Comments on: Game 2009.163: Tigers at Twins postgame

By: Mike from Florida

Mike from Florida — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:41:35 +0000

But, even if the Tigers ever get thru Minnesota, Chicago and/or Cleveland, face it – they’ll never make it thru the Yankees. I’ve been a fan since the 50′s, but have never seen this team so over matched by the Yankees.
LF Tigers – avg hitter, NY above avg hitter, high run scorer.
CF Tigers – avg hitter, low run scorer – NY above avg hitter
RF Tigers – great hitter on managers s*#t list, NY avg hitter, high run scorer
Infield – beat to death at 3rd and SS. Tie for 2nd and 1st
Catcher – low avg, high DP’s, sure out – NY high avg, run producer. A team with 7/9 hitting less than .300 will never win the american league. Even the pitching is lacking. Starters aren’t allowed to go past 6 and the BP just blows games. NY’s pitchers have more complete games and better relievers if needed.
The tigers have 2 3rd basemen, 3 SS (one delegated to LF and not fast enough, 4 LF w/none batting or playing at ML level. 2 RF with one an all star and the other a swing and a miss. No catcher bat support. Lousy base running, lousy relief pitching, and still say most is due to Leyland’s platooning. Sheffield and Pudge should never have been discarded. Look whay they got to replace them! DH @.240, catcher @.230.

By: Kathy

Kathy — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:13:54 +0000

Hah! That was funny!

By: Andre in Chi

Andre in Chi — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 02:55:35 +0000

Sorry Kathy, I was totally replying to Dav-o, you just happened to post while I was typing. You seem swell to me

By: Kathy

Kathy — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 02:41:27 +0000

I guess you’re talking to me Andre in Chi. All I can glean from David’s comments are that he would never be a friend to me or like me because I’ve done things in his opinion that are destructive or somehow immoral in his opinion. Well, I’ll be right upfront. Sure I have. There’s “heavenly” and “evil”. Most of us are in and around the middle. No theories, no stats to back that up. It’s just kind of what I’ve learned growing up.

By: Andre in Chi

Andre in Chi — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 02:18:38 +0000

Actually, the burden of proof isn’t on him: he’s not accusing Mauer of doing anything, only stating that you have know way of proving your statement.

And its not so much that I like arguing for its own sake, although I won’t say that I don’t, its just that you frequently make assertions (or have issues phrasing things) with little supporting evidence.

By: Kathy

Kathy — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 02:14:46 +0000

David, please don’t be naive. Jeter has been a party boy for years an so are lots of other players on all the MLB rosters. I cannot believe how judgemental you are.

By: Jeff Molby

Jeff Molby — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:19:37 +0000

The Dontrelle, Nate and Sheffield moves were all generally well received around these parts. There were dissenters, but no major uproars. Those that voiced complaints back then have right to maintain their criticism, but most of us have to accept that the moves seemed good at the time.

http://www.detroittigersweblog.....r-3-years/
http://www.detroittigersweblog.....sheffield/
http://www.detroittigersweblog.....le-plus-3/

By: David

David — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:12:52 +0000

Shane I haven’t researched that. I know that I personally and several I have met if given a multi-million$ contract and only focused on baseball could do a better job, if not collectively in managing the Tigers.

I’m sure you can also find many established guys at the minor league level who could do a fine job and would love the promotion.

As far as GM, DD I think has done overall a very good job in the draft by going over slot. He has had good and bad FA signings and good and bad trades. His contract situation is horrid. He has consistently signed career years of mediocre players.

He also as I pointed out likes to go after the injury risk guys and hope they stay healthy. He also hasn’t gone after enough quality pitching.

Next year if the OF is Guillen/Granderson/Ordonez it will be horrid. All three have terrible arms (Granderson’s arm is horrible). And the two corner guys are horrible fielders as well.

I have no idea what budget he has to go after MIers or resign Poly/Everett. The rotation has as many question marks and solidified spots. The pen will not repeat I don’t think, without a good signing either. A lot of question marks for this team.

Right now, I like the White Sox to win the central outright, I think they have a very strong team. Much is subject to change though as we all know.

By: David

David — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:02:50 +0000

The burden of proof is on you. Presumption of innocence. Until I hear that Joe Mauer or Ichiro or Albert Pujols or Derek Jeter are drinking heavily and trying to destroy themselves, I have no reason to think that they are.

Cabrera now has a track record, so does Zumaya. There have been published reports/photos of this behavior.

You find it hard to get upset? Well, to me it is just one more reason not to be a fan of the Tigers.

