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	<title>Comments on: Daily Linking &#8211;  10/22/08</title>
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	<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/</link>
	<description>News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball</description>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108073</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108073</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t think CyclOPS works, as funny as it is.&quot;

Chris, with CyclOPS I was thinking of guys who become a liability without a bat in their hands. Cabrera (Gil), Dunn, that sort of thing. One-dimensional in terms of potent offense and nothing else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t think CyclOPS works, as funny as it is.&#8221;</p>
<p>Chris, with CyclOPS I was thinking of guys who become a liability without a bat in their hands. Cabrera (Gil), Dunn, that sort of thing. One-dimensional in terms of potent offense and nothing else.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108064</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108064</guid>
		<description>Chris, maybe I&#039;m wrong about Z vs. Oswalt. But I thought the difference in career K/BB alone put Oswalt on a higher plane. I think Andre really has something with the Acechilles thing, and that&#039;s what could be said to keep Zambrano second-tier as far as aces go. Also. 11+/- ERA+ over 6-8 year careers is pretty big. Earth-shattering, maybe not, but perhaps the difference between &quot;Really good&quot; and &quot;Wow!&quot;

Coleman, pedantic is good when I learn something, and I did. Also, it took 10 minutes, but I finally got the Afrodite joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, maybe I&#8217;m wrong about Z vs. Oswalt. But I thought the difference in career K/BB alone put Oswalt on a higher plane. I think Andre really has something with the Acechilles thing, and that&#8217;s what could be said to keep Zambrano second-tier as far as aces go. Also. 11+/- ERA+ over 6-8 year careers is pretty big. Earth-shattering, maybe not, but perhaps the difference between &#8220;Really good&#8221; and &#8220;Wow!&#8221;</p>
<p>Coleman, pedantic is good when I learn something, and I did. Also, it took 10 minutes, but I finally got the Afrodite joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108060</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108060</guid>
		<description>Loon:  I think Z and Oswalt are close enough.  Oswalt&#039;s better, but not like Earth-shatteringly better.  139 career ERA+ vs. 128.  I&#039;m surprised I didn&#039;t get feedback on King Felix.  Statistcally there are better guys.  And then you watch him pitch.  When he&#039;s &#039;on&#039;, I don&#039;t know how anyone ever gets a hit off of him.  Oh my goodness, I think I just sounded like Murray Chass.  I&#039;m going to take my VORP pills now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loon:  I think Z and Oswalt are close enough.  Oswalt&#8217;s better, but not like Earth-shatteringly better.  139 career ERA+ vs. 128.  I&#8217;m surprised I didn&#8217;t get feedback on King Felix.  Statistcally there are better guys.  And then you watch him pitch.  When he&#8217;s &#8216;on&#8217;, I don&#8217;t know how anyone ever gets a hit off of him.  Oh my goodness, I think I just sounded like Murray Chass.  I&#8217;m going to take my VORP pills now.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108059</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108059</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think CyclOPS works, as funny as it is.  An OPS monster would by it&#039;s very nature be well rounded.  You know - hitting, on base, slugging and whatnot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think CyclOPS works, as funny as it is.  An OPS monster would by it&#8217;s very nature be well rounded.  You know &#8211; hitting, on base, slugging and whatnot.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108058</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108058</guid>
		<description>Cool.  I didn&#039;t know the guy from Outkast was a Tigers fan.  Welcome Andre. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool.  I didn&#8217;t know the guy from Outkast was a Tigers fan.  Welcome Andre. <img src='http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108057</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108057</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m slow today, time for some of that coffee stuff.  How did I miss the famous god of Tiger infielders, Erros?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m slow today, time for some of that coffee stuff.  How did I miss the famous god of Tiger infielders, Erros?</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108056</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108056</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be pet-antic and point out that Achilleus and Cyclops are Epic and not Mythological characters, because by Zooss these things matter.

(I was going to mention Afrodite, but she retired with Oscar Gamble).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll be pet-antic and point out that Achilleus and Cyclops are Epic and not Mythological characters, because by Zooss these things matter.</p>
<p>(I was going to mention Afrodite, but she retired with Oscar Gamble).</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108055</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108055</guid>
		<description>OK how about Zooss:  The all-powerful GM who puts together an impressive menagerie of various animals, which people pay to come stare at, but tend to not do much more than howl and snort and mope about their cages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK how about Zooss:  The all-powerful GM who puts together an impressive menagerie of various animals, which people pay to come stare at, but tend to not do much more than howl and snort and mope about their cages.</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108054</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108054</guid>
		<description>I think Rodney has to be considered as an Acechilles then, even though not a starter, since he has come the closest to slaying hitters achilles-like</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Rodney has to be considered as an Acechilles then, even though not a starter, since he has come the closest to slaying hitters achilles-like</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108053</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108053</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Acechilles is great, Andre. Apt, to say the least.

You&#039;ve started something here, I think. I&#039;m already trying to come up with other mythological examples. Hmmmm. 

Atless = Guy who&#039;s supposed to carry the team on his shoulders but doesn&#039;t. (Atless Shrugged?)

Apallo = Highly touted veteran who tanks miserably.

CyclOPS = One-dimensional OPS monster.

