Comments on: Game 151: Tigers at Rangers http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:06:02 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Lee Panas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106388 Lee Panas Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:05:19 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106388 I think Ted Williams was probably right about Rizzutto being a vital cog to some World Championships. Not because he was a tough hustling clutch competitor with awesome intangibles but because he was an outstanding fielder at a key defensive position. There were some tight pennant races in those years and a strong case can be made that they would not have won as many championships with an average or below average defensive shortstop I think Ted Williams was probably right about Rizzutto being a vital cog to some World Championships. Not because he was a tough hustling clutch competitor with awesome intangibles but because he was an outstanding fielder at a key defensive position. There were some tight pennant races in those years and a strong case can be made that they would not have won as many championships with an average or below average defensive shortstop

]]> By: ron http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106386 ron Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:40:49 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106386 This is a troll. The dirtbags shall inherit the earth. This is a troll. The dirtbags shall inherit the earth.

]]> By: ron http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106385 ron Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:31:52 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106385 Nothing wrong with a pd being a db. They're the best. The stat guys will always win the argument. But thank God for people like Greg. And that is all I have to say on that. And I'm not trolling. Ted Williams was a troller. Nothing wrong with a pd being a db. They’re the best. The stat guys will always win the argument. But thank God for people like Greg. And that is all I have to say on that. And I’m not trolling. Ted Williams was a troller.

]]> By: greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106377 greg Sat, 20 Sep 2008 07:09:37 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106377 Yes Billfer, but he's clutch! :-) Yes Billfer, but he’s clutch!

:-)

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106356 billfer Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:17:21 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106356 Rodriguez and Jeter both hit for average and get on base, but Rodriguez laps Jeter when it comes to power. He's also the superior fielder which really calls into question Jeter's leadership. He's such the leader that he selfishly refuses to move off of shortstop so the better player can play there. Instead he continues to undermine the pitching staff with his sub-Renteria range. But yeah, Jeter is one of those dirtbags who date super models and appear in GQ and make $20 million a season. No prima donna in him at all. Rodriguez and Jeter both hit for average and get on base, but Rodriguez laps Jeter when it comes to power. He’s also the superior fielder which really calls into question Jeter’s leadership.

He’s such the leader that he selfishly refuses to move off of shortstop so the better player can play there. Instead he continues to undermine the pitching staff with his sub-Renteria range.

But yeah, Jeter is one of those dirtbags who date super models and appear in GQ and make $20 million a season. No prima donna in him at all.

]]> By: Dave BW http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106338 Dave BW Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:24:43 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106338 greg: yeah, I'm working on my master's at the moment. Good times! greg: yeah, I’m working on my master’s at the moment. Good times!

]]> By: Mark in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106337 Mark in Chicago Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:42:13 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106337 the guys at firejoemorgan do a terrific job of deconstructing and ridiculing the nonsense that sports journalists typically churn out. I am no columnist, and I'm sure it's hard to keep coming up with ideas 3-4 times a week, but that doesn't excuse the absolutely preposterous arguments, ideas, and "analysis" that appear on a daily basis. In my opinion, the guys at FJM are true American heroes and deserve a Nobel Prize in addition to the Pulitzer. (yeah greg, they scare me too....) the guys at firejoemorgan do a terrific job of deconstructing and ridiculing the nonsense that sports journalists typically churn out. I am no columnist, and I’m sure it’s hard to keep coming up with ideas 3-4 times a week, but that doesn’t excuse the absolutely preposterous arguments, ideas, and “analysis” that appear on a daily basis.

In my opinion, the guys at FJM are true American heroes and deserve a Nobel Prize in addition to the Pulitzer.

(yeah greg, they scare me too….)

]]> By: greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106335 greg Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:16:58 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106335 firejoemorgan - I totally agree. Of course, he's more of a blogger than a journalist. That guy.....actually, I hesitate to say anything negative about him because that guy scares me. firejoemorgan – I totally agree. Of course, he’s more of a blogger than a journalist. That guy…..actually, I hesitate to say anything negative about him because that guy scares me.

]]> By: greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106334 greg Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:53:45 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106334 Dave - another history major eh? In my opinion, all else being equal, 1st hand info is better than second hand info, third hand info, etc. Certainly not gospel, but better than any other alternative. Obviously, on a case by case basis you'd have to consider personal bias of the account, but you have to do that with EVERY account and I've found the biases often get MUCH worse the further you get from the source. A council, large group isn't necessarily any better because they all have their agendas/issues. Not to mention groupthink brainwashing etc. I have a degree in history and for the most part, that's what my colegues and professors all preached(not necessarily practiced). 1st source is most reliable(all else being equal) Any and all problems you mentioned only get worse the further from the source you get. The same biases and memory issues only get worse the further away you get. I never came across anyone with a such a.....unique take on such things. Dave – another history major eh? In my opinion, all else being equal, 1st hand info is better than second hand info, third hand info, etc. Certainly not gospel, but better than any other alternative. Obviously, on a case by case basis you’d have to consider personal bias of the account, but you have to do that with EVERY account and I’ve found the biases often get MUCH worse the further you get from the source. A council, large group isn’t necessarily any better because they all have their agendas/issues. Not to mention groupthink brainwashing etc. I have a degree in history and for the most part, that’s what my colegues and professors all preached(not necessarily practiced). 1st source is most reliable(all else being equal) Any and all problems you mentioned only get worse the further from the source you get. The same biases and memory issues only get worse the further away you get.

