Comments on: Let the offseason begin http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:11:17 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Smoking Loon http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108223 Smoking Loon Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:13:57 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108223 Andre, the limits you suggest probably boil things down to this: TRADED: Thames, Raburn LF: Guillen 1B-3B: Hessman Toledo: Larish I really don't like Guillen in LF at all. Unless they trade Maggs, Joyce then becomes a 4th outfielder. Even if he plays fairly often spelling Guillen, Ordonez, and even Sheffield, I really think it's time to start him full-time if Thames is gone. The best arguments I can muster for Hessman starting 2009 on the bench are a) Larish would still be around and getting regular work in Toledo, and b) Larish could be attractive in trade, right now even; Hessman, not so much, unless he showed something over the first half. Unfortunately, the arguments contradict each other. It really depends on whether Larish is truly seen as the heir apparent to Inge at 3B, or possibly to Cabrera at 1B a couple years down the road. If he is, then I should abandon the Hessman nonsense, if that's what it is. Andre, the limits you suggest probably boil things down to this:

TRADED: Thames, Raburn
LF: Guillen
1B-3B: Hessman
Toledo: Larish

I really don’t like Guillen in LF at all. Unless they trade Maggs, Joyce then becomes a 4th outfielder. Even if he plays fairly often spelling Guillen, Ordonez, and even Sheffield, I really think it’s time to start him full-time if Thames is gone.

The best arguments I can muster for Hessman starting 2009 on the bench are a) Larish would still be around and getting regular work in Toledo, and b) Larish could be attractive in trade, right now even; Hessman, not so much, unless he showed something over the first half. Unfortunately, the arguments contradict each other. It really depends on whether Larish is truly seen as the heir apparent to Inge at 3B, or possibly to Cabrera at 1B a couple years down the road. If he is, then I should abandon the Hessman nonsense, if that’s what it is.

]]> By: Smoking Loon http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108222 Smoking Loon Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:56:21 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108222 Yeah, it's an unwieldy post. Kind of a sketch pad. Couldn't figure out how to best lay out the possibilities I saw, but there was surely a better way. Yeah, it’s an unwieldy post. Kind of a sketch pad. Couldn’t figure out how to best lay out the possibilities I saw, but there was surely a better way.

]]> By: Plain old Andre (in Chicago) http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108221 Plain old Andre (in Chicago) Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:46:08 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108221 Loon, your 12:20 post is as difficult to read as some of the ones you've complained about! also, it flies in the face of my preference for thinking as little as possible before saying something. in order to manage this mental work load, i will only look at scenarios not involving a Guillen trade or Sheffield leaving (although i'd rate the latter as being the more likely) and get back to you. Loon, your 12:20 post is as difficult to read as some of the ones you’ve complained about! also, it flies in the face of my preference for thinking as little as possible before saying something.

in order to manage this mental work load, i will only look at scenarios not involving a Guillen trade or Sheffield leaving (although i’d rate the latter as being the more likely) and get back to you.

]]> By: Smoking Loon http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108220 Smoking Loon Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:30:45 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108220 If Gary Sheffield comes through for the Tigers in 2009, I'll acknowledge the 818 (and counting) disparaging remarks I've made, and gladly eat crow. Which is an odd thing for a loon to say. "very interesting, and imo, spot on." Why, thank you, Andre. I'm doubling your salary, effective immediately. Speaking of Whipping Boys, I expect a pretty decent year at the plate from Inge. I reserve the right to deny having said this. I'll have a different name by then, anyway. If Gary Sheffield comes through for the Tigers in 2009, I’ll acknowledge the 818 (and counting) disparaging remarks I’ve made, and gladly eat crow. Which is an odd thing for a loon to say.

“very interesting, and imo, spot on.”

Why, thank you, Andre. I’m doubling your salary, effective immediately.

Speaking of Whipping Boys, I expect a pretty decent year at the plate from Inge. I reserve the right to deny having said this. I’ll have a different name by then, anyway.

