On second thought, Armando as a pitched ball anywhere near the plate would be easy to hit, but I’d predict a much lower BABIP for JV and a much shorter career for AG in that case.

In other news, for both Rogers and Verlander (and no one else was beyond dead-even), a HR was twice as likely/unlikely after a ball/strike on the first pitch. This jibes exactly with JV’s career numbers, and to a somewhat lesser degree with Kenny’s.

I want to know what Rogers is throwing on pre 2-2 count pitches, because if his BABIP on 2-2 is .246, and BABIP after 2-2 is .259…well let’s just say his BABIP for the rest of the counts must be a wee bit higher….

The Umpires can EASILY tilt the scales either way on an over/under, so you’d think MLB would try to eliminate different strike zones for different pitchers/players from one night to the next. They can turn a shutout into a shelling just like that, and vice versa.

BABIP on 2-2 count

Rogers .246
Bonderman .250
Galarraga .268
TEAM .301
Verlander .367
Robertson .383

K/PA on 2-2 count

Galarraga 48.6%
TEAM 41.5%
Verlander 40.3%
Bonderman 35.5%
Robertson 33.3%
Rogers 31.5%

BABIP after 2-2 count

Galarraga .247
Rogers .259
TEAM .308
Robertson .316
Verlander .357
Bonderman .379 ?

K per BB after 2-2 count

Galarraga 4.7
Verlander 2.9
TEAM 2.1
Robertson 1.9
Bonderman 1.5
Rogers 1.4

I guess my main question would be: What is Verlander throwing on a 2-2 count? Galarraga?

I understand what you’re saying Bill

I’m wondering if their guys like Baker, Liriano, Blackburn, Slowey and Perkins have more off speed pitches either changeups curveballs and the rest to get guys to “fish”

ONE POINT

Plus it has been an organizational philosophy to go after guys who throw hard, and bring them up right away (Verlander/Bonderman/Miller and possibly Porcello) etc.

The Twins I believe don’t go after so many hard throwers Santana was luck and dominated on his change up and they had Radke and our good ol’ Kenny both of whom weren’t gassers and naturally by necessity relied more on control

ANother point

Plus another thing to muckity muck with all this data are guys like Willis and Rodney. Two muck ups who for the life of them had quite a bit of trouble finding the catcher even. That might skew last year’s data a bit towards the Twins.

And another POINT

While I’m not against guys who hit the zone, two of our best guys who do that (Rogers and Jones) didn’t fare too well this year.

I wonder if 2006 shows this much difference – which in quite a few spots isn’t that much.

We don’t need throwers, we don’t need injuries we need pitchers, hopefully Knapp has a knack combined with knowledge to knowhow to get guys to pitch and do it well. If so knock on wood and say yay!

Me thinks so…

A) Have the batter swing and miss

B) Hit the strike zone (as determined by the day’s home plate umpire)

C) Have the batter hit a foul ball that is not caught (out of a fielders reach)

Therefore if you have certain pitches with tons of movement and control of those and you know the weaknesses and strengths of a hitter you don’t have to hit the strike zone.
A fast fastball is a bonus.

Umpires usually give the pitchers you named Eric the benefit of the doubt, whereas a guy like Nate Robertson might not get the same location called.

Where was the Home Plate UMPIRE on Kazmir last night?

They royally screwed him, he had quite a few beautys – at the knees that were shown after to be strikeouts.

Ended up booting him from the game when he could have kept going, it’s too bad.

And the point is it happens to guys on our staff just like it did to Kaz.

The Twins staff is a staff full of guys who can throw strikes but who don’t really have out pitches. The Tigers have a few guys who have true out pitches (all three of Verlander’s, Bonderman’s slider, Galarraga’s slider, Miner’s change, Zumaya’s fastball, Rodney’s change). Imagine what they could do if they pounded the zone. If the Twins pitchers can get hitters to chase their not-great stuff off the plate because they are always ahead 0-2 or 1-2, then imagine what Verlander could do if he got 0-2 on people and was able to throw closer to the zone than he did this year.

If you look throughout recent history, you’ll find that the best pitchers, and even the best power pitchers, were always strike throwers who could put people away. Clemens, Schilling, Pedro, Smoltz, Mussina, Johan, Doc, and the granddaddy of all strike throwing put away pitchers, Randy Johnson from about age 28 on.