Game 2009.002: Tigers at Blue Jays

PREGAME: Well let’s not have a repeat of last night’s debacle. And I’m not talking about the throwing of stuff on the field, which may be curtailed because the stadium will be dry tonight. No, I’m talking about the beat down the Tigers took as the Blue Jays pummeled pitch after pitch into the gaps.

Edwin Jackson makes his debut for the Tigers tonight. He’s faced Blue Jays quite a bit from his days in the AL East. Adam Lind and Alex Rios are both slugging over .600 against him, so that doesn’t necessarily bode well. He has held hitters to a .228/.312/.431 line in SkyDome though.

Lefty David Purcey gets then nod for the Blue Jays. Purcey made 12 starts last year and he posted a solid strike out rate (8.03/9IP), and a decent K/BB ratio (2.0), but he did give up 9 homers in 65 innings leading to a 5.54 ERA.

Game Time 7:07

Detroit vs. Toronto – April 7, 2009 | MLB.com: Gameday

POSTGAME
: New faces, same results. Yesterday it was Juan Rincon. Today, Brandon Lyon.

Edwin Jackson was awesome, stunningly awesome. His efficiency and the way he pounded the strike zone was a sight to behold. Unfortunately it was all for naught as Brandon Lyon imploded.

He had some help. Brandon Inge extended the inning with a throwing error. And a ground ball was just out of Adam Everett’s reach. And the pitch that led to the 3 run homer was actually down in the zone. But the 9th inning was all Lyon.

Other stuff of note:

  • Miguel Cabrera had himself a very nice game. A couple walks and a missle to center on the offensive side and two slick plays defensively.
  • Inge’s error sucked, but he also accounted for half of the offense and that homer was an absolute bomb.
  • Bobby Seay did what he was supposed to.

200 Comments

  1. jason

    April 7, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Huh. No drinking in a ballpark… It’ll be like going to a college sporting event.

  2. Fritz

    April 7, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    My prediction: Lots of tiny bottles in the garbage at Rogers Centre.

  3. Dave T.

    April 7, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    I sure hope Jackson doesn’t wave off every pitch Laird calls like JV did last night. I wonder if that is the part of the ‘learning to know you ‘ process.

  4. Brian

    April 7, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Didn’t get a chance to see the game last night, but if JV was shaking off pitches called by Laird then it better be the last time he does that. If I were Laird I would have quit giving signs and told the idiot to throw whatever sounded good to him. The coaching staff needs to step in here and get JV to simply trust his stuff and trust his catcher. I have pitched a little in the past and rarely shook off the catcher – no need because I trusted him. Besides, if I throw the pitch where it is supposed to be thrown then no problem – I win, hitter loses. JV needs to disengage his brain and just pitch!

  5. Mark in Chicago

    April 7, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    I watched JV’s innings last night and he had good velocity and decent movement, but left everything up in the zone. The Jays hit him hard, and it’s not surprising considering the location. It’s tough for me to tell, but Rod noted that when JV backed off his velocity to 92-93, he had more movement and an easier time keeping the ball down.

    Hopefully we get better results next time.

  6. Andre in Chi

    April 7, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Mark,

    Was it just me, or did Laird seem to have to stretch a little too often to catch the ball last night? JVs location seemed way off at times.

  7. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Gill Meche throws a 7 inning gem vs the White Sox. Then like Deja Vu, Farnsworth blows it big time for KC. Gave up a 3 run bomb to Thome in the 8th inning.

    I’m so glad Farnworth is not pitching for Detroit again.

  8. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    Am I the only one that likes Brandon Inge’s new batting stance? It’s bugging me, I can’t think of the name, but his new batting stance reminds me of someone? Who is it?

  9. Skip

    April 7, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    Mr. X- possible Ramon Santiago bats like this…?
    Craig Council had a similar stance… I think…

  10. Skip

    April 7, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    And… The stance is working for him!!

  11. Skip

    April 7, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Question:
    Who threw out the Ceremonial First Pitch on Opening Day for the Tigers?

  12. Chris

    April 7, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    “I’m so glad Farnworth is not pitching for Detroit again.”

    Yea, and what’s even better is that he is going to pitch against the Tigers within the division. I think we have 16 games against the Royals. It would be nice to see Farnworth in at least 9 of those.

  13. Tbone

    April 7, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    Here’s the lineup, featuring Country Strong, as promised:

    Granderson, CF
    Polanco, 2B
    Ordonez, RF
    Cabrera, 1B
    Guillen, LF
    Laird, C
    Thames, DH
    Inge, 3B
    Everett, SS

  14. Dave BW

    April 7, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    Mr. X: the stance is driving me nuts, too — I swear I saw someone else using it in the Mets/Reds game yesterday.

  15. Dave BW

    April 7, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    I’m convinced Farnsworth is trying to destroy me. First he gets shelled in his setup gig for the Tigers, then he promptly jumps to my other team and stinks up the joint there, too. Someday, Farnsworth, revenge will be mine!

  16. Chris

    April 7, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Your “other team” is the Royals? What? the Indians, White Sox and Twins just aren’t good enough for you?

  17. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Was it Stan Papi?

  18. ohio tiger

    April 7, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    anyone else tired of “April in the D” already?

  19. ohio tiger

    April 7, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    wow, i forgot what 1-2-3 first inning looked like

  20. Tbone

    April 7, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Nice start for EJ…

  21. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    I think this Edwin Jackson kid throws just like a young John Smoltz.

  22. Tony P

    April 7, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    “I’m so glad Farnworth is not pitching for Detroit again.”

