The Tigers and Justin Verlander have agreed to terms on a one year deal. I’ll update with terms when I find them. And the streak of not going to arbitration continues for Dombrowski.
UPDATE: It’s 3.675 million. A couple hundred thousand less than I thought.
Also know that this doesn’t prevent a longer term deal at all. Miguel Cabrera and Fernando Rodney signed one year deals the last couple years, only to sign longer deals within a few weeks.
I’ve never gotten the impression that Verlander was interested in staying a Tiger once he reaches free agency. I’m thinking he’ll fly the coop before signing a long term deal.
of all the people in the Tigers organization Verlander is one I would like to see get a multi-year deal, hopefully the trend continues and they work somthing out before spring training
Sometimes I get that same vibe off him too, Chris in Dallas. He probably sees himself in Boston or New York…..I hope not!
A couple things come to mind:
Maybe due to the off year he had last year the Tigers did not step right up and sign him for a long term deal and he is playing out his hand a little. We can understand the Tigers position the got burned a little on some of the deals. Verlander probably wants a good deal of money and the years to go with it.
If he has a bad year again it goes one way / if he has a great year he may go another. It will be interesting to see what happens. I hope he stays with us and becomes a great core player to build around.
Steve
I like the one-year deal.
Last year could have been a fluke. Or maybe J.V. will continue to get worse. Guess we will find out this year.
If J.V. really clicks with our new pitching coach, maybe he’ll be more inclined to stay here in Detroit. Especially now that’s he experienced how much of a difference a bad pitching coach (yup, we’re talking about you Chuck) can make.
A pitching coach doesn’t make or break the pitcher. Verlander, like the most of his teammates, didn’t prepare himself to succeed. They all thought winning would come easy since we had such a great roster on paper. Verlander was no different than Renteria, Sheff, Guillen, Willis, Pudge, Jones, Jones, Robertson, Rogers, Rodney, Zumaya, and Inge. None of these guys came into camp trying to improve their game, they just thought they could win a world series ring without having to earn it. That’s what happens when you walk with that swagger and your head swells up. Great players will always be trying to hone their game and will set individual goals, like making the All-Star team, winning 18 games, or getting 200 hits. I think most players on the Tigers forgot that baseball is an individual sport, just as much as it is a team sport. You can’t really worry about what your team does, you have to look out for #1, yourself. When you have a team of players that each are giving 100%, that’s when winning comes easy. Last year the players were unselfish, happy, lazy, and disgusting. Hopefully this year, these guys play with some fire in their eyes.
@Mr X
Those are some pretty broad dispersions to cast and I’m not really sure where that comes from. Sheffield rehabbed like crazy to try and get ready for the start of the season. Rodney and Zumaya weren’t able to even throw until June. If baseball were just about effort I could be in the big leagues. I’m not saying your statement doesn’t apply to anyone, but you lumped a whole lot of people in there.
Basically I was just saying that you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I’m sure you know where that comes from.
The team would of been better off without Sheff, Rodney, and Zumaya the entire season. Those guys shouldn’t have been playing hurt.
X:
Do you have any evidence at all for those accusations? Particularly:
“They all thought winning would come easy since we had such a great roster on paper. ”
“None of these guys came into camp trying to improve their game, they just thought they could win a world series ring without having to earn it.”
Do you have any quotes, inside stories from ST…anything? Or are you, as a fan, just projecting?
Despite all the attention and mega-cash, baseball players are people too. All are individuals who happen to play the same game. Think about what motivates your fellow co-workers in their pursuit of a career. Is it love of the business or the paycheck?
I personally don’t question any player’s motivation. I may not understand it in each case (i.e Sheffield), but I don’t question what makes them tick. Is playing for money any less righteous than playing for the love of the sport? I certainly prefer one over the other, but consider what might drive motivation the other way. Consider the world in which you live, the sport you follow so righteously, and the inequities of this world.
Besides, it just takes too much individual determination to make it to, and persist, in MLB.
Dave BW- who cares? I have the right to have an opinion, don’t I?
Some people like to have reasons for the formations of their opinions beyond anecdotal noise. I was just curious as to what yours might be. If you prefer to remain enigmatic, though, it’s certainly your right.
Chris —
You mean you wouldn’t go to work work just for love of the job??
Yeah, me neither.
Dave BW- My statements at 02.05.09 at 6:06 pm were nothing more than me sharing my anger about the Tigers 2008 season. I was wrong, but I’m not going to blame the pitching coach for last seasons failures when it was clearly something much bigger than that. It seems that nearly every player on the team had a different excuse for not performing.
