PREGAME: The Tigers, after taking 3 of 4 from the Yankees, head to Kauffman Stadium to take on the 4th place Royals. The Tigers looking to build on the momentum of their first series sweep in eons will send out a line up that features both Timo Perez and Ramon Santiago. See, this is the danger in having Perez on the roster is that Leyland will use him, and bat him 3rd!.
Luckily the Tigers are going up against Brian Bannister so it’s not like it will be tough. Bannister hasn’t allowed more than 3 runs in a game since July 16th, whlie pitching 7 or more innings in 5 of his last 6 starts. Left handed batters have a pretty distinct advantage against Bannister with a 769 OPS against compared to .580 for righties. Of course that probably includes a bunch of guys who normally have OPS’s of 769 or better regardless of the pitcher, which the Tigers don’t seem to possess short of Grandy and Guillen.
For the Tigers it will be Nate Robertson who has pitched better of late including a bad luck loss against the Yankees (crazy hops, crazy routes to fly balls) and a no luck no-decision against the Indians when he allowed 4 baserunners in 8 2/3 innings.
Game Time 8:05
DET @ KCR, Tuesday, August 28, 2007 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com
POSTGAME: I caught the first 2 innings, and got back just in time to see the 8th and 9th. So working mostly off the boxscore I see:
- Sixteen hits for the good guys. That’s good. Offense is still producing.
- Only 3 runs. I’ll have to take a look at the play by play but oh yeah there it is…
- #9 Ramon Santiago – 3 for 4, #1 Curtis Granderson/Ryan Raburn 2 for 4 plus a walk, #2 Polanco – 3 for 5, #3 Timo Perez 1 for 5, #4 Ordonez 4 for 5. One of these things is not like the others.
- But with 13 runners left on base it can’t all be Timo Perez’s fault, but he certainly gets a chunk.
- Nate Robertson, not so much in touch with his inner strike zone with 4 walks in 4 1/3 innings and 92 pitches, only 53 for strikes.
- Jason Grilli was good, again, and kept the team in the game with 3 2/3 perfect innings. He also save the rest of the pen on a night when the starter didn’t help the cause.
A disappointing result for sure and thanks for the active comment thread.
Comments
347 responses to “Game 132: Tigers at Royals”
That lineup looks like swiss cheese, and smells like Lindberger. I hope Nate can pitch nine shut-out innings tonight.
omg. just when i think leyland woke up, by hitting thames 3rd instead of casey, he goes and pulls this….
Here’s hoping DD can pull off a trade for a certain hirsute catcher currently plying his trade in Oakland.
In these situations, my first instinct is to give Leyland the benefit of the doubt. Then I remember the Neifi era.
Santiago I can understand – he’s done alright in the chances he’s been given this year. But Perez has had his chances and flopped miserably.
Jim, if you need any more proof that veterans tend to be overrated, I give you the LA Dodgers – who will miss the playoffs this year because of their stern refusal to play their talented young players instead of worn out retreads.
What does Marcus Thames have to do to get in the lineup everyday? He’s slugging .486 against right-handers (with admittedly low BA and OBP–but again 1 HR every 15 ABs covers a multitude of sins).
I forgot to add… when I remember the Neifi era, I throw up.
Give me a break, Perez batting third? I guess the rationale is that hitting him in front of Maggs will get him some fastballs, but I do not have a good feeling about this. Nate has been great the last few starts, but it’s not realistic to expect him to keep turning in those types of performances. I can appreciate that Leyland values defense, but sometimes I think he overvalues it.
Why wouldn’t you bat Timo 3rd? He’s been hitting a mean .213 since 2005. This is one of the situations where you don’t want to root the team, but if Perez gets two bloop hits, it’ll just be enough Mr. Smoky to start him again. So.. i want the team to win, but Perez go 0-5. I just can’t believe he’s back in the majors, much less batting #3.
meant to say where you don’t want to root against the team..
Timo Perez!?
3rd!!??
It was a questionable call bringing him back to begin with but to stick him in the lineup at the 3 spot smacks of desperation. I realize he’s got to get every lefty on the team in against Bannister, but why don’t you put your proven powerless veteran (Casey) in that slot versus your never-has-been powerless veteran?
Frankly, I’d rather have Shelton in the 3 hole. These games are too damn impotant to be screwing around like this. I hope to God Leyland can pull another rabbit out of his hat with this.
Go Tigers!
is this team trying for a better draft position? they just play well vs the yankees and we get perez and casey at dh (although batting 7th is better than third) and rayburn and thames sit? are they tired? do their contracts call for tuesdays off? is leyland trying to build momentum or kill it? i know leyland plays guys when they are called up but hey…rayburn must be wondering if he is with the right organization. can you imagine if neifi wasn’t suspended…we might feature the perez twins. i’ll bet maggs is pi%%*d.
i would rather have a fiftysomething larry herndon play left field on arthritic knees. or bobby higginson.
Neo-Neifi.
Billfer’s pregame and the comments bemoaning Jimmy Ballgame’s use of Timo are hilarious.
Stephen’s right, we have to hope the team wins but Timo manages to play his way out of the lineup immediately. Knowing Leyland, that will be nearly impossible because for the latter to happen he’s gonna have to go hitless with several Ks, a GIDP, and make 3 errors. Tough stuff for any team to overcome.
Oh, and he’ll also have to crap his pants on a swing and miss and accidentally hit the button the sends nukes flying to China.
i understand resting pudge on night-day games but aside from that your best 9 gotta play every day. the thoroughbreds never get tired and they give you the best chance to win. the indians are already up 3-0…we don’t have a 6 game lead…the best 9 have to play every day.
Ridiculous lineup. Then again, should we expect anything less from Leyland? Strategy, lineups, game management are not his forte.
We are foolishly optimistic if we think Perez will “not hit” his way out of the lineup. Leyland insisted on running Neifi out there on a consistent basis, despite the sub-300 OPS. I have a geeling Timo will get his ABs.
The best we can hope for is an injury or some bizarre Neifi-like positive drug test suspension.
Cleveland up 3-0 on Minny, bottom 4.
Let’s real-time blog Timo’s at bats!
Why is Timo batting 3rd?
Leyland: because that’s where i want to hit him
“Why is Timo Perez hitting 3rd?”
“Because that’s where I want to hit him.”
I hate these responses from Leyland. Good response though considering it’s indefensible.
And Timo just hit into a double play that wasn’t called a double play. Well done!
AT least Timo can run, he gives Maggs an AB
Yeah, he sure looked out to me.
Leyland can come across as the petulant dictator of a bananna republic sometimes.
not even a real banana republic. a bananna republic. which is the fruit equivalent of the faux crab meat in bad sushi.
Basically it’s “I don’t have a reason just playing one of my many hunches that just don’t work out but no one wants to ever call me on it because i do nothing wrong and god forbid a beat writer go against anything I say” when he says “That’s where I want to hit him.” Give a real reason. Justify it.
But I don’t blame him. Timo shouldn’t be up when we have Granderson, Magglio, Maybin, Thames, Raburn who are all OFers.
I will go the pro-Timo route, just to be different.
I think it’s safe to say he started this rally.
Nope, can’t do it. He still sucks.
Was doing some quick figuring to compare the detroit and cleveland schedules from here on out and see if there was any merit to the “feel” i get just by looking at the schedules that tells me that deteroits schedule is slightly easier. In terms of pythagorean wins, and excluding the games against each other, Detroit will face a team for each of the 28 games with an average of 61.3 pyth. wins (standard dev = 6.2). In the same number of games, Clevelands opponent will average 63.1 wins (standard dev = 6.8). I’m not really sure how big of a difference this should be considered, but I do think it shows that if anything Detroit will face a slightly easier path, and they will more consistantly play against those easier teams.
