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	<title>Comments on: Rumors, Rumors everywhere</title>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108388</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108388</guid>
		<description>I suppose the Gil extension was mutually beneficial - they wanted to lock him up, he wanted to get paid like a 3B.  That makes sense.  Either way, he&#039;s the face of the franchise (along with Granderson) for a long long time.  Which is good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose the Gil extension was mutually beneficial &#8211; they wanted to lock him up, he wanted to get paid like a 3B.  That makes sense.  Either way, he&#8217;s the face of the franchise (along with Granderson) for a long long time.  Which is good.</p>
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		<title>By: billfer</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108374</link>
		<dc:creator>billfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108374</guid>
		<description>On Cabrera&#039;s extension and the timing of the position move, I do believe it played a factor.  They probably would have liked to have moved him earlier in the spring but they wanted to get him locked up first.  And on Cabrera&#039;s part he probably wanted to be paid like a third baseman rather than a first baseman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Cabrera&#8217;s extension and the timing of the position move, I do believe it played a factor.  They probably would have liked to have moved him earlier in the spring but they wanted to get him locked up first.  And on Cabrera&#8217;s part he probably wanted to be paid like a third baseman rather than a first baseman.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108373</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 22:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108373</guid>
		<description>Loon:  I shall reproduce a question I posed to Keith Law at ESPN during a chat yesterday.  Actual question, actual answer:

&lt;b&gt;Chris (Dallas, TX):&lt;/b&gt; So the Tigers seem to think Ryan Perry could pitch out of the &#039;pen in &#039;09. What are your thoughts on that? Read he has the great velo, but what about the command/secondary stuff? 

&lt;b&gt;Keith Law:&lt;/b&gt; Slider and changeup had good action but he was leaving them belt-high when I saw him in March. If he&#039;s able to change the hitter&#039;s eye levels better, yes, he could pitch in the majors in 2009.

So anyhoo, there&#039;s a possible option for the bullpen at low cost.  He was the #1 pick after all.  I think they could build a bullpen on the cheap and use the extra $$ to upgrade C and SS, but that&#039;s just my armchair GM opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loon:  I shall reproduce a question I posed to Keith Law at ESPN during a chat yesterday.  Actual question, actual answer:</p>
<p><b>Chris (Dallas, TX):</b> So the Tigers seem to think Ryan Perry could pitch out of the &#8216;pen in &#8216;09. What are your thoughts on that? Read he has the great velo, but what about the command/secondary stuff? </p>
<p><b>Keith Law:</b> Slider and changeup had good action but he was leaving them belt-high when I saw him in March. If he&#8217;s able to change the hitter&#8217;s eye levels better, yes, he could pitch in the majors in 2009.</p>
<p>So anyhoo, there&#8217;s a possible option for the bullpen at low cost.  He was the #1 pick after all.  I think they could build a bullpen on the cheap and use the extra $$ to upgrade C and SS, but that&#8217;s just my armchair GM opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108372</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 22:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108372</guid>
		<description>My confidence in Ramon the Pool Boy is greater. He&#039;ll be making more than in 2008, but he&#039;s still the cheapest/best choice I can see. I think it&#039;s important to go cheap at SS and C, no more combined than (say) that $6.5MM Greene has coming. Bullpen!

