Comments on: What to make of Dontrelle’s day http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:06:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Chris Y. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111229 Chris Y. Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:27:08 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111229 Walter Johnson is a great example for debunking workload. The only reason I chose Spahn as an example, and there are many to choose from, is that his career was entirely within the live-ball era. A little over half of Johnson's career came prior to the transition to clean balls. If I could see one pitcher from a bygone era, it would probably be Walter Johnson. Although, on second thought, Satchel Paige might be my choice. I especially like some of Cobb's comments on Johnson: "Just speed, raw speed, blinding speed, too much speed (Walter Johnson's fastball)." "His (Walter Johnson) fastball looked about the size of a watermelon seed and it hissed at you as it passed." Walter Johnson is a great example for debunking workload. The only reason I chose Spahn as an example, and there are many to choose from, is that his career was entirely within the live-ball era. A little over half of Johnson’s career came prior to the transition to clean balls.

If I could see one pitcher from a bygone era, it would probably be Walter Johnson. Although, on second thought, Satchel Paige might be my choice.

I especially like some of Cobb’s comments on Johnson:

“Just speed, raw speed, blinding speed, too much speed (Walter Johnson’s fastball).”

“His (Walter Johnson) fastball looked about the size of a watermelon seed and it hissed at you as it passed.”

]]> By: Kathy http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111228 Kathy Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:05:49 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111228 I know greg is right. I'm just disagreeing with those who are making excuses for this new "country club" set of pitchers. I used to watch those guys that threw for 9 innings. I know greg is right. I’m just disagreeing with those who are making excuses for this new “country club” set of pitchers. I used to watch those guys that threw for 9 innings.

]]> By: Bob Biscigliano http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111218 Bob Biscigliano Sat, 07 Mar 2009 09:40:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111218 baseball fans, I will be having a liveblogcast on detroit4lyfe.com tomorrow of the USA/Canada WBC game. Please join me at my site for live up to the date commentary, good times, and general discussion. I hope to see a lot of you out there for what's going to be a good game hopefully for USA! baseball fans,

I will be having a liveblogcast on detroit4lyfe.com tomorrow of the USA/Canada WBC game. Please join me at my site for live up to the date commentary, good times, and general discussion. I hope to see a lot of you out there for what’s going to be a good game hopefully for USA!

]]> By: greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111212 greg Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:39:22 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111212 Yes Kathy, Dave is right! :-) Yes Kathy, Dave is right!

:-)

]]> By: David http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111211 David Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:20:55 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111211 Warren Spahn pffffffffffffffffffft.... Go check out Walter http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnswa01.shtml pitched over 300 innings what? 9 years in a row? nearly 6000 career IP he was not on teh juice, neither was my boy Cobb ;) Warren Spahn pffffffffffffffffffft….

Go check out Walter

http://www.baseball-reference......wa01.shtml

pitched over 300 innings what? 9 years in a row? nearly 6000 career IP

he was not on teh juice, neither was my boy Cobb ;)

]]> By: Dave BW http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111210 Dave BW Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:49:02 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111210 Kathy, greg is a well-known baseball insider and you should never contradict him. :) Kathy, greg is a well-known baseball insider and you should never contradict him. :)

]]> By: Kathy http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111209 Kathy Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:44:47 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111209 Oh, pooey. The game's just changed, that's all. Guys have been taking PED's since...........? Tome Seaver said the other day all a guy has to do is go out there now with the mentality to go at least 6 innings. I wonder what would happen if SP had to pitch at least 8 innings and then you could have a closer come in. I wish we had more pitchers who could close out a game or at least get close to it. Oh, pooey. The game’s just changed, that’s all. Guys have been taking PED’s since………..? Tome Seaver said the other day all a guy has to do is go out there now with the mentality to go at least 6 innings. I wonder what would happen if SP had to pitch at least 8 innings and then you could have a closer come in. I wish we had more pitchers who could close out a game or at least get close to it.

]]> By: greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111208 greg Fri, 06 Mar 2009 13:29:59 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111208 Thing is, it wasn't just Warren Spahn who had a high workload, were talking hundreds of pitchers and it wasn't just one era. Spanning decades all/most pitchers had workloads many times what today's pitchers have and they didn't have a care in the world. I'm not buying the argument that they didn't play/pitch as hard back then. I can't see it. If anything players were more competitive back then as they all did it for the love of the game, whereas today I see more and more of the 'Sweet! I've got 'FU' money, and I'll play when I feel like it' mentality . The game was saturated with 'dirtballs' (Dustin Pedroia types)whereas today, a more 'country club' mentality permeates, at least to some extent, at times. Thing is, it wasn’t just Warren Spahn who had a high workload, were talking hundreds of pitchers and it wasn’t just one era. Spanning decades all/most pitchers had workloads many times what today’s pitchers have and they didn’t have a care in the world. I’m not buying the argument that they didn’t play/pitch as hard back then. I can’t see it. If anything players were more competitive back then as they all did it for the love of the game, whereas today I see more and more of the ‘Sweet! I’ve got ‘FU’ money, and I’ll play when I feel like it’ mentality . The game was saturated with ‘dirtballs’ (Dustin Pedroia types)whereas today, a more ‘country club’ mentality permeates, at least to some extent, at times.

