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	<title>Comments on: Game 2009.122: Tigers at A&#8217;s</title>
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	<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/</link>
	<description>News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:06:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: billfer</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128133</link>
		<dc:creator>billfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128133</guid>
		<description>Actually it isn&#039;t meaningless. It&#039;s not indicative of talent but it does indicate that Inge has picked his spots quite well to deliver the maximum impact this year. I&#039;m not saying that Inge has done this on purpose. I&#039;d say it is much more likely this is coincidence than a plan on Inge&#039;s part. 

Fangraphs publishes a stat called &quot;Clutch&quot; and using win probability it looks at a players performance in high leverage situation relative to the same player&#039;s performance in all other situations. A positive number means said player raises his game with more on the line and a negative number means a player performs worse. A high clutch number doesn&#039;t indicate a good player, just one who does much better in high leverage situations. 

Inge is second on the team at .78 (and 11th in the AL). This is partly because of the stat that Coleman stated with all the go ahead hits. It&#039;s also partly because of Inge&#039;s overall numbers which Stephen cites that Inge doesn&#039;t hit very good giving him a lower baseline overall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually it isn&#8217;t meaningless. It&#8217;s not indicative of talent but it does indicate that Inge has picked his spots quite well to deliver the maximum impact this year. I&#8217;m not saying that Inge has done this on purpose. I&#8217;d say it is much more likely this is coincidence than a plan on Inge&#8217;s part. </p>
<p>Fangraphs publishes a stat called &#8220;Clutch&#8221; and using win probability it looks at a players performance in high leverage situation relative to the same player&#8217;s performance in all other situations. A positive number means said player raises his game with more on the line and a negative number means a player performs worse. A high clutch number doesn&#8217;t indicate a good player, just one who does much better in high leverage situations. </p>
<p>Inge is second on the team at .78 (and 11th in the AL). This is partly because of the stat that Coleman stated with all the go ahead hits. It&#8217;s also partly because of Inge&#8217;s overall numbers which Stephen cites that Inge doesn&#8217;t hit very good giving him a lower baseline overall.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128131</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128131</guid>
		<description>Were you under the impression that most fans are rational or that they look at meaningful stats? He&#039;s the type of player that casual fans (of any team) like -- he plays almost every day, plays good defense, hits home runs, is home-grown, and is one of the only holdovers from when they sucked. It&#039;s not really surprising.

Inge is an average major league 3rd baseman when accounting for offense and defense combined -- nothing more, nothing less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were you under the impression that most fans are rational or that they look at meaningful stats? He&#8217;s the type of player that casual fans (of any team) like &#8212; he plays almost every day, plays good defense, hits home runs, is home-grown, and is one of the only holdovers from when they sucked. It&#8217;s not really surprising.</p>
<p>Inge is an average major league 3rd baseman when accounting for offense and defense combined &#8212; nothing more, nothing less.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128130</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128130</guid>
		<description>For whatever reason, Tiger fans love Inge. Maybe it&#039;s because he&#039;s a white guy who knows. But their love known no bounds and seemingly forgives the fact his batting average is one of the lowest in the majors for batters receiving 2000 plus at-bats this decade. Throw in the fact that he pouted like a two-year-old when they moved him back to catcher after acquiring a potential Hall of Famer. Love him if you want, but the guy has exactly one OPS season above 100. But that love isn&#039;t based on the numbers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For whatever reason, Tiger fans love Inge. Maybe it&#8217;s because he&#8217;s a white guy who knows. But their love known no bounds and seemingly forgives the fact his batting average is one of the lowest in the majors for batters receiving 2000 plus at-bats this decade. Throw in the fact that he pouted like a two-year-old when they moved him back to catcher after acquiring a potential Hall of Famer. Love him if you want, but the guy has exactly one OPS season above 100. But that love isn&#8217;t based on the numbers</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128129</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128129</guid>
		<description>Coleman,  keep clinging to that go ahead stat like a man clinging to a buoy in a hurricane! That&#039;s a pretty meaningless stat because it doesn&#039;t suggest the pressure of this situation. I believe Inge is batting .185 with two outs and runners in scoring position is more relevant.
Obviously, I&#039;m not saying he can&#039;t bat elsewhere. But if you have two guys sucking wind at #8 and #9, you can&#039;t afford to have your third baseman batting below the Mendoza line for two months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coleman,  keep clinging to that go ahead stat like a man clinging to a buoy in a hurricane! That&#8217;s a pretty meaningless stat because it doesn&#8217;t suggest the pressure of this situation. I believe Inge is batting .185 with two outs and runners in scoring position is more relevant.<br />
Obviously, I&#8217;m not saying he can&#8217;t bat elsewhere. But if you have two guys sucking wind at #8 and #9, you can&#8217;t afford to have your third baseman batting below the Mendoza line for two months.</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128125</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128125</guid>
		<description>OK, obviously I already admitted I&#039;m not a math buff, but here&#039;s a story problem anyway for Stephen.  If a team has a stat like this:

Go-Ahead Hits: (hits where the team went from tied or behind to ahead)

Brandon Inge - 16
Miguel Cabrera - 13
Curtis Granderson - 11
Placido Polanco - 10
Clete Thomas - 9
Ryan Raburn - 9

And the person at the top of the list is the team&#039;s worst hitter, would the team have won more or fewer games without that player in the lineup?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, obviously I already admitted I&#8217;m not a math buff, but here&#8217;s a story problem anyway for Stephen.  If a team has a stat like this:</p>
<p>Go-Ahead Hits: (hits where the team went from tied or behind to ahead)</p>
<p>Brandon Inge &#8211; 16<br />
Miguel Cabrera &#8211; 13<br />
Curtis Granderson &#8211; 11<br />
Placido Polanco &#8211; 10<br />
Clete Thomas &#8211; 9<br />
Ryan Raburn &#8211; 9</p>
<p>And the person at the top of the list is the team&#8217;s worst hitter, would the team have won more or fewer games without that player in the lineup?</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128124</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128124</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not much at math so I&#039;ll leave that for others...instead I&#039;ll look at the interesting logical proposition at the end...

So are you saying he is a great defensive 3rd baseman if you can bat him 9th---but not otherwise?  That would seem to be a strange logic, judging his defense based on his batting...yet the gold glove voters seem to do something similar (although that itself is often referred to as illogical).  Of course your statement isn&#039;t exclusive--so just because you say he is a great defensive 3rd baseman if you can bat him 9th doesn&#039;t mean you are saying he is NOT a great defensive 3rd baseman if you bat him somewhere else.

At any rate, no need to worry.  I have done a lot of research, looked at rules, procedures, contracts, the whole bit, and it turns out that in fact they CAN bat him 9th, they just haven&#039;t chosen yet to do so.  So problem solved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not much at math so I&#8217;ll leave that for others&#8230;instead I&#8217;ll look at the interesting logical proposition at the end&#8230;</p>
<p>So are you saying he is a great defensive 3rd baseman if you can bat him 9th&#8212;but not otherwise?  That would seem to be a strange logic, judging his defense based on his batting&#8230;yet the gold glove voters seem to do something similar (although that itself is often referred to as illogical).  Of course your statement isn&#8217;t exclusive&#8211;so just because you say he is a great defensive 3rd baseman if you can bat him 9th doesn&#8217;t mean you are saying he is NOT a great defensive 3rd baseman if you bat him somewhere else.</p>
<p>At any rate, no need to worry.  I have done a lot of research, looked at rules, procedures, contracts, the whole bit, and it turns out that in fact they CAN bat him 9th, they just haven&#8217;t chosen yet to do so.  So problem solved.</p>
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		<title>By: jb61973</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128123</link>
		<dc:creator>jb61973</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128123</guid>
		<description>THis is not smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THis is not smart.</p>
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		<title>By: The Voice of Reason</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128121</link>
		<dc:creator>The Voice of Reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128121</guid>
		<description>Leyland takes a lot of abuse, some of it justified, but bringing in Miner last night was good managing.

Yes, he could have brought in Ni, Seay, Lyon or Rodney. But what he knew, though he wouldn&#039;t, couldn&#039;t ever say it, was that the Tigers were extremely unlikely to score again. They had scored in two separate innings already. The odds of them scoring in a 3rd would have to be considered  infinitesimal. If he brings in those other pitchers and they are all successful for one inning each (no guarantee there by the way, but play along), guess what? You still get to Miner in the 13th. So you burn four pitchers for what would, inevitably, be the same result.