    That was Farnsworth who gave up the Thome homer?!!? I should have guessed. I think I’ll draft in my fantasy suck league tonight.

  23. Dave BW

    April 7, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    No, Chris, they are not. For one thing, those teams don’t wear powder blue sometimes.

  24. Dave BW

    April 7, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Frankly, I’m impressed that they found an April in the D song even worse than the last one.

  25. Dave BW

    April 7, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Woohoo! Someone on the Tigers actually read a scouting report and told Jackson to throw low sliders to Lind.

  26. Dave BW

    April 7, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    Jackson through two innings: 20 strikes, 4 balls.

  27. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    Awesome. A near homerun leadoff double is stranded.

  28. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    I can get use to this. So far, nothing but strikes from Jackson.

  29. Dave BW

    April 7, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    BINGE! Double to left

    Granderson sacs in the run

  30. Chris

    April 7, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    Some good small-ball is nice to see

  31. David

    April 7, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    DOUBLE FOR INGE BABY!!! after the opposite field hr yesterday!

    nice by Everett and Grandy to get him around and in.

  32. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    Now that’s some good baseball.

  33. Dylan

    April 7, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    Gotta love how Jackson pounds the zone. I haven’t really seen him pitch much. Should we expect this night in and night out?

  34. Tbone

    April 7, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    THIS Tiger team I could get used to…

  35. David

    April 7, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    Mr X.

    Julio Franco’s stance is somewhat similar to Inge’s – especially the bat pointed kinda towards the pitcher

    Franco
    http://farm1.static.flickr.com.....25.jpg?v=0

  36. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    Did anyone see Dombrowski’s shirt? What in the world was that?

  37. Anson

    April 7, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    Alright gents, I think Mr. Jackson needs a nickname. Any thoughts?

  38. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    Lets leave that one up to the genius mind of Rod Allen. He’ll undoubtedly have one by the end of Jackson’s next start.

  39. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    Jackson is “the thriller”!

  40. Coleman

    April 7, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    I predict one of either the radio/TV/Free Press guys refers to him as “Action Jackson” in the next 24 hours…

  41. Coleman

    April 7, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    We could try Edwin. As in Ed-WIN (hopefully…)

  42. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Dude has some velocity on his pitches with pretty good movement. According to Gameday, that is.

  43. Chris

    April 7, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    I hated losing Joyce, but I think I’m going to end up liking this trade. I do tonight.

  44. Anson

    April 7, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    I could see Action Jackson but I agree Rod will come up with something.

  45. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    PLACIDO WILL NOT GO HITLESS THIS YEAR. NO WAY.

  46. Coleman

    April 7, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    And he has only thrown 50 PITCHES (= less bullpen, which is a very good thing). If I’m Jackson and I get pulled for pitch count with a 1-hitter I might have to kick some stuff).

  47. Coleman

    April 7, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    At least we’re being a little more creative about how we pull off the inning-ending double-plays…

  48. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Can someone summarize what the negatives/bad wrap on Jackson is? Thanks.

  49. Tbone

    April 7, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Quality Start!

    I have to say, I thought giving up Joyce was a huge mistake. But if we get this kind of performance with any consistency it was well worth it.

  50. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Jackson was wild with his fastball last year, hence the 70+ walks. He obviously has it under control tonight. Plus, he gave up a homerun to a pitcher in the World Series. Ouch.

    I loved this trade from the beginning, based solely on my lack of hope for Joyce. He was clueless on breaking balls.

  51. Kyle J

    April 7, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    You know, as much as the small ball stuff doesn’t make any sense by the numbers, I’m just going to go ahead and embrace it. With this lineup and Leyland running the show, we’re going to get a steady dose of it all year. Might as well revel in it.

  52. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Free Marcus Thames!
    Wow. That last play belonged in the 2008 Tigers library.

  53. Coleman

    April 7, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Boy would I liked to have seen Laird drop a nice bunt down in that situation…

  54. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    Man was that sloppy!

  55. David

    April 7, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    HAHA INGE INTENTIONAL WALK!!! doesn’t even have to swing the bat

    wow bad throwing

  56. Coleman

    April 7, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    Ha! Thames makes it all better! And we know Inge is dangerous with runners on 2-3…do they IW him?

  57. Tbone

    April 7, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Dombrowski looks like he’s wearing a Man Bra…

  58. Tom

    April 7, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    I am enjoying this thoroughly.

  59. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Jaction needs to keep cruising. My stomach can’t handle the Tigers bullpen quite yet.

  60. Joel in Seattle

    April 7, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Tbone:

    It’s called a Bro.

  61. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    Manzier!

  62. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Some prefer the man-zere, Joel. Tbone was close.

  63. David

    April 7, 2009 at 9:05 pm

  64. Tbone

    April 7, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    How many times did a Tigers starter start the 8th inning last year?

  65. David

    April 7, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    @ Tbone

    Not enough

  66. Dylan

    April 7, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Ugh…. Let’s not blow this. JAckson ready to go out of the game hahah.

  67. Tbone

    April 7, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    Heh.

    Kramer gets the last word!

  68. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    MLB.com now literally has “Action Jackson” on the main page.

  69. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Nice game for EJax. Now it’s time to hold our breaths.

  70. scotsw

    April 7, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    There was a little standing ovation here for Jackson when Leyland pulled him… C’mon bullpen.

  71. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    @Brian P

    At least we know where it originated from. Those bastards must read this chat.

  72. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    Here comes Mr. Back-to-back-to-back-to-back.

  73. Tom

    April 7, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    Lyons is henceforth “Roller Coaster II.”

