Comments on: Wrapping up the trade http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:06:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Coleman http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136198 Coleman Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:51:31 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136198 That's what has been said; on the other hand, dude has a statue of himself in his yard, like all good leaders do, so there's that side of it... That’s what has been said; on the other hand, dude has a statue of himself in his yard, like all good leaders do, so there’s that side of it…

]]> By: Birdy http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136197 Birdy Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:02:54 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136197 I disagree. What's Polly supposed to say? Smart players follow Mike Damone's point 3 and act like wherever they are, that's the place to be. "Isn't this great?" I don't think fame or money means that much to Curtis. "More than happy" to leave? I disagree there too. While I'm sure he relishes a new challenge, I think he's probably built a lot of close relationships within the organization that he's going to miss. Emotional attachment? I suppose fans are fans. But I think you'll see evidence of an emotional attachment both ways the first time the Yankees visit Detroit (Monday May 10, 7:05pm). And while I'm ok with Curtis being gone, I'M SURE it's not my place to tell other fans how and why to be fans. I'm most interested in winning, and I think there's a chance the trade helps us do that in the long run, and I had been a little frustrated with Curtis the last few years. But certainly people like Curtis are few and far between, especially in the ranks of professional athletes. More power to people that recognize that and yearn for that in their heroes. I'm saddened that some are going to cancel season tickets. That will have a real effect on the noise at the stadium and more importantly, revenue that could be spent trying to improve the team. I'm 100% behind the concept of people voting with their wallets. I just hope everyone is clear on the facts when voting. I disagree. What’s Polly supposed to say? Smart players follow Mike Damone’s point 3 and act like wherever they are, that’s the place to be. “Isn’t this great?”
I don’t think fame or money means that much to Curtis. “More than happy” to leave? I disagree there too. While I’m sure he relishes a new challenge, I think he’s probably built a lot of close relationships within the organization that he’s going to miss. Emotional attachment? I suppose fans are fans. But I think you’ll see evidence of an emotional attachment both ways the first time the Yankees visit Detroit (Monday May 10, 7:05pm).
And while I’m ok with Curtis being gone, I’M SURE it’s not my place to tell other fans how and why to be fans. I’m most interested in winning, and I think there’s a chance the trade helps us do that in the long run, and I had been a little frustrated with Curtis the last few years. But certainly people like Curtis are few and far between, especially in the ranks of professional athletes. More power to people that recognize that and yearn for that in their heroes.
I’m saddened that some are going to cancel season tickets. That will have a real effect on the noise at the stadium and more importantly, revenue that could be spent trying to improve the team. I’m 100% behind the concept of people voting with their wallets. I just hope everyone is clear on the facts when voting.

]]> By: Jack http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136192 Jack Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:23:42 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136192 "I’m sorry but Grandy wasn’t a winner. He was a great player don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think he was a leader or had the fire. He was no Pudge in that respect... but in the end it is all about winning or rebuilding to win" OK, I'm sorry, but you sound like a Yankee fan here. "He wasn't a winner, so we got rid of him! Only winners win!" By that logic, why don't we just trade off the whole damn team? Also, it was my understanding that Pudge was an asshole in the clubhouse and NOT a good leader. “I’m sorry but Grandy wasn’t a winner. He was a great player don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think he was a leader or had the fire. He was no Pudge in that respect… but in the end it is all about winning or rebuilding to win”

OK, I’m sorry, but you sound like a Yankee fan here. “He wasn’t a winner, so we got rid of him! Only winners win!” By that logic, why don’t we just trade off the whole damn team?

Also, it was my understanding that Pudge was an asshole in the clubhouse and NOT a good leader.

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136141 Chris in Dallas Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:56:08 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136141 You think this was bad? Just wait until they're struggling at the ASB and the "Tigers look to deal Verlander" articles start popping up. You think this was bad? Just wait until they’re struggling at the ASB and the “Tigers look to deal Verlander” articles start popping up.

