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	<title>Comments on: Leyland abuses Verlander&#8217;s arm for no good reason</title>
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		<title>By: The Detroit Tiger Weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Managing Verlander&#8217;s Workload</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-104883</link>
		<dc:creator>The Detroit Tiger Weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Managing Verlander&#8217;s Workload</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-104883</guid>
		<description>[...] entails? Here&#039;s a primer. Thanks for visiting!After Justin Verlander&#8217;s 130 pitch outing, I flailed wildly in frustration at the stupidity of the situation. I didn&#8217;t care for the move from an in game management [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] entails? Here&#8217;s a primer. Thanks for visiting!After Justin Verlander&#8217;s 130 pitch outing, I flailed wildly in frustration at the stupidity of the situation. I didn&#8217;t care for the move from an in game management [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102879</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 08:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102879</guid>
		<description>Sean C:  &quot;Chris: I did, and I’m enjoying the meth you (and Coleman) suggested as an alternative. Besides, what were you thinking, posting that link to a crack site earlier? Oh wait, that was cracked&quot;  I think you must be mistaking some comment I made; I have been enjoying daily a dish I call Mess-Ham-Feta-mine, which is entirely organic and has no unnatural effects on the brain, unless you are enjoying the saltiness of it an entire afternoon without so much as a sip of water and the spiders begin to appear everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean C:  &#8220;Chris: I did, and I’m enjoying the meth you (and Coleman) suggested as an alternative. Besides, what were you thinking, posting that link to a crack site earlier? Oh wait, that was cracked&#8221;  I think you must be mistaking some comment I made; I have been enjoying daily a dish I call Mess-Ham-Feta-mine, which is entirely organic and has no unnatural effects on the brain, unless you are enjoying the saltiness of it an entire afternoon without so much as a sip of water and the spiders begin to appear everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102878</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 07:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102878</guid>
		<description>Sean C:  I am catching up, since I cleverly missed a flight and you would not believe the quantity of blog that can be read until the next one..

I saw you mentioned &quot;Kenesaw Mountain Landis&quot; which reminded  me I&#039;ve always thought that name had a trickiness to it, it would be a good name to have on your name tag and would go well with the ham sandwich, and you would never have a need for the pickle or chip.

But the &quot;Land&quot; part of the last name makes the name rhyme with the &quot;Mountain&quot; part (with a little &quot;i&quot; following so that is more tricky and less heavy), and somehow the &quot;Mountain Landis&quot; echoes back faintly so that somehow the first name, whatever it means, brings to mind the trees of the forest, does it not?  Maybe the &quot;saw?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean C:  I am catching up, since I cleverly missed a flight and you would not believe the quantity of blog that can be read until the next one..</p>
<p>I saw you mentioned &#8220;Kenesaw Mountain Landis&#8221; which reminded  me I&#8217;ve always thought that name had a trickiness to it, it would be a good name to have on your name tag and would go well with the ham sandwich, and you would never have a need for the pickle or chip.</p>
<p>But the &#8220;Land&#8221; part of the last name makes the name rhyme with the &#8220;Mountain&#8221; part (with a little &#8220;i&#8221; following so that is more tricky and less heavy), and somehow the &#8220;Mountain Landis&#8221; echoes back faintly so that somehow the first name, whatever it means, brings to mind the trees of the forest, does it not?  Maybe the &#8220;saw?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102874</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 05:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102874</guid>
		<description>Ryan:

It&#039;s an interesting point you raise about the farm system. If all current minor league teams were under the same umbrella - that is, if all North american pro baseball was simply different levels of &quot;MLB&quot; - and MLB was organized as I &quot;proposed&quot; in an earlier post, I could see the idea of a farm system being made obsolete. 

Players would still make their way up the ladder without being &quot;owned&quot; by this or that organization. Teams in Division I would not concern themselves with drafts; instead, they&#039;d probably be eyeing players in Divisions II and III. It would be teams at the low levels who would be signing the high school, college, and &quot;amateur free agent&quot; guys.