@ Mr X
(i’m certainly late in coming to the table on this, so apologies)
“Verlander was no different than Renteria, Sheff, Guillen, Willis, Pudge, Jones, Jones, Robertson, Rogers, Rodney, Zumaya, and Inge.”
i’m not going to impinge on your right to an opinion, and to a certain extent there *may* have been a feeling of entitlement on the players parts coming into the season. on the other hand, i’m pretty sure that an 0-7 start would have realigned at least some of their views. you also have to be fair and point out that many of the players you mentioned were either injured, asked to make significant adjustments or switch positions.
Verlander – asked to make adjustments to prolong outings
Sheff – injured / rehabbing much of the year
Guillen – asked to move to 1st, then 3rd, then injured
Willis – injured
T. Jones – why was he on the list?
Zumaya – injured
Inge – shuffled all over the diamond
there are plenty of more applicable (and more evident) criticisms to be made about the way ’08 unraveled. the front office counted on too many question marks, whether in the form of age or injury risk, and they probably allowed too many players to rehab in-game…but especially after the start of the season, i don’t think complacency was the issue.
and aside from Verlander moping a bit and Guillen’s “high expectations” complaint, both cases in which Leyland was quick to call the players on, i’m not sure where you got the impression that they were all making excuses for themselves. you could be right, i just wasn’t seeing it.
i do absolutely agree with you regarding the pitching coach. rick knapp might well be an upgrade (time will tell), but the season was hardly lost on account of his predecessor.
You all are right. I was wrong to lump all those players together. I was just trying to kick some dirt on the Tigers for their lackluster and heart breaking season. I still can’t believe how poorly they played and how so many players had a complete drop off in performance. It seemed like 9 out 10 players done worse, and some were not only worse, but they were so terrible that they didn’t deserve to be in the majors.
Here’s a rundown-
Granderson, improved in some areas, such as his strikeout to walk ratio, he might be the only Tiger that is actually progressing.
Polanco, got worse, but he was coming off a career year and his numbers were right in line with his career norms.
Ordonez, about the same as Polanco, got worse, but was right in line with his career norms.
Cabrera, got worse, he might of won the HR title, but his batting average dropped by about .30 points from his previous 3 seasons.
Guillen, got worse, he played injured most of the season.
Sheffield, got much worse, much worse.
Renteria, got much worse, he even gave ham sandwiches a bad name.
Jones, got worse, so bad he got dropped off the team.
Thames, improved, but couldn’t win a full-time job for some reason. Go figure.
Pudge, got worse, his power vanished and defense sharply declined.
Inge, got worse, he was a lousy catcher, he had no bat whatsoever, but he was still brilliant with his defense elsewhere.
Verlander, got worse, for whatever reason, he just wasn’t there.
Bonderman, got worse, then got dl’d for rest of season.
Rogers, got worse, so bad that he should retire.
Willis, got much worse, he declined so much that the only way he could get any lower was if he dug a hole for himself and got in it.
Robertson, got much worse, no more gum time.
Jones, got much worse, he held his own for awhile, then he pitched himself into retirement.
Rodney, got much worse, he was injured, and pitched like it.
Zumaya, got much worse, he had a good excuse though, the poor guy was hurt again.
Seay, got worse, he had an up and down year, that ended on the downside.
Grilli, improved, he had the lowest ERA on the team, but he got ran out of town by the fans. Go figure.
Minor, improved, he was good after a slow start. Gets little respect. He should be in the starting rotation or get the 1st shot at being the closer.
Galarraga, improved, he became the best pitcher on the roster, but most fans haven’t warmed up to him and think his season was a fluke. Go figure.
ARod was on Roids. Man, that stinks. Everything about baseball is tainted now.
Damn right many of the Tigers lost the fire within. Mr. X, this site is fueled by abstract factoid freaks. Basically, anything you add to the discussion needs to be footnoted. It’s always been this way here. Hell, I got temporarily banned for going off on Bonderman two years ago for giving up runs in the first inning for what seemed to be 30 starts in a row.
At the very least their lust for data driven proof for every baseball assertion creates a very boring and numbing conversation.
At the very worst they’ve created their own artificial paradigm the lends itself to the erroneous belief that they are some how closer to the game then you or me.
Note that I’m not talking about classic stat driven conversation (avg, era etc.). I’m talking about the need to back up every sports comment with proof for a jury.
You talk sports like people used to do at pubs and bars. Not going to fly around here.
If I recall correctly you basically called Bonderman and his wife retarded. That’s why you got banned.
That’s not the kind of site I run. If that means it is boring for you, oh well.