]]> By: Chris Y. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111206 Chris Y. Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:15:09 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111206 Not trying to be argumentative, but: 1. From what I understand, Warren Spahn threw a splitter. But, then I never saw him pitch in person. Morris also had an incredible splitter and enjoyed a long career. Of course, he didn't debut until just before age 22, so... Point is, examples are just that. Examples. 2. By definition, the live ball era (post-1920) followed the beginning of umpire removal of scuffed balls from play and replacement with clean baseballs. This made them a heck of a lot easier to hit. Not trying to be argumentative, but:

1. From what I understand, Warren Spahn threw a splitter. But, then I never saw him pitch in person. Morris also had an incredible splitter and enjoyed a long career. Of course, he didn’t debut until just before age 22, so…

Point is, examples are just that. Examples.

2. By definition, the live ball era (post-1920) followed the beginning of umpire removal of scuffed balls from play and replacement with clean baseballs. This made them a heck of a lot easier to hit.

]]> By: Coleman http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111205 Coleman Fri, 06 Mar 2009 07:24:53 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111205 Since one of the stress variables for a pitcher is the type of pitch he is pitching--(both grip and arm action)--I say you'd have to send Spahn out to develop, say, a splitter to add to his repetoire, and then report back how his arm is doing. Not to mention that baseballs back then were softer and therefore easier to grip. And the umpires didn't keep taking away your nice comfy scuffed ones and replacing them with new hard smooth ones like they do now. (Not to mention they didn't go as far when hit) Since one of the stress variables for a pitcher is the type of pitch he is pitching–(both grip and arm action)–I say you’d have to send Spahn out to develop, say, a splitter to add to his repetoire, and then report back how his arm is doing.

Not to mention that baseballs back then were softer and therefore easier to grip. And the umpires didn’t keep taking away your nice comfy scuffed ones and replacing them with new hard smooth ones like they do now. (Not to mention they didn’t go as far when hit)

]]> By: Mark in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111199 Mark in Chicago Fri, 06 Mar 2009 02:45:53 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111199 Not yet mentioned in this discussion about rushing Porcello is the effect it could have on him mentally. He's probably been dominant at virutally every level he's pitched so far, even last year with limited use of his pitches. But what if he gets into the bigs and the Red Sox and Yankees light him up? He may try to hard to adjust, give up what works, develop bad habits and completely psyche himself out of being an effective big league pitcher. I know he's got great presence and all for his age, but he's 20 years old. Have we ever really seen him face adversity? Not yet mentioned in this discussion about rushing Porcello is the effect it could have on him mentally. He’s probably been dominant at virutally every level he’s pitched so far, even last year with limited use of his pitches. But what if he gets into the bigs and the Red Sox and Yankees light him up? He may try to hard to adjust, give up what works, develop bad habits and completely psyche himself out of being an effective big league pitcher. I know he’s got great presence and all for his age, but he’s 20 years old. Have we ever really seen him face adversity?

]]> By: Mr. Jimmy http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111198 Mr. Jimmy Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:56:21 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111198 Just one thing about the Warren Spahn vs. pitchers of today discussion. Back in the day, pitchers didn't have to bear down on every batter. Lots more banjo hitters back then. Nowadays, between weight lifting, better conditioning and PED's, pitchers have to bear down on almost every hitter. Just one thing about the Warren Spahn vs. pitchers of today discussion. Back in the day, pitchers didn’t have to bear down on every batter. Lots more banjo hitters back then. Nowadays, between weight lifting, better conditioning and PED’s, pitchers have to bear down on almost every hitter.

]]> By: Kurt http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111197 Kurt Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:53:19 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111197 Just for some perspective, Armando Galarraga averaged 93 pitches per game last year. He threw more than 100 in 15 of 27 starts. Of course his innings were higher than I'd prefer to see Porcello pitch. Just for some perspective, Armando Galarraga averaged 93 pitches per game last year. He threw more than 100 in 15 of 27 starts. Of course his innings were higher than I’d prefer to see Porcello pitch.

]]> By: Mr. X http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111196 Mr. X Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:53:17 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111196 I think the Tigers might be the exception to the rule about starters needing to throw 100+ pitches each game because we'll have a couple extra starters in the pen that can pitch 4 to 6 innings in a game. We have to play up to our strengths, not our weaknesses. Our weakness is that we don't have many dependable situational guys that can pitch under pressure. Micro managing won't work well with this staff. We got 7 starting pitchers that could very well pitch 170+ innings each if they don't crap out. If we use these guys correctly, are pen and starters should always be fresh. I think the Tigers might be the exception to the rule about starters needing to throw 100+ pitches each game because we’ll have a couple extra starters in the pen that can pitch 4 to 6 innings in a game. We have to play up to our strengths, not our weaknesses. Our weakness is that we don’t have many dependable situational guys that can pitch under pressure. Micro managing won’t work well with this staff. We got 7 starting pitchers that could very well pitch 170+ innings each if they don’t crap out. If we use these guys correctly, are pen and starters should always be fresh.

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111195 Chris in Dallas Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:44:15 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/03/what-to-make-of-dontrelles-day/#comment-111195 2 dingers for Jeff Larish today. Boom goes the dynamite. 2K's for Fien in 1 inning. Rincon fans 3 in 2 innings. Miner somehow gives up 3 baserunners in 3 innings, but two of them score. Looks like a pretty good day all around though (not that it means much). 2 dingers for Jeff Larish today. Boom goes the dynamite. 2K’s for Fien in 1 inning. Rincon fans 3 in 2 innings. Miner somehow gives up 3 baserunners in 3 innings, but two of them score. Looks like a pretty good day all around though (not that it means much).

]]>