JOYCE TO THE RAYS (Marcus Thames Was His Partner)

Marcus Thames was his partner
Made a right good platoon
Figured Joyce was gonna get right field in ‘10
But I guess I a-spoke too soon
‘Cause they craved another righty like Zoom
Singin’…

Joyce to the Rays
Gary Sheffield stays, now
Hope Carlos Guillen’s healthy all the way
Joyce to Tampa Bay

If I was to shore up the staff
I tell you what I’d do
I’d try to find the likes of a guy who throws strikes
Keep some lefty power, too
Sing it now…

Joyce to the Rays
Jackson’s on his way, now
Rick Knapp is gonna be a busy guy
Joyce, what did you buy?

You know Matt can’t hit lefties
Can Edwin learn to pitch?
If they’re gonna take him then they’d better make him
A strike-throwin’ son of a b%&%&
I said a strike-throwin’ son of a b%&%&

Joyce to the Rays
Plays in a beret, now
Joyce – wish him luck except against Detroit
Losing him might hoyt

Joyce to the Rays
Will we rue the day?
Joyce, now a Ray

Joyce to the Rays
Clevlen in his place, now
Why not take Larish or our D-no-H?
Damn you, Tampa Baych

Joyce to the Rays
Billfer’s on their case, now
What’s to become of kittens in the pen?
Well, there’s always Thames

Joyce to the Rays
Clears a bit of space, now
Let’s hope Clete Thomas will be back by June (or)
Wilkin’s ready soon

Note to the Rays:
Jax had best amaze, now (or he’ll)
Sleep with the fishes down Lake Erie way (and)
You’ll return M.J.

I’ve got a searching analysis of the Joyce-Jackson trade coming, by the way, steeped in deepest sabermetrics.

clearly we were speaking in terms of hypothetical girl friends, we’d never dream of igniting the flame of jealousy in your lonely heart…

You are lucky you have girlfriends. Listen to your boring blubber.

awesome link, my fave part has to be “Runs Over Willie”. i’m gonna spend the weekend trying to work that into casual conversation.

girlfriend – “Jenna would look so much better as a blonde.”
me – “So you’re saying her “runs over Willie” would increase?”
girlfriend – “I hate you, baseball, and that stupid blog you’re always trying to talk to me about.”

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....=Neyer_Rob

“In other words, if the D helped keep his ERA average-ish in ‘08, it can also be partly to blame for his ballooned ERA in ‘07.”

you’re absolutely right. of course, this is why FIP is a handy (not perfect) way to look at a pitcher. Jackson’s FIP remained nearly identical between ‘07 and ‘08, so its safe to say that his “true” ERA is somewhere between 5.76 and 4.42. however, this average doesn’t strike me as perfect.

without wanting to put too much weight in ERA myself, assuming that is some peoples preferred metric, a +5.00 ERA is still not the stuff you want out of the back of your rotation let alone projecting him above the 4/5 slots (or the #2 if you’re Detnews).

he might be good, thus making the trade good, but that depends on him improving to an extent that he frankly hasn’t shown yet. the “yet” is possible, he’s quite young…but its been said for some time now too. the irony is that we acquired a flyball pitcher, who only appeared roughly average last year because of his team’s defense, by trading away one of our top defensive outfielders. bonus irony, one possible solution would have been to restore the left-field wall to the original dimensions (i know, i know…) but then where would that leave all our power RH batters?

While I do agree with you, it’s helpful to keep in mind that Tampa had one of the worst defenses in the game in 2007. In other words, if the D helped keep his ERA average-ish in ‘08, it can also be partly to blame for his ballooned ERA in ‘07. My take on Jackson is that some years he’ll be perfectly average, and in others he’ll be slightly below. Hopefully ‘09 will be one of the average ones – I’d take that out of a 4/5 starter.

i hate to follow up on your comments in two different forums, but without stirring up too much of the Jackson/Joyce debate, let me qualify a couple things you said

“when the name of the game is run prevention. … Jackson, as a 24-year-old, had a better than league average ERA+”

first, above average ERA+ sounds better than saying “he had a 101 ERA+”, which, even if i were inclined to view ERA as a good metric for a pitcher, means he’s literally average. you’re right in your valuation of defense, but its that same top-of-the-league defense that kept Jackson’s team-worst starting ERA, plus or otherwise, average in the first place.

people aren’t looking enough at his FIP and K numbers. below average pitcher (Jackson FIP & K/BB) + good defense (Tampa’s D) = mediocre results (Jackson ERA). the Tigers have beefed up their infield D, but Jackson is a fly ball guy who’s new outfield has (at best) 4 good knees to go around, so i’m not so sure if he repeats his deceptive numbers from last year.

this trade has the ability to work out, but it hinges on Jackson’s ability to improve, which isn’t a sure thing. if it works out and Jackson finds the strike zone then, given the Tigers pitching needs, this becomes a good trade. in the mean time, the critics (who are looking at numbers) are right to question…especially when all we hear in reply is that Jackson could eventually strike guys out without walking almost as many

Jackson, as a 24-year-old, had a better than league average ERA+ in the toughest division in baseball. Joyce is a fungible corner outfielder who had a nice two-month run last year. This screams the Garza/Delmon Young deal in reverse.

Now we have Verlander, Bonderman, Jackson, Galarraga, and Miner. If we can get anything from Dontrelle, bonus.

Maybe that’s a good thing, frankly