@ posthumous hare
in my experience, there have been many instances here on this site where non-stat issues have been brought up and analyzed. aside from ham-sandwiches and cod-pieces, topics such as Rodney’s meltdowns, Bonderman’s 1st innings, Robertson’s post-fourth innings, and Verlander’s reactions to bad defensive and offensive support are just a few of them.
the difference between these topics and saying something like “the players lost the fire” is that the latter leads to a short conversation, culminating in either agreeing or disagreeing, but usually for vague reasons that you can’t really go any deeper into. but if i say, “man the team just doesn’t seem to play hard for Verlander”, you can look at games when he’s pitched and see whether or not that’s true, and we can have a discussion.
since this isn’t a bar, you might try being thoughtful about your moaning and groaning. speaking for myself, and thanks in large part to this site, if i think i’m closer to an understanding of the game than those that think that eckstien is a great player and avg, era, and w-l (for pitchers) are the how the sport is best measured…its because i am. not that i have any “proof” of this, but you don’t seem like the kind of guy that will mind that.
consider moving to Chicago, they’ve got a great announcer here for you, full of all kinds of old-time-y-ness you’re sure to enjoy. and since you dislike footnotes, i’ll forgo them just this once, even though by doing so i’m in clear violation of DTW policies.
The way Bondo act’s sometimes… =p Hopefully he can stay healthy for a whole season and pitch to his potential, we’ve all been waiting.
I haven’t been on here much lately, but for the last few years I’ve been on quite a bit, and I haven’t heard of Billfer banning too many people… You are right that he has tried to somewhat censor some things, keep topics on discussion and he enjoys playing around with numbers(many hardcore fans are drawn to this as well). You can only say I like Granderson or Inge so many times before it starts to get boring and overplayed.
I think a lot of people try to play around with various statistics to try and PROVE WHAT THEY SEE. Stats, as I’m sure you know, are concrete backing of what someone might see visibly.
Some people like concrete proof and you shouldn’t “player hate” them to their face. This is supposed to be a mainly hardcore Detroit Tiger/mlb fan/general baseball site – where you get news, reaction, discussion and analysis that usually(on Tigers stuff) is ahead of the curve and more comprehensive than most anything else you could easily find.
Some of it may bother me or someone else slightly but the fact remains… IT IS HIS SITE, he makes the rules! If I or you have a site, we would want people to abide by our rules. You obviously pissed him off a few years ago, he doesn’t ban people for nothing. From personal experience he warns you if you are violating his policies, and most of the time he is pretty lenient. If you truly don’t like him, the site, or most of its participants then why would you return?
To be honest the more opinions the better but, in the end, this site is a reflection of him and he alone decides if anyone should be banned.
Dead Rabbit btw if you don’t mind me asking ~ how old are you?
Thanks for this David. My feelings are laid out in the comments policy. I will censor swearing, and I advocate staying in the vicinity of a topic (which we’ve veered from here).
You also bring up a good point about warnings. If you give me a valid email address you’ll usually get a warning before a ban. There are only 3 people I’ve ever banned, and only a couple more I’ve suspended. Dead Rabbit in the later category and I sent him emails to explain this.
@ Andre –
Nice touch with the Hawk Harrelson reference, that’s classic.
Ugh. I guess there are some out there who don’t care for those “fact” things. Too messy. I will come back to the Brandon Inge Theory. Common perception is that dude strikes out every single time he’s up with men on base, sometimes even finding ways to strike out twice in the same at-bat. As we’ve seen, when you look at the numbers, he’s actually one of the more productive guys on the team in those situations. Knee jerk reactions are often wrong. I know that most everyone who posts here knows that, but I just felt like putting in my 2 cents.
Chris,
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
John Adams, 1770
I actually wouldn’t ever rip on his wife. I said he rides the short bus and his learning ability screws his game up when it comes to focusing. Bondo is a moron. I root for him like crazy, but the dude is is plain dull.
Actually you did. And labels like short bus aren’t the kind of crap that I want around here. Sorry if that’s boring to you, but like David said it is a reflection on me.
Adams…..the president responsible for the Alien and Seditions Acts, stifling debate and censoring the press. Fitting. Vote Jefferson!
billfer,
i apologize in advance for delving ever so slightly into U.S. history and politics…but I just have to (poli-sci major)!
