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	<title>Comments on: The 7th Inning 2008</title>
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	<description>News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball</description>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104311</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104311</guid>
		<description>I hate to beat a dead horse, but this is how I see it:

1) Starting pitching - What to say?  Terrible, regressive, etc.
2) Pitching coaching - Starters were not ready to pitch coming out of spring, pitchers did not fix glaring issues during the season such as walks and refusal to pitch inside.
3) Managing - Pitching changes - Look at prior 120 or so game comments.  JV goes 130, Bondo goes 83, various struggling relievers left in until game is out of reach.
4) Managing - Lineup choices - Sheff?  Really?  Still?  Thames permanent starting LF?  Then benched?  Guys need days off, but your lineup has to be as good as it can be.  Don&#039;t blame Sheff for sucking, blame the guy that allows it.
5) GM - Distant fifth.  Not so much the trades, which were understandable, but the contract to Dontrelle and knowing that they were going back to Kenny and Todd one too many times and doing it anyway.  But Galarraga was a coup, and the trade for Cabrera will be remembered fondly for a long time.

I think the offense has been fine.  Hard to remember, but three runs is supposed to win games sometimes.  I think the defense, first three weeks excepted, has been slightly better than expected.  In my book, Grandy, Maggs, Miggy and Polly are all above average (although only Curtis is much above), and nobody has really been glaringly bad.  The bullpen has
been awful, but the number of chances give to Zumaya while Rapada sits in Toledo is telling.  Also the number of chances given to a guy like Fossum while there are journeyman FAs everywhere who would gladly give you a 4.60 ERA for league minimum salary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to beat a dead horse, but this is how I see it:</p>
<p>1) Starting pitching &#8211; What to say?  Terrible, regressive, etc.<br />
2) Pitching coaching &#8211; Starters were not ready to pitch coming out of spring, pitchers did not fix glaring issues during the season such as walks and refusal to pitch inside.<br />
3) Managing &#8211; Pitching changes &#8211; Look at prior 120 or so game comments.  JV goes 130, Bondo goes 83, various struggling relievers left in until game is out of reach.<br />
4) Managing &#8211; Lineup choices &#8211; Sheff?  Really?  Still?  Thames permanent starting LF?  Then benched?  Guys need days off, but your lineup has to be as good as it can be.  Don&#8217;t blame Sheff for sucking, blame the guy that allows it.<br />
5) GM &#8211; Distant fifth.  Not so much the trades, which were understandable, but the contract to Dontrelle and knowing that they were going back to Kenny and Todd one too many times and doing it anyway.  But Galarraga was a coup, and the trade for Cabrera will be remembered fondly for a long time.</p>
<p>I think the offense has been fine.  Hard to remember, but three runs is supposed to win games sometimes.  I think the defense, first three weeks excepted, has been slightly better than expected.  In my book, Grandy, Maggs, Miggy and Polly are all above average (although only Curtis is much above), and nobody has really been glaringly bad.  The bullpen has<br />
been awful, but the number of chances give to Zumaya while Rapada sits in Toledo is telling.  Also the number of chances given to a guy like Fossum while there are journeyman FAs everywhere who would gladly give you a 4.60 ERA for league minimum salary.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104310</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104310</guid>
		<description>Rick G.:  Some good points made there.  I&#039;ll dispute lumping Willis in there with the SP woes, though.  Granted they expected to get something out of him but a) he only started 2 games and b) his ineptitude/injury led to Galarraga getting an extended look, which has worked out well.  Also, while Verlander&#039;s results look mediocre, if you look at his numbers other than ERA and W/L he hasn&#039;t pitched any differently than he did the last 2 years.  He&#039;s had some bad luck (read: a downgraded defense playing behind him).  All that being said, the crappy starting pitching is still #1 in our polls so while we may disagree on the specifics, the overall point still stands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick G.:  Some good points made there.  I&#8217;ll dispute lumping Willis in there with the SP woes, though.  Granted they expected to get something out of him but a) he only started 2 games and b) his ineptitude/injury led to Galarraga getting an extended look, which has worked out well.  Also, while Verlander&#8217;s results look mediocre, if you look at his numbers other than ERA and W/L he hasn&#8217;t pitched any differently than he did the last 2 years.  He&#8217;s had some bad luck (read: a downgraded defense playing behind him).  All that being said, the crappy starting pitching is still #1 in our polls so while we may disagree on the specifics, the overall point still stands.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick G</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104309</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104309</guid>
		<description>The Coaches&#039; Poll Top 5 Blame

1. Starting pitching. Case in point - Robertson, Nate /  Verlander, Justin / Willis, Dontrelle
2. General Managering - Cutting Byrdak, non-arbitrating Durbin, assuming Cruceta would be good, not getting any other help for the bullpen, etc. etc. etc.
3. Managering. Not prepared coming out of spring training, Gary Sheffield, 3B/1B switcheroo, lack of urgency all year.
4. Relief pitching. Although this was expected to be bad given the absence of Rodney &amp; Zumaya early on.
5.  Defense - although also expected to be bad.

