridiculous and asking to cut Todd Jones. Yes he shouldn’t have faced that last batter, but releasing him isn’t going to solve anything.

    And dead rabbit: weren’t you just saying the other day we won’t win with Jones as a closer? How can you flip-flop so easily tonight? I get that he is dubbed the ‘closer’ but at some point, when he’s face a career high amount of batters and thrown 40+ pitches, maybe it’s time to get out of the inning and take your chances in extras with a hot lineup that just put up 12 runs.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:04 pm

  124. post game comments from leyland we need to suck it up its gut check time sounds like a manager that doesn’t have a clue what to do with a lousy bullpen. whatever chance the tigers do have that bullpen will be thier downfall

    by j hoyt on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:05 pm

  125. People seem surprised when Leyland does something strange, but remember, he’s below .500 for his career. He’s definitely not Tony LaRussa or Sparky.

    I mean, I like him, but he is what he is. A great motivator and sub-par strategist.

    by Anthony on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:07 pm

  126. You do understand that we play again 19 hours right? 4 runs up. Do you waist what remains of your shelled bullpen for a game that you should under almost any circumstance on plant earth win?

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:08 pm

  127. FSN is now showing a hair-regrowth ad. It’s the most enjoyable thing I’ve seen on this channel in a a week.

    by Dave Wagner on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:09 pm

  128. I’ve never said that we won’t win with jones as a closer. never. although, i can’t b.s. you….i’m starting to have my doubts….but i’ve never flip flopped.

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:11 pm

  129. “You do understand that we play again 19 hours right? 4 runs up. Do you waist what remains of your shelled bullpen for a game that you should under almost any circumstance on plant earth win?”

    -When Nixon came up,the game was tied. We could have still won if we’d gotten out of the inning.

    by Ben on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:11 pm

  130. I understand what you’re saying dead rabbit, but you don’t manage for what may occur in 19 hours. His job is to manage this game, which he didn’t. Period. Loss on Jim Leyland.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:12 pm

  131. There’s really only a couple of options, and they all pretty much suck. You bring up Andrew Miller and throw him into a Zumaya, high leverage role. Or…you bring up Miller and put Bonderman or Verlander in that same type of role. None of those is a good option. But this isn’t 1911, the longest most of our starters is going to make it is 7 innings, and that just is not going to get it done regardless of how many runs are put up on the board. They’re in salvage mode now, as long as there are assurances that Miller remains a starter once Zumaya and Rodney return, I don’t see any other choice. You HAVE to have a swing and miss pitcher in the bullpen. We have 3 guys that are capable of that, problem is they’re all starters. One of them’s got to go down there for the next month or 2 until we get healthy.

    by KS on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:13 pm

  132. I’m in seclusion

    by Chris in Nashville on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:13 pm

  133. Sorry rabbit, I thought it was you who said that during another game earlier this week. Must’ve been someone else, then.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:13 pm

  134. Correction: we were winning when Nixon came up.

    by Ben on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:13 pm

  135. Leylands fault. It’s pretty easy to see after 40 pitches a guy like Jones is gonna end up losing it. Amazing loss. Amazing.

    It’s too bad too because the offense was great tonight and I was relally happy to see a guy like Infante come through a couple times.

    There were alot of positive things that happened in this game, but the loss and how we lost overshadows it all..

    This team isn’t done until we’re mathimatically eliminated from the postseason mind all of you.

    by Jim on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:15 pm

  136. You know things are bad when we are pining for the return of Rodney.

    by Tram Fan on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:16 pm

  137. KS, who’s coming off the roster to make room? Mesa? He’s not going to get cut until probably at least Rodney comes back (on the 5th in Texas). Also, Miller’s more of a groundball pitcher then he is a strike out pitcher. Elugio de la Cruz is a strikeout pitcher. But again, our roster flexibility is limited.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:17 pm

  138. I find the posting about the magic being gone to be dead wrong. And I should no dead, I’m the dead rabbit. If you can’t see an injured team playing their asses off right now, you don’t know baseball. Remember the Alamo!!!!!Think about ’03,04 or 05. Think of the attitude. Thats what a team looks like with no magic.

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:19 pm

  139. Right now, you can throw darts at the bullpen and waive any one of them without a second thought. They won’t. But they could.

    by Kurt on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:25 pm

  140. Do I think Jones should be yanked from the closer role, No. With our current bullpen situation he is about the best we have.