]]> By: Phan http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136128 Phan Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:17:33 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136128 Detroit fans fell in love with Granderson's charming personality, causing many to overrate him as a player. He's good, not great. Despite his good range, he misplays too many balls, and his arm is just barely adequate for centerfield (although after Johnny Damon, he'll look like Roberto Clemente to Yankee fans). He's got decent power, which will be exaggerated in Yankee Stadium, but with his OBP and strikeouts, as well as his inability to hit LHP, I've always disliked him batting leadoff and it's hard to imagine him remaining there with the Yankees. I think he'd actually benefit batting lower in the order, and maybe not being one of the 'go to' guys in NY will help correct some of the deficiencies I mentioned. It's a great career move for him, going to a winner in a big market where his off-field opportunities should increase. I'm happy for the guy, because he seems like a genuinely good person, but it's not the end of the world for the Tigers. Inconsistency has been the story of Jackson's career, and I don't think that will ever change. The deal seems to reflect poor roster management by Dombrowski, which does make me wonder about his future with the Tigers. As for the kids we get, who knows? We can only keep our fingers crossed. Detroit fans fell in love with Granderson’s charming personality, causing many to overrate him as a player. He’s good, not great. Despite his good range, he misplays too many balls, and his arm is just barely adequate for centerfield (although after Johnny Damon, he’ll look like Roberto Clemente to Yankee fans). He’s got decent power, which will be exaggerated in Yankee Stadium, but with his OBP and strikeouts, as well as his inability to hit LHP, I’ve always disliked him batting leadoff and it’s hard to imagine him remaining there with the Yankees. I think he’d actually benefit batting lower in the order, and maybe not being one of the ‘go to’ guys in NY will help correct some of the deficiencies I mentioned. It’s a great career move for him, going to a winner in a big market where his off-field opportunities should increase. I’m happy for the guy, because he seems like a genuinely good person, but it’s not the end of the world for the Tigers.
Inconsistency has been the story of Jackson’s career, and I don’t think that will ever change.
The deal seems to reflect poor roster management by Dombrowski, which does make me wonder about his future with the Tigers.
As for the kids we get, who knows? We can only keep our fingers crossed.

]]> By: amason http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136124 amason Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:17:31 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136124 At first I thought Morosi's article was stupid but kiinda see how it makes sense if he didn't frame it as he did. Its not because there is a lot of money owed to people that Curtis got traded but that those guys cannot be traded for anything of value. This team who admittley is now worse than last year needs a new direction because "lets face it" last years team was not that good either. Unfortunatley Granderson and E-Jax are the only two guys not named Verlander or Cabrerra who can bring anything back. I think that if Guillen, Maggs, Nate or Willis still had value they would go and the Tigers probably keep Curtis and E-jax ... on that point I agree ... then again if those four were still decent/above-average players the Tigers might still have been title contenders ... so ... For now it at least looks like DD thinks its still worthwhile to build around JV and Migeul and although yesterdays moves may hurt signing JV was he going to be excited about resigining with a perennial 80 win team if they keep Granderson and E-Jax? Really there is no guarantee either way and I will not be suprised to see JV get traded next off-season if the team can't work out an extension ... At first I thought Morosi’s article was stupid but kiinda see how it makes sense if he didn’t frame it as he did. Its not because there is a lot of money owed to people that Curtis got traded but that those guys cannot be traded for anything of value. This team who admittley is now worse than last year needs a new direction because “lets face it” last years team was not that good either. Unfortunatley Granderson and E-Jax are the only two guys not named Verlander or Cabrerra who can bring anything back. I think that if Guillen, Maggs, Nate or Willis still had value they would go and the Tigers probably keep Curtis and E-jax … on that point I agree … then again if those four were still decent/above-average players the Tigers might still have been title contenders … so …

For now it at least looks like DD thinks its still worthwhile to build around JV and Migeul and although yesterdays moves may hurt signing JV was he going to be excited about resigining with a perennial 80 win team if they keep Granderson and E-Jax? Really there is no guarantee either way and I will not be suprised to see JV get traded next off-season if the team can’t work out an extension …

]]> By: Mark L http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136119 Mark L Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:08:51 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136119 Ah, found it. Righty. Figures. Ah, found it. Righty. Figures.

]]> By: Mark L http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136118 Mark L Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:07:50 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136118 Does Jackson bat lefty or righty? Does Jackson bat lefty or righty?