So... Lopez, Dolsi, Seay. Rapada, Rodney, Zumaya, hand the ball to Fien and say, &quot;You&#039;re the closer, kid. Sink or swim.&quot; Is that the plan? Yeah, all those young guys might be ready in 2010. But that&#039;s 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My confidence in Ramon the Pool Boy is greater. He&#8217;ll be making more than in 2008, but he&#8217;s still the cheapest/best choice I can see. I think it&#8217;s important to go cheap at SS and C, no more combined than (say) that $6.5MM Greene has coming. Bullpen!</p>
<p>So&#8230; Lopez, Dolsi, Seay. Rapada, Rodney, Zumaya, hand the ball to Fien and say, &#8220;You&#8217;re the closer, kid. Sink or swim.&#8221; Is that the plan? Yeah, all those young guys might be ready in 2010. But that&#8217;s 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108368</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108368</guid>
		<description>Well, Greene received precisely 4 votes for the Fielding Bible Awards this year.  I guess that means he might be average or a little better.  Last season he was +7 in the ol&#039; plus/minus system, but this year he didn&#039;t rank near the top or bottom.  Of course he was injured and missed a chunk of time in 2008. In &#039;06 he was +12.  This is better than Renteria&#039;s combined -1,843 during those seasons.  So he&#039;d be an upgrade.  Considering the $3MM buyout on Renteria is a done deal and Greene&#039;s $6.5MM contract, you&#039;re paying $9.5MM for a low OBP slightly above average SS.  No, wait - I&#039;m still not sure who actually paid that buyout.  I think I read that Boston was responsible for it.  Anyhoo, Greene might be the best of a bad crop at SS.  I&#039;m still not a believer in Ramon the Everyday SS (I think I watched too much election coverage, what with my use of first name + the + occupation).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Greene received precisely 4 votes for the Fielding Bible Awards this year.  I guess that means he might be average or a little better.  Last season he was +7 in the ol&#8217; plus/minus system, but this year he didn&#8217;t rank near the top or bottom.  Of course he was injured and missed a chunk of time in 2008. In &#8216;06 he was +12.  This is better than Renteria&#8217;s combined -1,843 during those seasons.  So he&#8217;d be an upgrade.  Considering the $3MM buyout on Renteria is a done deal and Greene&#8217;s $6.5MM contract, you&#8217;re paying $9.5MM for a low OBP slightly above average SS.  No, wait &#8211; I&#8217;m still not sure who actually paid that buyout.  I think I read that Boston was responsible for it.  Anyhoo, Greene might be the best of a bad crop at SS.  I&#8217;m still not a believer in Ramon the Everyday SS (I think I watched too much election coverage, what with my use of first name + the + occupation).</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108367</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108367</guid>
		<description>Ha! Bill Simmons’ Reggie Cleveland All-Stars. I knew nothing about this, or the Tyson Zone, or the rest. Pretty funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! Bill Simmons’ Reggie Cleveland All-Stars. I knew nothing about this, or the Tyson Zone, or the rest. Pretty funny.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108366</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108366</guid>
		<description>Greene still strikes out a lot, though, Chris. Unimpressive OBP for a guy with moderate pop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greene still strikes out a lot, though, Chris. Unimpressive OBP for a guy with moderate pop.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108365</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108365</guid>
		<description>Thanks for bringing up the ballpark factor on Khalil Greene, Chris. My latest* source on his defense at SS says &quot;quite good.&quot; $6.5MM, huh? You know, I&#039;m kinda looking forward to Santiago. Don&#039;t ruin it for me.

Another desperate scheme for moving Sheffield: Bad contract swap with Boston for Julio Lugo. But wait, there are multiple years of Lugo. OK, Sheffield to the Yankees, along with Nate Robertson and Fernando Rodney, for Johnny Damon. The Tigers would then trade Damon for pitching, of course. No, wait - Sheffield to the Yankees for the guys we got him for. No, wait - Sheffield to the Yankees along with Robertson. Take Sheffield and pay him, and we&#039;ll &lt;i&gt;give&lt;/i&gt; you Robertson.  

It&#039;s a coping mechanism, that&#039;s all.

