Comments on: Playing in the spray – Curtis Granderson http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:59:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Grandy: Beloved in Detroit, but the sniping begins | It's About The Money http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-137587 Grandy: Beloved in Detroit, but the sniping begins | It's About The Money Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:55:40 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-137587 [...] spray charts (via Neyer), for example. I loved this [...] [...] spray charts (via Neyer), for example. I loved this [...]

]]> By: Why the Granderson take down? http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-136401 Why the Granderson take down? Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:51:41 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-136401 [...] hard to argue with Granderson’s batting average last year (though a deeper dive would tell you it isn’t a reason to be concerned) or his struggles with left handed pitching. [...] [...] hard to argue with Granderson’s batting average last year (though a deeper dive would tell you it isn’t a reason to be concerned) or his struggles with left handed pitching. [...]

]]> By: Lee Panas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135476 Lee Panas Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:16:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135476 They balance out in the long run but sometimes one year is not long enough for things to balance out. Over the course of a long career, it would be almost impossible for a player to be the victim of a disproportionate number of hard hit outs. Over one year, it could certainly happen There are only 15 hits in 500 at bats between a .250 hitter and .280 hitter. They balance out in the long run but sometimes one year is not long enough for things to balance out. Over the course of a long career, it would be almost impossible for a player to be the victim of a disproportionate number of hard hit outs. Over one year, it could certainly happen There are only 15 hits in 500 at bats between a .250 hitter and .280 hitter.

]]> By: Coleman http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135465 Coleman Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:33:12 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135465 .230 .307 .388 .696 346 PA (.261 BABIP) .267 .345 .516 .861 364 PA (.289 BABIP) There is a big enough differences in these two guys, and over enough plate appearances, that it looks like a significant difference and that the 2nd player is clearly better than the 1st. These two guys are Granderson at Comerica and Granderson away last season. Is it possible that Granderson just doesn't have real HR power and benefitted from pulling a bunch of line drive HRs in small parks? HRs 2009 Comerica/Road Cabrera 19 / 15 Inge 14 / 13 Granderson 10 / 20 Raburn 9 / 7 Team: 92 / 91 (Raburn had 199 fewer Comerica PAs than Granderson by the way). .230 .307 .388 .696 346 PA (.261 BABIP)
.267 .345 .516 .861 364 PA (.289 BABIP)

There is a big enough differences in these two guys, and over enough plate appearances, that it looks like a significant difference and that the 2nd player is clearly better than the 1st. These two guys are Granderson at Comerica and Granderson away last season.

Is it possible that Granderson just doesn’t have real HR power and benefitted from pulling a bunch of line drive HRs in small parks?

HRs 2009 Comerica/Road
Cabrera 19 / 15
Inge 14 / 13
Granderson 10 / 20
Raburn 9 / 7
Team: 92 / 91
(Raburn had 199 fewer Comerica PAs than Granderson by the way).

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135462 billfer Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:40:09 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135462 I'd at least hope they use this for defensive purposes. I have no idea what data they use and don't use. I’d at least hope they use this for defensive purposes. I have no idea what data they use and don’t use.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135461 billfer Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:38:51 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135461 This is actually a pretty good example. If you count hits as "success" there are elements I can control and elements I can't. I can try to consistently produce quality content which is probably key. But things beyond my control also impact traffic. Maybe a write a thorough article that doesn't get linked to and doesn't drive traffic for whatever reason. Other lesser articles might get more links. And I have no control over when news breaks. I think this was my best article this month, but I got a lot more hits last week because Granderson and Jackson's names got floated as trade rumors. This is actually a pretty good example. If you count hits as “success” there are elements I can control and elements I can’t. I can try to consistently produce quality content which is probably key. But things beyond my control also impact traffic. Maybe a write a thorough article that doesn’t get linked to and doesn’t drive traffic for whatever reason. Other lesser articles might get more links. And I have no control over when news breaks. I think this was my best article this month, but I got a lot more hits last week because Granderson and Jackson’s names got floated as trade rumors.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135460 billfer Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:28:09 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135460 I have the data to do splits, but I pretty much reached my limit on this analysis. Maybe I'll come back to it. I have the data to do splits, but I pretty much reached my limit on this analysis. Maybe I’ll come back to it.

]]> By: Jeff Molby http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135458 Jeff Molby Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:48:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135458 That's certainly an ongoing problem, but he only had about 50 more plate appearances than in 2007 and 2008, so that's not a major cause in his batting average decline. It's certainly a factor, though. That’s certainly an ongoing problem, but he only had about 50 more plate appearances than in 2007 and 2008, so that’s not a major cause in his batting average decline. It’s certainly a factor, though.

]]> By: Jeff Molby http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135457 Jeff Molby Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:46:56 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135457 <em>They are talking about things that were out of the player’s control</em>... and will generally balance out in the long run anyways. They are talking about things that were out of the player’s control… and will generally balance out in the long run anyways.