  74. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    WTF

  75. David

    April 7, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    LYON ********************************************

  76. Dylan

    April 7, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Guess these are the same old Tigers…

  77. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Jeeeeeez. He hung two in a row.

  78. Tbone

    April 7, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    An absolute shame.

  79. David

    April 7, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    Why the **************** is he in instead of Perry? or heck Jackson

    Again Leyland yanks a guy too early, if we lose this game half the credit goes to Leyland

  80. Skip

    April 7, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    Noooooooo!!!
    Lyon! R u kidding me?!?!

    Here we go again…
    Crappy bullpen killing us again!!

  81. scotsw

    April 7, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    Ugh. Sorry about losing the “W” Ed-WIN. Not a bad pitch from Lyon, though, to be fair. Good hitting.

  82. Clanks

    April 7, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    Brandon “Farnsworth” Lyon

    *disbelief*

  83. Tony P

    April 7, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    waive Lyon Now

  84. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    The Poor D from Inge and Everett is what kills me.

  85. Steve from Det

    April 7, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    Dylan not the same old Tigers. But man, Lyon really made me think tonight. Did we sign the correct reliever? Man this bites, What an incredible night for Edwin and our other new guy Lyon gives up a 3 friggin run homer to the Jays. Count this another lose unless we can somehow score on BJ Ryan, which i say, probably not.

    Ill give this a 90% certainty a lose tonight. Thank you Edwin for a great debut. And thank you Lyon for the lose.

    Oh yea and hi everyone, Im back for the season!!

  86. Joel in Seattle

    April 7, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    Roller coasters go up AND down. Not sure Lyon has that capability yet.

  87. David

    April 7, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    waive Leyland, he took Jackson out after he gets two ground balls in the inning and was pitching a helluva game

    LEYLAND always complains about having to take guys out too early… HE IS THE ONE WHO YANKS THEM

  88. Clanks

    April 7, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    INGEY!!!

  89. Skip

    April 7, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Inge!!

    The stance is definatly working!!!

  90. Brian P

    April 7, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Wow, wow, wow. Shelton! … I mean, Inge!

  91. David

    April 7, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    BRANDON INGE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOOM BABY

  92. Steve from Det

    April 7, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    BINGE is BANGING SOME BASEBALLS THIS YEAR!!! Go Inge Go!!!

  93. Joel in Seattle

    April 7, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    INGE!

  94. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Inge with a couple bad throws. Everett letting the ball go threw the middle. We gave them 5 outs that inning.

  95. Mith

    April 7, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Agreed, Mr. X. Out top notch defense set the stage for the HR off of Lyon.

    At least Inge makes it a new game.

  96. Mike in CT

    April 7, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Lyon has a the unfortunate look of the unholy spawn of Jason Grili and Todd Jones. Yuck.

  97. Tyler

    April 7, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    I don’t believe that’s Brandon Inge.

  98. Mith

    April 7, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Agreed, Mr. X. Our top notch defense set the stage for the HR off of Lyon.

    At least Inge makes it a new game.

  99. scotsw

    April 7, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Homer B-INGE

  100. Coleman

    April 7, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Inge makes it all better….good thing he can hit, it makes people willing to overlook the shaky fielding…

  101. Mike in CT

    April 7, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    Good thing BJ Ryan is topping off at about 79 on the gun these days.

  102. 4everfromtheD

    April 7, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    It is gonna be one of those years folks. Gotta love our Tigers. Always a Tiger!

  103. Tom

    April 7, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    Lyons is still pitching. Can’t bear to watch, knowing the inevitable is coming.

  104. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    Argh. Lyon is still in…

  105. A J

    April 7, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Why is Lyon back in the 9th?…..he is supposed to be the set-up man…..for who….the opposition!

  106. Skip

    April 7, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Can’t wait for Fernando “Oops-their-goes-the-game” Rodney to come in…
    *sarcasm*

  107. mcb

    April 7, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    It feels like they replaced the same pitchers they got rid of. Sigh.

  108. A J

    April 7, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    FACT;Leyland does not know how to manage a pitching staff!

  109. Tony P

    April 7, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    Wait…Lyon is still pitching??? I thought we waived him!

  110. Kathy

    April 7, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    I never want to look at Brandon Lyon again. Bad enough in Spring Training. What did they think they were going to get with this guy. HR, HR, HR, HR. He just sucks.

  111. Mike in CT

    April 7, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    Looking at the pained expression on Lyon’s face, it’s as if he’s reading these comments in his head.

  112. Tony P

    April 7, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    Is it possible to blow 2 saves in one game?

  113. Kathy

    April 7, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    I’m shutting it off. Can’t take it.

  114. Tom

    April 7, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    I don’t understand this. Lyon had a crappy spring, ended poorly. We got a new guy with a sub-.100 ERA, yet he’s sitting in the bullpen picking his nose. This is unbelievable.

  115. mcb

    April 7, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    I’m in disbelief Lyon was left in this game.

  116. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    I already hate the dude from watching him on gameday. His pitch specs remind me of one Todd Jones.

  117. Dylan

    April 7, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    Why is Lyon still in there? Anyone?

  118. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    I am just waiting to see the “in play, run(s)” message pop up.

  119. Steve from Det

    April 7, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    I stil give us a 85% chance on losing this game with bases juiced. For barajas.

    Should be interesting. Lyon flyball HR reliever vs low avg no HR power Catcher….

    50/50 on who wins that round.

  120. Tony P

    April 7, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    And he is still in because…..?

  121. Tom

    April 7, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Please, God let him walk in the winning run. That would make this day complete.