Leyland doesn’t have to justify anything to anyone other than Dombro and Ilitch. Like it’s anything new for a coach or manager to offer a detailed explanation of every decision he makes.
And for the most part, other than the most diehard fanatics (people on this site for example) people don’t care. It’s not like he’s sending troops into Iraq.
Not to offer.
If there’s only one reason — amoung 99 reasons why Perez should NOT bat third — it’s because we have some speed/base running ability in front of Ordonez’s bat. Why didn’t Perez attempt a steal? We could have ourselves a 1-0 game right now. In case Leyland hasn’t read the newspapers lately, we’re 2 1/2 games back. It’s time to get aggressive. Perez should have tried to steal before Ordonez got his hit.
I’m very disappointed in this lineup. And not impressed so far with the way Jim Leyland managed the our first scoring opportunity.
Rod Allen: Some of you may be wondering what’s the use of tagging up and going to third.
Nope! Not wondering because this isn’t the first game I’ve watched.
robertson is a sharp as a crayon so far
See, now he’s closer to home Stephen. It’s easier to score from 3rd than it is from 2nd. Also, the round thing the pitcher is throwing around is called a ball.
I have to watch on Gameday, are the pitch locations accurate? It looks like Nate is all over the place…
The pitcher is the guy on the hillock at the center of the diamond that is formed by the 3 “bases” and “home plate.”
Anyone else finding Rod Allen a bit stale? The things that were once funny have just become a bit annoying to me.
Wait, I said stuff after that. I suck at the internet.
Stephen: that was funny and I thought the same thing. I mean really? The viewers deserve more cred than that.
They need to make a t shirt with both Neifi and Timo on it…Id wear that in my casket
I guess we shouldn’t complain too much. i was watching the Royals-Indians game on Sunday and the Indians announcers were awful. I thought i’d stumbled on to a cable access broadcast of the Cape Cod league.
I got a bad feeling about this game. That first time through the lineup was terrible and Nate looks pretty rough here.
On the other side of the spectrum, the Yankees and Boston are tied at 2 in the 5th. Definitely feels like the playoffs in NYC.
I saw a Indian’s game with the Cleveland crew and I thought they were solid. Not the greatest, but not Hawk Harrelson.
Hmm. Rod talking about Alex Gordon not being ready for the majors, camera shoots to Maybin. Someone in the production truck has a sense of irony.
nice peg!
Jeter. Solo shot. 3-2
There’s a direct correlation between the amount of sober you are not and how funny rod and allen are.
I agree that the Cleveland guys aren’t that bad. Their tone and delivery sucks but I think they talk about a game intelligently. And their not total homers.
The Angels guys are pretty bad.
Meanwhile, the Yankees have about 5 different color guys. Singleton, Flaherty, Leiter, O’Neill and Murcer. They need a broadcasting salary cap.
Hahaha! Judging from that sentence Jim, you must be finding Rod absolutely hilarious right now.
You like college football?
i do like college football.
it’s a lot of fun.
it’s almost haiku!
This may turn into a long and infuriating game
I’m about to achieve total Timosity.
OMG, Bannister is so slow. Drags out every pitch.
Oh man. I’m losing it over that haiku.
Joey:
I have the morning off tommorw and am taking full advantage.
btw, as ive saidbefore I love that rod and mario are homers!
Timosity can lead to franchise malaise and, in some cases, a ballclub falling out of contention. Timo should not be handled by pregnant woman or ardent fans. If Timosity continues, consult your doctor or feel free to heckle manager on next homestand.
Timo Ruth really squaring up the baseball.
Proving once again we can work a lineup better than Leyland?
My god, TIMO?
btw Joey I gotta calm down over here cuz u may not hear from me the rest o the game if all my posts end up moderated lol!
Manny Ramirez wears a tent to play baseball.
timo was coming up in sept anyway…i bet we see more of him than we want…if i was a struggling no talent i would sure want leyland in my corner…i might get a career from his managing.
When I see crap like Timo Perez batting 3rd in a pennant race I remember that Leyland is below .500 for his career….then it all makes sense.
Well, I don’t think Timo is going to be the deciding factor in this game. Maybe, Nate, though.
***I got a bad feeling about this game. That first time through the lineup was terrible and Nate looks pretty rough here***
How can you not feel bad about this game give the lineup?
This lineup is like a fuel line with air bubbles in it… a lot of sputtering. I think if we score two runs we’ll be doing the lineup justice.
Nate settling down is good
You think one of us could sneak into the dugout in a Tiger uniform and find ourselves playing batting 3rd and play LF? Somebody should try that.
Jim? You got an off day next time the Tigers are in town?
Alright, I’ll put myself out there and defend Timo. Not because I think he’s some sort of savior or even will have long-term success in the bigs, but because I mostly because I am so sick and tired of all these negative and pessimistic posts, on this topic and just about every other topic over the last month. Sometimes I read the game comments and get confused whether this is a tigers or indians blog.
So here goes– Timo has been hitting pretty well over the last couple months. .309/.356/.472 on the season. That puts him 7th in the league in average, and top 20 in slugging and OBP. He leads whole international league in total hits (151), second in doubles (39), and top 25 in homeruns (13), putting him near the top of the league in total bases (231). Add to that 69 RBI’s in 122 games and its a good looking season.
Now I don’t really want to hear back from all the negative nancy’s out there saying that these numbers don’t translate to the majors. His big league resume doesnt look like these splits. But that is besides the point. He hasn’t put up numbers like this in AAA prior to this season either, and the sample size of experience this season with the Tigers is too small to extrapolate from. Anyways, he’s not here to drive in runs or hit homeruns. Offensively his job is to get on base. That simple.
For you Shelton lovers, please give me one reason why he belongs here over Timo? If you actually believe that you either a)havent looked at Timo’s #’s, b) erroneously believe that 3 games constitutes a sufficient sample size, or c)have been smoking something and still think its April, 2006.
Have at it.
bwaaaahahahaa nice one there by buck.
Kathy, the thing is putting Timo is just putting the team at a terrific disadvantage. Different players will have ups and downs, but if you start a no-hoper in third slot that makes you think tim doaghy is managing the tigers.
Jason, you don’t read enough of my comments obviously, as I am the town clown.
Trade Maybin!
Sorry Jason, no sale! I’ll call your argument the Hessman Principle.
Twinkies need to step it up…
Jason,
Bold.
How come Buck didn’t wait to see if Pudge’s bunt would roll foul?
And if Timo’s job is to get on base, well, he sucks at it. .301 obp as a major leaguer.
Timo needs to step into a pitch.
I’ve never seen a foul stop right on the line like that. Weird, but I’ll take it.
I have to say though Jason, you’d know you were at an Indians blog when you encountered a bunch of negative posts about the Indians play the past couple of months.
And Timo’s oba over his last major league 500 abs is roughly .278. That has to be worst in the majors in that time period for an outfielder.
RE: Al Leiter and the Yankees broadcasters please refer to the most recent entry at Fire Joe Morgan
http://www.firejoemorgan.com
” I was watching the YES broadcast of the Yanks / Tigers game on Saturday, with Wang pitching. I’ve heard that Wang is much better from the windup than the stretch, and this seems true based on what I’ve seen. However, discussing this, Kay and Al Leiter had this exchange (paraphasing):
Kay: “…And when Wang pitches from the windup, his ERA is .53! That’s like a high school ERA!” (I don’t really understand what this means, but whatever). “His ERA from the stretch, though, is almost 16.00! That difference is ‘UGE! So Wang really has trouble pitching from the stretch.”
Leiter: (not sure if he was just dodging Kay as much as he could or not) “Yeah, Greg Maddux told me once that you should always warm up from the stretch, since that’s how you’ll be throwing your most important pitches…”
Then Kay basically repeats how amazing the large difference between Wang’s stretch and windup ERAs is.
When nobody is on base, his ERA is small. And when runners are on base, his ERA is high. Wow.