]]> By: Smoking Loon http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108219 Smoking Loon Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:20:59 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108219 Andre, I realize that our moves are always subject to nullification by the real life Tigers, but help me evaluate these alternatives. All of them assume a new SS-2B guy. IN THE "SHEFF ISN"T GOING ANYWHERE" WORLD TRADED: Guillen, Raburn LF: Joyce/Thames 1B-3B: Larish TRADED: Thames, Raburn LF: Guillen 1B-3B: Hessman Toledo: Larish TRADED: Guillen, Thames LF: Joyce? Joyce/Raburn? 1B-3B: Larish? Hessman? TRADED: Guillen, Thames, Raburn LF: Joyce 1B-3B: Larish? Hessman? TRADED: Guillen, Thames, Raburn, Larish LF: Joyce 1B-3B: Hessman TRADED: Guillen, Joyce, Raburn LF: Thames 1B-3B: Larish TRADED: Guillen, Thames, Larish LF: Joyce? Joyce/Raburn? 1B-3B: Hessman TRADED: Thames, Raburn, Larish LF: Guillen 1B-3B: Hessman TRADED: Thames, Larish LF: Guillen 1B-3B: Hessman IN THE "SHEFF MAGICALLY LEAVES" WORLD TRADED: Thames, Raburn DH: Guillen LF: Joyce 1B-3B: Larish? Hessman? TRADED: Thames, Raburn DH: Ordonez LF: Guillen RF: Joyce 1B-3B: Larish? Hessman? TRADED: Thames, Larish DH: Guillen LF: Joyce 1B-3B: Hessman TRADED: Thames, Larish DH: Ordonez LF: Guillen RF: Joyce? Joyce/Raburn? 1B-3B: Hessman TRADED: Raburn, Larish DH: Guillen LF: Joyce/Thames 1B-3B: Hessman It's funny, but I thought that sliding these puzzle pieces around would create at least one scenario with Thames at DH or Raburn starting in LF. Not so. It would seem to me that Thames and Raburn almost "have to go." But trading Guillen while keeping Sheffield... a bit hard to stomach. And forgive the Hessman Complex, but with Thames gone, it would be good to have another mistake-hitting bopper around, Ks and all. If if it didn't work, well, hanging onto Larish is probably best. Andre, I realize that our moves are always subject to nullification by the real life Tigers, but help me evaluate these alternatives. All of them assume a new SS-2B guy.

IN THE “SHEFF ISN”T GOING ANYWHERE” WORLD

TRADED: Guillen, Raburn
LF: Joyce/Thames
1B-3B: Larish

TRADED: Thames, Raburn
LF: Guillen
1B-3B: Hessman
Toledo: Larish

TRADED: Guillen, Thames
LF: Joyce? Joyce/Raburn?
1B-3B: Larish? Hessman?

TRADED: Guillen, Thames, Raburn
LF: Joyce
1B-3B: Larish? Hessman?

TRADED: Guillen, Thames, Raburn, Larish
LF: Joyce
1B-3B: Hessman

TRADED: Guillen, Joyce, Raburn
LF: Thames
1B-3B: Larish

TRADED: Guillen, Thames, Larish
LF: Joyce? Joyce/Raburn?
1B-3B: Hessman

TRADED: Thames, Raburn, Larish
LF: Guillen
1B-3B: Hessman

TRADED: Thames, Larish
LF: Guillen
1B-3B: Hessman

IN THE “SHEFF MAGICALLY LEAVES” WORLD

TRADED: Thames, Raburn
DH: Guillen
LF: Joyce
1B-3B: Larish? Hessman?

TRADED: Thames, Raburn
DH: Ordonez
LF: Guillen
RF: Joyce
1B-3B: Larish? Hessman?

TRADED: Thames, Larish
DH: Guillen
LF: Joyce
1B-3B: Hessman

TRADED: Thames, Larish
DH: Ordonez
LF: Guillen
RF: Joyce? Joyce/Raburn?
1B-3B: Hessman

TRADED: Raburn, Larish
DH: Guillen
LF: Joyce/Thames
1B-3B: Hessman

It’s funny, but I thought that sliding these puzzle pieces around would create at least one scenario with Thames at DH or Raburn starting in LF. Not so. It would seem to me that Thames and Raburn almost “have to go.” But trading Guillen while keeping Sheffield… a bit hard to stomach.

And forgive the Hessman Complex, but with Thames gone, it would be good to have another mistake-hitting bopper around, Ks and all. If if it didn’t work, well, hanging onto Larish is probably best.

]]> By: Plain old Andre (in Chicago) http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108218 Plain old Andre (in Chicago) Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:39:13 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108218 Loon, very interesting, and imo, spot on. although i am hoping for some serious Whipping Boy production. if Sheffield is healthy (i don't know if there's an asterisk big enough...) than i would like to see 40 HR and 140 RBI outta the two of them. please. thank you. ooooo and 20 SB from Sheff, for the team lead. jk. about the lead. Loon,

very interesting, and imo, spot on. although i am hoping for some serious Whipping Boy production. if Sheffield is healthy (i don’t know if there’s an asterisk big enough…) than i would like to see 40 HR and 140 RBI outta the two of them. please. thank you. ooooo and 20 SB from Sheff, for the team lead. jk. about the lead.

