Look, we can all agree that had Youkilis not charged, Porcello — probably, though not definitely — wouldn’t have been ejected. But I think people arguing the ejection are standing on pretty weak ground:

– whether or not Youkilis charged doesn’t lessen Porcello’s culpability. if I swing at someone at a bar, I probably just get thrown out. But when the other guy decks me in response, starting a fight, we might both get arrested. It’s no defense that my provoking caused him to fly off the handle and that I wouldn’t have been arrested if he hadn’t reacted.

– also, it was foreseeable that this would happen – Youkilis had been hit the night before, you knew he was pissed about it, and you’ve already raised the tension by coming inside on Martinez. The Tigers had to have known there’s a good chance this would happen (whether youkilis was right or wrong to charge), so it’s hard to have sympathy for Porcello in light of this.

I hear what you’re saying, but there is a precedent already where pitchers who intentionally throw at guys don’t get ejected. Is there any doubt that Jackson was retaliating the night before? Yet he wasn’t ejected and most the time pitchers aren’t. They tend to only get ejected either a) after a warning or b) if the batter charges the mound.

The precedent for an automatic ejection on an intentional HBP hasn’t been set yet.

Unless you’re saying you KNOW Porcello’s was intentional, whereas the others weren’t. Based on what?

And THAT is the purpose of the warning. Not to tell the pitchers they shouldn’t intentionally hit a batter (which should be sort of obvious), but to tell the pitchers, look, hit a batter and you’re gone, we’re not going to bother worrying if you meant it or not. The point of the warning is to remove the burden of guessing intention from the umpires and negate the whole retaliation game.

You say pitchers need to pitch inside, but seem all for the retaliation that occurs when those types of pitches aren’t executed well. For me the retaliation is the base awarded, no need to continue escalating things.

This is my problem with the whole retaliation business. Clearly Jackson’s *message* wasn’t heard, so what’s the point? Why risk having your own players ejected?

The only downside of the AL is all these innocent bystanders (batters) paying for the transgressions of their pitchers.

“Whether Tazawa meant to hit Cabby or not (he didn’t) is irrelevant … It’s about protecting your players”

Actually, I think its very relevant. Cabrera got hit yesterday because of a checked swing, he didn’t get plunked in the back or something that would indicate intent. But that’s the whole problem with the notion that retaliation for hit-batters is about “protecting your players”. First, it assumes that if you don’t retaliate, opposing teams will just start drilling your players willy-nilly. Second, as yesterday shows, its hard to keep score; does the inside pitch count as retaliation or do you have to successfully plunk the other team? To me its too much effort to figure out what’s intentional vs. bad control.

I’d much rather people just take their bases, unless you’re playing in a fantasy league that doesn’t count OBP or BB…

EDIT: As a team featuring Verlander, one of the leagues premier plunkers for the last few years, we shouldn’t get so high on our “protecting-the-players horse” lest we reap what JV sows.