  122. Skip

    April 7, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    *crossed fingers*

  123. Slick from Sinfest

    April 7, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    I’m saying walk off walk

  124. Chris

    April 7, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Leyland is managing himself right out of a job. Brandon Lyon is hideous.

  125. Brenden

    April 7, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    Why is Lyon still in??? This is suicide!

  126. Tyler

    April 7, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    Awesome.

  127. Mike in CT

    April 7, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    Two games in and back to square one….unbelievable.

  128. Skip

    April 7, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    Praying to God, Mary, Jesus, Jospeh, Buddha, Allah, heck, anyone!!!!
    Just win this game!!!

    Never mind….
    Sac fly… I hate you Lyon…

  129. mcb

    April 7, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    Leyland should be fired

  130. ouchudied

    April 7, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    And there is the message. Thanks, Brandon.

  131. Tom

    April 7, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    Fire Leyland right now. How demoralizing. 0-7 last year, and we’re on the same trajectory now. Why the **** wasn’t Perry brought in on relief in the 8th? Why the hell was Lyons allowed to keep pitching after giving up the lead-changing 3-run HR? This is unexcusable.

  132. Dave BW

    April 7, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    Welcome to the Tigers, Edwin.

  133. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    I blame Inge, Everett, and Lyon. Leyland did everything right. Jackson was done. He even looked like he wanted to leave one batter earlier. Seay done his job. Then Lyon should of gotten out of it, but Everett misplayed a ball. For the 9th inning, Leyland can’t put Perry in that situation for his MLB debut, and he wanted to save the closer (Rodney) for a save situation if it goes into xtra innings. His only real option was using Nate Robertson and that wouldn’t of made much sense either because he’d be putting a lefty in to pitch against all them right handed hitters.

  134. mp

    April 7, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    no repeat. instead leyland loses the game by bringing in lyon who gives up a 3 run hr and the winning run. Left Seay in for 1 batter?!?! 1?!?! he could’ve finished the inning! and don’t bring in Lyon! Bring in Perry and let him pitch in his first major league game.

    Oh this makes me very angry

  135. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Perry will probably make his debut in a low pressure situation. He’s already going to be nervous as hell.

  136. Sam

    April 7, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    I am perplexed by Leyland.

    If a guy pitches well, like Nate striking out 2 out of 3 last night, he pulls him. Rincon starts the 8th and gives up 3 critical runs.

    Now I don’t blame Leyland for Hills HR, those things happen, Lyon is your 8th inning guy and should of been out of the inning!

    But, why bring him in for the 9th. Lyon wasn’t folling anyone in the 8th and obviously did not have his good stuff tonight! Leyland cannot manage a bullpen for his life!

  137. LeylandSucks

    April 7, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    I feel sorry for Edwin Jackson. 7.1 innings of 1-run ball, only to have his game blown in spectacular fashion.

    Leyland continues to prove what a failure he is as an in game manager. Lyon should not have been pitching in the 8th, let alone bringing him back for the 9th inning after he had already blown the game once. Leyland has no clue how to manage a pitching staff.

    And DUMBrowski’s failure to sign a shut down reliever has alrady hurt the Tigers. He wastes millions on the likes of Sheffield, Robertson and Willis, yet refuses to sign a decent reliever. He’s built a $130 million roster with as many holes as Swiss cheese. He should go, along with Leyland.

  138. Mark in Chicago

    April 7, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    well billfer, you mocked us by pointing out that the Tigers didn’t blow yesterday’s game with a bad bullpen. today the Tigers mock us all.

    i missed this one, but it sounds like I didn’t miss much. at least EJ pitched well.

  139. Brenden

    April 7, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    Why couldn’t have Perry made his debut there? It would have been better to see him than the junk Lyon was throwing. Why can David Price make big debuts in pressure situations but not our pitchers? We baby these guys way too much. We need the young guys in there because it is quite clear the old combo isn’t worth a darn. Send Lyon out and I am almost thinking Leyland at this moment, what an absolute joke. We need to win and win early. Don’t leave a crap thrower out there just so we can baby a rookie. Trial by fire is what I say. Otherwise, we will be headed down the same road as last year. Things have to change.

  140. Anson

    April 7, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    Well that made me want to vomit. I stop paying attention for 5 minutes and the Lyon manages to blow it. Oh well nice job Jaction.

  141. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Sorry, but Lyon’s job is to pitch in these exact kind of situations. That’s what Leyland is stuck with until somebody else wins the job or until we add a better arm. We simply ain’t going to win many games when Inge is making poor throws and Everett isn’t making those plays that he’s supposed to make. Our defense should of helped win this game, but it failed big time. That’s not Leylands fault at all.

  142. Brenden

    April 7, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    I will agree….too many errors early this season….Defense upgrade isn’t showing at all….

  143. David

    April 7, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    The defense was somewhat shotty most likely because it is on a concrete carpet…

    Still no excuse for Loser Lyon

    LeylandSucks, darn it I was thinking of changing my name to that for a time :)

    He really blew it today.

  144. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    David Price made his MLB debut last year in the 3rd inning of a game when his team was losing 6-3 to the Yankees.
    Btw, David Price didn’t make the Rays OD roster.

  145. David

    April 7, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    Tom, you echoed my feelings exactly, you forgot another – he faded at the end of 2007 and 2006(although I’ll forgive him for this year since we still got into the playoffs)

  146. joey c.

    April 7, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    I didn’t even watch the game…but I already have that sinking feeling. This place is gonna go bananas if we lose tomorrow. Another crap start.