]]> By: Plain old Andre (in Chicago) http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108217 Plain old Andre (in Chicago) Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:30:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108217 speaking of "leadershipping": http://www.nypost.com/seven/11042008/sports/yankees/worst_fielder_in_majors_136772.htm also, "wins are a result of Pitching Defense and Timely Hitting"...where's FJM when you need them? speaking of “leadershipping”:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11.....136772.htm

also, “wins are a result of Pitching Defense and Timely Hitting”…where’s FJM when you need them?

]]> By: Smoking Loon http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108216 Smoking Loon Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:28:19 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108216 I'm not taking anyone to task here or arguing a point. Just thinking out loud. Thinking about whether Magglio is going to get better made me think about what that means for him and a number of other players as well. Who's going to get better and how do you know? Does everyone need to get better? Is it always time to let someone go when they're not going to get better? Better than what - what is the benchmark? Discuss. OK, I'll discuss. A little. Ordonez doesn't need to get better. It would be tough to top 2007. Gradual decline over the next 3 years... acceptable, considering his current level. Can Verlander get better than 2006-2007? I don't think so. He might have a better season or two ahead, but I think he's about that good and no better (no complaints). Who do we not just hope but expect to get better, as in better than ever? My guesses: Granderson. Cabrera. Joyce. Ryan. Larish. Raburn. Dolsi. Rapada. Thomas? (? because of injury.) I don't know if Robertson is even still around, but I don't expect either he or Bonderman to be better than ever. As good as 2006 would be quite acceptable. As for everyone else, well, anyone can have a better season than the last. Is there anyone we expect to be worse? Worse as in damagingly bad, that is. I can't think of anyone. Sheffield, maybe. Zumaya, if they keep him in the bullpen, maybe. I expect Rodney to be, maybe not worse, but not better enough. Who "can't possibly" be better than ever in 2009? Candidates include Ordonez, Guillen, Polanco, Sheffield, Thames, and Inge. My, that's quite a few. I’m not taking anyone to task here or arguing a point. Just thinking out loud.

Thinking about whether Magglio is going to get better made me think about what that means for him and a number of other players as well. Who’s going to get better and how do you know? Does everyone need to get better? Is it always time to let someone go when they’re not going to get better? Better than what – what is the benchmark?

Discuss.

OK, I’ll discuss. A little. Ordonez doesn’t need to get better. It would be tough to top 2007. Gradual decline over the next 3 years… acceptable, considering his current level. Can Verlander get better than 2006-2007? I don’t think so. He might have a better season or two ahead, but I think he’s about that good and no better (no complaints).

Who do we not just hope but expect to get better, as in better than ever? My guesses: Granderson. Cabrera. Joyce. Ryan. Larish. Raburn. Dolsi. Rapada. Thomas? (? because of injury.) I don’t know if Robertson is even still around, but I don’t expect either he or Bonderman to be better than ever. As good as 2006 would be quite acceptable.

As for everyone else, well, anyone can have a better season than the last.

Is there anyone we expect to be worse? Worse as in damagingly bad, that is. I can’t think of anyone. Sheffield, maybe. Zumaya, if they keep him in the bullpen, maybe. I expect Rodney to be, maybe not worse, but not better enough.

Who “can’t possibly” be better than ever in 2009? Candidates include Ordonez, Guillen, Polanco, Sheffield, Thames, and Inge. My, that’s quite a few.

]]> By: Dr Dre in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108214 Dr Dre in Chicago Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:52:53 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108214 David, thanks for correcting the terminology i used describing Soriano's history, however i think the overall point still stands. i took me 10min of drunken searching last night to compile that list (lacking as it may have been), a more in depth look might bear out quite a few more players. "The rest of the guys Jones, Rogers, Damon, Rentaria etc. I do not consider to be superstars" well, maybe, but between all the gold-gloves an salary that group commands, i didn't think it was too big a stretch to include them. "As far as Maggs losing him might be bad, but if you could get a bunch of studs for the future, free up payroll and bring in an established good offensive player(like Ibanez) I don’t think it would be so bad" this may now be moot after DD's comments, but even if it weren't i don't think there's a scenario where a team gives up a ton of prospects / quality players for Maggs. he's too old, the FA market is too good this year and they know the Tigers would be moving him mainly to save $$$. i don't think the Tigers would get value for him and i don't think they're ready to lose a star like Maggs going into a season where they might have issues filling the stands. David,

thanks for correcting the terminology i used describing Soriano’s history, however i think the overall point still stands. i took me 10min of drunken searching last night to compile that list (lacking as it may have been), a more in depth look might bear out quite a few more players.