]]> By: Lee Panas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135453 Lee Panas Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:32:09 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135453 Keith, "luck" means that a player's BA (for example) can bounce up and down from year to year based on cheap hits dropping in or line drives being caught or facing tougher pitchers one year compared to the next. Even if a player has the exact same talent and performs in two different seasons, his batting average won't stay the same based on factors outside his control. Luck has lots to do with billfer's web site. He has a lot of talent and most of his stuff is great but some months he might be better than others. Maybe there is not a lot to write about in a particular month so it's harder for him come up with his best articles, so he doesn't write as well in that month as he usually does. He might have the same talent and work just as hard all the time but sometimes he is better than other times. When sabers use the word luck, they are not saying anything good or bad about the player. They are talking about things that were out of the player's control. Keith, “luck” means that a player’s BA (for example) can bounce up and down from year to year based on cheap hits dropping in or line drives being caught or facing tougher pitchers one year compared to the next. Even if a player has the exact same talent and performs in two different seasons, his batting average won’t stay the same based on factors outside his control.

Luck has lots to do with billfer’s web site. He has a lot of talent and most of his stuff is great but some months he might be better than others. Maybe there is not a lot to write about in a particular month so it’s harder for him come up with his best articles, so he doesn’t write as well in that month as he usually does. He might have the same talent and work just as hard all the time but sometimes he is better than other times.

When sabers use the word luck, they are not saying anything good or bad about the player. They are talking about things that were out of the player’s control.

]]> By: Kathy http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135452 Kathy Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:24:47 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135452 Even I found this fascinating. Staring at the colors and wondering why he was pulling the ball more in '09. Fabulous job, billfer. Do you think Lloyd looks at charts like this? Or anyone else in the Tiger organization? Even I found this fascinating. Staring at the colors and wondering why he was pulling the ball more in ‘09. Fabulous job, billfer. Do you think Lloyd looks at charts like this? Or anyone else in the Tiger organization?

]]> By: Andre in Chi http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135450 Andre in Chi Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:05:15 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135450 TSE, "This is actually my #1 gripe with the hitting coach’s program, in that they don’t use proper tactics to instruct the players in how they should approach different pitch count situations." Yeah, I remember combing through the program McClendon made public that outlined his coaching tactics. It was a very interesting read, and I was just as surprised as you must have been to learn that they weren't using proper tactics. TSE,

“This is actually my #1 gripe with the hitting coach’s program, in that they don’t use proper tactics to instruct the players in how they should approach different pitch count situations.”

Yeah, I remember combing through the program McClendon made public that outlined his coaching tactics. It was a very interesting read, and I was just as surprised as you must have been to learn that they weren’t using proper tactics.

]]> By: Keith (Mr. X) http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135449 Keith (Mr. X) Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:40:34 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135449 For the luck aspect, I was referring to the folks at the xBABIP calculator link. I wonder if the results would be much different for similar players like Ian Kinsler or Grady Sizemore? For the luck aspect, I was referring to the folks at the xBABIP calculator link.

I wonder if the results would be much different for similar players like Ian Kinsler or Grady Sizemore?

]]> By: Keith (Mr. X) http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135448 Keith (Mr. X) Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:23:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135448 I just don't agree with how the word luck is used so loosely by the sabermetric folks, especially for something that takes a heck of a lot of talent. It would be like me saying that you are lucky that your website is awesome. IMO, your success is due to your hard work, friendliness, great writing ability, and passion for the Tigers. Luck has nothing to do with it. This blogsite may have it's ups and downs, but that's how you make progress when you learn from each little mishap. Then there is the X factor, which is what the Tigers are doing, but that's not luck either. As for Granderson with the spray charts, I'd wonder how many players do have a consistent spray chart year in year out. It seems like Grandy is getting pigeonholed here. I just don’t agree with how the word luck is used so loosely by the sabermetric folks, especially for something that takes a heck of a lot of talent. It would be like me saying that you are lucky that your website is awesome. IMO, your success is due to your hard work, friendliness, great writing ability, and passion for the Tigers. Luck has nothing to do with it. This blogsite may have it’s ups and downs, but that’s how you make progress when you learn from each little mishap. Then there is the X factor, which is what the Tigers are doing, but that’s not luck either.

As for Granderson with the spray charts, I’d wonder how many players do have a consistent spray chart year in year out. It seems like Grandy is getting pigeonholed here.

]]> By: Albert Brown http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135447 Albert Brown Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:13:00 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/#comment-135447 One area that was not discussed was his failure to effectively hit left hand pitching. He was under 200 against lefties. One area that was not discussed was his failure to effectively hit left hand pitching. He was under 200 against lefties.

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