Also he hits better usually when he doesn’t have to worry about catching… and out of any position on the field me thinks he doesn’t like catching too much, since he has said as much.

It’s been announced by JL that Inge is going back to 3B. That and the fact that nobody wants him at C after the way he ended the season there defensively. That and the fact that it makes absolutely no sense anymore. Inge can compensate for his “HORRIBLE” bat at 3B. but not at C.

Google “What about Nate McLouth’s Gold Glove?” for an interesting article tangential to but also highly relevant to the discussion of Granderson’s defensive rating in 2008.

The Bill James handbook is out, but it just has leaders. On billjamesonline.com though they have +/- and Granderson was -12 this year.

Having said that…… we’ve seen Guillen do his Jeckyl/Hyde imitation, looking like the worst SS I’ve ever seen for weeks a time, then whipping out the web-gems left and right for a few weeks at 3B. Perhaps I just caught him on the good days, though there were dozens, maybe I just missed a lot of his bad days.

Is the Bill James book out yet? It will be interesting to see the +/- data gleaned from visual evidence.

OK sarcasm aside, I have no flipping idea what was up with Granderson. After looking like one of the top 3 defensive CF in ‘07, he was pretty mediocre. I’m confident that he’ll be better in ‘09, though. As for Inge/Guillen – I don’t think that’s going to work out badly. We all know that Inge can play 3B like a crazy man. Considering that Sheffield is a lead pipe lock to spend significant time on the DL, Joyce can be shifted to RF with Ordonez at DH so you’ve got upgrades at 2 positions. If Guillen plays a passable LF (and I think he will if he’s healthy), it works.

I guess I think release and Fielding could be one category, it usually doesn’t seem to be that different among players who use 2 hands

Among catchers maybe there is more of a slight variation (not sure) when throwing to a base

Thanks for clearing instincts up

I’d have to agree with you on it, it is important

However I still am not sure it would qualify as a category because in that video game I rarely question it

They automatically do all the shifting for the OF and IF

Out, In, Left, Right, Spray, Pull, Corners in, Double Play depth etc.

usually its effective due to the spray chart

But what choices does the first baseman have usually? should I try and turn 2 or no?

or the third baseman – the same thing

even the SS and the 2B, usually the play is pretty obvious (what bag should I throw to/step on)

I guess for the OF it is different, but since we’ve got a bunch of weak/average arm namby pambies in the OF usually they throw to the cutoff

I mean we don’t have an Ichiro who has the Strength/Accuracy, and can get to nearly every ball

The most recent outfielder with the best arm who played here any length of time, who had a good shot at ignoring the cutoff was Bobby Higginson

He had a good 20 assists 1 year, 19 another and 17 another

Ordonez last year had 8 and the year before 4
Grandy last year 5 and 10 the year before

and our late great OF Craig Monroe(Mr. Sloppy or as I liked to call him – Mr. 1 hand) had 6 in 200 7 and 12 in 2006

my point is on our team its pretty rare option-usually the correct play is obvious to all considering all are major leaguers,

AND when you do have multiple options, usually they are only realistic(probable to work) if you have the other 4 athletic tools

Sorry I sounded so confrontational. Maybe I was a little too blunt. As Andre suggested, it was more your stated reasoning than your point I was questioning. I wasn’t upholding the sacred truth of defensive metrics.

As for Granderson, I’m pretty sure that PMR, using the same methodology as in 2008, showed Granderson to be above average the two previous seasons. It could be that Granderson had some or a lot of bad luck in 2008. For all I know, there could be an undetected error in the calculations. A lot of people are scratching their heads over his low rating, but neither accepting it without question nor rejecting it out of hand.

Even if I watched every Tigers game every year, I’d still give the analytical edge to guys who actually viewed and analyzed a defender’s every play in detail. There’s some hidden truth lurking in those defensive metrics, and probably still more lurking in the disagreement between various metrics.

Thanks for the explanation of this morning’s brief change in site appearance. A Twilight Zone moment, for sure, but my comments were grain of truth surrounded by tongue-in-cheek. Grain of truth being that I’ve always found this blog to be easier on the eye than most.

Instincts, I disagree with you on. The players have brains and have looked over scouting reports. They (especially defenders up the middle) should be able to position themselves accordingly. I think coaches should only be re-adjusting them on whether they want to play the no doubles defense or bringing them in shallow. Instincts, probably, also refers to things like knowing what base to throw to, when to over-throw the cutoff man, when to cut a throw going home to get the runner rounding first, etc etc. The things that seemingly “heads up players” do that others don’t. Think of the good being Jeter way out of position against the A’s to flip the ball home, and the bad being Manny cutting a throw from Damon in the OF while being 15 feet apart from each other.

I mean I really like that site a lot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rNwvHIYPs

If anyone here knows the game MVP Baseball 2005 from EA Sports (Manny on the cover) – it is the most realistic baseball games and one of the most (if not the most) sweetest game ever created (however it isn’t perfect as well)

I’ve played that over the last few years A LOT, and I mean A LOT, simming dynasties(of course usually drafting Tyrus Cobb and Hans Wagner), drafting, managing and just playing exhibition

The reason I bring this up is to relate it to that site (tangotiger fan’s fielding ratings), this PMR by David Pinto that Billfer has shown us… and any other fielding metric (F%, Errors, Assists, PO etc.)

What they do in MVP Baseball 05 is pretty simple

You have only four (count ‘em 4) metrics

1) Range (ground a fielder can cover)
2) Fielding (how often he fields any ball [hard hit or not] cleanly without double clutching or bobbeling)
3) Arm Strength (gun)
4) Arm Accuracy (how often the ball hits the target, usually gets worse the harder and faster he has to get rid of it, another way of saying that is the less time you have to make a play the more often this game believes that if you try to “gun it” you’re more likely to make an error

Of course they don’t take into account positioning (they assume that is directed by the coaching staff/leaders on the field prior to each batter)
They don’t also take into account dives (you can make anyone in this game do all kinds of dives – which is not exactly the same as real life)

And I’m sure I’ve missed a few

But

I think those 4 (Range, Fielding, Arm Strength and Accuracy) would tell you a lot(if not all you need to know) about the player

Using Tangotiger’s site
before I begin on a side note he should have pitchers rated as well as everyone else (they’ve got a glove don’t they?)

he has (I am assuming he is a he) 7 metrics

Instincts, First Step, Speed, Hands, Release, Strength and Accuracy

Instincts – I understand it to be positioning (except for a catcher, what would it be there?) but again positioning (shifts) should happen to all the fielders by the coaching staff
First Step – movement off a crack of a bat
Speed – top speed, speed?
Hands – fielding? how often you come up cleanly with a batted ball?
Release – ?? not sure?? arm angle thrown from? how fast you can do a glove to hand transfer(if needed)
Strength – like before
Accuracy – like before (in MVP)

I just say combine instincts and first step and speed into RANGE, hands is FIELDING, release kind of seems obsolete or minor at best if you’re rating the final two

I duno

There is enough noise in fielding metrics that I’m not saying you’re wrong. There are metrics that just don’t agree. But when you have several metrics all reporting the same thing there’s a pretty good chance it’s true.

PMR doesn’t account for depth of the hit, it accounts for vector, how hard it was hit, and type of hit (as well as handedness and park). So it is possible that Granderson playing a deep centerfield saw more balls drop in. But then I’d question why he was playing so deep.

As for watching each play, the +/- system does have video scouts watching each play and based on where the ball is hit (and other characteristics similar to PMR) they calculate the percentage of time someone makes a play. A player gets lots of credit for making a low percentage play and little credit for making a routine one.