@ dead rabbit
yeah, i can see the similarity between banning you for being un-original and quasi-war time measures taken by a newly minted nation struggling to preserve its place in the world.
regardless, since you brought it up, i’ll give you a little primer on U.S. politics. Congress is responsible for legislation (both creating and passing), the Presidential role is one of signing and then executing the laws brought to him by Congress. also, keep in mind that the executive was significantly weaker then, when compared to the congress, than it is now. Adams neither proposed or campaigned for either of the acts you mention.
all in all, despite the inaccurate historical analogy, i’d say you were well on your way to adopting this site’s habit of supporting your views with “proof for a jury”. if nothing else, you’ve named two presidents…which might well be two more than Bonderman can. jk.
lol
Adams was responsible for executing and enforcing a law in which you can’t rip on….drum role…Adams.
You better tread carefully, my democratic-republican buddies and I are always dueling federalists. Mr. X has already agreed to be my “second.”
“and I advocate staying in the vicinity of a topic (which we’ve veered from here).”
looks like dead rabbit aint the only one in the hot seat this time….consider yourselves warned.
however, fair is fair…and I will rephrase my comments on Bondo and then move on:
Bondo suffers from a learning disability and is the product of a special education program until he dropped out of high school. He displays classic traits of someone afflicted with attention deficit disorder and I argue this often manifests itself on mound, particularly early in the game. I also maintain that his lack of communication skills may reflect a low IQ. If my premise is correct, then a rational conclusion may very well be that we should not expect him to ever take the game to the next level, no matter the status of his arm or his mechanics. I hope my opinion fits within the parameter of acceptable discourse and admit I should have been more sensitive the last time.
Regards,
Dead Rabbit.
I must say I love this site, and bilfer does a great job. I”m no stat geek but I much prefer intelligent comments over completely inane comments like you find on sites like espn or others. (“That guy sucks!”, “That player is a moron!” or “I hate the White Sox!” – ok those are always welcome) Speaking of Harrelson does anyone else have to mute the tv every time they play a clip with his voice on it on mlb network? ugh.
I don’t think every opinion needs to backed up by stats, I’ve never quoted someones bhip% or pecota to make a point.
Keep it up bilfer and all the Tiger faithful.
Blog threads are serious business
IMO, Bondo has made progress in all areas of his game. He’s a regular guy who loves his family and enjoys the outdoors. Hopefully, the new pitching coach will help him gain confidence in a third pitch and just trusting his stuff. I’m really looking forward to spring training.
“Bondo suffers from a learning disability and is the product of a special education program until he dropped out of high school.” (didn’t you mean “was”; who exactly has the learning disability?)
Regardless of how it is phrased, this is a reasonably serious accusation. How about a reference for this little tidbit of “info”? Did you attend school with Mr. Bonderman?
And just out of curiosity, Mr. Rabbit, are you a board-certified clinical psychologist?
Or, is it Dr. Rabbit?
Bonderman was diagnosed with dyslexia in 1995. So yes, he has a learning disability. Why this is fodder for conversation is unknown to me. All I know is he’s a workhorse when he’s healthy and seems like a pretty decent individual off the field as well. Let’s leave it at that.
http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Bonderman/Bonderman_bio.html
Well, that explains everything.
Really, it seems like a non-issue to me. In fact, it might keep him from focusing too much on the negative things people might write about him in the papers (and perhaps on blogs).
I see it as a real positive.
Seriously though, isn’t this thread about Verlander’s contract?
LOL no problem Billfer, its getting serious up in here
I wouldn’t bash Bondo that much I mean he
1) Came up super early and was expected to be a horse- which stunted his development
2) I think a lot of what he suffered from during that first inning debacle is psychological – self fulfilling prophecy type deal, one game in particular that stood out to me was when he blew up in the 8th inning at the Metrodome a few years ago – again these guys are human and a lot of this game is about momentum/your confidence in yourself and others
3) The biggest thing that gets me about him/Sheffield/other players is playing through serious pain =DUMBDUMBDUMB and that is what really pisses me off
if you checked him out he usually has stunk while injured for a half season/or so and done great when healthy the last few years
He HAS TO finally put two great halves into a great whole 2009
Plus you don’t need a lot of brains to be a good pitcher – the catcher is the one who is most of the time supposed to dictate what will be thrown and where… you just need good stuff that either is fast or moves/spins a lot (pref. both) and to be able to hit the mit (hit your spots)
We want Bondo to pitch, which we all know he can do when healthy. We don’t need him to teach English Lit. …just pitch
one game in particular that stood out to me was when he blew up in the 8th inning at the Metrodome a few years ago
That was both the best and worst game I’ve ever seen him pitch. If I remember correctly, he gave up a leadoff double, and then not another baserunner until that fateful 8th inning, where he was undone by a balk and a bunch of bloopers and such. Thanks for reminding me…grrr
haha np Chis