The coaches apparently don&#039;t put a lot of stock in the 12 shutouts, other than the fact it shows the team was not very motivated much of the time, which they blame the manager for (there&#039;s some irony for you!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Coaches&#8217; Poll Top 5 Blame</p>
<p>1. Starting pitching. Case in point &#8211; Robertson, Nate /  Verlander, Justin / Willis, Dontrelle<br />
2. General Managering &#8211; Cutting Byrdak, non-arbitrating Durbin, assuming Cruceta would be good, not getting any other help for the bullpen, etc. etc. etc.<br />
3. Managering. Not prepared coming out of spring training, Gary Sheffield, 3B/1B switcheroo, lack of urgency all year.<br />
4. Relief pitching. Although this was expected to be bad given the absence of Rodney &amp; Zumaya early on.<br />
5.  Defense &#8211; although also expected to be bad.</p>
<p>The coaches apparently don&#8217;t put a lot of stock in the 12 shutouts, other than the fact it shows the team was not very motivated much of the time, which they blame the manager for (there&#8217;s some irony for you!).</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104308</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104308</guid>
		<description>One thing I find incredibly interesting:  the starters have thrown 744 innings, walking 295 batters.  The relievers are at a 392.2/206 ratio.  I sense that perhaps any offseason activity in the relief corps will focus on throwing effing strikes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I find incredibly interesting:  the starters have thrown 744 innings, walking 295 batters.  The relievers are at a 392.2/206 ratio.  I sense that perhaps any offseason activity in the relief corps will focus on throwing effing strikes.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104307</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104307</guid>
		<description>Well, a superficial analysis shows the starters ERA at 4.72 versus 4.31 for the bullpen.  You&#039;d really have to do a game-by-game analysis of the losses to see how many you could &quot;blame&quot; on the starting pitcher versus the relievers.  Maybe I&#039;ll do that if I get bored enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, a superficial analysis shows the starters ERA at 4.72 versus 4.31 for the bullpen.  You&#8217;d really have to do a game-by-game analysis of the losses to see how many you could &#8220;blame&#8221; on the starting pitcher versus the relievers.  Maybe I&#8217;ll do that if I get bored enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104306</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104306</guid>
		<description>Chris, I believe I actually read 12 somewhere recently. Since the 10th one, I think I&#039;ve been ready to believe anything.

Blame is such a tossup that my only point of contention with the ESPN/USA Today rankings is putting starters above bullpen. I&#039;m working on something I expect to demonstrate just how incredibly miserable the bullpen has been all season, because the early data has already begun to induce the rage-vomiting I&#039;ve heard so much about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I believe I actually read 12 somewhere recently. Since the 10th one, I think I&#8217;ve been ready to believe anything.</p>
<p>Blame is such a tossup that my only point of contention with the ESPN/USA Today rankings is putting starters above bullpen. I&#8217;m working on something I expect to demonstrate just how incredibly miserable the bullpen has been all season, because the early data has already begun to induce the rage-vomiting I&#8217;ve heard so much about.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104305</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104305</guid>
		<description>Wow.  It &quot;only&quot; has been 11 shutouts.  Why did I also think it was 12?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  It &#8220;only&#8221; has been 11 shutouts.  Why did I also think it was 12?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104304</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104304</guid>
		<description>The ESPN/USA Today Top 5 Blame

1.  Starting pitching.  Case in point - Robertson, Nate
2.  Defense.  Granderson is the only guy you could call &#039;plus&#039;
3.  Relief pitching.  Blown leads to division rivals does not equal pennants.
4.  Inconsistent offense.  12 shutouts?
5.  Managing.  Trotting out Gary Sheffield&#039;s Corpse at the expense of AB&#039;s for more productive hitters a few too many times.

As for injuries, the Tigers haven&#039;t been any worse off than most teams.  Losing Granderson to start the year didn&#039;t help.  Bonderman could&#039;ve been useful.  Maggs hit the DL for a stretch.  Zumaya never really being 100% wasn&#039;t good.  Other teams have had their injury woes and remained in contention, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ESPN/USA Today Top 5 Blame</p>
<p>1.  Starting pitching.  Case in point &#8211; Robertson, Nate<br />
2.  Defense.  Granderson is the only guy you could call &#8216;plus&#8217;<br />
3.  Relief pitching.  Blown leads to division rivals does not equal pennants.<br />
4.  Inconsistent offense.  12 shutouts?<br />
5.  Managing.  Trotting out Gary Sheffield&#8217;s Corpse at the expense of AB&#8217;s for more productive hitters a few too many times.</p>
<p>As for injuries, the Tigers haven&#8217;t been any worse off than most teams.  Losing Granderson to start the year didn&#8217;t help.  Bonderman could&#8217;ve been useful.  Maggs hit the DL for a stretch.  Zumaya never really being 100% wasn&#8217;t good.  Other teams have had their injury woes and remained in contention, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104303</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104303</guid>
		<description>The Tigers have been shut out 11 times, not 12. Right? So that stupid first post guy was wrong. I apologize on his behalf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Tigers have been shut out 11 times, not 12. Right? So that stupid first post guy was wrong. I apologize on his behalf.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104302</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104302</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think there&#039;s one guy or even one facet you can pin it on. Overall team failure to get it together, mainly, exacerbated by a number of poor decisions on Leyland&#039;s part.