“The rest of the guys Jones, Rogers, Damon, Rentaria etc. I do not consider to be superstars”

well, maybe, but between all the gold-gloves an salary that group commands, i didn’t think it was too big a stretch to include them.

“As far as Maggs

losing him might be bad, but if you could get a bunch of studs for the future, free up payroll and bring in an established good offensive player(like Ibanez) I don’t think it would be so bad”

this may now be moot after DD’s comments, but even if it weren’t i don’t think there’s a scenario where a team gives up a ton of prospects / quality players for Maggs. he’s too old, the FA market is too good this year and they know the Tigers would be moving him mainly to save $$$. i don’t think the Tigers would get value for him and i don’t think they’re ready to lose a star like Maggs going into a season where they might have issues filling the stands.

]]> By: David http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108209 David Tue, 04 Nov 2008 06:22:38 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108209 plus everybody knows the team with the best batting average and most saves always wins right? its all about the stats Go STATS! =P plus everybody knows the team with the best batting average and most saves always wins right?

its all about the stats

Go STATS! =P

]]> By: David http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108208 David Tue, 04 Nov 2008 06:20:42 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108208 Clemens has played on 4 teams and is done, Schilling 5 teams Maddux has been on 5 teams and two for the bulk of his career The Big Hurt has been on one team for his career and at the end he bounces around as a free agent, it is very different than going from team to team Pudge again 4 teams Soriano has also played on 4 teams not moved 4 times Yanks to Texas =1move Texas to Washington = 1move Washington to Chicago =1move total 3 moves not 4 Schilling stuck with the Phils for 9 seasons Clemens was on the Red Sox for 13 seasons Maddux was on the Cubs for 10 and the Braves for 11 seasons Pudge was on the Rangers for 12 seasons and Thomas was on the Chi Sox for 16 seasons The rest of the guys Jones, Rogers, Damon, Rentaria etc. I do not consider to be superstars Sheffield hasn't stuck with any team longer than 4 As far as Maggs losing him might be bad, but if you could get a bunch of studs for the future, free up payroll and bring in an established good offensive player(like Ibanez) I don't think it would be so bad plus winning games is the ultimate drawing card, and in order to win you need teh guys who can throw teh ball good Clemens has played on 4 teams and is done, Schilling 5 teams

Maddux has been on 5 teams and two for the bulk of his career

The Big Hurt has been on one team for his career and at the end he bounces around as a free agent, it is very different than going from team to team

Pudge again 4 teams

Soriano has also played on 4 teams not moved 4 times

Yanks to Texas =1move
Texas to Washington = 1move
Washington to Chicago =1move
total 3 moves not 4

Schilling stuck with the Phils for 9 seasons
Clemens was on the Red Sox for 13 seasons
Maddux was on the Cubs for 10 and the Braves for 11 seasons
Pudge was on the Rangers for 12 seasons
and Thomas was on the Chi Sox for 16 seasons

The rest of the guys Jones, Rogers, Damon, Rentaria etc. I do not consider to be superstars

Sheffield hasn’t stuck with any team longer than 4

As far as Maggs

losing him might be bad, but if you could get a bunch of studs for the future, free up payroll and bring in an established good offensive player(like Ibanez) I don’t think it would be so bad

plus winning games is the ultimate drawing card, and in order to win you need teh guys who can throw teh ball good

]]> By: Dr Dre in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108206 Dr Dre in Chicago Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:34:57 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108206 David, there's a non-statistic based reason i hope they don't trade Maggs (which is in addition to my belief there's plenty of hard/market reasons he won't be moved). i think having Maggs in Detroit is not only a fan draw, but he's a prestige/player drawing figure too. i'm afraid that (whether or not the numbers would bear it out in a 'vacuum') losing Maggs would be a symbolic loss. David,

there’s a non-statistic based reason i hope they don’t trade Maggs (which is in addition to my belief there’s plenty of hard/market reasons he won’t be moved). i think having Maggs in Detroit is not only a fan draw, but he’s a prestige/player drawing figure too. i’m afraid that (whether or not the numbers would bear it out in a ‘vacuum’) losing Maggs would be a symbolic loss.