  147. David

    April 7, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    -

  148. David

    April 7, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    Hopefully at least this puts Lyon on a short leash… and also lets look at the bright side… nearly every team in history has lost 60 games. We just got 2 out of the way really fast ;)

    Another point of note we aren’t exactly facing great starting pitchers for awhile.

    Lets go Miner and Porcello! split

  149. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    I agree that we could use a better manager. The big question is -What better manager is available? We could easily end up with somebody much worse than Leyland. We’ve seen worse here before. Buddy Bell, Larry Parrish, Phil Gardner, Luis Pujols, and Alan Trammell certainly weren’t any better.

  150. Kevin in Austin (now Dallas)

    April 7, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    Our bullpen is gonna lose a lot of games this year. Was anyone really surprised? I’m going to predict 15+ gut wrenching losses this year. I’ll define gut-wrenching as losing a 3 run lead in the 8th, or a 2 run lead in the 9th. Or any walk-off HR. That’s 1.

    I’d also like to re-institute the daily over/under for bullpen runs allowed. If billfer will be so kind as to post the link on the site somewhere, I’ll keep a running tab in google docs and make it public for all to see. billfer – please confirm and I’ll set it up.

    Funny that Leyland made the right move in sticking with Lyon once the bases were juiced (b/c we all know that Rodney would have walked in the winning run, I mean really, is there any doubt?), but he did it b/c he’s stubborn and thinks that this is 2007 still, and not b/c Rodney is not the right guy for that situation.

  151. Joey in Portland OR

    April 7, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    Ugh early heartbreak.

    How about DD never wears that shirt again! its obviously horrendous AND bad luck! Good god.

  152. Londontigerfan

    April 7, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    I don’t understand Leyland. Put players in roles where they have past success. Rodney blows as a closer but has had success as a 7 or 8th inning guy. Why not use Perry, Seay & Rodney in the 7th & 8th and go with Lyon as the closer until he proves he’s not worthy. Lyon is very similar to Jones, putting him in at any other time than the 9th and bad things will likely happen. Time for Leyland to go, this team is not going anywhere. Nice to see Inge hit but his error in the 8th cost the tigers the game! Everett looks a step behind, he needs to make plays! missing that ball that went under his chest in unexcusable for an all field no bat player. So frustrating to see them waste that outing by Jackson.

  153. Mr. X

    April 7, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    Simply put, there is no clear role for either Rodney or Lyon. They are interchangable parts.

    Managing 101- In away games you only use your closer (Rodney) in save situations. In Home games you can use the closer in the 9th in non-save situations because after the 9th inning, a save is not possible; it’s up to the bats to get a walk-off win.

  154. jud

    April 7, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    DID Gullien and Renteria play SS and 3rd tonight…it sure looked like it

  155. Chris

    April 8, 2009 at 12:47 am

    Brandon Lyon is garbage. My big hope is that he soon goes on the DL for the whole season and doesn’t get a chance to blow more games. Otherwise, he’ll blow 10 more before getting released and the Tigers will end up deep in last place.

  156. Ern

    April 8, 2009 at 1:06 am

    What a mess. Jimmy what are you thinking? I am not writing Lyon off yet, however I am still not understanding the decision to keep him out there in the 9th. Let’s not forget we had 7 LOB, 4 of which came from Laird and Everett with runners in scoring position. Another thing that bothers me is the fact that Santiago is not getting a shot here. I think he’s proven himself defensively and offensively. He’s simply a better all around player than Everett. I’ll be very upset if he’s not playing tomorrow. They’re going to need all the offence they can get with the gascan on the pill.

  157. ron

    April 8, 2009 at 2:35 am

    Inge is on track to hit 162 home runs and our pitching staff is on track to give up 1377 runs and some of us want want Leyland on the first train track out of town. What, it’s not even Easter yet. Go Tigers.

  158. Ken in Las Vegas

    April 8, 2009 at 3:21 am

    Let’s try to keep in mind that we are two games into the season, and should be 1-1. I still have hope that we are an improved team both defensively and in the bullpen. Wait….I am drunk and just won $300 on a video poker machine. I have no sense of reality. It smells like ham in here.

  159. David

    April 8, 2009 at 4:30 am

    Fact of the matter is we are 0-2. AND WE SHOULD BE 1-1, Leyland blew that game not once but TWICE. Sure we’ve got 160 left, but we are barely into the season and Leyland has already fudged up once.

    first start or not I DONT CARE… Watch certain other managers – they leave their starters and relievers in/esp. when they look good (Jackson had two ground balls before he was yanked and that one mistake pitch to Rolen) longer than Leyland does.

    We went from having one problem with Trammel – taking them out too late, and now we have had the opposite. He likes to play around with things. The funny thing is that is about his only decision besides who to start in the field and over the course of the season that is decided for him by Dombro(who he gets) and by the players (who is healthy). His main job is to decide when to rest guys and when to yank pitchers and he is good at mucking both up. At least this year we don’t have a bunch of guys shuffling positions (Guillen/Cabrera/Inge). That along with this pitching stuff is garbage.

    His best decision so far had been to take the players off the field when those balls were thrown at Anderson. It’s sad. And the fact that he was complaining last year that Dombro didn’t extend him…

    This ORGANIZATION need better accountability…and sadly they might get it.

  160. Coleman

    April 8, 2009 at 5:33 am

    @ron: Inge is on pace for a season of 162 HR…and 81 errors. Which, if it actually occurred, would unite the pro- and anti- Inge factions, as their heads all explode simultaneously…

  161. Scott

    April 8, 2009 at 8:00 am

    I didn’t have a problem brining Lyon in in the 8th inning. But there is no way he should have come out for the 9th. What, are we trying to “save” the bullpen two games into the season? Come on, Jim. Lyon was obviously struggling. Bringing anyone else in would have been an upgrade.

