Catch-all post

I know there is a lot of interest in some of the rumors swirling around the Tigers (like Julio Lugo) and that people want to comment on signings that may or may not effect the Tigers  (Jeremy Affeldt).  While I don’t have a lot to say about these things (though I don’t want Lugo and Affeldt for 2 years at $4 million per is pretty attractive) I know that others do want to talk about it.  In an effort to keep the discussion on other research-y type posts centered on the topic of the post (this is a blog afterall and not a message board), please use this as your catch-all thread for rumors and signings.

Of course if anything related to the Tigers breaks, we’ll be sure to cover it in depth.

64 Comments

  1. Smoking Loon

    November 18, 2008 at 12:30 am

    Thanks for the post on Affeldt, Mark. That was a name I hadn’t seen lately, wasn’t even on my radar. Too late now, I guess.

  2. Jennifer

    November 18, 2008 at 11:33 am

    I’ve read all the discussion on Lugo, and haven’t posted on him myself because it’s all been said, but I will be the exploded pressure cooker if we trade for him. We need better defense, and um, he’s not it. The rumors are stronger than ever, featured on MLB.com and the like, but I’m holding out hope that they remain only harmless rumors (actually, they’re not harmless, they’ve been making me crazy).

  3. Scott

    November 18, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    Have to agree with you, Jen. I’d rather have Santiago than Lugo. The Tigers should necessarily be trying to dump Nate or Dontrelle, either. Chances are both will rebound from last year’s nightmare, though to what degree remains to be seen. I think they’re better off at SS to sign someone cheap (like MacDonald) and hope Cale Iorg develops quickly.

    DD should start a new policy: No Retreads Allowed!

  4. Mark in Chicago

    November 18, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    my re-post from the other thread:

    not sure where this comment belongs, but this seems like the place for it. sorry billfer if you’d rather it be somewhere else.

    according to mlbtraderumors, the Giants signed Jeremy Affeldt for 2 years, $8 million. It’s a little disappointing not to see DD out after this guy. He could have closed (he allegedly wants to), $4 million per is a reasonable cost, and DD could have even attached an option year to sweeten the deal. All this would have cost a supplemental pick, as Affeldt was type B.

    Obviously, I have no idea if DD was in the mix or not, and maybe he doesn’t think Affeldt can close. But I firmly believe that Affeldt would have taken a closing gig in a good pitcher’s park if it was offered to him. This is exactly the type of guy we should be looking at.

    as for Lugo, I agree with the sentiments of Jennifer and Scott. There are many more palatable alternatives than just swapping one bad contract for another.

  5. Chris in Dallas

    November 18, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    I’d prefer to see Lugo elsewhere. If recent history is a guide, Boston SS do not perform well in Motown.

  6. Mark in Chicago

    November 18, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    if recent history is any guide, then Lugo is not very good at baseball.

  7. Chris in Dallas

    November 18, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Mark: And there’s that.

  8. Ryan

    November 18, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Yeah. No Lugo. Not even close. Especially not for Nate. I still think that as a lefty starter with a reasonable contract, he will have positive trade value at some point this offseason. Not a whole lot, but I don’t think he needs to be part of a terrible-contract swap. If Nate IS going to be part of a bad-contract swap, it really should be for a catcher (Torrealba or Hernandez, anyone?).

  9. JAY-RC

    November 18, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Could not agree more with you on Lugo.

    Scott
    I also agree that perhaps with Knap on board Robertson and Willis will at least some what resemble their formerselves.

    Ryan
    Hernandez would be a nice fit to our Team Venezuala
    Wonder if they are offering him?

  10. Mark in Chicago

    November 18, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Good point JAY-RC. Knapp hasn’t even had an opportunity to work with everyone (anyone?) from last year’s staff. It’s possible that Robertson or Willis could show improvement after a few mechanical tweaks. Selling low on those guys in order to get a crappy shortstop seems a little short-sighted, IMO.

    Also, Lugo has a $9 million option for 2010 that kicks in based on plate appearances. So this is not necessarily just a one-year stopgap.

  11. Chris in Dallas

    November 18, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    I for one hope that Knapp can figure out what the eff is wrong with Dontrelle Willis. The guy obviously has talent – I don’t think his good years were a fluke or anything. If he can figure it out, he could be a nice addition without actually giving anything up.

  12. mcb

    November 18, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Anyone else notice Dan Dickerson broadcasting college basketball on fsn??