AP Blame Top 5

1. Hitting (superficially good on paper)
2. Manager
3. Bullpen
4. Defense
5. Starting pitching (only because everything else has been worse!)

Bad luck and injuries? I don&#039;t think the Tigers have been ususually hard hit by all that. Maybe I&#039;m wrong. Maybe I&#039;m being uncharitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s one guy or even one facet you can pin it on. Overall team failure to get it together, mainly, exacerbated by a number of poor decisions on Leyland&#8217;s part.</p>
<p>AP Blame Top 5</p>
<p>1. Hitting (superficially good on paper)<br />
2. Manager<br />
3. Bullpen<br />
4. Defense<br />
5. Starting pitching (only because everything else has been worse!)</p>
<p>Bad luck and injuries? I don&#8217;t think the Tigers have been ususually hard hit by all that. Maybe I&#8217;m wrong. Maybe I&#8217;m being uncharitable.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104301</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104301</guid>
		<description>Mark J. - I&#039;ve gotta discount your theory a bit.  The Tigers best baseball happened to coincide with when they played the National (i.e. sissy) League.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark J. &#8211; I&#8217;ve gotta discount your theory a bit.  The Tigers best baseball happened to coincide with when they played the National (i.e. sissy) League.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark J in DC</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104300</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark J in DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104300</guid>
		<description>Gary Sheffield went on the DL basically at the end of the third inning, and came back around the end of the 5th innning. So far the 4th and 5th innings are our only two winning innings of the season. Is this just a coincidence? He has not produced on offense, which means we&#039;re getting nothing at the DH spot when he is in there, or at least not nearly as much as we should be getting from a DH. He may be a distraction in the locker room as well. Is it more than a coincidence that our best baseball has coincided with his trip to the DL?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary Sheffield went on the DL basically at the end of the third inning, and came back around the end of the 5th innning. So far the 4th and 5th innings are our only two winning innings of the season. Is this just a coincidence? He has not produced on offense, which means we&#8217;re getting nothing at the DH spot when he is in there, or at least not nearly as much as we should be getting from a DH. He may be a distraction in the locker room as well. Is it more than a coincidence that our best baseball has coincided with his trip to the DL?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104283</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104283</guid>
		<description>I did also!!!

Must be paid by 9/2!!!

Hah, Hah, Hah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did also!!!</p>
<p>Must be paid by 9/2!!!</p>
<p>Hah, Hah, Hah</p>
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		<title>By: cib</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104272</link>
		<dc:creator>cib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104272</guid>
		<description>Not quite sure where to post this but I am in shock.  Warning:  Extreme Chutzpah Alert!!

I received an invoice for postseason tickets in the mail today!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not quite sure where to post this but I am in shock.  Warning:  Extreme Chutzpah Alert!!</p>
<p>I received an invoice for postseason tickets in the mail today!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/the-7th-inning-2008/#comment-104271</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=3201#comment-104271</guid>
		<description>I wanted to feel sorry for the Tigers starters, what with the 12 games of zero run support and all. Especially Kenny, the starter for 5 of them. But I can&#039;t.

12 G, 61.2 IP, 38 ER, 76 H, 28 K, 27 BB, 1.67 WHIP, 5.55 ERA

Nate in his last 10 starts (since July 1):

53 IP, 28 K, 24 BB, 1.91 WHIP, 7.64 ERA

.344/.407/.639 = 1.036 OPS against, 35 XBH in 77 H (13 HR)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to feel sorry for the Tigers starters, what with the 12 games of zero run support and all. Especially Kenny, the starter for 5 of them. But I can&#8217;t.</p>
<p>12 G, 61.2 IP, 38 ER, 76 H, 28 K, 27 BB, 1.67 WHIP, 5.55 ERA</p>
<p>Nate in his last 10 starts (since July 1):</p>
<p>53 IP, 28 K, 24 BB, 1.91 WHIP, 7.64 ERA</p>
<p>.344/.407/.639 = 1.036 OPS against, 35 XBH in 77 H (13 HR)</p>
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