  162. Chris

    April 8, 2009 at 8:49 am

    Clearly the bullpen is THE problem with this team. Its pathetic to think that Brandon Lyon is our biggest upgrade. I predict that the team will have 35 blown saves this year.

  163. scotsw

    April 8, 2009 at 9:41 am

    Bah.

    Leyland didn’t sign Lyon, Dombrowski did. We’d all love to have Putz or Frankie Rodriguez, but it wasn’t in the budget. Closers are hard to come by, and our most talented candidate can’t get healthy and stay healthy.

    Lyon was the right guy to pitch the 9th. If Rodney is your supposed closer, and it’s not a save situation, you keep him ready for the 10th. Hopefully the heart of your order has added a run to win it, but if not…

    Now, I do think Seay should have been allowed to finish the 8th. He’s a good pitcher, not just a lefty specialist.

  164. ron

    April 8, 2009 at 9:43 am

    With his recent power surge, Inge will now see what Babe Ruth and Ted Williams had to put up with. He has only himself to blame.

  165. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 9:49 am

    Inge made a bad throw to 1st. Then he made another bad throw to 2nd on a ball that could of been a double play. Then Everett miss played a ball that was hit up the middle. The defense really blew it

    I think it’s smart to save Robertson for Thursday, just in case if Porcello gets yanked early. Bonine just threw 2.1 innings in the 1st game, so you need to try to rest him too. Rincon was not available. Seay was already used. Rodney is the closer so you wouldn’t use him either. It would of been Perry’s MLB debut, so using him in that situation is not a good fit. Even though it doesn’t sound right, it was a no brainer to have Lyon pitch the 9th. Leyland had no choice because the game could of went into extra innings.

  166. Chris in Dallas

    April 8, 2009 at 10:04 am

    It’s hard to kill Lyon on the HR. That was actually a pretty good pitch. Sometimes Major League hitters will do that. The 9th….well I don’t think I need to add anything to what you guys have already said.

    It’s never to early to say this – today’s game is a must win. If they start 0-3, I imagine the buttholes start tightening with memories of last year’s 0-7 debacle. Especially with Porcello going in Game 4.

  167. Chris Y.

    April 8, 2009 at 10:07 am

    FWIW, Cabrera didn’t exactly “catch” Inge’s throw in the 8th, instead he let it eat him up. The average first baseman scoops that throw.

  168. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 10:16 am

    Another thing, the Tigers play 10 games in a row without a day off. Jackson went 7 innings, so you have to take advantage of that. We lost, but we should be in decent shape for the next few games.

  169. tigerfan

    April 8, 2009 at 10:26 am

    well here we go again can’t hold a lead late in the game I know it is early but if this is any indication it is going to be a long season I am begining to think 2006 was just a fluke.

  170. Kevin

    April 8, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Yes, Dombrowski didn’t have many options with the budget, but he could’ve just as easily acquired Juan Cruz instead of Lyon.

    And as far as Leyland goes, he is as much to blame here as Everett or Inge. He took Bobby Seay out after only one batter. Bobby Seay is NOT a Lefty One Out Guy, and he actually pitches better against righties than lefties (look it up). Between that, and the two awful hit and runs (that were completely unnecessary), Leyland is proving that he really isn’t a very good in-game manager.

  171. ron

    April 8, 2009 at 10:38 am

    If we’re playing .400 ball after 30 games, Jimmy’s gone.

  172. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Let’s see, Seay was yanked when Scutaro was up. Scutaro has a career .500 average vs Seay. 1 for 2 with a homerun and a walk. That’s why Leyland yanked him. Most managers would do the same thing.

  173. Andre in Chi

    April 8, 2009 at 11:25 am

    After going to the bar to watch the season opener back-fired on me, I decided not to watch yesterday’s game.

    David,

    Having not seen how Jackson was doing, I have to think that if Leyland thought he was flagging (he said as much post-game), then he made the right call taking Jackson out. I’m not saying he brought the right people in after that, but its hard to characterize pulling a guy in the 8th as early (although I know a lot of “old-timers” would prefer everyone to pitch complete games).

    -

    Normally you might say to yourself that its better sooner than later to figure out who in the bullpen can be trusted with games, although I would say that its probably still too early to say for sure with Lyon. Its just unfortunate that the Tigers could really use the boost of a fast start this year. As bad as the start has been though and as skeptical as we all are of Lyon now, I have to think that yesterday was at least a moral victory – by which I mean that its looking like a pitching trade actually worked out for us. Jackson might end up exceeding many expectations (and its looking like I’m officially eating crow over my initial objections).

    In the end, that’s what I’ll take heart in (Jackson, not eating crow).

  174. Chris in Dallas

    April 8, 2009 at 11:25 am

    I don’t think 2006 was a fluke, tigerfan. Don’t sell the 2007 club short – they did win 88 games.

    One has to be encouraged by EJax, at least. A shame a start like that gets wasted. And I’m going to take this opportunity to say the following, as it is the only time the words will ever be uttered – Brandon Inge is leading the AL in home runs. Take that, haters!

  175. Steve

    April 8, 2009 at 11:30 am

    In a rare moment of sanity regarding Tuesdays game

    I was thinking that the closer stuff with Z etc could get better….Perry could step up etc. The real question is does Lyon have the stuff? / Do we have a solution on the team if not?

    Good news is Jackson looked good, Inge is solid at the plate and I think will get better at third with a little more time.