Scott:

I didn&#039;t know what you related about the high school leagues in Michigan. That&#039;s pretty cool.

The divisions (my theoretical ones) might start out in market size groupings, but that would break down over time. It might seem ridiculous to see teams like (say) Columbus and Wichita playing in Division I, and Pittsburgh and Kansas City playing in Division IV with Lakeland, until you realize what a boon to the game it would be to richly reward good baseball and good management and severely penalize the opposite.

Playoffs? At the top level, there would still be the playoffs and World Series as we know it. In the lower divisions, there really wouldn&#039;t be any point to that. The big deal there - and it would be &lt;b&gt;huge&lt;/b&gt; - would be finishing in a position to make the leap to the higher division the next year. Not only for the pride of acheivement, but because the money would naturally get better and better all the way up to &quot;the bigs,&quot; Division I. Earn that promotion, and the whole darn team gets a big raise!

It&#039;s a pipe dream, sure, but an interesting one.

Damn, I&#039;m out of crack again. Taxi!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an interesting point you raise about the farm system. If all current minor league teams were under the same umbrella &#8211; that is, if all North american pro baseball was simply different levels of &#8220;MLB&#8221; &#8211; and MLB was organized as I &#8220;proposed&#8221; in an earlier post, I could see the idea of a farm system being made obsolete. </p>
<p>Players would still make their way up the ladder without being &#8220;owned&#8221; by this or that organization. Teams in Division I would not concern themselves with drafts; instead, they&#8217;d probably be eyeing players in Divisions II and III. It would be teams at the low levels who would be signing the high school, college, and &#8220;amateur free agent&#8221; guys.</p>
<p>Scott:</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t know what you related about the high school leagues in Michigan. That&#8217;s pretty cool.</p>
<p>The divisions (my theoretical ones) might start out in market size groupings, but that would break down over time. It might seem ridiculous to see teams like (say) Columbus and Wichita playing in Division I, and Pittsburgh and Kansas City playing in Division IV with Lakeland, until you realize what a boon to the game it would be to richly reward good baseball and good management and severely penalize the opposite.</p>
<p>Playoffs? At the top level, there would still be the playoffs and World Series as we know it. In the lower divisions, there really wouldn&#8217;t be any point to that. The big deal there &#8211; and it would be <b>huge</b> &#8211; would be finishing in a position to make the leap to the higher division the next year. Not only for the pride of acheivement, but because the money would naturally get better and better all the way up to &#8220;the bigs,&#8221; Division I. Earn that promotion, and the whole darn team gets a big raise!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a pipe dream, sure, but an interesting one.</p>
<p>Damn, I&#8217;m out of crack again. Taxi!</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Tuesday</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102873</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Tuesday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 04:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102873</guid>
		<description>Gak!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gak!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102823</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102823</guid>
		<description>Sean C:

Some of the high school mega leagues are set up that way here in Michigan. It does even out the playing field, but would that mean you only play teams from that Division? I could see how that might work. You&#039;d probably have three divisions in baseball: Large, medium and small markets. How would the playoff system work? Top two teams in each Division play their own World Series?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean C:</p>
<p>Some of the high school mega leagues are set up that way here in Michigan. It does even out the playing field, but would that mean you only play teams from that Division? I could see how that might work. You&#8217;d probably have three divisions in baseball: Large, medium and small markets. How would the playoff system work? Top two teams in each Division play their own World Series?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan P</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102818</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102818</guid>
		<description>The europeon style of divisioning is pretty sweet.  Not sure if it would really work for baseball though - can&#039;t have that and your farm teams at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The europeon style of divisioning is pretty sweet.  Not sure if it would really work for baseball though &#8211; can&#8217;t have that and your farm teams at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: rings</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102817</link>
		<dc:creator>rings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102817</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Bilfer, for an excellent topic that Leyland defenders need to be aware of.
After three seasons of watching him daily, I just don&#039;t get the &quot;genius&quot; of his pitching staff management. I&#039;d argue that nearly EVERYONE on the staff has REGRESSED overall since 2006.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Bilfer, for an excellent topic that Leyland defenders need to be aware of.<br />
After three seasons of watching him daily, I just don&#8217;t get the &#8220;genius&#8221; of his pitching staff management. I&#8217;d argue that nearly EVERYONE on the staff has REGRESSED overall since 2006.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102813</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102813</guid>
		<description>While I&#039;m still on crack. meth, and using copious amounts of peyote (league curling tonight down at the curling alley - whoopee!), let me run this by my fellow brainstormers.