  13. billfer

    November 18, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Before getting the Tigers gig Dickerson did Michigan basketball for several years. I’d imagine he’s just trying to keep busy during the offseason.

  14. David

    November 18, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3708873

    Giants Affeldt 2 years 8 million$$$

  15. David

    November 18, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    I also found this to be interesting

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3709884

    16 year old Japanese girl signed with a pro team – learned how to throw a decent knuckleball

  16. JAY-RC

    November 18, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    Nice thread David
    Seriously makes me want to learn to throw the knuckle ball! Maybe on open tryout day in Lakeland this year I’ll crack a spot in the tigers pen?!
    Alright jk

  17. David

    November 19, 2008 at 12:11 am

    LOL

    uno mas – http://www.mlive.com/tigers/in.....marke.html

    two things

    I’ve already discussed with you guys why not to go after Lugo but

    WHY would we want Craig Counsell or David Eckstein? over Everett?

    Neither add much offensively!, and neither are close to him(Everett) defensively according to the fans

    Counsell got a 70 overall (49 arm strength) last year
    and surprisingly 69 in 2006 (48 arm strength)

    Everett was rated a 90 btw in 2006 just for reference (highest in MLB)

    Eckstein got a 48 overall last year (2007) but with an arm strength of 7!!!
    In ’06 he got a 56 overall with a arm strength of 10!!!

  18. Mark in Chicago

    November 19, 2008 at 11:27 am

    like the new look, billfer.

  19. Tigercub33

    November 19, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Just wanted to get the reaction here on Coco Crisp becoming a Royal. I don’t know much about teh Royals bullpen, but Moore must feel they have a surplus of arms after trading away two guys for Jacobs and Crisp.

    The Royals could really move up this year.

  20. Tigercub33

    November 19, 2008 at 11:52 am

    Well, since I don’t know how to edit comments in this new format…(edit, I guess I can only edit when I am still on the page…)
    It appears I may have jumped the gun a bit (according to MLBTradeRumors). Still, it is an interesting development.

  21. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    Woah. New look. This will take some getting used to.

  22. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    David: What’s wrong with Eckstein? This team is woeful in the scrappy gamer department. Signing him would be like injecting 100% pure sweat and dirt. Seriously, though I don’t think any the three headed hydra of grit (Counsell-Eckstein-Everett) are worth it. None of them are very “good” at “baseball” anymore.

  23. rea

    November 19, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Lugo? Bah! Might as well keep Renteria . . .

    At a minimum, the Tigers need a shortstop who can field the ball (Santiago?) Offense is bonus–but Lugo can’t hit better than Santiago, anyway.

    Santiago might not be the best option, but we sure don’t need some washed up retread . . .

  24. Mark in Chicago

    November 19, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    looks like Coco to the Royals is a done deal, tigercub. It’s a nice move for them, he can hit leadoff and play CF. They have plenty of OF now, so I would suspect they trade one of them (my guess is Teahan) for a bullpen arm. DeJesus could bring a nice batch of prospects too.

  25. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    I would recommend that the Tigers do not incite any bench clearing incidents with the Royals if this Crisp thing is a done deal.

  26. David

    November 19, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    I forgot to mention the new format, very snazzy!

    (although the time is still an hour fast)

  27. allthewine

    November 19, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    love the new look billfer!

  28. Tigercub33

    November 19, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    I think the Royals would love to move Teahan if possible (and the Cubs are looking for a LH bat). I think DeJesus brings back a greater haul though.

  29. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    I would like KC to move Teahen. He’s a FTK (Fearless Tiger Killer).

  30. Dre in Chi

    November 19, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....Id=rss_fla

    Rabelo on waivers, thoughts? as a bonus, a friend of mine pointed out we could recoup some more of that FLA-trade value.

  31. Tigercub33

    November 19, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Since this is “catch-all” I wanted to get some thoughts on why the Tigers are not being mantioned (nationally) as being involved in talks for any SPs. It seems to me that we have, at the very last, one spot open in the rotation. If the Tigers are truly going to contend, then we really cannot rely upon Freddy Garcia as our FA SP option.

  32. Smoking Loon

    November 19, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Would the Pirates consider trading Matt Capps? If so, I think the Tigers have some spare parts worth more to Pittsburgh than Detroit. Trading for Capps would not preclude harvesting of the prospect crop in 2010 – and it would also be a way to hedge bets on this.