    Small sampling but …if and its a big one,,,,,,,,, We come out of last night with a win, we would have felt, well OK were 1-1. Time will tell with the wins and loses but it feels like to me that we are going to be alright this year. It just stinks we have had a few bummers right out of the gate.

  176. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 11:38 am

    The only thing I would of done differently was that I would of put Anderson in LF for Guillen before the 8th inning started. I wonder if Anderson could of jumped up any higher than Guillen to possibly steal that HR away from Hill. They were saying in the opener that Anderson had won slam dunk contests when he was in high school.

  177. Robert

    April 8, 2009 at 11:41 am

    When team is 6 games back at the end of the season, the loss to the Jays is gonna hurt. Can we playa hate Lyon alread? What about Verlander? At some point these boys are gonna have to claim responsibility for not doing their jobs. As for the defense, does anybody out there make 100% of the plays?
    Lincecum (potential top 5 pitcher every year) throws it to the backstop and lets runs in…….I will not get disgruntled over a few tigers errors.

  178. Steve

    April 8, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Robert, It will hurt a LOT more if we are one back, that said I hope we are in it that long.

    A few wins will make everything go away. We should take advantage of this as we are indoors in the north.

  179. Andre in Chi

    April 8, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    “When team is 6 games back at the end of the season, the loss to the Jays is gonna hurt.”

    The Tigers have played 2/162 games of the season. That’s 1%. If they lose the division or wildcard by 6 games, I think its safe to say that these two losses won’t hurt any more than the others that are sure to follow over the course of the season, 99% of which has yet to be played. Its also a safe bet to say that plenty of other players/coaches on the team will feel the “wrath” of the fans this year, only to be praised the next week or month (and vice-versa). Sure we can start to “playa hate” Lyon, Leyland, Verlander and whoever else we think dropped the ball in these opening games…but we do so at the risk of looking sheepish if they turn into heroes later in the year.

    -Apologies to Robert if he was being sarcastic with the “playa hate”

  180. Chris in Dallas

    April 8, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Andre: I’m comfortable with that. I ‘playa hate’ and then do a complete 180 into ‘bromance’, oftentimes in the same game. What this says about me, I don’t know.

  181. David

    April 8, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Andre, characterize me as a 20 year old OLD TIMER

    If it aint broke don’t fudge with it… AND Jackson wasn’t broke.

    Plus as I and many others have said. After you see that Lyon doesn’t have it – remove him.

    Seay gets his lefty lefty matchup out and Jim promptly takes him out….

    Lyon fudges up…in the 8th. We (INGE) comes back in the top of the 9th frame. He leaves Lyon in to let 2 (TWO) guys get on. He had multiple opp. to take him out. Guy gives up a leadoff walk for crying out loud, for being Mr. Todd Jones Jr. he looked the part + the walk. He didn’t have anything.

    You can blame it on a bad pen, but really it almost seemed like Leyland either

    A) REALLY WANTED TO LOSE

    B) IS REALLY THAT DUMB

    In either case of a or b, he should be walking a fine line off the team.

    Managers can’t really win games (unless they set up their D (ie shifts) in the right way)

    Managers sure as hell can lose games, and he has already 1 under his belt for 2009…I think I”m going to keep a tally. Maybe start a new blog.. Call it Leyland’s Losses (lets see how many he can rack up this year!)

  182. David

    April 8, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Oh and Coleman my head just wants to explode after last night. Keep replaying it through my mind. I never get headaches, but he is making me want to rip my hair off.

    Guy blows game in 8, that must be a confidence buster. And whether that was a a huge hit to his psychy, I don’t know.. It couldn’t have helped. Whether he had it or not, after that you take the guy out. Teams like the Yankees and the Angels don’t stand for that BULL

  183. David

    April 8, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Yipee a new member!

    Jim, you just joined my hate list along with Sheffield.

  184. Tyler

    April 8, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Perhaps this was all a ploy by Leyland to protest his disdain for what’s down there in the bullpen.

    While I agree that he’s got to go with somebody in that spot, I don’t understand why Lyon was left in for the entire 9th to lose it.

    And I only saw it once, and maybe didn’t get a good enough look at it, but was that ball up the middle truly Everett’s fault? To me it looked like it was slightly out of reach, but I don’t know.

  185. greg

    April 8, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    David,

    If they canned Leyland, I would not miss him at all, so this is not a defense, but it’s my opinion that Leyland’s top priority often isn’t winning the game, while he wants to do that, he thinks more long term. He’ll selectively keep a guy in there when the going gets rough to give him a chance to work through it. It’s the ‘get right back up on that horse that threw you off’ mentality. Probably why some of the players like him so much.

    Not saying it’s right, at all, but I think he’ll gladly risk a loss at the chance of ‘doing what’s right’(in his mind) for a player and the team long term.

  186. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Jackson’s command was gone. He fell behind on the count to every hitter he faced in the 8th. Rolen crushed a 3-1 fastball into the seats. Overbay hit a bullet at Inge on 3-2 count. Then Barajas popped up a 2-0 fastball. The lefty hitter Snider was up next and we know what he can do. Putting Seay in at that time was the wise thing to do.

  187. ron

    April 8, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    If we lose tonite, there could be close to 300 posts on this site. Misery loves company.

  188. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Tyler- Everett miscalculated. He saw that Lyon threw a 75 mph breaking pitch so he took a few steps to his right thinking that the hitter would pull the ball. That ground ball should of ended the inning.

    Lyon then threw a curve ball below the knees that Hill somehow hit and somehow cleared the fence with. He must of been looking curve ball because that pitch would of been in the dirt had he not hit it.