You heard it there first, people. The number of solo homers Chien Ming Wang gives up is smaller than the number of runs scored on him by all other methods combined.”
Rod, why do they have to find Billy Butler a position? He’s the first big time full-time DH prospect. Why put him in the field when he’s a bad fielder?
4-3 tribe.
I wish we had bully butler..
Eh, quit ripping on Rod. Him and Mario are a lot better than who we could be stuck with elsewhere. It’s gotta be tough to come up with enough good chatter to fill approx. 3 hours a night for roughly 155 games. Give him a break.
Hahaha. I like how Jason dismisses the fact that Triple-A numbers don’t translate to the Majors. They don’t. Ask the countless examples of Triple-A all stars that can’t hack it in the Majors. There is a reason he was signed to a minor league deal and placed in Triple-A. Guys like him, Mike Hessman, etc are just roster fillers that provide depth that you don’t want to have to use.
Not to mention the fact that we have 5 outfielders on this 25 man roster right now, rendering Timo Perez useless, minus the fact that he’s going to be taking AB’s away from better players.
That little 80-81 mph whatever nate is throwing inside to rightys is awesome
Jason, I’m not saying bringing Shelton up would send the Tigers immediately to the post-season, but at least there is an April 2006 in his career. If you’re looking for lightning in a bottle, who is more likely to deliver?
I’d feel bad about ripping Rod except for the fact that he is making at least 350 grand a year and he’s probably not monitoring this web site.
Good lord. Petit has thrown 120 pitches through 6. I guess he’s done for the night.
Mike: Case in point Virgil Vazquez. Can’t seem to do well in the bigs
Stepehn: I stil say it’d be alotta fun to watch a tiggers game with a beer and ROd
That was strike three. He gave that pitch to bannister buh
This is terrifying.
Oh, well that’s just not good. man, sober is just not gonna work tonight
I predict right now Timo will hit a game winning grand slam.
Mark it, count it, quote it. You heard it here first.
Why do I feel like I’m talking to myself? WHere are you guys. 🙁
I just got back from a gathering sans TVs, looked at the game situation, then looked at the box score. This lineup is inexcusable. I’m not one to bash managers, but this lineup was just begging to be shut down by a hot pitcher. The team is in a pennant race and they put a lousy hitter in the 3 slot and another one playing short, thereby pushing Thames, Maybin, and Raburn out of the lineup. Absolutely inexcusable.
Is it just me or have the umps been squeezing our guys lately? Maybe I’m just being a homer, but there were at least two strikes there that were not called.
that first strike on grandy was an absolute joke too..
Time for Timo(!) to shine!
Huge to answer right back this inning
wow, rod allen just praised grandy for going to third from second on a single.
I’d take a double play here from timo.
Wow. Just wow. I’m gonna go hang myself ttyl.
Timo…ugh
Oh Timo, thank you for disappointing me in my meager request.
Special welcome to Timo Perez the new Black Hole of Suck in the batting order.
Hey leyland, how’s that batting a horrible player in the #3 slot going?
I miss Omar Infante…
Yeah, I gotta say Thames would have had a better chance of getting that run in.
Speaking of whom…what must be going through his head?
Or even C-Mo…anything instead of Perez. Perez’s do not tend to hit well wearing the old english D
Crap. Cleveland just added another 2 runs.
This is just horrible execution. First and third NO OUTS… and we can’t cash in. Ohh, I forgot about the HUGE hole in the 3 spot. We can’t even get in the second run.
Nice job, Jimmy. Nice Job. It feels good to fall 3 1/2 games back.
C’mon Ivan.
Gonna load em up…
For Pudge.
What do we have in this lineup, 3 good hitters?
Did Pudge just swing at the first pitch?
timo perez may be the worst major leaguer to play for the tigers since, uh, rod allen.
Games not over yet now…
But really atleat Thames would have put the ball in the air.
Oh and Pudge Cerano.
Ivan the Terrible
Disgusting.
New scouting report on the Detroit Tigers:
Walk Polonco, Ordonez, and Guillen. Pitch to everybody else. (So what if walk the bases loaded? You’ll get all the outs you need from the rest of the lineup).
Man. what happened to this game
Twins are making it interesting in the 9th. I just switched over.
Tyner just laid down a great bunt for a base hit. One out.
Ok, I apologize to Rod. My emotions got away from me. he did have a magical 9 for 27 streak in 84.
Double.
2nd and 3rd with one out in the 9th.
ha ha. but you know what I’d kill someone (literally) to go 9/27 in the bigs.
Hey, he got a ring too dont forget
top 5 batters. what do you notice?
C. Granderson CF 2-3
P. Polanco 2B 2-3
T. Perez LF 0-3
M. Ordonez RF 2-3
C. Guillen 1B 1-2
And, Pudge with a bases loaded situation grounds out softly on the first pitch.
Was I supposed to be surprised we didn’t score with first and third no outs?
And..wait, why was Granderson going home on a groundout to the pitcher?
Honestly, if I’m Marcus Thames I walk at the end of the season. There’s no reason for him to not be playing everyday, be it at 1st or in LF. There has to be somewhere else out there where he can get 400 AB’s a year. Detroit clearly is not that place.
Morneau just struck out looking to end the game.
I hate the Indians.
Actually, i was more channeling Rod’s career 11-50 with a .260 slugging %. Tres timo.
well nate doesnt have it.
I couldn’t agree more Mike R. Thames has really been treated like a turd.
I was just saying to my wife, ‘i don’t know why he’s leaving nate in against a righty that has a bit of power’..
then bam. Grilli was warmed up. Mind boggling.
This is classic 07 Tigers; studs before a sold out crowd, lose interest against Royals a night later. Guess what? Games count just as much!
Annnnnnnddddddd that is why Billy Butler doesn’t need a position. Seriously, he plays for KC but I absolutely love watching this kid hit. Just 21 and he can flat out MASH.
Also, I don’t think Allen got a ring from the 84 team. Did he play for them in the playoffs that year? baseball-reference isn’t loading for me right now. I know the ring he does wear is from the 01 Diamondbacks team.
Jabba. Looking tough.
I hope the Tigers sign a prospect named Yoda.
And Billy Butler, AKA God, makes his presence known.
3.5 games back.
Leyland has a freakish obsession with fielding: witness Santiago and Neifi playing ahead of Infante this year and last. I’m sure Leyland, rightfully to a degree, thinks Thames sucks as an outfielder and Maybin has butchered his left field audition, so he plays Timo. I don’t agree, but to bat him third is literally borderline negligence. It defies any logic. There is no case that can be made. Literally no case.
Butler has absolutely killed the Tigers this year. If he only had to face Detroit, he would be A-Rod.
Eric, we’re hitting Timo Perez 3rd in the heat of a Division Title race. Logic clearly went out the window. Then again, it is Grilli, so I’m surprised that Leyland didn’t come running out to carry him in from the bullpen.
I think this is the year, the Yankees get their karmic revenge for all those division winning seasons that ended with losing to wild card teams. I dn’t the Red Sox can beat them.
Of course, there’s the Mariners. But i’m not gonna believe they’re a playoff team until they’ve clinched it.
I sure wish Nate could put back-to-back solid pitching starts for once.
What a freaking disaster.
Okay fellow sufferers and experts, tell me what to do. I have until Friday to give Mike Ilitch my playoff ticket money to hold for a month or so while the Tigers give games away to teams they should beat. Do I ride the Hope Train and get ripped off for the interest, or do I look at this situation realistically and tell them to sell the tickets to someone else and I’ll see what I can get in the event of a miracle?
Even if he thinks Thames is terrible in LF, it’s one of the least important defensive positions on the diamond. Dmitri Young most likely will be in the OF for the Nationals next year, so it’s not reserved for the premiere athletes. Put him in so he can homer ever 14 AB’s.