    What’s the word on Capps beyond the stats, anyone?

  33. JAY-RC

    November 19, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Smoking Loon
    Matt Capps is an interesting name to bring up. He had a couple stints at closer and performed well and as you pointed out he wouldnt cost much. I wonder if they have an interest in him??
    DRE
    Adding Rabelo would indeed be cheap and he did show that he was “back-up” worthy in 2007. Perhaps that would also be a nice cheap fix.

    Both or one move like that would allow us to snag a set-up man and a stopgate short stop as well all with our limited funds.
    Oliver,Beimel,Cruz any of them? Counsell-Eckstein-Everett-Punto?

  34. Smoking Loon

    November 19, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    “Oliver,Beimel,Cruz any of them? Counsell-Eckstein-Everett-Punto?”

    All are acceptable to me, even the oft-maligned Eckstein (and no, I’m not after scrap or grit).

    “Rabelo on waivers, thoughts?’

    Got my interest this morning. Looking back, I think Rodriguez and Rabelo for 2008-2009 would have been preferable. Now… no on Rabelo.

    “talks for any SPs”

    I don’t think the Tigers are in the market for (i.e., can afford) anyone who is any less of a question mark than Garcia.

  35. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Capps had shoulder issues, but rebounded for a fairly productive September. I don’t think the Pirates have any interest in moving him at this point, though. He’s part of the future that they’ve been building for these last 15 years.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg.....14-100.stm

  36. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    SP-wise here’s what the Tigers will have to choose from internally: Verlander, Bonderman, Galarraga, Robertson, Willis, Miner, Tata, Lambert and an assortment of random minor leaguers. Am I missing anyone? Anyway, I’m confident that 4 of those guys could be reasonably productive on a contending team (the first four). More depth is needed, but with payroll constraints and a lack of top prospects they’re not in the Sabathia/Burnett/Lowe/Peavy sweepstakes. Maybe a reclamation project like Garcia would be willing to sign an incentive-laden deal. If the price is right, the following FA might be OK: Colon, Pavano, Penny, Wolf, Benson. Obviously there’s a lot of question marks in there, but there was a lot of ? about Kyle Lohse too and the Cardinals got a lot of value out of him. I don’t know. Sometimes you have to roll the dice.

  37. Smoking Loon

    November 19, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    “He’s part of the future that they’ve been building for these last 15 years.’

    Good one, Chris. The future they’ve been trading away these last 15 years. That’s what I’m counting on to get Capps. I’d give them Thames, Raburn, and Rodney. All decent, none needed, all useful to the Bucs. If Rodney wasn’t good enough, I’d give them Future Man himself instead (Joel Zumaya) and Thames.

  38. Tigercub33

    November 19, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    I see a possible rotation of Verlander, Bonderman, AG and Miner. After that you have nothing but massive question marks. If the Tigers really ARE going to contend then they need a sure arm in there as I think you see some regression from AG and Miner, plus who knows on Bonderman’s health. It would seem that SP should be the highest priority, followed by a pen arm. You already have the defense you need at SS with Santiago.

    The more I look it – the stop gap stuff is NOT going to work and the Tigers would be better off (especially with ticket sales expected to be WAY down this year) trading Magglio and Polanco for prospects/young MLBers.

  39. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    I’m going to go out on a limb and say Bonderman wins the Cy Young in 2009. I’m in an irrational prediction mood this afternoon.

  40. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    I’d trade Polanco before I’d trade Ordonez. I think you could get a reasonable facsimile of Polly’s production easier than Maggs. That said, I don’t think I’d trade either. I wish there was some way to put Sheffield out to pasture, though. I think Ordonez has officially entered the “must DH” phase of his career.

  41. Dre in Chi

    November 19, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    “The more I look it – the stop gap stuff is NOT going to work and the Tigers would be better off (especially with ticket sales expected to be WAY down this year) trading Magglio and Polanco for prospects/young MLBers.”

    Tcub, i understand the idea of shedding payroll because of a predicted drop in attendance, the problem is that trading those two would likely lower attendance further. i think the economy will have a bigger impact (maybe that’s where your coming from), but if the Tigers do well next year, there’s a good chance the fans will come. i expect Maggs and Polly to figure heavily into any success the Tigs have next year, so i say keep ‘em.