    Props should go to Toronto hitters for grinding it out in the 9th. Lyon got Vernon Wells to flyout, then Lind worked a 9 pitch at bat for a walk that set up the inning. That was a key battle that Lind won. It wasn’t like it was a 4 pitch walk or something. It could of easily of went Lyon’s way. Then Rolen singled to right field. It was pretty much over right there and then since the winning run was on 3rd and there was only 1 out. We would of needed a miracle then.

  189. Joel in Seattle

    April 8, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Mr. X:

    I wouldn’t consider a ground ball or a strikeout with a batter like Barajas to be “miracles.” How many times have the Tigers failed to convert that situation?

  190. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Ok, maybe not a miracle, but the odds were against us with just 1 out.

  191. tigerfan

    April 8, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    We all including me want to lay the blame on Leyland but how about Dombrowski taking some of the heat. Someone remind me who we gave up to the Marlins ( Andrew Miller/Cameron Maybin ) for Dontrelle Willis what a joke and Miguel Cabrera got a good bat but fielding still questionable. And Atlanta we send ( Jurrgiens/Infantae ) and we get Edgar Rentarina and some guy whose 1st name I can’t remember last name McCann a pitcher I know you have to give to get but it seems like we give and get less back.

  192. Steve

    April 8, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Cody Ross is still available in Florida.

  193. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    DD got us Bonderman, Guillen, Polanco, Cabrera, Galaragga, Jackson, Laird, and Anderson. Drafted Porcello, Verlander, Perry( and maybe Granderson?)

  194. David

    April 8, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    The biggest mistakes Dombrowski has made has been some of his hires and his long term deals off of career years.

    DD’s strategy has been to 1) sign/trade for injured/injury prone FA and get 2) “overpriced” draft picks and 3) use his draft as trading pieces

    1) Pudge, Sheffield, Ordonez, Guillen

    2) Perry, Porcello, Miller, Maybin, Verlander

    3) Cabrera, Jackson, Rentaria

    Oh and Leyland wasn’t all bad yesterday – he used Everett to bunt Inge to third after that double…I liked that…That was about it.

    Mr. X he did have it. The hr that Rolen hit was a mislocated fastball right down the pike. The guy(Jackson) was dominating. You tell me the Blue Jays would have taken Roy out if he was pitching like that? Or Ozzie would have taken Buehrle or Floyd or Danks out? Or Gardenhire would have taken Santana or any other pitcher out?

    Fine take him out. Fine. Lets go with that. STILL WHY LEAVE LYON IN AFTER HE BLOWS IT, Fine lets go with that, show you’ve got super confidence in him after he blows the game and Inge comes back and let him start the ninth.

    WHY LEAVE HIM IN AFTER HE GIVES UP A WALK AND THEN A HIT?

    Guy couldn’t do crap and he just let him loose.

    OK walk the guy to load the bases and set up a force. Lets go with that…

    If this guy is anything like Todd Jones (and it looked like much worse yesterday) then he is a here it is hit it type guy. IN THAT SITUATION WITH BASES LOADED 1 OUT BOTTOM 9, YOU WANT A STRIKE OUT ESPECIALLY WHILE PLAYING ON TURF!! So the D can play in its regular spot and you don’t have to worry about getting a double play, or them hitting it deep (which they did. Lyon IS NOT a strike out pitcher…

    To be honest I think Leyland is an IDIOT.

    @Greg

    Yea maybe he thinks “long-term” by resting guys… But what’s the point?

    If they don’t start winning now there will be no “long-term”. He’ll be canned after this year and they won’t go at all let alone LONG into the post season.

    In baseball DURING A GAME, if you want to be any damn good IMO you have to think SHORT TERM and try hard as hell to win every game. After the game is over that is when you try and look at the big picture and shake off a loss or w/e.

  195. Chris in Dallas

    April 8, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Seeing Jurrjens pitch well yesterday made me throw up in my mouth a little.

  196. Andre in Chi

    April 8, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Ah yes, the Tigers are 0-2 so lets leave no blame-rocks unturned. Who hasn’t been covered yet? Bat-boys? Stadium vendors? Parking lot assistants? Apparently, when you’re 0-2, everyone is to blame and everyone is a scrub. Just keep in mind that this team of under-achieving, over-paid, waivers-in-waiting that was assembled and managed by the dumbest front-office in baseball could easily be leading the division in July.

    tigerfan,

    Careful how you use “we” in combination with asinine comments.

  197. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    WHY LEAVE HIM IN AFTER HE GIVES UP A WALK AND THEN A HIT?
    1) Nobody was warming up.
    2) Who do you want to throw with the bases loaded and only 1 out? Not Rodney. Not Perry for his MLB debut. Not Robertson because we’ll need him Thursday. Not Bonine because he just threw 2.1 innings the day before. Not Rincon because he’s not available. Who then? Fact is there was no other good options.

    Lyon is the best relief pitcher we have in that situation.

  198. greg

    April 8, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    @ David

    I pretty much agree, just offering a little Leyland perspective…..not that it’s healthy to do that.

  199. Londontigerfan

    April 8, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Whats the big deal with using Perry. I don’t buy the line, its he’s MLB debut. The kid made the team because he has talent. Lets see what he can do. He’s projected as a set-up guy or Closer. What are we waiting for a 10 run lead to make sure he can throw. Just an excuss, he should have been used last night instead of Lyon or after Lyon blew the lead. We need a K or ground ball, Perry should have been the guy.

  200. Mr. X

    April 8, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    London- So you would have already given up on Lyon? Good luck trying to find a pitcher that doesn’t get roughed up.