Unbelievable. Really there isn’t anything to say.
Stephen’s comment about Donaghy is looking less like a joke by the game. Did they vet Leyland before they hired him. Dude was probably spending his winters in Vegas while he wasn’t managing.
if we lose tonight it will be on nate not perez although just having him in the line up bothers me a lot.
Mike:
Ive seen him with it on, most recently in an interview he had with sheffield. It was huge and hard to miss lol
I think Leyland is starting Timo so we will stop carping abt Casey and Inge. Diabolical!
Yeah and Manny Ramirez has been holding down the fort in Boston for years now. He made another Manny being Manny showcase of ineptitude in the field tonight against the Yanks.
Also, let’s not forget Old Man Bonds the past couple seasons in San Fran.
And Inge’s one day flirtation with slump ending appears to be over.
I know it’s kinda bush to say this but the Zone has been garbage tonight. The umping this year overall has been horrid.
Inge with a check swing strike out. Shocking.
My new favorite answer to any question I deign to answer:
“Because that’s where I want to hit him.”
Officer: “Excuse me, sir, can you tell me why you were going 70 mph in a 35 mph zone?”
Me: “Because that’s where I want to hit him.”
Girlfriend: “What have done for me LATELY?”
Me: “Because that’s where I want to hit him.”
Kenneth Starr: Did you have sex with that woman?”
Clinton: “Because that’s where I want to hit him.”
CIB, buy them. The reward is well worth the risk. Way worth it IMHO.
I bought mine.
Guys, i agree with you. I’m just saying that’s probably Leyland’s argument, but to bat the dude third is just incomprehensible.
I know I’m really late to the discussion, but Timo starting? Batting 3rd? And then we get killed by the Royals? Now that the attitude around here has changed, maybe it’s time to get rid of Leyland…Thanks for what you did Jim, but…if we’re going to consistently win, we need a manager who doesn’t put horrible players 3rd in the lineup.
Tsmith: Nice!
I don’t understand why Rayburn isn’t in the lineup everyday? He’s got the best pure swing of anyone on the team. I don’t care where you play him, left, right, third, dh… we have a better chance of winning with him in the game
I do agree that tonight it’s on Nate being inconsistent, non-strike-throwing Nate Robertson and not on Timo, but it’s hard to be in a good mood before the game when your manager puts Timo Perez 3rd. I’m all for giving guys a rest but if Thames isn’t going to be in LF, Raburn should be. If neither are, Maybin should be. Then if all three happen to spontaneously burst into flames or be struck down by god itself, then we put Timo in LF — and hit him 9th.
Is this why we get rid of Craig Monroe? To play Timo Perez??? C’mon…
This is just as much the offenses fault as it is nates.
If leyland does the ol tip the cap to the other pitcher he just was better crap i’ll scream.
Cameron: Truth man. Truth.
Along with T Smith’s new phrase, I love using “Grilli” or “Grilli’d” for something going bad or getting messed up.
“I went out to the bar last night, we got so Grilli’d. So now I’m feeling pretty Grilli’d here and I still have to work today.”
“I had a fender-bender today. I’m all right but my car is a little Grilli’d.”
Seriously. I hated Monroe, but if i had any idea this was going to happen i would have stopped complaining. It’s like firing Khadafy and hiring Saddam Hussein.
Time to see Timo(!) shine!
PINCH HIT FOR TIMO!!!
time for a pinch hitter
If Timo drives in a run here, the world just may explode.
yeah right stephen. that aint gonna happen. because thats not what leyland wants.
Okay. When you have eleven hits and only two runs, SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE LINEUP. Leyland fumbled the ball on this one.
no rod, disrespect timo, please!
Wow. Timo got HOSED on the first 2 strike calls. Those were horrendous. I can’t blame him for that AB.
The objective of an umpire is to not be noticed.
Wow Timo. Wow. Swing and a ball at your eyes.
I forgot, whats the objective of a third hitter?
Leyland, you are an ass.
HAHA! Perez! Just driving home the point!
Well looks like we’re losing a game on the yanks as well. They just knocked off the Box.
Mike: i still blame him for swinging at that high fastball like he was chris shelton however.
Thanks Eric. I probably will but I have the perverse thought that if I DON’T, then they will make it all the way . . .
I just want to say that I don’t think there should EVER be a game without Raburn in it. Recently he is one of the few guys where when he is at the plate I expect a hit. And not having him hit just now was just plain malpractice by the manager.
Sheesh, wasn’t that the perfect spot for Thames to, “Run into one.” ?
Leyland should be fired…… There is no possible way anybody in their right mind would have put Perez hitting 3rd… And just look at the results.
Check the Gameday on the Perez AB – Ridiculous.
First two balls were at least five inches outside the strike zone. Oh, excuse me, strikes.
Man, they could have spotted Timo 3 balls and he’s not getting a hit. I’m tempted to fly to KC, get a credential, and personally give Leyland a breathalyzer and a competency test.
Yeah I was wondering about that…maybe Guillen should have hit third and then Perez last?
HEY HEY
remember when Leyland used to say he’d always take talent over experience? REMEMBER?
Grilli, Mesa, Perez and Perez.
I thought he was a man of his word sorta guy?
Cut Timo. He shouldn’t be on a major league roster. If he’s on a major league roster, he should only be playing as a defensive replacement or a pinch runner (i.e. like his shortstop surnamesake). If he’s in a lineup it should only be because everyone else is injured or has the flu and can’t stand up.
If Marcus Thames was in the 3 hole I’m guessing maybe he might catch hold of one with someone on base.
Timo’s four at-bats: man on first, one out, grounder. Man on first, two outs, pop up. First and third, nobody out, hit one to the pitcher. First and third, two outs, three pitch strikeout.
Come on Cheeseman!
I have to agree with Chris and any others who have commented on Perez batting in the 3-hole. Not to be overly dramatic, but at this point in the season, every game is important and the best possible line-up should be used. This is no time for experimenting or acting on hunches.
This is an absolute joke. Leylands on someone else’s payroll.
Jason? Jason from somewherE? Where’d he go. WHy isn’t he here defending Timo? Seriously.
Yeah. Arnold Rothstein’s.
I don’t. That AB showed that a strike is anything thrown towards the backstop, I would’ve swung too.
And I don’t even want Thames hitting 3rd. If Sheffields out of the lineup, Guillen needs to hit 3rd, Thames 5th, then the rest of the order.
Tony Pena looks like Batboy from World Weekly News… See
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/1e/Batboy_Steals_MINI.jpg
No, don’t worry. He’ll pinch hit in the ninth and we’ll hit around and go ahead and then Todd Jones will blow the save.
Who would you rather be mad at? Leyland or BULLPEN!?!
…bullpen.
That is the third time I’ve heard Rod explain the difference between being clobbered and scattering runs.
However, I don’t want Jim Leyland fired, no matter how much I have criticized a ton of his decisions. If this continues next year, I’d give it some thought.
Also, Jason Grilli is turning in another good performance and he’s been stellar his past few times out.
Wheres bilfer?
Another thing that really gets my goat is Pudge has no business protecting Guillen. Drop him to 8th. Let Casey or Thames hit behind Guillen, at least he’ll see some pitches. Ridiculous.
And LaMont sucks at coaching 3rd. 2nd night in a row Grandy ran into an out at home.
Ouch. That DP killed us.
Gotta win the next two in KC.
Timo: 0-4, 6 LOB tonight; 1-11 for a booming .091 in his brief stint this year. He looks so at home in that 3 spot between two of the Top 4 hitters in the majors.
***This is just as much the offenses fault as it is nates***
Jim:
What do you mean? The offense is doing just fine. Twelve hits. Oh yeah, only two runs. Oh, but wait. Maggs just got a lead off hit. And his last hit was a lead off hit. And his first hit was a lead off hit. Isn’t he the cleanup guy?