I simply love the European system of levels and divisions. Hardcore soccer (football!) and hockey fans already know what I mean. For those that don&#039;t, it&#039;s like this:

Imagine an array of teams all over the place, big market, small market, huge market, tiny market. Naturally, the big markets are going to attract the big talent. So, if you considered every level of pro baseball as part of one gigantic league, you would start out with you New Yorks and Los Angeleses as elite franchises, in &quot;Division I,&quot; perhaps. Top level.

Here&#039;s the beauty part. You have to play to stay. Let&#039;s say Division I is the current 30-team MLB. What&#039;s the incentive now to not run a franchise into the ground? Well, here&#039;s one more. Let&#039;s say if you finish last in your division, &lt;b&gt;you drop&lt;/b&gt;. That&#039;s right - next year, you&#039;re playing in Division II. And for the teams in the lower divisons, finshing on top of your division earns you a trip upstairs to the next level. So a team from Buffalo or Erie or Kalamazoo could end up in the bigs, if they were the top-flight operation that belongs there.

No need to tell me why that doesn&#039;t work for a sport more business than sport. But you have to admit, it&#039;s a hell of a way to go if you&#039;re into quaint notions like the pride of acheivement and such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m still on crack. meth, and using copious amounts of peyote (league curling tonight down at the curling alley &#8211; whoopee!), let me run this by my fellow brainstormers.</p>
<p>I simply love the European system of levels and divisions. Hardcore soccer (football!) and hockey fans already know what I mean. For those that don&#8217;t, it&#8217;s like this:</p>
<p>Imagine an array of teams all over the place, big market, small market, huge market, tiny market. Naturally, the big markets are going to attract the big talent. So, if you considered every level of pro baseball as part of one gigantic league, you would start out with you New Yorks and Los Angeleses as elite franchises, in &#8220;Division I,&#8221; perhaps. Top level.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the beauty part. You have to play to stay. Let&#8217;s say Division I is the current 30-team MLB. What&#8217;s the incentive now to not run a franchise into the ground? Well, here&#8217;s one more. Let&#8217;s say if you finish last in your division, <b>you drop</b>. That&#8217;s right &#8211; next year, you&#8217;re playing in Division II. And for the teams in the lower divisons, finshing on top of your division earns you a trip upstairs to the next level. So a team from Buffalo or Erie or Kalamazoo could end up in the bigs, if they were the top-flight operation that belongs there.</p>
<p>No need to tell me why that doesn&#8217;t work for a sport more business than sport. But you have to admit, it&#8217;s a hell of a way to go if you&#8217;re into quaint notions like the pride of acheivement and such.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102811</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102811</guid>
		<description>Scott

Well, you see where I&#039;m coming from, which is good. It&#039;s not as though I&#039;ve thought this through completely - I just gathered a few kernels of ideas together to get thoughts and opinions from others.