  42. Mark in Chicago

    November 19, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Chris,

    Agree on both points regarding Polly and Maggs. I like Polly, but it’s not like he’s irreplaceable. I think he’s a F/A after this season, and I would guess he’ll be a type A when it’s all said and done. He won’t take arbitration, so draft picks would be nice if he signed elsewhere.

    Maggs is rapidly entering DH-only status, and so is Guillen. I’d like to trade Guillen, frankly, while he still has value. I have a feeling we’ll go into spring training with at least one position unsettled (most likely catcher).

    As for the starters, I can’t say I agree with your thinking that Bondo wins the 2009 Cy Young, but I give you full credit for sticking your neck out. I will make a more reasonable prediction and say that Rick Porcello gets called up mid season and makes at least 10 starts for the big club.

    They do need another starter, though.

  43. Tigercub33

    November 19, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Dre – that is exactly where I was going (in regards to the economy).

    Perhaps I am an optomist in this regard, but if you put young exciting players out there (the kind we could get from Maggs and PP) – the fans will come out.

    I am pessimistic for NEXT year though – I think we are behind the White Sox and Twins, and perhaps even the Indians (and dare I say the Royals). We have the pieces to build around and it seems like we could get maxium value for Maggs and PP (I could see each one to the Cubs for example).

    Then again, the taste of 2008, plus Michigan and Lions football maybe just has me looking at losing and rebuilding so much I cannot get out of that mold.

    I also agree that trading PP makes more sense than trading Maggs (but I would trade both – depending upon returns)

  44. Smoking Loon

    November 19, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    “I see a possible rotation of Verlander, Bonderman, AG and Miner. After that you have nothing but massive question marks.”

    The fifth starter is a question mark for most teams. It could be that the Tigers need another candidate, but the above is not an effective argument for that.

    I’m all for Santiago, but his defense at SS is unspectacular, and they could use some more depth and + defense up the middle. Assuming Inge isn’t yet a SS (he’s listed as such on the mlb.com depth chart).

    Please, let’s not trade Polanco and/or Maggs. Not even as part of a deal with the Angels that would bring Aybar or Izturis, as good as those players suddenly sound to me.

    Irrarional predictions? Let me make one. Gary Sheffield gets MVP votes in 2009. For a season in a Mets uniform. I’m not sure which part is more irrational.

    Only one thing could possibly make me sanguine about Sheffield sticking around for 2009, and that would be Guillen moving back to SS. Guillen to SS is the philosopher’s stone of personnel moves, turning a team with 4 DHs into a workable proposition. At least until he gets injured.

  45. David

    November 19, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    I figured it out, I figured it out

    I just had an epiphany to solve our SS needs

    Miguel Cabrera to the New York Yankees

    for

    Alex Rodriguez

    Stick him back at SS

    Take him away from the NY pressure watch his #s grow

    Its brilliant

    We need a SS and they a 1st baseman

    oh yea there is a money thing and the age difference

    but both aren’t significant enough IMO

  46. Chris in Dallas

    November 19, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    I don’t think A-Rod can play SS any longer though. And I would officially urinate on my local Little Caesars if that trade were to happen.

  47. Dre in Chi

    November 19, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    “they a 1st baseman”

    they (Yankees) likely filled their perceived need with the Swisher trade a couple days ago. likely the only A-Rod “#s” that would grow would be those of his age. other than those little bits, i’m all for A-Rod @ SS.

  48. Tigercub33

    November 19, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    “The fifth starter is a question mark for most teams. It could be that the Tigers need another candidate, but the above is not an effective argument for that.”

    My apologies Loon. I was hurrying my post as I am also trying to do work.

    I don’t see the Tigers as having a true #2 (or #1 if you see Verlander as a #2). While I do not think we should be going after CC, I would like to see us go after Burnett, Lowe, Oliver Perez, or Ben Sheets. I think the money would be better spent there than on any FA SS ( I am still in favor of a Greene/Santiago platoon). I think Miner is a back-end of the rotation guy (a #5) and AG, while awesome last year is more of a #4 – or #3 if Bonderman returns and is not great.

    Hopefully that explains my thinking a bit more…

  49. David

    November 19, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    Why can’t he play SS? He was the best, and it’s not like he is 60

    He’ll outperform Miggy offensively too

    The only reason it would be unfair to us is that Arod is owed more and he is older

    In the second aspect I don’t see him aging like some other guys do

  50. David

    November 19, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    Dre I could see him posting up yearly totals 130 runs and 130 RBI, 20 steals batting .300 40HRs year in year out

    Is Miggy going to do any better?