Opps. I forgot this lineup is fubar. The batter in the three hole kills everything before Maggs gets a chance.
Chris thanks for the laugh. DId you ever see Batboy The Musical? Hysterical.
My kid is bugging me for the computer and I’m going to sign out and take some time off from the Tigers tonight. With these extreme highs and lows, I’m going to need lithium pretty soon.
Leyland should pubically apoligize for Timo tonight.
and nice to see Pudge get a hit…with no one on.
Ok, I’ve just gone to baseballreference.com and sponsored the Timo Perez page for $15. As of tomorrow, It will carry the header of ‘Leyland, stop the madness.’
Thirteen hits – TWO RUNS. Wow.
It must suck to be an Orioles fan right now…the Birds were leading the Devil Rays 6-3 going into the top of the 8th inning, and the Orioles bullpen just imploded and gave up an 11-spot to the Rays…Rays now beating the Orioles 15-8 in the 9th inning.
So the Buccaneers convert the two-point conversion and now lead the Ravens, 15-8 with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter.
Stephen:
What the freak. 13 hits, 2 runs, down by 4.
Opposition: 6 hits, 6 runs, up by 4.
Stephen:
My heart symbol didnt show, but it was a heart.
Why not somthing like, Timo Perez: the most feared 3 hitter in history? ha
Couldn’t agree more.
Stephen: “Mr. Leyland, have you been drinking tonight?”
Leyland: “Because that’s where I want to hit him.”
Stephen: “Yes, Mr. Leyland. Yes. We’re “painfully” aware of that. But you actually APPEAR to be intoxicated.”
Leyland: “Because that’s where I want to hit him.”
I can not wait to hear what Leyland says after the game, probably somthing like:
Well, we ran into a good pitcher cant do much about that. Oh, well Timo just didnt get it done tonight, cant do much about that. Yeah, Nate wasnt sharp tonight, didnt get it done, cant do much about that.
Casey is Horrible.
Rate the AL starting 1B men, he is #14.
-Sam
i said it before the game and i’m saying it now…perez and casey are 1 for 8 and we have stranded 11 men. raburn and thames would have had us a lot closer than 6-2.
injuries aside, we have a better lineup than what we got tonight.
And bad news for the Tigers in the Wild Card race…the Mariners just tagged Ervin Santana for five runs in the 1st inning. The Angels have already gone to the bullpen in the 1st inning, with Santana only managing to get one out. The score there is 5-0 Mariners.
Unless the Angels can chip away and come back, the Tigers will have to rally to win if they want to remain 3.0 games back in the Wild Card race.
My only good feeling tonight is that I ordered a Slingbox and will have it plugging away at my dad’s house in a couple weeks so I can watch ALL of the Detroit sports live over the internet from Ohio. Such a glorious little invention.
Oh, and just to jump on the bitch train with everyone else… Leyland, what are you smoking tonight?
punisher2006 the indians fan:
Gotta research project for you. Find out how where Eric Wedge and Jim Leyland have their little clandestine trysts, during which Eric Wedge gives Leyland all his instructions and marching orders.
Smith, I think you’re on to somthing there.
btw I’am absoltly messed up right now and the tigers are ruining it. Man, im sad.
Guillen hitting 3rd isn’t a bad idea, if for no other reason than to shake up the lineup for a game or two and see what happens. The problem is that Thames isn’t consistent enough of a hitter to really protect Maggs.
I mean, Leyland HAS TO BE on the Tribe’s payroll. I can think of no other explanation.
I like how punisher comes to the Tigers site and gives us faux sympathy about our suffering. He is the Tokyo Rose of detroittigersweblog.com
23 LOB. Who has the most? Our #3 hitter.
I really want to change the channel but I cant bring myself to it.
Certitude:
Death, Taxes, Inge with multiple whiffs when we need a rally
Ramon = Ichiro?
Even RAMON SANTIAGO is hitting.
Don’t change the channel, two more guys get on at Timo is up to bat and he’s gonna hit a grand slam.
Guillen protects Maggs by hitting in front of him and being on base more then anyone else we could put there in Sheffield’s absence. Sheff’s protected Magglio much more then Guillen has this year simply by always being on base. Which is why Sheff was killing the lineup for a while earlier this month; he wasn’t on base enough.
Oh, now Raburn gets to play.
If two guys get on and Leyland lets Timo bat, i think we can burn his house down and no court will convict us.
What is up with Grilli?
More than any other game this year, this loss is due mostly because of Leyland. And, unlike your garden variety bullpen faux pas, it was lost hours before the first pitch.
Absolutely inexcusable… I want to see him fired…
But if Timo hits that grand slam you all owe me beers.
Rod: Just jimmy playing the match-ups.
How come Leyland didn’t play the match ups against the Indians??
Well, Gobble does bode well for us.
Heh..who knows…maybe a bar where Wedge buys Leyland a bunch of drinks, perhaps spiked, gets Leyland all buzzed up. Then Leyland, in his euphoric drunken stupor, puts Timo Perez, who has a grand total of 26 HR in his career and who has hit .208 from 2005-2007, in the 3 hole.
Well there’s gotta be thousands of bars between Cleveland and Detroit…who knows where you want to start lookin =P
If Timo hits a grand slam, i will run naked around my sister’s clarkston home where i’m visiting…
I don’t know why everyone wonders why Leyland does stuff like this. It’s totally positively skewed for him. If his “gut” pays off and Alexis Gomez hits a home run in a playoff game, he’s a hero, “pushes all the right buttons,” etc. But if Timo Perez goes 0-fer, no one will say anything. It’s not Leyland’s fault Perez stinks.
I think DD designated Monroe, not because he wanted to call up Maybin, but because he wanted to prevent Leyland from using him. In an related story, I heard Dave Dombrowski introduced Neifi to his dealer.
Either that or he’s slippin’ something in his marlboros.
Gobble look real good.
Leyland is high as a kite.
With that DP from Polly this game is OVAH
Leylands “hunchs” are irritating.
Wow…we are really destined to lose this game. Placido!
Maybe Santiago should have been hitting 3rd?
I wonder if Rockies fans are laughing at us right now.
Maybe a coat hanger should have hit third
I did a little number-crunching on Timo Perez, going from 2005-2007. Here are some impressive numbers as compared to Carlos Guillen’s numbers in the same span:
AVG: Guillen: .315; Timo: .208
HR: Guillen: 43; Timo: 3
SLG: Guillen: .500; Timo: .290
So, in this recent span, Timo has SLUGGED lower than Carlos has BATTED. How can Jim Leyland possibly have put Timo Perez in the 3-hole???
Hey Leyland! Yeah, let’s take Granderson out instead of Perez. Ok. Good deal. You know, because Granderson had an Ofer with 6 LOB.
I like Raburn, but really? Granderson>Raburn>Perez. Why not make the team stronger rather than weaker?
Forty:
This is no time for Leyland to be playing his “gut.” I’m sorry. I don’t care if Alexis Gomez hit a ball to the moon on a vague and remote hunch of Jimmy Leyland that payed off. You need to give you team the best chance to win. Hell, if you want a skipper like that, might as well call in Shirley McClain to call the shots. Or Jon Edwards.
Come on.
Wheres Luis Polonia these days anyways? 😛
Haha, and the coat hanger would actually be useful…for yanking Timo Perez out of the game by the throat.
11 straight batters put down by Grilli.
Adam,
I liked the move by Leyland. I love Grandy, but he hits .157 against lefties. Actually he should do that move more often late in games. The game we lost 3-1 against Cleveland last week he did not take Grandy out with 2 on and 2 out in the bottom of the 9th in a 0-0 ball game.
-Sam
***So, in this recent span, Timo has SLUGGED lower than Carlos has BATTED. How can Jim Leyland possibly have put Timo Perez in the 3-hole???***
I thought we already established that. Because those were Eric Wedge’s marching orders.