]]> By: Stormin Norman $ http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136114 Stormin Norman $ Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:42:14 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136114 Regarding 2010 attendance and the impact this trade will factor into an attendance decline - with or without this trade, the Tigers attendance (and season tix sales) is going to dip next year. Whether they have a winning record or not will determine attendance more than anything - and for every Granderson lover who has sworn a boycott of the Tigers, there are others that will come out if the Tigers win and compete next year... and me thinks even the bitter fans will have a change of heart if they're winning. AND had the Tigers not made any off-season moves and fielded the same or similar team, even with Granderson, if they have a losing record, fans would b*tch and stop buying tix or limit their ticket purchases. Regarding 2010 attendance and the impact this trade will factor into an attendance decline – with or without this trade, the Tigers attendance (and season tix sales) is going to dip next year.

Whether they have a winning record or not will determine attendance more than anything – and for every Granderson lover who has sworn a boycott of the Tigers, there are others that will come out if the Tigers win and compete next year… and me thinks even the bitter fans will have a change of heart if they’re winning. AND had the Tigers not made any off-season moves and fielded the same or similar team, even with Granderson, if they have a losing record, fans would b*tch and stop buying tix or limit their ticket purchases.

]]> By: Stormin Norman $ http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136113 Stormin Norman $ Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:25:54 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136113 welll stated - its not the end of the world for Curtis Granderson and the Tigers - players are traded and leave as free agents all the time... be happy Curtis that he's on a better team and the Tigers rec'd some quality players in return. welll stated – its not the end of the world for Curtis Granderson and the Tigers – players are traded and leave as free agents all the time… be happy Curtis that he’s on a better team and the Tigers rec’d some quality players in return.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136112 billfer Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:28:41 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136112 That's my dog. I couldn't think of a picture that fit and I've already used Scherzer, Jackson, Granderson pictures. I like beagles so I used a picture of my beagle. That’s my dog. I couldn’t think of a picture that fit and I’ve already used Scherzer, Jackson, Granderson pictures. I like beagles so I used a picture of my beagle.

]]> By: David http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136111 David Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:10:02 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136111 Hey Here is how I see this trade (with probably many reiterated points) 1) They get three pitchers and one hitter for a pitcher and a hitter. 2) They get a lot younger*** 3) They shed payroll 4) They sell Jackson on a high off his best year, and after they abused him somewhat down the stretch 5) They sell Granderslam off somewhat of a low - but still made good off him if several of these guys even develop into their projections. Although there are many things to like - guy is 29 with a noodle arm, and relatively poor contact. The question is will Austin Jackson develop into a Grandersonesque hitter? It is pretty obvious he has the speed. I like this trade a lot. I'm sorry but Grandy wasn't a winner. He was a great player don't get me wrong, but I don't think he was a leader or had the fire. He was no Pudge in that respect and with a 113 career OPS+ as an OUTFIELDER with good d, along with the fact that we have Clete Thomas and others who can replace him now at a fraction of the cost he was expendable. I mean yeah he was popular and a super nice guy, probably his rarest attribute (when compared to other players) but in the end it is all about winning or rebuilding to win and while he may have several more good years ala 2008 they most likely dealt him at a decent time. ***** If both Coke and Max can 1) start 2) are durable (ie at least like 170IP) 3) are cheap 4) for a long time 5) with sub 4.2 ERAs at least this next year Then along with this other guy we could have gotten out like bandits, especially if Edwin Jackson was a "one-year wonder". If on the other hand Coke is a reliever, Maxy Max has his spells and struggles against the AL for awhile, the hotshot reliever never materializes or does so in a Zumaya fashion (one year wonder), Austin Jackson turns out to be a Nook Logan plus, Edwin Jackson shows he was no fluke and Granderslam reverts back to his 2007 with the Bronx Bombers... then we got shafted. I hope they both start. It is pretty obvious though that Dombrowski is throwing dynamite at what was in many respects a team of failures. I just hope he has done his homework, and collected the right youth. Hey

Here is how I see this trade (with probably many reiterated points)

1) They get three pitchers and one hitter for a pitcher and a hitter.
2) They get a lot younger***
3) They shed payroll
4) They sell Jackson on a high off his best year, and after they abused him somewhat down the stretch
5) They sell Granderslam off somewhat of a low – but still made good off him if several of these guys even develop into their projections. Although there are many things to like – guy is 29 with a noodle arm, and relatively poor contact. The question is will Austin Jackson develop into a Grandersonesque hitter? It is pretty obvious he has the speed.