]]> By: Dr Dre in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108205 Dr Dre in Chicago Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:30:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108205 "how many “supposed superstars” play for 7 FREEKIN DIFFERENT TEAMS" allow me to point out a lack of direct correlation between "superstar" and # of teams played for. Schilling - moved 4 times Clemens - moved 5 times Pudge - moved 4 times Damon - moved 4 times Todd Jones - moved 9 times Kenny Rogers - moved 8 times Renteria - moved 5 times Soriano - moved 4 times Maddux - moved 7 times Frank Thomas - moved 5 times Lofton - moved 13 effing times besides any of this, as somebody has already pointed out, Sheffield hasn't been bouncing around the league one-year-contracts at a time, teams had been giving up value for him. that doesn't mean he's not washed up now, just means that the amount of teams played for doesn't = worth, one way of the other. “how many “supposed superstars” play for 7 FREEKIN DIFFERENT TEAMS”

allow me to point out a lack of direct correlation between “superstar” and # of teams played for.

Schilling – moved 4 times
Clemens – moved 5 times
Pudge – moved 4 times
Damon – moved 4 times
Todd Jones – moved 9 times
Kenny Rogers – moved 8 times
Renteria – moved 5 times
Soriano – moved 4 times
Maddux – moved 7 times
Frank Thomas – moved 5 times

Lofton – moved 13 effing times

besides any of this, as somebody has already pointed out, Sheffield hasn’t been bouncing around the league one-year-contracts at a time, teams had been giving up value for him. that doesn’t mean he’s not washed up now, just means that the amount of teams played for doesn’t = worth, one way of the other.

]]> By: David http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108203 David Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:20:19 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108203 Smoking Loon Good to know, I agree, a lot of it is how he has played I'm not against getting guys who were/are controversial heck Cobb and Crawford weren't the best of friends when they played, neither were Tinkers Evers and Chance, neither were Gehrig and Ruth But guys like Sheffield take it to a whole new level As far as Maggs go, I agree with you wholeheartedly and you kind of brought up my point. It's not that it couldn't be a good move. I most likely wouldn't do it, but you can't rule anything off the table IMO. Some GMs aren't the brightest and might offer you a deal you cant refuse. I hope they keep him. And yes an Ibanez signing and how much of the Maggs contract the other team would eat would factor into the overall cost. I hope it isn't on the table, for DD. If someone comes to him with a fantastic offer of quite a few "can't-miss" prospects who can mash or have got quite the skills in pitching that would be the only time I hope they consider it. Glad to know we are finally on the same page. Smoking Loon

Good to know, I agree, a lot of it is how he has played

I’m not against getting guys who were/are controversial heck Cobb and Crawford weren’t the best of friends when they played, neither were Tinkers Evers and Chance, neither were Gehrig and Ruth

But guys like Sheffield take it to a whole new level

As far as Maggs go, I agree with you wholeheartedly and you kind of brought up my point. It’s not that it couldn’t be a good move. I most likely wouldn’t do it, but you can’t rule anything off the table IMO. Some GMs aren’t the brightest and might offer you a deal you cant refuse. I hope they keep him. And yes an Ibanez signing and how much of the Maggs contract the other team would eat would factor into the overall cost.

I hope it isn’t on the table, for DD. If someone comes to him with a fantastic offer of quite a few “can’t-miss” prospects who can mash or have got quite the skills in pitching that would be the only time I hope they consider it.

Glad to know we are finally on the same page.

]]> By: Smoking Loon http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108201 Smoking Loon Tue, 04 Nov 2008 04:50:07 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/let-the-offseason-begin/#comment-108201 David, we certainly agree on the "wish Sheff would go away" part, though it's not a personality thing for me. I just don't feel like waiting till June for him to heat up and then beginning the Countdown To Injury. It's not that trading Magglio <i>couldn't</i> be a good move. I'm just too afraid it wouldn't be, and barring a very specific suggestion/trade rumor, don't see so far that it would be. The cost of adding someone like Ibanez to replace his production would have to be factored into the overall cost of the trade that sent Maggs away, after all. For all the rumors, if I had to guess, and I do, I'd say moving Ordonez is not even on the table for DD and the Tigers brain trust.. David, we certainly agree on the “wish Sheff would go away” part, though it’s not a personality thing for me. I just don’t feel like waiting till June for him to heat up and then beginning the Countdown To Injury.

It’s not that trading Magglio couldn’t be a good move. I’m just too afraid it wouldn’t be, and barring a very specific suggestion/trade rumor, don’t see so far that it would be. The cost of adding someone like Ibanez to replace his production would have to be factored into the overall cost of the trade that sent Maggs away, after all.

For all the rumors, if I had to guess, and I do, I’d say moving Ordonez is not even on the table for DD and the Tigers brain trust..

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