    BUT, the game was lost tonight when he walked Trot Nixon intentionally.

    Let’s look at Nixon’s career numbers verses lefties:

    .214/.307/.323

    Bring in Seay, let him try to get Nixon out. Cleveland wasn’t going to pinchhit for him. They had no one on the bench. If Seay does get him out, it picks up the whole team.
    -Sam

    by Sam on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:28 pm

  141. Somehow I feel this game is a turning point to the season. At some point, the players themselves are going to stop playing if Leyland doesn’t snap out this. If you’re a player, how can you lose this one without thinking “no matter what you do you can’t win?” Put up 11 runs? Not enough. Four run lead twice in late innings? Not enough. Leyland’s like a deer in the headlights…who really thinks we can split this series now? This was a demoralizing loss. If we leave Jacobs field 6 1/2 out… I’m calling it a year. That’s not to say the Tiger’s couldn’t play .675 baseball from here on out and win the division/wildcard… but no friggin’ way with the management/pitching I’ve seen so far. We’ll be lucky to play .500 here on out.

    Why even put Jones in there in the eighth? Ledezma was pitching very strong. There was a four run lead (the first four run lead)…two outs. It was Ledezma’s inning to close… and I think he would have got the third out. Jones is SO hittable. I was saying to myself: instant run the minute they pulled Ledezma.

    And then in the ninth… Even Rod and Mario (who have nothing but glowing things to say about Leyland and Jones) were saying Jones was out of gas. I knew the instant they didn’t pull him (at that point the score was 11-10) that the Indians were going to win. I could have got a base hit off Jones at that point. WHAT IN THE HELL IS LEYLAND THINKING?????????????????????? And to respond to Dead Rabbit: I’d rather have the DMV clerk to come in and try to fight the fire if the firefighers are comotose — or fixiated and unconscious because they failed to put out the fire. This is absolutley the worst loss I’ve seen in a LONG, LONG time. I just can’t stop thinking about it.

    by T Smith on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:28 pm

  142. Kurt, the only reasonable relievers I can see arguing for releasing are Mesa and Grilli. I’m not prepared to completely give up a LH that can throw mid 90′s with plus breaking stuff, in Wil Ledezma, for free.

    by Mike R on Jun 1, 2007 at 11:44 pm

  143. Billfer, do you think umpires behind the plate will be replaced by something else? Camera’s, computers, etc.

    by Kathy on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:00 am

  144. Bobby Seay was nothing more than a guy who had a good run this year after failing in the past. Tim Byrdak, I have no faith in in the long run, but I am more than thrilled to be currently wrong and hope I continue to be wrong. Ledezma, no, I don’t want to cut ties, but right now, I’m not really feeling it.

    I didn’t mean to bring Zach Miner into all of this. But honestly, the 3 aforementioned guys, take away any of them, you’re not exactly losing a jewel there.

    by Kurt on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:22 am

  145. aside from the obvious tonite…if you look at the current situation with our pitchers…could the problems have anything to do with the pitching coach?? opinions??

    by charlie on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:57 am

  146. I agree that Leyland should not have kept Jones out there after he gave up that double to Peralta. But the question is, is Bobby Seay that much better? Tim Byrdak would have been a better option, but the problem is that he was unavailable because he pitched two nights in the previous day’s game. So either way, Leyland was taking a big risk.

    I don’t think this is the pitching coach’s fault, especially the way the bullpen performed last year. This bullpen meltdown has more to do with the bullpen roles going from being well defined, with Rodney and Zumaya as setup men, to having no defined roles at all. Leyland is tossing random guys in there as setup men hoping that some combination will work. Add to that the fact that the starters have not eaten up enough innings for him, and that’s a recipe for disaster. Hopefully Rodney’s return will stabilize the situation somewhat, but I now wonder if the Tigers should perhaps keep an eye on Troy Percival and take a risk on him until Zumaya finally returns.

    Please read my blog (just click my username to go to it). Any comments are greatly appreciated!

    by Tribefan2006 on Jun 2, 2007 at 3:33 am

  147. It’s hard for starters to eat up innings when Jim Leyland is taking out a Chad Durbin at 88 pitches through 6 innings which directly refutes his claims that pitchers need to go deep in games. And there was a day game in April when Bonderman could’ve come out and started the next inning. He then used Jones in that same game despite the fact that jones pitched less then 18 hours earlier (day game after a night game) which resulted in a loss.