So in his mind, the game was already lost. Why not bring Miner in and get it over with? He knows that he has a 5 inning pitcher going the next day and he will need the bullpen in what may end up a winnable game. Leyland knew that the Tigers couldn&#039;t win last night. What he was trying to do was not lose today&#039;s game at the same time. Yes, it sets him up for criticism, but it was the right thing to do from a longer term perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leyland takes a lot of abuse, some of it justified, but bringing in Miner last night was good managing.</p>
<p>Yes, he could have brought in Ni, Seay, Lyon or Rodney. But what he knew, though he wouldn&#8217;t, couldn&#8217;t ever say it, was that the Tigers were extremely unlikely to score again. They had scored in two separate innings already. The odds of them scoring in a 3rd would have to be considered  infinitesimal. If he brings in those other pitchers and they are all successful for one inning each (no guarantee there by the way, but play along), guess what? You still get to Miner in the 13th. So you burn four pitchers for what would, inevitably, be the same result.</p>
<p>So in his mind, the game was already lost. Why not bring Miner in and get it over with? He knows that he has a 5 inning pitcher going the next day and he will need the bullpen in what may end up a winnable game. Leyland knew that the Tigers couldn&#8217;t win last night. What he was trying to do was not lose today&#8217;s game at the same time. Yes, it sets him up for criticism, but it was the right thing to do from a longer term perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Jud</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128118</link>
		<dc:creator>Jud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 07:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128118</guid>
		<description>Edit: obviously I meant  has he EVER pitched a 9th in relief</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edit: obviously I meant  has he EVER pitched a 9th in relief</p>
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		<title>By: Jud</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128117</link>
		<dc:creator>Jud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128117</guid>
		<description>it would be interesting to find out if Miner has every, in his major league career, been used in a 9th inning relief role,...........what was Smokey Thinking????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it would be interesting to find out if Miner has every, in his major league career, been used in a 9th inning relief role,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..what was Smokey Thinking????</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128116</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 04:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128116</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a story problem for math buffs.

If Brandon Inge bats .237 over the course of a decade-long career and then bats .238 in 2009 including .222 since May 1 and is on track to become the Tigers all-time strikeout king in August of 2010, how many times will he be named an all-star?
Please show work for full credit!




Sorry, he is a great defensive 3rd baseman IF you can bat him 9th.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a story problem for math buffs.</p>
<p>If Brandon Inge bats .237 over the course of a decade-long career and then bats .238 in 2009 including .222 since May 1 and is on track to become the Tigers all-time strikeout king in August of 2010, how many times will he be named an all-star?<br />
Please show work for full credit!</p>
<p>Sorry, he is a great defensive 3rd baseman IF you can bat him 9th.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry the Tiger Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128115</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry the Tiger Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 04:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128115</guid>
		<description>Will we ever win another road series in 2009?  This team just can&#039;t hit/score.  I don&#039;t know why tomorrow will be any diofferent.  Tomko shut down a good Yankess lineup, God only knows what he&#039;ll do to us tomorrow afternoon.  It really is perplexing to be held to two runs or less 36 times this year.  I know our lineup doesn&#039;t compare to New York or Boston&#039;s, but it really should be able to at least be a middle of the pack team in runs scored (currently 11th out of 14).  If we were just average in scoring runs, say 7th in the league,  we&#039;d probably be 5.5 games up instead of 2.5 games.  Even Huff seems to have caught whatever ails our hitters.  I&#039;d feel a lot better if we win tomorrow, but I&#039;m not holding my breath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will we ever win another road series in 2009?  This team just can&#8217;t hit/score.  I don&#8217;t know why tomorrow will be any diofferent.  Tomko shut down a good Yankess lineup, God only knows what he&#8217;ll do to us tomorrow afternoon.  It really is perplexing to be held to two runs or less 36 times this year.  I know our lineup doesn&#8217;t compare to New York or Boston&#8217;s, but it really should be able to at least be a middle of the pack team in runs scored (currently 11th out of 14).  If we were just average in scoring runs, say 7th in the league,  we&#8217;d probably be 5.5 games up instead of 2.5 games.  Even Huff seems to have caught whatever ails our hitters.  I&#8217;d feel a lot better if we win tomorrow, but I&#8217;m not holding my breath.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128114</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128114</guid>
		<description>With the way Kennedy was hitting, Ni or Seay would&#039;ve made sense to start the 9th.  I don&#039;t think anyone is surprised that Miner couldn&#039;t get the job done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the way Kennedy was hitting, Ni or Seay would&#8217;ve made sense to start the 9th.  I don&#8217;t think anyone is surprised that Miner couldn&#8217;t get the job done.</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128113</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128113</guid>
		<description>Well, we still suck on the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we still suck on the road.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128111</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/08/game-2009-122-tigers-at-as/#comment-128111</guid>
		<description>disappointed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>disappointed.</p>
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