I’m for players doing everything they can to obtain an positive edge. As far as this crap goes, anyone who on purpose does something as blatant as this to destroy his natural talent doesn’t deserve my respect and will never be all they can.

I don’t have to go and support him, and can boo him loudly.

To be honest I like roids/ozzie having his pitchers emulate gibson/stealing signs. I want guys who are serious about winning/producing. I don’t want guys like Cabby who couldn’t give a flying f###, and are out to destroy the team I loved and a manager who plays to lose more often than to win.

I will not support this behavior in myself, in others I know and not in the Tigers as well.

By: David

David — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:54:37 +0000

If you’re replying to me/ attempting to make some type of ironic joke, I don’t get it.

By: KS

KS — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:40:22 +0000

Thanks so much Andre… I actually “found” this site around 2005-2006. As for analysis, I’ve been getting that since I was 7 years old in 1979, found Bill James in 1983, and studying sabermetrics ever since. But, thank you of course, there are many on this site who I have learned from along the way.
My issue is the distribution of payroll, and the dead contracts. Paying Nate Robertson a kings ransom isn’t what any sane fan had in mind, Nate being nothing more than a league average pitcher, with a huge rate of balls in play that are subject to large fluctuations. Sheffield was pretty obviously finished, and Dontrelle’s contract was beyond questionable even to casual fans.
That said, I do understand the need to overpay for premier talent earlier in the decade. Pudge’s contract was well worth it, and whether I agree with Magglio getting his contract vested for next year, he has more than served his purpose by getting us into the World Series in ’06, and the monster ’07 season where by rights with average pitching the Tigers would have been in the playoffs. Dombrowski’s decision making is in question from my perspective. Whether Illitch changes course on him frequently I have no way of knowing (does Illitch want to sell out to win every game in a particular year, does Dombrowski want to build long term? Who knows). Whatever the reason, the horrible season of ’08, and the mediocre production in ’09 (when taking into account runs scored and allowed, among a myriad of other factors) put Dombrowski on notice. I’d hate to let the misery of 89-05 influence my expectations. No division titles in 22 years is pretty ridiculous. They don’t exactly have the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, and Angels in the division.

By: KS

KS — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:43:11 +0000

Excellent, well reasoned response. Thank you. Though I may not completely agree with everything you’ve said, your logic to me is quite sound.

By: T Smith

T Smith — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:17:27 +0000

I kinda like DD actually. He takes risks — some thay pay big, some that tank big. No GM is going to reap huge dividends with every move. But I think you need to take some risks and fall every now and then to get the kind of returns the Tigers have enjoyed with some of DD’s moves — I give him a pass, even with his faults… for now.

I don’t know exactly who would be a better candidate than JL. If there were an obvious candidate available for hire perhaps we would be talking about our new manager right now instead of whether or not Jim Leyland should be fired. But just because an obvious candidate isn’t immediately evident to me doesn’t mean there isn’t one out there. The organization should consider its options.

I can’t speak for David, but my point is Jim Leyland is just average, and as long as he’s skipper the Tigers are going to get just average results. It’s very likely JL could lead a team like the NY Yankees to a division title; he may even lead the Tigers to one — but I’m not holding my breath. IMO he does some things right and a lot of things wrong. He’s not the worst manager ever and I’m sure the Tigers could do worse, which is the general response to any criticism of Leyland. But that caliber of manager just isn’t going to win championships. Again, imo.

I know, I know … Leyland has already won a championship and vied for another. He’s an enigma. He can rally the right kind of team and win, e.g. 1997 Florida Marlins and 2006 Tigers (both wild cards and underdogs), which is his forte. Maybe he’s the Tony Robbins of baseball or something — I dunno — which has to count for something. But as far as his actual managerial decisions go, he’s lacking in a big way. This is well documented. Many many people scratch their heads when Jim Leyland pushes some of his buttons — which is fine and well if you win pushing those decisions. But when you consistantly fall short making those decisions, something’s gotta give.

By: KW

KW — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 20:56:38 +0000

You don’t know if the Joe Mauers of the world are doing this or not. Cabrera did something like this back in August, but we just now found out about it. These guys are young, talented, and some of the wealthiest people in the world. I think I’m mostly a stand-up guy, but put me into that situation and who knows what would happen.

Cabrera probably also had a drastically different upbringing than most of us, so who knows what has shaped his personality.

I find it hard to get too upset about all of this. I expect him to address the issues in his personal life, but what else can you say but, “Well, I guess he’s human, too. I hope he doesn’t keep making the same mistake.”

By: Shane Trapped in Toledo

Shane Trapped in Toledo — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 20:18:43 +0000

I am curious, who, in your opinion, are better candidates for General Manager and Head Coach?