    I don’t think tonight’s meltdown was from undefined roles; just a spent Todd Jones not getting the hook like he should’ve. Leyland likes to go with the matchups and has seemingly over-managed since Rodney went down and tonight he sits on the bench with that old man blank stare like “huh? They tied the game? Since when?”

    by Mike R on Jun 2, 2007 at 4:11 am

  148. Stop suggesting/pretending Rodney’s return will help….he’s part of the problem!

    by Tram Fan on Jun 2, 2007 at 4:27 am

  149. No truer words were ever spoken: People seem surprised when Leyland does something strange, but remember, he’s below .500 for his career. He’s definitely not Tony LaRussa or Sparky. I mean, I like him, but he is what he is. A great motivator and sub-par strategist.
    Except for this: It’s hard for starters to eat up innings when Jim Leyland is taking out a Chad Durbin at 88 pitches through 6 innings which directly refutes his claims that pitchers need to go deep in games

    by Stephen on Jun 2, 2007 at 4:36 am

  150. Something’s got to give. When will the bleeding end?

    I’ve never been a huge Jones fan and last night’s performance is just unacceptable.

    11 f-in runs and we lose!!! Come on. Is Leyland in a f-in coma?!

    Leyland needs to make some changes and fast.

    by Motor City Monk on Jun 2, 2007 at 8:24 am

  151. I don’t think pulling Jones is such a slam dunk decision. We all know Jones is NOT a 2 inning closer (not even a 1 1/3 inning closer), but still, Jones is the best guy in that pen right now.

    Knowing that the team really needed a win, can you really fault Leyland for not wanting to put the game in the hands of a guy (Seay) who barely made the opening day roster? I think the bottom line is that Leyland was in a position that Tram was all-to-familiar with: all his options sucked.

    BTW, the intentional walk was certainly ballsy, but I think it was just a matter of playing to win. Let’s be honest, if that game goes into extra innings, there was a 0% chance of the Tigers winning. Our bullpen is too weak for a 9 inning game, let alone 10+. I think Leyland just decided that, at that point, our only reasonable hope to win the game was for Jones to get Barfield out.

    Tip your cap to him, Barfield got the job done.

    by Jeff M on Jun 2, 2007 at 9:39 am

  152. Three Quick Questions:

    1. When Jim Leyland picks up the phone to get an arm up in the bullpen does he have to dial 911?

    2. When Kenny Rogers and Joel Zumaya return where will the Tigers be in the standings?

    and

    3. When Rogers and Zumaya return will their return be enough to give this struggling team a boost?

    by Andrew on Jun 2, 2007 at 9:44 am

  153. 1. No, when you dial 911, someone will usually respond.

    2. Hopefully, ahead of KC.

    3. Certainly. It might be too little, too late, but they’ll definitely make this team competitive again.

    by Jeff M on Jun 2, 2007 at 10:20 am

  154. So, Having slept on it:

    HOW, HOW, can you leave in a “closer” long enough to plate 7 runs off pitches he threw? (Hint: you can’t, should never, etc., etc.)

    I know the first two were Wil’s, but Jones is a closer coming in with two outs. Even just giving up 1 there in the 8th would have been servicable. But, .. nevermind .. I’m at a total loss.

    What a loss.

    by Chris Y. on Jun 2, 2007 at 10:34 am

  155. lets face the facts a good part of the reason the tigers lost to an inferior team in the world series was because of the pitching blunders and granted the pitching staff is banged up it won’t make a difference in october 07 because the blunders have and will continue until some changes are made in that lousy bullpen. does anyone know how the tiger bullpen stacks up against the rest of the leauge? my guess not very well.

    by tiger fan on Jun 2, 2007 at 11:01 am

  156. I hear a lot of blame being put on leylands shoulders,he can only manage with what he’s got.that’s why they call him the MANAGER!!! the players have to play the game and perform at the highest level that million dollar contracts can give and the tigers are not doing that,especially the pitching staff.

    by tiger fan on Jun 2, 2007 at 11:07 am

  157. There may be a slim argument for leaving Jones in. But I see no argument for walking the go-ahead run. If it were Hafner, OK. But it was Trot Nixon. I don’t see how walking Nixon increases your odds of preventing the tying run by any significant margin.