  51. David

    November 19, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    For the period since 1996, Rodriguez leads Major League Baseball in home runs (HR), runs scored, runs batted in (RBI), total bases, and extra-base hits. Among all players in baseball history prior to their 31st birthday, he is currently first in runs scored and total bases, second in extra base hits and RBI, and fourth in hits. In addition, to this point in his career Rodriguez has more home runs, runs batted in, runs scored, and base hits than all–time leaders Hank Aaron (RBI), Barry Bonds (HR), Rickey Henderson (runs scored), and Pete Rose (hits) did prior to their 31st birthdays. He is the youngest player ever to hit 500 home runs, breaking the record Jimmie Foxx set in 1939. He is also the youngest player in Major League history to hit for the cycle, at the age of 21.

    Rodriguez has been cited as among the best all–around players currently in Major League Baseball. He has also been compared with many all-time great players.[1][2][3]

    from wiki

  52. Dre in Chi

    November 19, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    David,

    i could see Lake Michigan from my office if it weren’t for some sky-scrapers. of course your vision is an extension of his career averages (which are ridiculous, and yes he was a fantastic SS), and should continue for some time as long as nothing unforeseen happens and he doesn’t decline with age (and how rare is that?). i just find it strange that, with the Tigers current state of disastrous contracts, you’d want to gamble on his continued production over the course of his contract. plus the dude’s buying ridic condos to be closer to Madonna…i don’t want the skeeze to rub off (pardon the word-painting) on any of the Tigers. i would vote no on Prop-Rod. also, i thought you were joking at first, but now it seems you’re serious…i wasn’t really prepared for that given the initial postulation.

    From Cot’s Contracts:

    A-Rod
    # 08:$27M, 09:$32M, 10:$32M, 11:$31M, 12:$29M, 13:$28M, 14:$25M, 15:$21M, 16:$20M, 17:$20M

    M-Cab
    08:$11.3M, 09:$15M, 10:$20M, 11:$20M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$22M, 15:$22M

  53. David

    November 19, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Hmmm if those are the $$$$$$#s then maybe not…

    I thought arod was making closer to 20 mil than 30 mil the next few years

    based on what you posted he wont be doing that untill 2015, 2016 and 1017

    Still a few points

    1) Swisher could be their corner OF

    2) I don’t think an extension of career averages would be ridiculous , I think it would happen if he got out of NY

    Maybe I got over enthusiastic

    that contract, you are right, would be a hangup

    Although imagining him playing in an Olde English D would be nice

    Plus it’s nice to think up crazy stuff considering how quiet it has been since the end of September

  54. Dre in Chi

    November 19, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    David,

    “Although imagining him playing in an Olde English D would be nice”

    if it weren’t for the contract and Madonna, i would be hard pressed to disagree with you. i’ll also admit there’s a potential for M-Cab’s contract to blow up in the Tigers face if he balloons in weight and/or becomes injury prone.

  55. Dre in Chi

    November 19, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    Hernandez = Indians bullpen coach

    http://www.freep.com/article/2.....0/SPORTS02

  56. Smoking Loon

    November 19, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    Tigercub33

    Sorry. I’m getting to be quite the nitpicker in these slow times for DTW. I see what you’re getting at. But I think cost remains an obstacle to signing any “name” – let alone big money – starting pitcher. Not that Freddie Garcia isn’t “name,” but you know what I mean.

    Pedro Martinez, anyone?

    Thinking out loud:

    Catcher is the one area the Tigers cannot reasonably leave alone, unless the prospect of a Ryan/Skelton platoon is to be taken seriously. SS, relief pitching, starting pitching – they really could go with what they have already, in-house. (Even if the in-house resembled an outhouse in 2008). Could. But while the most pressing need is at C, the most expensive need is pitching. The most pressing need there is for a closer. Maybe if the Tigers traded for a closer and went cheap at SS and C, there would be money left over for a quality starter whose name didn’t end in ???. But is it necessary? Is it advisable, seeing how much was already committed to Bonderman, Robertson, and Willis, and what happened with that, and with resigning Verlander on the horizon? I can’t see it. I used to, before I understood the money part.