I never came across anyone with a such a…..unique take on such things.

]]> By: Dave BW http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106333 Dave BW Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:32:52 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106333 For the record, greg, it's entirely possible I'm attributing beliefs to you that you don't even possess at this point. I've just read SO much atrocious sports journalism on this topic that it's kind of hard to even discriminate as to who said what anymore -- check out firejoemorgan.com for endless examples of what I'm talking about. For the record, greg, it’s entirely possible I’m attributing beliefs to you that you don’t even possess at this point. I’ve just read SO much atrocious sports journalism on this topic that it’s kind of hard to even discriminate as to who said what anymore — check out firejoemorgan.com for endless examples of what I’m talking about.

]]> By: Coleman http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106332 Coleman Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:29:50 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106332 Smoking Loon: "And Coleman is a bust." Better the bust than the derriere, Puff Loony. Dr Dre: "Except of course for their “Best of Whitey” segments." Maybe if they had one of those in basketball we'd finally get to see the Darko highlights we deserve! Smoking Loon: “And Coleman is a bust.”
Better the bust than the derriere, Puff Loony.

Dr Dre: “Except of course for their “Best of Whitey” segments.”
Maybe if they had one of those in basketball we’d finally get to see the Darko highlights we deserve!

]]> By: Dave BW http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106331 Dave BW Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:22:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106331 greg: first hand accounts are notoriously unreliable in law-enforcement, most famously. In my own field of history, any undergraduate could tell you how foolish it is to rely on a single primary source. People simply have their memories corrupted by other factors in order for eyewitness account to be taken as gospel. Reliable accounts of events are best assembled through a compilation of sources, and/or audio/video/forensic evidence. This certainly is off-topic, but no more so than pulling numbers (ten to 100 times!) half-hazardly out of the sky as you did. So: "Are you saying that someone who never saw Ted Williams play and just went over stats is aware of more events in and around the Red Sox than Ted Williams and his teammates?" If those events concerned the manner in which a baseball game progressed and how each player performed in the course of it, then yes, that is what I'm saying. Listen to Joe Morgan try to explain what happened in a game thirty years ago off the top of his head sometime -- he routinely screws up dates, players, teams, and even years. greg: first hand accounts are notoriously unreliable in law-enforcement, most famously. In my own field of history, any undergraduate could tell you how foolish it is to rely on a single primary source. People simply have their memories corrupted by other factors in order for eyewitness account to be taken as gospel. Reliable accounts of events are best assembled through a compilation of sources, and/or audio/video/forensic evidence. This certainly is off-topic, but no more so than pulling numbers (ten to 100 times!) half-hazardly out of the sky as you did.

So:

“Are you saying that someone who never saw Ted Williams play and just went over stats is aware of more events in and around the Red Sox than Ted Williams and his teammates?”

If those events concerned the manner in which a baseball game progressed and how each player performed in the course of it, then yes, that is what I’m saying. Listen to Joe Morgan try to explain what happened in a game thirty years ago off the top of his head sometime — he routinely screws up dates, players, teams, and even years.

]]> By: greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106330 greg Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:20:13 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106330 btw, sorry for the rant. Too verbose. Go Tigers! Let's just fill the roster with dirtbags with high OBP and OPS. Kudos to Dr. Dre for the humor. btw, sorry for the rant. Too verbose.

Go Tigers! Let’s just fill the roster with dirtbags with high OBP and OPS.

Kudos to Dr. Dre for the humor.

]]> By: Dr Dre in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106329 Dr Dre in Chicago Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:02:00 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106329 "So if you wanted to get an account of what happened during a live event, you wouldn’t ask someone who was there and observed first hand?" Not necessarily, I'm pretty tanked at most baseball games :) “So if you wanted to get an account of what happened during a live event, you wouldn’t ask someone who was there and observed first hand?”

Not necessarily, I’m pretty tanked at most baseball games :)

]]> By: Dr Dre in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106328 Dr Dre in Chicago Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:58:56 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/09/game-151-tigers-at-rangers/#comment-106328 Watching any "webgems" segment often yields a fairly diverse "racial" compilation of players hustling. Except of course for their "Best of Whitey" segments. Also, its a little known fact that Rizutto's quick thinking and application of the Heimlich maneuver on Ted Williams during a team dinner was to thank for all those Yankee's championships. It is thus Williams life-debt to Rizutto that explains his praise of an otherwise forgettable player. Watching any “webgems” segment often yields a fairly diverse “racial” compilation of players hustling. Except of course for their “Best of Whitey” segments.

Also, its a little known fact that Rizutto’s quick thinking and application of the Heimlich maneuver on Ted Williams during a team dinner was to thank for all those Yankee’s championships. It is thus Williams life-debt to Rizutto that explains his praise of an otherwise forgettable player.

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