This is getting lost in the shuffle but Gas Can Grilli has been stellar in his last 6 outings (including tonight) I think it was.
sorry meant to say where is luis PUJOLS these days?
But really, where is polonia too? HA
Ok, NOW he chooses to get on base.
Thanks Timo.
grilli has been real good lately..good for him.
Am I blind or did I just see Timo Perez double to right field?
Nice perez. Real nice. Are you just mocking us now?
Oh no Timo double. He must be getting hot. Better start him in the 3-hole again tomorrow Leyland.
Timo delivers!!
Oh, never mind…
And that meaningless hit insures timo gets another start.
If the Tigers comeback and at least tie the game, I will take back what I said about Perez.
i won’t, he sucks.
Agreed
Just checking in…HOLY SMOKES. 25 LOB??? 6 by Timo Perez…Looks like all of the early posts were right.
Whoopee
Kevin it is easy to be right on such an easy call. lol
T, give my post another read…i’m pretty sure its intention was to skewer Leyland for going with his gut. Hence the comments about Dombrowski removing crappy players so Leyland can’t play them. The first part is a sarcastic explanation of why Leyland might be incented to go with hunches.
Jimmy is the broadcaster who picks Tadahito Iguchi to be player of the game when he’s on the same team as Ryan Howard and Chase Utley. You don’t look stupid if Howard is player of the game. But if Taddy is you look like a genius. Hence, positive skew. (Of course, in reality, you are stupid for picking Tadhahito — you should pick Howard or Utley every time, as they are the best players on the team).
Casey, why don’t you do something positive in a clutch situation?
The stat that they use for LOB is Team LOB, which is 12. But 25 by all individuals in the lineup is still flat out bad. And Timo did 25% of it by himself.
Game. Good one. Utterly pathetic.
This was pure garbage.
How do you get 16 hits and score only 3 runs??
-Sam
Or not. You know, I know Sheff being out is killing us, but Leyland’s managing and Casey/Inge isn’t even giving us a puncher’s chance.
Sixteen hits. Three Runs.
And there it is! A total disaster of a game!
How do we out hit a team 16 to 6 and lose by 3 runs. Afreakinmazing.
Maybe put in a giant rock to bat third instead of Timo…if it’s big enough it might rack up some hit-by-pitches.
27 LOB VS THE ROYALS??? Timo was an absolute disaster, but Casey, Pudge and Inge could have put us into the game with one timely hit.
16 HITS??? Holy smokes, I think I’m gonna move on to tomorrow’s game.
punisher2006 the indians fan,
Aren’t you glad that our manager is a total retard?
***How do you get 16 hits and score only 3 runs??***
By letting Mendoza bat third.
Forty – Is your tag a reference to the common dispensing size of malt liquor commonly found for sale in Detroit convenience stores? I always preferred the Colt 45 45 ounce bottles for $2.45 plus deposit.
punisher – Roger on the team LOB. But from a quick glance at the box score, the entire lineup had chances to produce. At least we are hitting well. Just need to win the next two.
Punisher that comment is hilariously absurd and yet I’d be willing to give it a try.
So, where was Thames to hit for Casey? down 2, Thames would be the tying run. Nah, we’ll let Casey hit instead. THEN we can bring in Thames to hit for Inge, who can win the game with his power, and go for the win that way.
I’ve tried to stay positive all year, even among all the negative comments we’ve had this year from everyone, you all know this. i’ve tried and tried and tried to be positive but my god i think i may have finally lost it.
This is the worst ive felt after a game all year. because from the start it felt like he leyland set us up to lose.
Maybe everyone else in the clubhouse thought the same thing when they saw Timo batting third?
HAHAHAHAHA.
HAHAHAHAHA.
HAHAHAHAHA.
16 hits to 6. Which team won? HAHAHAHA!
Maggs with 4 hits! Hahaha!
Tell you what guys, if you don’t have someone to bat third, and your first two guys consistently get on, hmm. Bat your MVP cleanup man third. We probably win this game easily.
I have never seen such a loss like this where the LINEUP ORDER is what basically cost us. Jim Leyland owes the English D an apology after tonight.
Just unacceptable.
No, PHT, it’s a reference to the number of men on a certain Tigers roster that Perez has no business being on.
im trying, im trying. really trying. but my god.
Forty:
I stand corrected on my take on your post. I’m a little blurry eyed by all the incredulous baseball I’ve witnessed tonight.
I like King Cobras by the way
Oh, and Grilli hasn’t allowed a run since Aug 13.
Actually Jim, I’m sure it made the team feel great. Leyland is after all the great motivator. The man with the ability to read the emotional vibrations coming off his team and adjust accordingly with nuanced precision. He’s like a seismograph that can prevent earthquakes.
With all the stuff sheffield says, i hope after tonight he says somthing noting that he has been replaced by Timo Perez. Seriously. Someone needs to rip Leyland for this, not just us.
well, the pen letdown preceeded the slump, followed by hitting and starting pitchers. the pen has been good for a number of weeks now and the hitting seems to be back…perhaps we will get the starters back and get on a roll. tomorrow would be a good time to get a quality start backed by the best 9 we got…includes thames and rayburn…fingers crossed.
Also, one thing I’m not sure we’ve all taken into our analysis: Timo hits left-handed. The starter today was a righty. So maybe Leyland is actually a genius.
Wait, no that’s retarded.
btw I predict tommorw Ramon will bat fourth, on a hunch.
Chris,
As an Indians fan in the thick of a playoff chase, I’m glad it indirectly benefits my team. But the thing is that the Indians have to go out and play good baseball and win games. We weren’t able to do that during the first part of the second half despite a great opportunity to open up some ground in the AL Central. As a consequence the division is still very much up for grabs, even though the Indians have begun to turn things around lately.
Still, it kinda saddens me to see a team like the Tigers, with so much talent, struggle because the manager makes a boneheaded decision to bat in the 3-hole a guy who has played benchwarmer and back-up utility outfielder the past three years and who has slugged lower in the past three years than Guillen’s batting average.
Jim, I heard Sheffield say after the game that Leyland started Timo b/c he wanted a three hole hitter who is easy to control.
Tonight’s decision to bat Timo Perez third proves that anything is possible from Leyland. Who knows, he might bat Timo fourth and stick Santiago in the three hole after his 3-4 night.
This one is on leyland, 100%. He needs to stop giving away games.
I hear what you are saying Mike, and I think it might be worth a try. I think the No. 3 position is important enough, with Polanco being a machine, that you can’t waste it on singles hitter like Casey or a guy with streaky power like Thames…or Timo Perez (I mean WTF, Leyland!)
But I also think you’re stretching here thinking that Guillen in the three slot is going to do much to help Maggs–or the rest of the lineup–if Thames can’t produce hitting fifth. We may pick up a couple extra big innings, but I don’t think the offense gets appreciable better.
Leyland was pretty non chalant. Again. That’s getting irritating too.
i know it is more challenging to do when we have had so many starting pitching injuries but has leyland reset the rotation at all this year…you know to get more favorable matchups?
If you have 16 hits and only score three runs, something isn’t clicking with the batting order. Yes, there were some hard luck at-bats, a few double plays — and a hell of a lot of rally killers unnecessarily orchastratred. But its all founded on an absolutely horrendous lineup.
But, teams are reluctant to walk Magglio when first base is occupied. And with Granderson and Polanco swinging hot bats, and Guillen being Guillen, chances are 1st base will be occupied and maybe more. Meaning Magglio sees more pitches. Your best hitter should be 3rd (Guillen), RBI guy 4th (Magglio) and 5th is generally reserved for big power guys like a Thames.
And we can complain about Timo all we want, Nate Robertson went out and sucked for us tonight. Again. So we got off to a terrible start and the bad lineup just complicated things.