    1. Get a closer. Sign Hoffman, trade for Putz or Capps. Someone! Don’t be too cheap.
    2. Get a catcher. Sign Blanco or Bard or Zaun. Trade for Montero or Baird. Hire Somali pirates to steal Shoppach.
    3. Either move Guillen back to SS or trade for Hardy or get some real middle infield defensive talent. Everett or Punto or Counsell or Aybar or _____.
    4. Starting pitcher? Since the Tigers tipped their hand about the need for a lefty setup guy even before 1), there is very little money left, if any, at this point. Two starters the Tigers can now afford to sign – and maybe should – have names that rhyme with “Garcia” and “Rogers.”

  57. Chris in Dallas

    November 20, 2008 at 11:54 am

    Loon: I can’t believe you invoked the name Nick Punto in a serious manner. For shame.

  58. Dre in Chi

    November 20, 2008 at 11:58 am

    “Hire Somali pirates to steal Shoppach.”

    if for no other reason than this, i’m pleased that pirates (of the non-Disney variety) are once again relevant.

  59. Tigercub33

    November 20, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    I get what you are saying Loon. I am looking at price as well (but probably being too optomistic on terms).

    I see JJ Hardy’s being thrown around here (and only here) as a target for the Tigers. I would LOVE to snag him. What would the Brewers want in return? I would think pitching – something the Tigers cannot really give up. Still looking at the Brewers, coudl Bill Hall be an option. It is 2 years since he played SS – but he was pretty solid when he was there. He is coming off a down year and might be a better option going forward that Khalil Greene as he is more versatile.

  60. Dre in Chi

    November 20, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    “Either move Guillen back to SS or trade for Hardy or get some real middle infield defensive talent. Everett or Punto or Counsell or Aybar”

    Loon,

    I’m officially putting all my weight as Fantasy Assistant GM behind the Tigers picking up Punto. I’m not positive, but he doesn’t seem like a significant drop-off defensively from Everett (who I would otherwise have liked) and has a significant (but relative) offensive upside over Everett. Also I have no shame, and wish to vex Chris. As far as Hardy, I agree with T-Cub that with the impending departure of Sabathia, the Brewers will look for pitching in return, and as we’re all painfully aware, the Tigers have a uh, “shortage” of pitching. Lets be honest, there really are too many comedic upsides to having Punto on the team.

  61. Smoking Loon

    November 21, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    Hey Chris

    I’m aware of all the jokes that were made about Nick Punto any time the Tigers played the Twins, so I was biased against him to begin with. But then I checked him out, numbers-wise, offensively and defensively. What’s the knock on Punto, really? I’m not looking for a Furcal. I’d settle for another Santiago, with a bit more defensive skill. Maybe I’m missing something, but there seems to be a lot of upside to Punto as Santiago insurance and decent 3-position infield depth. (Glad you’re with me, Dre!)

    Santiago’s 2003 was one season a long time ago. Lots of players struggle in their first season. The Tigers didn’t have time to wait. I think he’s a better player now than he was, and I support giving him another chance to start. Time will tell if he’s as “fragile” as DD and JL seem to think, and if that’s the case, so be it. But their comments seem to leave the door open, anyway.

    Tigercub, thanks for mentioning Hall. I haven’t looked into him yet.

    I’m not sure what it would take to land Hardy. Some deals come to mind, but giving up 3 pitchers (not JV or AG), or worse still, Polanco… I can’t make a case that the Tigers need Hardy that badly.

  62. Chris in Dallas

    November 21, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    I just can’t get past Punto putting up one of the all time worst offensive seasons ever in 2007. .210/.291/.271, 52 OPS+. Granted he was much better in ’08 but still – his OPS+ in the last 4 seasons: 68, 90, 52, 99. It seems he’s only decent in even numbered years. Defensively he’s kind of middling as a SS. Expected outs (on groundballs) – 164. Actual outs (GB) – 163. For comparison’s sake, Renteria was 337/326. Not much of an upgrade with the glove, potentially a big downgrade with the bat.

  63. Chris in Dallas

    November 21, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    I’d send Galarraga, Rodney and any non-Porcello minor leaguer to Milwaukee for Hardy. He’s both excellent (I’m talking top 5 in the league excellent) in the field and no slouch at the plate. 20-25 HR with a plus-plus glove? And he’s young (26)? That’s worth the price if you ask me.

  64. Smoking Loon

    November 21, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    You’re making it tempting (deal for Hardy), Chris. Galarraga, though… gotta say it’s a dealbreaker. Would they take Robertson, Rodney, and Zumaya instead?