Comments on: Game 2009.134: Tigers at Rays http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:06:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129656 billfer Sat, 05 Sep 2009 23:59:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129656 Throwing the ball in the stands was dumb and is deserving of a fine. A 5 game suspension would be an extreme punishment and wouldn't fit the crime. Coolbaugh and Wright aren't good analogies because they are on field personnel. There was a minor league brawl last year that got ugly and a pitcher picked up a ball and used it as a weapon and that ball went in the stands. It is probably a bettyr analogy but unlike Rodney there was intent to harm. Also in Rodneys case the ball went in the press box and not at fans. I really don't think this is a big deal. Dumb yes. Deserving of a punishment, probably. But not a big deal where he was endangering lives. Throwing the ball in the stands was dumb and is deserving of a fine. A 5 game suspension would be an extreme punishment and wouldn’t fit the crime.

Coolbaugh and Wright aren’t good analogies because they are on field personnel. There was a minor league brawl last year that got ugly and a pitcher picked up a ball and used it as a weapon and that ball went in the stands. It is probably a bettyr analogy but unlike Rodney there was intent to harm. Also in Rodneys case the ball went in the press box and not at fans.

I really don’t think this is a big deal. Dumb yes. Deserving of a punishment, probably. But not a big deal where he was endangering lives.

]]> By: Vince in MN http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129650 Vince in MN Sat, 05 Sep 2009 23:09:40 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129650 Is the incident under review by the league or has Rodney indeed been suspended? I have checked around on the internet but haven't seen anything regarding this. Regardless of Rodney's intent, I can see the logic if they do suspend him. In effect, it would be a proactive type of punishment which sends a strong message to EVERYBODY (not just the players, but management as well), to not allow this sort of thing. I don't think fines have the inhibitory effect on bad/thoughtless behavior that a suspension would. A suspension grabs the headlines and everyone pays attention. Is the incident under review by the league or has Rodney indeed been suspended? I have checked around on the internet but haven’t seen anything regarding this.

Regardless of Rodney’s intent, I can see the logic if they do suspend him. In effect, it would be a proactive type of punishment which sends a strong message to EVERYBODY (not just the players, but management as well), to not allow this sort of thing. I don’t think fines have the inhibitory effect on bad/thoughtless behavior that a suspension would. A suspension grabs the headlines and everyone pays attention.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129648 Jeff Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:44:08 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129648 "My example of a batted ball is that those rarely hurt people." "Should outfielders also not throw balls into the stands for fans?" Do you not see the difference between a baseball coming toward someone who is watching the game and someone who is walking to the exit with their back to the field? “My example of a batted ball is that those rarely hurt people.”
“Should outfielders also not throw balls into the stands for fans?”

Do you not see the difference between a baseball coming toward someone who is watching the game and someone who is walking to the exit with their back to the field?

]]> By: Billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129646 Billfer Sat, 05 Sep 2009 21:08:46 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129646 It was dumb but not worthy of a suspension. A fine probably and that would be ok. He didn't chuck it at someone like a weapon. It was thrown up into the stands and not thrown like a pitch. Coolbaugh and David wright aren't particularly germaine for a number of reasons. It was dumb but not worthy of a suspension. A fine probably and that would be ok. He didn’t chuck it at someone like a weapon. It was thrown up into the stands and not thrown like a pitch. Coolbaugh and David wright aren’t particularly germaine for a number of reasons.

]]> By: Adam http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129644 Adam Sat, 05 Sep 2009 18:51:32 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129644 He didn't fire it straight into the stands. Nor did he wind up. Your argument is flawed because he didn't stand up on the mound, wind up, and hurl it straight into the stands. It had arc it would fall to the earth more so than be thrown. That's fine, compare a fastball to a liner. That isn't what happened though. The link you provided was a page full of examples of batted balls. Awesome. That's my point. If a thrown ball was as dangerous something would have happened already. You can give me math, but history is the only example needed. He did not throw a fastball into the stands. You really have to distinguish between a fastball into the stands and a ball just tossed into the stands. He didn’t fire it straight into the stands. Nor did he wind up. Your argument is flawed because he didn’t stand up on the mound, wind up, and hurl it straight into the stands. It had arc it would fall to the earth more so than be thrown. That’s fine, compare a fastball to a liner. That isn’t what happened though.

The link you provided was a page full of examples of batted balls. Awesome. That’s my point. If a thrown ball was as dangerous something would have happened already.