I&#039;ll hand this off to Coleman now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Acechilles is great, Andre. Apt, to say the least.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve started something here, I think. I&#8217;m already trying to come up with other mythological examples. Hmmmm. </p>
<p>Atless = Guy who&#8217;s supposed to carry the team on his shoulders but doesn&#8217;t. (Atless Shrugged?)</p>
<p>Apallo = Highly touted veteran who tanks miserably.</p>
<p>CyclOPS = One-dimensional OPS monster.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll hand this off to Coleman now.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108052</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108052</guid>
		<description>Dre 4k,

&quot;acechilles&quot;, haha, that&#039;s rich.  good stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dre 4k,</p>
<p>&#8220;acechilles&#8221;, haha, that&#8217;s rich.  good stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Andre 4000 (in Chicago)</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108051</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre 4000 (in Chicago)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108051</guid>
		<description>Loon,

maybe we should create a new category that broadcasters can drone on about. i&#039;d like to coin the term &quot;acechilles&quot;; to describe aces that have the &quot;stuff&quot;, but have one glaring weakness that prevents consistent greatness. noted sufferers of &quot;acechilles&quot; include: Zambrano (voice in head), Verlander (&quot;i don&#039;t get it, i had good stuff&quot;), Bonderman (1st inning), CC Sabathia (AL version), Buehrle (away games).

also, i don&#039;t know what happened to Zambrano this year, following in your footsteps i checked out his game log this year, with the exception of the no-hitter (sounds weird to use that as an exception), his Aug and Sep ERA ballooned and were each over seven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loon,</p>
<p>maybe we should create a new category that broadcasters can drone on about. i&#8217;d like to coin the term &#8220;acechilles&#8221;; to describe aces that have the &#8220;stuff&#8221;, but have one glaring weakness that prevents consistent greatness. noted sufferers of &#8220;acechilles&#8221; include: Zambrano (voice in head), Verlander (&#8220;i don&#8217;t get it, i had good stuff&#8221;), Bonderman (1st inning), CC Sabathia (AL version), Buehrle (away games).</p>
<p>also, i don&#8217;t know what happened to Zambrano this year, following in your footsteps i checked out his game log this year, with the exception of the no-hitter (sounds weird to use that as an exception), his Aug and Sep ERA ballooned and were each over seven.</p>
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		<title>By: Andre 4000 (in Chicago)</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108050</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre 4000 (in Chicago)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108050</guid>
		<description>Mark,

i can&#039;t believe i forgot to include that aspect, especially after that 4 error loss to the Dodgers that saw the Cubs give up 4 unearned runs (btw, when a guy that scores the unearned run comes to the dugout, does the manager berate him saying, &quot;you didn&#039;t &#039;earn&#039; it&quot;?). 

and yes, that sentence ended with 4 punctuations, keeping up my theme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>i can&#8217;t believe i forgot to include that aspect, especially after that 4 error loss to the Dodgers that saw the Cubs give up 4 unearned runs (btw, when a guy that scores the unearned run comes to the dugout, does the manager berate him saying, &#8220;you didn&#8217;t &#8216;earn&#8217; it&#8221;?). </p>
<p>and yes, that sentence ended with 4 punctuations, keeping up my theme.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108049</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108049</guid>
		<description>Dre,

As a frequent viewer of a Big Z meltdown, I can say that you pretty much nailed the description with one glaring omission (in my mind, anyway).  What tends to put him over the edge is something he can&#039;t control: an error, a bloop hit, a double play not turned, a passed ball, etc.  To watch him burn a hole into Ryan Theriot&#039;s head or Soriano&#039;s chest with his glare is truly amusing.  Followed by the requisite yelling at the offending player, and then a bases-clearing double up the gap.

I&#039;ve seen that movie before, and it&#039;s a laugh riot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dre,</p>
<p>As a frequent viewer of a Big Z meltdown, I can say that you pretty much nailed the description with one glaring omission (in my mind, anyway).  What tends to put him over the edge is something he can&#8217;t control: an error, a bloop hit, a double play not turned, a passed ball, etc.  To watch him burn a hole into Ryan Theriot&#8217;s head or Soriano&#8217;s chest with his glare is truly amusing.  Followed by the requisite yelling at the offending player, and then a bases-clearing double up the gap.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen that movie before, and it&#8217;s a laugh riot.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoking Loon</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/10/daily-linking-102208/#comment-108048</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoking Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3450#comment-108048</guid>
		<description>I was looking at Zambrano&#039;s 2008 game logs to see how he did against any of Chris&#039;s aces. As far as I could see, he didn&#039;t go up against any in 2008.

A casual persual of Zambrano&#039;s numbers and Roy Oswalt&#039;s numbers makes me wonder: How is Carlos Zambrano even in the same class as Roy Oswalt? It must be all intuitive, because the stats don&#039;t bear out such a comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was looking at Zambrano&#8217;s 2008 game logs to see how he did against any of Chris&#8217;s aces. As far as I could see, he didn&#8217;t go up against any in 2008.</p>
<p>A casual persual of Zambrano&#8217;s numbers and Roy Oswalt&#8217;s numbers makes me wonder: How is Carlos Zambrano even in the same class as Roy Oswalt? It must be all intuitive, because the stats don&#8217;t bear out such a comparison.</p>
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