I like this trade a lot. I’m sorry but Grandy wasn’t a winner. He was a great player don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think he was a leader or had the fire. He was no Pudge in that respect and with a 113 career OPS+ as an OUTFIELDER with good d, along with the fact that we have Clete Thomas and others who can replace him now at a fraction of the cost he was expendable. I mean yeah he was popular and a super nice guy, probably his rarest attribute (when compared to other players) but in the end it is all about winning or rebuilding to win and while he may have several more good years ala 2008 they most likely dealt him at a decent time.

*****
If both Coke and Max can
1) start
2) are durable (ie at least like 170IP)
3) are cheap
4) for a long time
5) with sub 4.2 ERAs at least this next year

Then along with this other guy we could have gotten out like bandits, especially if Edwin Jackson was a “one-year wonder”.

If on the other hand Coke is a reliever, Maxy Max has his spells and struggles against the AL for awhile, the hotshot reliever never materializes or does so in a Zumaya fashion (one year wonder), Austin Jackson turns out to be a Nook Logan plus, Edwin Jackson shows he was no fluke and Granderslam reverts back to his 2007 with the Bronx Bombers… then we got shafted.

I hope they both start.

It is pretty obvious though that Dombrowski is throwing dynamite at what was in many respects a team of failures. I just hope he has done his homework, and collected the right youth.

]]> By: David G http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136108 David G Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:51:18 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136108 I don't get the Beagle pic. I don’t get the Beagle pic.

]]> By: Ken in Las Vegas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136103 Ken in Las Vegas Wed, 09 Dec 2009 07:28:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136103 Am I the only moron that doesn't understand why there is a picture of a beagle with this post? He's cute...and makes me feel complacent. Shouldn't there be a picture of a F150 slamming into him or something?? Without Placido and Grandy, we have a significant drop in the rolemodelmeter. Now I look up to.......Adam Everett?? Ugh. Now my Tiger is.......Cabrera?? Oh, that's real original, Ken. Let's face it, our team just got a little bit lamer. But, did we just get a little bit better? Quite possible. Maybe not this year, but possibly every year after. This is a classic example of buying low and selling high. Let's not act like Granderson was Mr. Reliable. He was not. I never felt all that great about him being at the plate when it mattered. Every time he hit a home run, it was a pleasant surprise. I loved him, but if he was a jerk, we probably have a very different idea about his value to the team. Am I the only moron that doesn’t understand why there is a picture of a beagle with this post? He’s cute…and makes me feel complacent. Shouldn’t there be a picture of a F150 slamming into him or something?? Without Placido and Grandy, we have a significant drop in the rolemodelmeter. Now I look up to…….Adam Everett?? Ugh. Now my Tiger is…….Cabrera?? Oh, that’s real original, Ken. Let’s face it, our team just got a little bit lamer. But, did we just get a little bit better? Quite possible. Maybe not this year, but possibly every year after. This is a classic example of buying low and selling high. Let’s not act like Granderson was Mr. Reliable. He was not. I never felt all that great about him being at the plate when it mattered. Every time he hit a home run, it was a pleasant surprise. I loved him, but if he was a jerk, we probably have a very different idea about his value to the team.

]]> By: Coleman http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136100 Coleman Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:32:12 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/12/wrapping-up-the-trade/#comment-136100 I've been struggling to say something about this trade; I literally can't think of a thing to say, yet it feels unbearable to say nothing. Hmmn. Oh well, when in doubt, be trivial, I always say...re Chris in Nashville, Guillen's contract is worse than Cabrera's or Inge's, both of whom are worth what they are being paid (if you give credence to Fangraphs, Inge has been worth far more than paid every season but 2008, even with his legendary strikeout totals.) Speaking of which, one thing that's sorta cool about the mobile version of the site--besides the fact that there is one (kudos to billfer, whatever kudos are)--is that you end up reading posts before you see the poster's name, and often know exactly who the poster is before you see the name. I’ve been struggling to say something about this trade; I literally can’t think of a thing to say, yet it feels unbearable to say nothing. Hmmn.

Oh well, when in doubt, be trivial, I always say…re Chris in Nashville, Guillen’s contract is worse than Cabrera’s or Inge’s, both of whom are worth what they are being paid (if you give credence to Fangraphs, Inge has been worth far more than paid every season but 2008, even with his legendary strikeout totals.)

Speaking of which, one thing that’s sorta cool about the mobile version of the site–besides the fact that there is one (kudos to billfer, whatever kudos are)–is that you end up reading posts before you see the poster’s name, and often know exactly who the poster is before you see the name.

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