* By definition synonymous with &quot;absolute truth.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for bringing up the ballpark factor on Khalil Greene, Chris. My latest* source on his defense at SS says &#8220;quite good.&#8221; $6.5MM, huh? You know, I&#8217;m kinda looking forward to Santiago. Don&#8217;t ruin it for me.</p>
<p>Another desperate scheme for moving Sheffield: Bad contract swap with Boston for Julio Lugo. But wait, there are multiple years of Lugo. OK, Sheffield to the Yankees, along with Nate Robertson and Fernando Rodney, for Johnny Damon. The Tigers would then trade Damon for pitching, of course. No, wait &#8211; Sheffield to the Yankees for the guys we got him for. No, wait &#8211; Sheffield to the Yankees along with Robertson. Take Sheffield and pay him, and we&#8217;ll <i>give</i> you Robertson.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a coping mechanism, that&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>* By definition synonymous with &#8220;absolute truth.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108364</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108364</guid>
		<description>Well, there&#039;s a couple positive things I could add about Khalil Greene if I wanted to.  Of course first and foremost he&#039;s an excellent member of Bill Simmons&#039; Reggie Cleveland All-Stars, so he&#039;s got that going for him.  And also, he&#039;s been quite stifled by playing his home games at PETCO Park, which we all know is death for hitters.  Career @ home - .225/.289/.369, career on road - .270/.318/.484.  Considering that he also plays a pantload of games at Dodger Stadium and Phone Company Park in SF, he&#039;s played a lot of road games in tough hitting environments as well.  I haven&#039;t dug into his defensive numbers, but anecdotally I seem to remeber him being described as &#039;average&#039;.  He also looks a lot like Jeff Spicoli.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there&#8217;s a couple positive things I could add about Khalil Greene if I wanted to.  Of course first and foremost he&#8217;s an excellent member of Bill Simmons&#8217; Reggie Cleveland All-Stars, so he&#8217;s got that going for him.  And also, he&#8217;s been quite stifled by playing his home games at PETCO Park, which we all know is death for hitters.  Career @ home &#8211; .225/.289/.369, career on road &#8211; .270/.318/.484.  Considering that he also plays a pantload of games at Dodger Stadium and Phone Company Park in SF, he&#8217;s played a lot of road games in tough hitting environments as well.  I haven&#8217;t dug into his defensive numbers, but anecdotally I seem to remeber him being described as &#8216;average&#8217;.  He also looks a lot like Jeff Spicoli.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108363</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108363</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m kinda glad Furcal is off the table. Could have been a Renteria-style misadventure. Don&#039;t see the point in going after a stopgap like Greene (whose career hitting looks worse and worse the closer you look) when you already have a less expensive stopgap - Santiago. 

There just isn&#039;t a SS available under favorable terms that can justify relegating Santiago to the bench again. So I see more of a need for infield depth. Nick Punto could provide it. Is there someone else along those lines, only better, that I&#039;m missing? It&#039;s either that or groom Inge to back up SS, and keep Raburn and Larish/Hessman as your infield bench. Which still doesn&#039;t leave room to keep both Joyce and Thames, either of whom have more value to the team than Raburn. With better options at 3B, Raburn&#039;s only infield value is at 2B. If I could trade Raburn for a guy with a similar bat that could play a decent SS-2B, I would. I just haven&#039;t seen that guy out there yet. Any ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m kinda glad Furcal is off the table. Could have been a Renteria-style misadventure. Don&#8217;t see the point in going after a stopgap like Greene (whose career hitting looks worse and worse the closer you look) when you already have a less expensive stopgap &#8211; Santiago. </p>
<p>There just isn&#8217;t a SS available under favorable terms that can justify relegating Santiago to the bench again. So I see more of a need for infield depth. Nick Punto could provide it. Is there someone else along those lines, only better, that I&#8217;m missing? It&#8217;s either that or groom Inge to back up SS, and keep Raburn and Larish/Hessman as your infield bench. Which still doesn&#8217;t leave room to keep both Joyce and Thames, either of whom have more value to the team than Raburn. With better options at 3B, Raburn&#8217;s only infield value is at 2B. If I could trade Raburn for a guy with a similar bat that could play a decent SS-2B, I would. I just haven&#8217;t seen that guy out there yet. Any ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108360</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108360</guid>
		<description>I think billfer&#039;s onto something with Josh Bard. Ramon Hernandez is too expensive. Henry Blanco would still be my first choice. Gerald Laird, OK. 

How about Gregg Zaun? Switch hitter, consistently good OBP. 

Any hope for the return (resigning) of Vance Wilson?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think billfer&#8217;s onto something with Josh Bard. Ramon Hernandez is too expensive. Henry Blanco would still be my first choice. Gerald Laird, OK. </p>
<p>How about Gregg Zaun? Switch hitter, consistently good OBP. </p>
<p>Any hope for the return (resigning) of Vance Wilson?</p>
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		<title>By: Plain old Andre (in Chicago)</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108354</link>
		<dc:creator>Plain old Andre (in Chicago)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 23:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108354</guid>
		<description>Chris, 

I&#039;m going to disagree, partly. 

