Comments on: links for 2008-10-22

By: Eric Cioe

Eric Cioe — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 23:53:04 +0000

Why use groundball rate? Wouldn’t that skew the results to very much favor groundball pitchers? Lots of fine pitchers have been flyball pitchers.

By: JAY-RC

JAY-RC — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:51:02 +0000

Sad too because Larish has such a great glove at first. Buried behind Cabrera I understand but behind Brandon Cringe… Wow.

By: Smoking Loon

Smoking Loon — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:43:57 +0000

Look at the career platoon splits for Thames and Inge some time. Then tell me why Thames is the guy they’ve got to pull for a rookie. Now I’m tempted to not only leave Thames in LF through the cold and hot streaks, but also have Larish split time with Inge at 3B.

By: JAY-RC

JAY-RC — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:27:49 +0000

Chris
I also agree that JV is definately Above Average hes just not an ace in my book. One certainly doesn’t win ROY, throw a no hitter and win 17 games two years in a row as well. This year proved though like Bondo in 2006 that he (they) are great but can’t handle the “Ace” label.0

By: JAY-RC

JAY-RC — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:23:42 +0000

Mark
I hear ya buddy… Honestly you pegged it correctly they all three were “projects” especially Bautista n Cruceta. I just personaly thought Beltran was a few steps below Bautista. Denny had a great spring and aside from his openning day shelling he was custom. Then he hit a rough patch n he was a gonner. I just thought perhaps we were placing him in a role he wasn’t cut out for (setup role). I saw him as a 6th or 7th inning guy myself.
Oh well he’s not our problem anymore.

Vote James Skelton

By: Smoking Loon

Smoking Loon — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:00:22 +0000

Wow. Verlander has given up 50% of his career HR to the Indians and White Sox… in 26% of the IP. That is, um, striking.

By: Chris in Dallas

Chris in Dallas — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:15:44 +0000

OK I’m going to go back on my word. I’ll throw a quick stat out there. JV’s ERA+ in ’06 and ’07 was 126 and 125, respectively. That’s quite above league average production. Not Johan Santana, but pretty good nonetheless.

By: Chris in Dallas

Chris in Dallas — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:11:17 +0000

Dre: I do think average starters throw no-hitters. Look at the list of guys who have thrown them. Anyhoo, for what it’s worth I think Verlander has ace ‘stuff’, and his performance has resembled and ace like substance a lot of the time. I’m sure if the Tigers put him on the trade market, he’d command a hefty return. So he has real value based on his performance and perceived value in that all 30 teams would want him. My problem with the guy is that he continually gets lit up by Cleveland and Chicago. Being an AL Central pitcher, he might want to figure those teams out at some point. I would back up my claims with statistical examples but I’m lazy at the moment.

By: Dr Dre in Chicago

Dr Dre in Chicago — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:08:50 +0000

“And I used groundballs because those correlate very well from year-to-year among pitchers. They are related to a pitchers “stuff” like K’s or BB’s are.”

Mike, when you say GBs correlate well year to year, do you mean correlate to pitcher success, or just that pitchers tend to maintain similar GB rates?

“I think he’s an average starter.”

I’m gonna disagree, but not vehemently. To explain; I disagree in that I don’t think average pitchers throw no-hitters. I agree because, as you point out, when you look at his season numbers he’s had only one “above average” year.

This may be straight bias on my part, but in his case I think you can argue that sometimes the numbers don’t tell the whole story. Verlander has the tools to be an ace, and when his mind is there, he dominates like the league’s aces. The problem is that he can’t consistently stay in control. So yeah, until he really learns to control himself he’ll be average over the course of a season, while still showing streaks of dominance.

By: ron

ron — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:57:47 +0000

Garbage and trash! Average stuff! How much are they paying that guy? Whose running this show? Get rid of them all (except for GP&C).

By: Mark A.

Mark A. — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:37:22 +0000

I don’t see Cruceta returning in 2009.

Aside from strikeout rate, the performance of Beltran and Cruceta were quite similar at both Toledo and Detroit, so qualifying one and not the other as trash, doesn’t quite make sense to me.

As for Bautista, he had no clue where his stuff was going, was living on borrowed time with that poor control, and the Tigers tried to get something for him as they sent him away….given his shiny numbers in Pittsburgh, I’d say it was no big loss.

All three pitchers were very, very similar….velocity, inconsistent secondary pitches, absolutely zero control of the ball. They were projects, all in the same mold, if one was garbage, all three were garbage.

By: Smoking Loon

Smoking Loon — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:55:24 +0000

“I don’t think he’s a No. 2, I think he’s an average starter.”

Did you read the Royals Review article, Mike? I used the term “#2″ in the context of that article, where #2 is an above-average starter. You think that overrates him?

By: Smoking Loon

Smoking Loon — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:42:55 +0000

Thanks for the clarification on Cruceta, Mark. Do you suppose he figures into the Tigers’ plans for 2009, though? I had been assuming he would.

By: JAY-RC

JAY-RC — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:38:06 +0000

beltran is trash
I said Denny Bautista, we traded him to Pittsburgh, I see what u mean on Cruceta though

By: Mike R

Mike R — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:35:58 +0000

Here is my blog post on Verlander, for those who haven’t read it.

I don’t think he’s a No. 2, I think he’s an average starter.

And I used groundballs because those correlate very well from year-to-year among pitchers. They are related to a pitchers “stuff” like K’s or BB’s are.