You can give me math, but history is the only example needed. He did not throw a fastball into the stands. You really have to distinguish between a fastball into the stands and a ball just tossed into the stands.

]]> By: RPS http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129643 RPS Sat, 05 Sep 2009 18:37:02 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129643 The initial velocity difference between a liner that goes into the stands and a maximally thrown ball is something like 25%. A batted ball has much more spin on it, thereby losing a significant portion of its kinetic energy to the rotation proper, and the ballistic curvature resulting from that over time. You can do the math if you want, but I just saved you the trouble. A thrown ball has as much, if not more, direct momentum by the time it hits row 7 in section 132. As for the rest, if you believe so strongly that this is not a problem, I've got nothing to convince you otherwise. But seriously, you would be cool with an MLB pitcher throwing heat at you from behind from, say, 155 feet? I wouldn't. Read this if you really want the answer to your question: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1154469/3/index.htm I think I should reiterate: I don't think Rodney meant any harm whatsoever. He pitched badly, and it was a very gut level reaction. But it's just not an okay thing to do. I don't think he'd ever do it again. But he deserves at least a mild punishment. The initial velocity difference between a liner that goes into the stands and a maximally thrown ball is something like 25%. A batted ball has much more spin on it, thereby losing a significant portion of its kinetic energy to the rotation proper, and the ballistic curvature resulting from that over time. You can do the math if you want, but I just saved you the trouble. A thrown ball has as much, if not more, direct momentum by the time it hits row 7 in section 132.

As for the rest, if you believe so strongly that this is not a problem, I’ve got nothing to convince you otherwise. But seriously, you would be cool with an MLB pitcher throwing heat at you from behind from, say, 155 feet? I wouldn’t.

Read this if you really want the answer to your question:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...../index.htm

I think I should reiterate: I don’t think Rodney meant any harm whatsoever. He pitched badly, and it was a very gut level reaction. But it’s just not an okay thing to do. I don’t think he’d ever do it again. But he deserves at least a mild punishment.

]]> By: Adam http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129642 Adam Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:02:51 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129642 Mike Coolbaugh was a coach. On the field. I did ask for a fan in the stands. What the one where Wright got beaned in the head from a ball thrown at his head? If not that one I apologize, but that's not gravity. My example of a batted ball is that those rarely hurt people. The speed of a batted ball and a ball thrown into the stands being brought down by gravity isn't even comparable. Should outfielders also not throw balls into the stands for fans? Usually kids are standing there. Sure they don't fire it as hard but it is thrown. They're kids too with softer heads. Wouldn't want to hurt them. When did society become so weak where we're picking apart Rodney for firing a ball into the stands. It's just a baseball. Mike Coolbaugh was a coach. On the field. I did ask for a fan in the stands.

What the one where Wright got beaned in the head from a ball thrown at his head? If not that one I apologize, but that’s not gravity. My example of a batted ball is that those rarely hurt people. The speed of a batted ball and a ball thrown into the stands being brought down by gravity isn’t even comparable.

Should outfielders also not throw balls into the stands for fans? Usually kids are standing there. Sure they don’t fire it as hard but it is thrown. They’re kids too with softer heads. Wouldn’t want to hurt them.

When did society become so weak where we’re picking apart Rodney for firing a ball into the stands. It’s just a baseball.

]]> By: RPS http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129641 RPS Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:40:49 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129641 Did you see what happened to David Wright? Also a ball brought down by gravity. Now picture Wright as a seventyish guy five beers in with a mesh-backed cap on with his back turned talking to the ump. People aren't paying attention when the game's over. It's kind of a thing. Every team worries about batted balls. But it's kind of a necessary evil, and they tend to only happen during the actual game. Just because people haven't died in this precise way yet doesn't mean that simple and logical precaution is unnecessary. And you realize Mike Coolbaugh was like two years ago, right? Kind of a big and awful story. Did you see what happened to David Wright? Also a ball brought down by gravity. Now picture Wright as a seventyish guy five beers in with a mesh-backed cap on with his back turned talking to the ump. People aren’t paying attention when the game’s over. It’s kind of a thing.

Every team worries about batted balls. But it’s kind of a necessary evil, and they tend to only happen during the actual game.

Just because people haven’t died in this precise way yet doesn’t mean that simple and logical precaution is unnecessary.

And you realize Mike Coolbaugh was like two years ago, right? Kind of a big and awful story.