I don&#039;t know to what extent the contract and its timing had on the move from 3rd to 1st...I suspect it had something to do with it, and I do recall reading similar somewhere (I&#039;ll try to dig that up). Now, on that point, don&#039;t believe everything you read...it happened to be something I read, and I thought it made some sense and could have been a factor. 

&quot;They paid him like a 3B, which is a more premium defensive position.&quot;

Maybe so, but I think his contract had everything to do with his numbers, of both the production and age variety, and little if anything to do with what position he played. They weren&#039;t looking for a 3B, Illich saw a chance to get .300/+30HR/+100RBI and said, &quot;I want that&quot;. That Cabrera happened to play 3B was secondary, as evidence in part to the uncertainty of where he would play once the trade was announced.

What I&#039;m getting at is that there&#039;s likely, the sweet baby-Jesus willing, going to be less uncertainty of the &quot;where is Tiger X going to play&quot; sort. They seem pretty sure of where they want to put the existing pieces, while still looking to address shortages at SS and C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to disagree, partly. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know to what extent the contract and its timing had on the move from 3rd to 1st&#8230;I suspect it had something to do with it, and I do recall reading similar somewhere (I&#8217;ll try to dig that up). Now, on that point, don&#8217;t believe everything you read&#8230;it happened to be something I read, and I thought it made some sense and could have been a factor. </p>
<p>&#8220;They paid him like a 3B, which is a more premium defensive position.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe so, but I think his contract had everything to do with his numbers, of both the production and age variety, and little if anything to do with what position he played. They weren&#8217;t looking for a 3B, Illich saw a chance to get .300/+30HR/+100RBI and said, &#8220;I want that&#8221;. That Cabrera happened to play 3B was secondary, as evidence in part to the uncertainty of where he would play once the trade was announced.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m getting at is that there&#8217;s likely, the sweet baby-Jesus willing, going to be less uncertainty of the &#8220;where is Tiger X going to play&#8221; sort. They seem pretty sure of where they want to put the existing pieces, while still looking to address shortages at SS and C.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108353</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 22:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108353</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think Cabrera&#039;s contract extension had anything to do with anything.  They paid him like a 3B, which is a more premium defensive position.  If he&#039;d have been a 1B, the contract probably wouldn&#039;t have been as rich since it&#039;s a lot easier to find a slugging 1B in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Cabrera&#8217;s contract extension had anything to do with anything.  They paid him like a 3B, which is a more premium defensive position.  If he&#8217;d have been a 1B, the contract probably wouldn&#8217;t have been as rich since it&#8217;s a lot easier to find a slugging 1B in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108352</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 22:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108352</guid>
		<description>Andre, I never thought of Cabrera&#039;s contract extension as a factor. Maybe someone mentioned that earlier and I forgot. Maybe I was the one who mentioned it. 

Who are you? Where am I?

Anyway, as I was saying, OK, sure, on Rogers. Let&#039;s have a look, if he still wants to pitch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andre, I never thought of Cabrera&#8217;s contract extension as a factor. Maybe someone mentioned that earlier and I forgot. Maybe I was the one who mentioned it. </p>
<p>Who are you? Where am I?</p>
<p>Anyway, as I was saying, OK, sure, on Rogers. Let&#8217;s have a look, if he still wants to pitch.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108351</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/11/rumors-rumors-everywhere-2/#comment-108351</guid>
		<description>&quot;Shouldn’t be getting regular AB’s.&quot;

Worth examining (or revisiting endlessly, take your pick). If the 25 HR were worth the 95 K in 342 PA, why couldn&#039;t the 40 HR be worth the 153 K in 550 PA? I don&#039;t think we have any reason to believe that Thames&#039;s power is going to nosedive with too many PA. Dude won some games! Coulda won more! Thames! Woo! Thames! Woo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Shouldn’t be getting regular AB’s.&#8221;</p>
<p>Worth examining (or revisiting endlessly, take your pick). If the 25 HR were worth the 95 K in 342 PA, why couldn&#8217;t the 40 HR be worth the 153 K in 550 PA? I don&#8217;t think we have any reason to believe that Thames&#8217;s power is going to nosedive with too many PA. Dude won some games! Coulda won more! Thames! Woo! Thames! Woo!</p>
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