The Angels have chipped away at the Mariners’ 5-0 lead and now the score is only 5-4 in the 5th inning.
Bilfer! you missed one for the ages.
ha ha guess who was the only pitcher tonight for baltimore that didnt give up any runs?
Mike R, I’ve been reluctant to bash Leyland too much this year, because a lot of in game strategy miscues are revealed through hindsight. He managed similarly last year, but when some head scratcher of a move turned out for the best, he was generally hailed as some sort of mystical puppet master. Unfair praise then, perhaps unfair criticism this season.
Tonight’s lineup? It crossed a threshold of mismanagement that is entirely inexcusable. Despite all the injuries and starting pitching regression and bullpen woes and poor fielding, we’re still in the thick of a division race and a wild card race. We have two different avenues of entering the playoffs available to us…and to have him produce this lineup when every game is huge, and the team is looking to turn a corner and make a push, is self-sabotage the likes of which I haven’t seen since Body Miller partied at the Olympic level.
I’m calling him out as a freaking incompetent–if not crazy–hot-water bottle who shouldn’t be managing our beloved team.
I know someone will re-post this if the Tigers end up making the playoffs, but that’s the way I’m feeling after watching this travesty of a game.
And just in case someone get the wrong impression, when I trash tonights lineup, it isn’t just Timo batting 3rd. It’s a lineup that includes Timo, Santiago, and Inge batting anywhere in the same lineup. A lineup like that is coming close to conceding 3 outs every time through the order. As was evidenced tonight, putting together rallies with that kind of lineup is pretty damn difficult.
Oh and Pudge too. But of course, we kinda have to live with him.
The heck we do, give me rabelo.
Give me Thames. Give me Rabelo. Give me Maybin.
Ditch Perez. Ditch Casey. Ditch Pudge.
I would have rather seen Casey playing shortstop tonight just because atleast that would have provided some amusement (albeit short lived)
*I like how punisher comes to the Tigers site and gives us faux sympathy about our suffering. He is the Tokyo Rose of detroittigersweblog.com*
Stephen, despite the fact that I’m an Indians fan I am really in general just a huge baseball fan. I’ve watched the sport since I was 7, whether or not the Indians have done well or done poorly, and I’ve always enjoyed following all the playoff races. This is one of my favorite blogs to read online because Billfer does a nice job with it (good commentary, frequent updates, a good mix of statistical and observational analysis) and because I like reading about and discussing baseball.
I’m an Indians fan of course, and I’d love to see the Indians play good baseball and make it to the playoffs. But I also like seeing good baseball regardless of who the team is, and I like a good race to the finish. I like studying the sport and the teams and all the elements of the game. And above all I love talking about it.
So I guess, in the end, I’m just a baseball fan.
I guess it’s safe to say that, being a fan of good baseball, you weren’t too thrilled with last year’s world series.
I’m begining to think that Nate Robinson is just not cutting it as the number 5 starter. Maybe, I’m expecting too much. But either way, I’m wondering what Nate’s future is with this team, especialy since Bonderman & Miller are fighting for that number 5 starter position.
I picked the Tigers to come out on top 4-2…the Cardinals had different plans. Last year’s World Series is for you guys what the 1995 World Series (CLE, 100-44, vs. ATL, 90-54; ATL won 4-2) was for me.
Nate is more than fine for a #4 or #5 starter. Our problem is our #1 is still young and unpredictable, our #2 is 43 and possibly done, and our #3 looks lost and incapable of learning from his mistakes.
i hear you punisher. keep the faith.
I guess it’s too much to ask, that “Big game Nate” hold off the mighty Royals in a Tuesday night home game. I say cut his ass now!
punisher2006 the indians fan,
Looking at the Indians, I am wildly impressed with the rock-solid middle relief combo of Perez & Betancourt — particularly Betencourt. From what I could glean, his high level of relief is responsible for the Indians being in first place. If ever a middle reliever was to be team MVP, this is it.
OTOH, Borowski is a nightmare. It is amazing that he hasn’t blown more saves or lost more games. If he implodes and the Indians fade out because of it, Bentancourt has got to be the closer for next year.
punisher2006,
I actually like Cleveland’s chances this year. The starting pitching & middle relief is extremely consistent. CC & Fausto can really shut-down the opposition in the first two games.
The only real weakness is the closer. And unlike our closer Jones, he doesn’t seem to get better as the season goes on.
betencourt to borowski sound familiar to anyones set up from las tyear? ha
Leyland is a control freak. It’s my way or the highway. A lot of guys get this way when they turn 60. I’m the exception. The dead brain cells are piling up faster than the old gray matter can manufacture new ones. He needs to surround himself with a couple young hotshots to balance out his old school thinking. He needs to go on the 60 day DL and then we can bring him back for the celebration.
Chris,
I agree with you that Betancourt has done great. He has had a career this year, and he certainly is one reason why the Indians are where they are right now. So far he has set career highs for ERA (1.45) and WHIP (.726) and he has had impeccable control this year, really painting that outside corner with his 4-seamer. He is probably one of the top three middle relievers in baseball. The only worry I have with him is that he is on pace to pitch 77.1 innings this year, 10 more than he has ever pitched in his career. Because he has a history of injuries, I worry that he is being overworked.
I also don’t think he has closer-type stuff. He relies purely on the command of his fastball and his ability to hide the ball well (and to lull opposing hitters to sleep), and if he does not have his command and leaves his fastball down the middle, he can get knocked around. Fortunately for us, he has not been worn down yet and has had great command of the fastball all year long.
Perez is young and has a great slider; he has been a real important part of the bullpen too because he has shut down lefties and has done admirably against righties. He’ll likely come back to the bullpen next year.
But Blowrowski does worry me…I feel like I have to reach for a bottle of whiskey every time he comes on to pitch, simply because he always makes saves interesting. He has managed to get the job done (somehow). After this season I don’t know who we could use as our closer because there really are few arms in our farm system with good closer-type stuff.
The big problem is that these is that these three guys are only arms we have that are reliable. The other guys have been erratic all year long and as a result we have been forced to overuse Betancourt and Perez.
Punisher; how about those 1954 Indians who went 111 and 43 and promptly lost 4 straight to the Giants in the World Series.
And Chris,
I have been really impressed with C.C. and Carmona. Carmona really came out of nowhere especially after his horrendous 2006 campaign (1-10, 5.42). He has learned to control his sinker, and he has learned how to mix in his secondary pitches to keep hitters off balance. With his insane sinker, though, I sense that he may be prone to years where he simply can’t find his stuff and where he gets knocked around a bit.
And Jake Westbrook returned to form just in time. He’s got his sinker back and has pitched very well (4-1 in August, 1.90 ERA). The Indians have to hope that Aaron Laffey pitches at least moderately well while Cliff Lee tries to regain his command down at AAA. Paul Byrd has been consistent all year long and has proven to be a good No. 4 starter. Again, that question mark is Laffey.
And yeah, Blowrowski needs to work on not putting the tying runs in scoring position after his team gives him two insurance runs to work with…he can only get out of those situations so many times before it backfires on him…man oh man.
The 1954 Indians are an interesting case because they won 55 of their 111 games against the bottom three teams in the American League, while going just 22-22 against the 2nd and 3rd place teams (CHW and NYY). They often had to scrape out wins against the White Sox and Yanks, and on the whole the 1954 Tribe won more games than they really should have simply because they found ways to absolutely trounce the cellar dwellers.
Might I chime in on the future of Nate Robertson discussion…Robertson I believe is arbitration-eligible at the end of the year, and I think after next year he can become a free agent. He’ll be 31 years old by then, while Miller and Bonderman will still be in their mid-20s. Big question marks still hang on Verlander’s ability to continue to mature and Rogers’s ability to battle his injury problems and his age next year. While both Robertson and Bonderman have steadily improved each year up until this year in most pitching categories, it might be a bit too early to determine Robertson’s future. I think once this season is done the management may have a better idea of where Robertson stands. One thing Dave Dombrowski ought to look for is to see how Bonderman fights through this tough struggle of his, the first real prolonged slump he’s had since 2003, his rookie year.