]]> By: RPS http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129640 RPS Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:31:17 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129640 It was totally intentional. Without malice, I feel, but totally intentional. Keep in mind, dudes like Elijah Dukes play in this league. You have to be careful what you let generally good guys like Rodney do because someone's gonna take it too far eventually. It was totally intentional. Without malice, I feel, but totally intentional. Keep in mind, dudes like Elijah Dukes play in this league. You have to be careful what you let generally good guys like Rodney do because someone’s gonna take it too far eventually.

]]> By: Vince in MN http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129638 Vince in MN Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:06:19 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129638 The problem with Rodney's act is that it can viewed as intentional. The best case is that it was a thoughtless emotional act. But, given that a fan could be injured there is only a slight difference. A batted ball going into the stands is part of the game, throwing one is not. The problem with Rodney’s act is that it can viewed as intentional. The best case is that it was a thoughtless emotional act. But, given that a fan could be injured there is only a slight difference. A batted ball going into the stands is part of the game, throwing one is not.

]]> By: Vince in MN http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129637 Vince in MN Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:50:39 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129637 As it turned out... As it turned out…

]]> By: Adam http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129635 Adam Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:10:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129635 You're worried about Rodney throwing a ball into the stands that will be brought down by gravity, but you're not worried about batted balls? You're joking about killing someone right? Try to find the last time a batted ball killed someone. Can't imagine it was anytime soon. You’re worried about Rodney throwing a ball into the stands that will be brought down by gravity, but you’re not worried about batted balls? You’re joking about killing someone right? Try to find the last time a batted ball killed someone. Can’t imagine it was anytime soon.

]]> By: RPS http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129634 RPS Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:05:51 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129634 Did it seem to anyone else that Avila was doing an exceptionally poor job of framing pitches? He was jumping out of his crouch and lunging at pitches two inches off the plate. I think a couple balls to the first two batters were strikes (or at least close enough to maybe get the call), but the ump had no chance to call a strike with the amount of movement coming from Avila. There was definitely one to Bartlett where, just from watching Avila, I assumed the pitch was about a foot and a half outside and in the dirt. It ended up being really, really, close to the zone. I think Avila was making pitches into balls well before they crossed the plate. If Laird could just hit a little tiny bit, he would be super-awesome-guy. If we're gonna sacrifice D for offense (which was probably the right call), can it be Inge sometimes? Please? Did it seem to anyone else that Avila was doing an exceptionally poor job of framing pitches? He was jumping out of his crouch and lunging at pitches two inches off the plate. I think a couple balls to the first two batters were strikes (or at least close enough to maybe get the call), but the ump had no chance to call a strike with the amount of movement coming from Avila. There was definitely one to Bartlett where, just from watching Avila, I assumed the pitch was about a foot and a half outside and in the dirt. It ended up being really, really, close to the zone. I think Avila was making pitches into balls well before they crossed the plate.

If Laird could just hit a little tiny bit, he would be super-awesome-guy. If we’re gonna sacrifice D for offense (which was probably the right call), can it be Inge sometimes? Please?

]]> By: RPS http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129633 RPS Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:31:24 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129633 Oh, Fernando. You can't steam the ball into the stands like that. Never in a million years would I think he had any sort of evil intent behind it. Fernando seems to be a very emotional creature. I would, however, understand if he's suspended for five days. That's just the sort of thing that, if tolerated, kills a fan eventually. It would suck to lose him for a week for one exuberant outburst that hurt no one, but it becomes dangerous ground very quickly. Oh, Fernando. You can’t steam the ball into the stands like that. Never in a million years would I think he had any sort of evil intent behind it. Fernando seems to be a very emotional creature. I would, however, understand if he’s suspended for five days. That’s just the sort of thing that, if tolerated, kills a fan eventually. It would suck to lose him for a week for one exuberant outburst that hurt no one, but it becomes dangerous ground very quickly.

]]> By: Kathy http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129632 Kathy Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:25:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/09/game-2009-134-tigers-at-rays/#comment-129632 He sure didn't have his best stuff and control. Miraculously, he got out of it. He needs a day off, which reportedly Leland is going to give him. I'd only be concerned if it (his walks, etc.) happens again in his next game. He has had tendonitis problems in the past. He sure didn’t have his best stuff and control. Miraculously, he got out of it. He needs a day off, which reportedly Leland is going to give him. I’d only be concerned if it (his walks, etc.) happens again in his next game. He has had tendonitis problems in the past.

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