    And the deck certainly would have been stacked against us in extra innings, but the top of the order would have been up in the 10th and those guys have been hitting off just about every pitcher this year.

    by Kyle J on Jun 2, 2007 at 11:38 am

  158. Danny Knobler wrote:
    …This was a win Leyland did all he could to preserve, including calling on Jones in an eighth-inning save situation for the first time this year….

    as the kids say: w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r.

    he needs to be sent down to the toledo blade. i’m guessing they wouldn’t have him.

    by Stephen on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:22 pm

  159. I don’t see how walking Nixon increases your odds of preventing the tying run by any significant margin.

    It got the righty-righty matchup, a force at three bases, and a less experienced batter. I wouldn’t call that insignificant.

    Is it enough of a difference to merit putting the go-ahead run on in 99% of the cases? Nope. In this case, Leyland figured it did. It made sense to me when he did it. Risky as hell, but it was a situation that called for some risk.

    And the deck certainly would have been stacked against us in extra innings, but the top of the order would have been up in the 10th and those guys have been hitting off just about every pitcher this year.

    And who would we have pitched in the 10th? They had superior hitters and superior pitchers. You don’t win battles of attrition in a situation like that. You have to play for the quick, fluke victory.

    by Jeff M on Jun 2, 2007 at 2:20 pm

  160. As someone else pointed out, Delucci bats left-handed, too. If the goal is to create a good pitching match-up, you bring in Seay.

    You can’t just assume we lose in the 10th. I know that’s how it feels to all of us right now, but you can’t manage based on that assumption. Ledezma came in and pitched well for most of two innings. There no reason Seay or someone else couldn’t have done the same.

    Well, on to tonight. Time for Leyland to show his ability to bounce back from an ugly game.

    by Kyle J on Jun 2, 2007 at 3:34 pm

  161. Wow. That game was a shocker. I know Jones isn’t the best closer in the world, but Leyland did botch that call. On a more positive note: At least the Tigers are playing well considering they have three pitchers and a couple fielders out. To produce 11 runs with a number of bench players is pretty impressive and shows the depth of the team Dombrowski and Leyland have created. So there is that good point. Still lots of season left to play too.

    by Ed in OR on Jun 2, 2007 at 4:28 pm

  162. Tigerfan:

    Don’t say that Leyland can only manage what he has, he’s obviously got some input on who’s on the team. Do you think Dombrowski would have gotten Neifi or brought in Mesa if Leyland wasn’t familiar with them? Don’t kid yourself, Dombrowski’s track record is light years ahead of Leyland’s.

    by Anthony on Jun 2, 2007 at 5:55 pm

  163. I’ve slept on it and still maintain that Leyland made the right call. As another poster said, we were doomed in a war of attrition. And expanding a war of attrition into Saturday would be moronic. When looking at all the variables, including the next game and the fact that Jones just got done running his mouth how he is the “leader,” the ball was in Jones’ court. Get it done for us big man. Get us out of that game with at least our car door and bumper still attached. Step up. For once, in this important game, we are going to you in the 8th. We gave you 4 more runs. Step up. Step up. Step up.

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 2, 2007 at 6:07 pm

  164. Anthony,
    Me bad you are correct I just hate to see a manager take all the heat for some mediocre roll players at best I still say the manager can’t play the game he has to use what is available even if he did have input to
    thier aquisition its up to the players to give 110% and up to the manager to know when to use them or bench them

    by tigerfan on Jun 2, 2007 at 6:11 pm

  165. As for those here that say I shouldn’t obsess about the closer “role”, even hinting that the role in some ways doesn’t exist but then, in the same sentence, act outraged that Jones had to throw 30 something pitches are actually contradicting themselves.

    Jones was not asked to do the impossible.

    The Dead Rabbit is starting to annoy, well, the Dead Rabbit..so I’m moving on and gearing up for this game.

    by Dead Rabbit on Jun 2, 2007 at 6:17 pm

  166. [...] An auspicious start to the month as Todd Jones gets pulverized and Jim Leyland just lets him take as the Tigers lose a game they had no business losing. [...]

    by The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Detroit Tigers Weblog 2007 Year in Review on Dec 30, 2007 at 11:17 pm

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About the Site Detroit Tigers Weblog was launched in July, 2001. At the time it was the only Tigers blog and it resided as a blogspot page. There were multiple authors and it mostly consisted of links to the rare times the Tigers were mentioned in the national media. We only had a few dozen […]more →

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