So in the end, in my opinion (I’m interested in others’ opinions), Bonderman and Miller have a better chance of sticking around than Robertson because of contract situations and Bonderman’s youth, but again there are so many question marks remaining that it could change.
I don’t know about all of you but I don’t care about the Indians other than they are a team with a lot less talent than us and at this point are 3 and a half games ahead of us. Unless Betancourt is in a Detroit uniform, I could care less about his statistics. I think Punisher is just covering himself. If the Twins were in second place, He’d be hanging out at their site. Being a baseball fan “in general”, he can have someone to root for in case the Indians take a dump.
Fact – only one other team had as many hits as 16 on Tuesday night.
The St. Louis Cardinals had 16 hits en route to a 7-0 shutout over the Astros.
The Devil Rays posted 15 hits in their 15-8 win over Baltimore.
Ron, your speculation that I’d have someone to root for in case the Indians take a dump is ridiculous. Several times the Indians have fallen apart towards the end of the season and yet I still rooted for them. You seem to think that a baseball fan in general can’t root for his home team AND still follow baseball in general, even though that’s hardly true.
Also, I would be posting on a Twins blog except I have yet to find one that is anywhere near as well run and popular as this blog is.
And as far as Betancourt goes, the only reason I said anything about it was because someone else WAS interested in it (unless they were just pretending). Otherwise I wouldn’t have said anything.
I’m sorry if I stunk up the cyber-air surrounding the blog…just realize, though, that I’m not “covering myself” or any of that.
If there were any reason to believe the ’07 Tigers were done, just look at the box score of tonight’s game. A 3-run/ 16-hit game tells you everything you need to know. This team has no chemistry. It is a team that has mastered the art of finding ways to lose.
Joe Borowski’s numbers are deceiving. He’s pitched better then his numbers indicate and they’re inflate from just a few bad outings (like Todd Jones). Borowski’s ERA is 5.40 but his FIP is 3.75 and his xFIP is 4.19.
Meanwhile, for Jones his ERA is 4.47 and his FIP and xFIP’s are 3.52 and 4.53. So his production is pretty on par with his ERA while Borowski’s ERA is deceptive. Plus, Borowski K’s more and walks fewer guys then Todd Jones. Though, Jones gives up fewer HR’s but that’s a product of Jones being more of a GB pitcher then Borowski.
Either way, I still think the notion of closers are somewhat overrated. I’d much prefer Zumaya and Rodney stay 7th/8th inning guys. They’re more valuable pitching 1+ innings at high leverage situations in the 7th or 8th innings, then sitting in the bullpen simply because the game is tied or not in the 9th inning. You can get buy with a decent to just good closer because the bridge to the closer, in my opinion, is more important. The proverbial “shorten the game to 6 innings” theory that worked so well for us. Just look at Cleveland, us last year, and other teams that are examples of that. Decent or good closers but none that would be confused for Mo Rivera, but are successful because the bridge to them is money more times then not.
I’m gonna have fun with the remaining games this season regardless of the outcome
but last night when Not Robertson started throwing balls instead of strikes I lost interest
throwing like that the game was no contest
If fell asleep early and missed the end of the game. I knew we’d lose.
Stepen, you’re right. No way Timo should be in the lineup let alone batting third. Made me sick.
Roster:
I’ve been following with interest the various roster changes.
One thing stands perfectly clear and that is it is absolutely essential to continue work on Team Development
I don’t know how to do that, that’s Jim’s job
ya ain’t gonna win every game and ya ain’t gonna win every year. but every game is an opportunity.
God bless Leyland for helping turning the Tigers around this season and last, but damn if he doesn’t make some of the stupidest managerial decisions. Timo Perez batting third? My gaaaaahd.
In other news, seems that Oakland has found a nice 3B/utility man in Jack Hannahan. His OBP has always been sky high. Would be nice to have a guy like him as a utility option instead of Timo freakin Perez.
I have an Idea. Leyland on the 60 DL for tired brain. (That would cover us thru the post season, right?– provided we get there).
Leyland runs the team and he knows more about baseball than any of the rest of us ever hope to
Leyland runs the team and he knows more about baseball than any of the rest of us ever hope to
Ok, that may be, but do you think the Tigers lineup last night was better than any lineup any of us could come up with?
Hell, I can guarantee I could come up with a better lineup than what the man who “knows more about baseball than any of the rest of us” threw out there last night.
I’ll bet Punisher knows more about baseball than Leyland. Is he available?
Here’s a question for Leyland:
Would you hit Ramon Santiago third? If not, then why would Timo hit third, since their numbers the last couple years are virutally the same. If yes, then I’m going to have to ask you to turn in your spikes and we’ll show you to a seat in a rocking chair, right next to the window at the finest retirement community in Michigan.
Frankly, why not have Rayburn lead off, Polly #2, then Granderson, Maggs, Guillen, so you can put your four hottest hitters right in a row. Perhaps we wouldn’t waste the 16 hits that way.
I forgot to add:
The fact that Timo got a double last night and Santiago got three hits scares the daylights out of me that Leyland will continue to run those guys out there for the rest of the road trip.
I can understand playing Santiago, since Guillen has the bad knees and SS is the most important defensive position on the field. That move makes some sense to me. But you are already giving up 3-4 outs (on most nights) with Ramon in there, so WHY would you sacrifice 4 more outs by having Timo in there too, especially with 3 capable options on the bench? You’re basically trying to win the game with only 19-20 outs. I forget who said it earlier, but somebody noted that Leyland claimed to favor talent over experience any day, and I thought the same thing; this move is a direct contradiction to that.
Sorry, I just can’t get past the absurdity of last night’s lineup, a very winnable game despite Nate’s bad start.
Finally, good to see Grilli (by all accounts a nice guy who has completely stunk up the joint all season) pitch great the last few outings. I hope he has great success in the National League next year.
Between MikeR and Punisher and all the stats, my head is spinning. Where do you find all the time?
In the miniseries “The Bronx is Burning” they have a scene where Billy Martin has Reggie Jackson pick the lineup out of a hat. Do you think that’s what happened last night?
Still so frustrated.
I have no problems with Ramon Santiago playing (in the correct spot in the line up that is)
I think he’s a decent little ballplayer whose solid on defense and is probably one of the better bunters on the team as well. While not an everyday player he seems to do the best with what he has. I like him better than Omar that’s for sure.
In the miniseries “The Bronx is Burning” they have a scene where Billy Martin has Reggie Jackson pick the lineup out of a hat. Do you think that’s what happened last night?
Billy did that once in Detroit, during the ’72 season. Eddie Brinkman ended up hitting 4th. The Tigers won the game:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1972/B08131DET1972.htm
One more time, Go Tigers.
It doesn’t take that long to find some stats.
Leyland keeps Miller in the line up when he should be at Toledo working on a 3rd pitch.
Leyland keeps Casey in the lineup when he gets a hit rather than running for him.
Leyland does not put Sheffield on the D/L about a month ago, so he is ready for the stretch.
Leyland starts Inge (rather than Raburn), starts Casey (rather than Thames).
Line up should be from now to the end:
Granderson lF
Polanco 2b
Thames DH
Ordonez RF
Guillen 1B
Maybin CF
Pudge C
Raburn 3b
Santiago SS.
Leyland should act like a manager and not a babysitter. These clowns make millions and should play (a kid’s game) like they mean it.
Why can’t the coachs find out how to correct Bonderman, Inge, IRod and Monroe.
How do you send down Infante and keep Inge.
Casey and Inge should be kept for 9th inning defense, and that is all.
They will not make the playoffs this year and Minnesota may pass them.