I don&#039;t, however, see rosters changing season to season any more under my &quot;system&quot; than they do right now. If anything, it would be less. When good compensation is more closely tied to improving/maintaining your actual performance level rather than chasing the free agent bucks over to New York, Boston, or California, a kind of sensible stability becomes more possible, I think. A good franchise in any market, rather than a rich franchise, would be more attractive. Good management would attract talent, which would attract still more talent, and yet it still couldn&#039;t get unbalanced to the point where big money + big market = essentially endless dynasty (Yankees). It&#039;s rather self-limited, I think, more so than things are currently. More parity and better, more competitive baseball would be by-products rather than something you&#039;d have to induce artificially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott</p>
<p>Well, you see where I&#8217;m coming from, which is good. It&#8217;s not as though I&#8217;ve thought this through completely &#8211; I just gathered a few kernels of ideas together to get thoughts and opinions from others.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t, however, see rosters changing season to season any more under my &#8220;system&#8221; than they do right now. If anything, it would be less. When good compensation is more closely tied to improving/maintaining your actual performance level rather than chasing the free agent bucks over to New York, Boston, or California, a kind of sensible stability becomes more possible, I think. A good franchise in any market, rather than a rich franchise, would be more attractive. Good management would attract talent, which would attract still more talent, and yet it still couldn&#8217;t get unbalanced to the point where big money + big market = essentially endless dynasty (Yankees). It&#8217;s rather self-limited, I think, more so than things are currently. More parity and better, more competitive baseball would be by-products rather than something you&#8217;d have to induce artificially.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102810</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102810</guid>
		<description>Sean:  My first plans for curling are to outlaw maple brooms and implement mandatory drug testing.  The maple brooms are just too dangerous for all involved.  My drug testing platform may backfire, though.  I&#039;m pretty sure that to participate in that sport, you need to be on copious amounts of peyote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean:  My first plans for curling are to outlaw maple brooms and implement mandatory drug testing.  The maple brooms are just too dangerous for all involved.  My drug testing platform may backfire, though.  I&#8217;m pretty sure that to participate in that sport, you need to be on copious amounts of peyote.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102809</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102809</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;I still don’t believe small market teams can be competitive year in and year out. They end up being farm systems for big market teams (ie. Kansas City, Pittsburgh… and Montreal back in the day).&lt;/b&gt;

see Twins, Minnesota.  

Really, if you run your organization well enough you can be competitive consistently.  Pointing out KC and the &#039;Burgh are kind of bad examples because both organizations are run with their heads firmly planted in their asses.  It&#039;s all about investing your modest resources in the right places (i.e. scouting, player development, the draft).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I still don’t believe small market teams can be competitive year in and year out. They end up being farm systems for big market teams (ie. Kansas City, Pittsburgh… and Montreal back in the day).</b></p>
<p>see Twins, Minnesota.  </p>
<p>Really, if you run your organization well enough you can be competitive consistently.  Pointing out KC and the &#8216;Burgh are kind of bad examples because both organizations are run with their heads firmly planted in their asses.  It&#8217;s all about investing your modest resources in the right places (i.e. scouting, player development, the draft).</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102807</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102807</guid>
		<description>Sean:

I like your ideas as far as player salaries. But I&#039;m a bit lost on the idea of all players being employees of MLB ... it almost sounds like you want to go to a fantasy baseball-style format where franchises would be drafting rosters each year.

I don&#039;t think capitalism works well in baseball. I would like to see all revenues generated go into one big pot and then equally distributed to each team. Each team would be given the same budget each year for player salaries and would be required to spend within a certain percentage of that number .. say 90 or 95 percent. Extra funds manditorialy going into player development/scouting. In such a system, franchises that made the best baseball decisions (drafting, development, trades.. etc...) would be rewarded.

Under the current system (and I know the so-called revenue sharing has helped some), I still don&#039;t believe small market teams can be competitive year in and year out. They end up being farm systems for big market teams (ie. Kansas City, Pittsburgh... and Montreal back in the day).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean:</p>
<p>I like your ideas as far as player salaries. But I&#8217;m a bit lost on the idea of all players being employees of MLB &#8230; it almost sounds like you want to go to a fantasy baseball-style format where franchises would be drafting rosters each year.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think capitalism works well in baseball. I would like to see all revenues generated go into one big pot and then equally distributed to each team. Each team would be given the same budget each year for player salaries and would be required to spend within a certain percentage of that number .. say 90 or 95 percent. Extra funds manditorialy going into player development/scouting. In such a system, franchises that made the best baseball decisions (drafting, development, trades.. etc&#8230;) would be rewarded.</p>
<p>Under the current system (and I know the so-called revenue sharing has helped some), I still don&#8217;t believe small market teams can be competitive year in and year out. They end up being farm systems for big market teams (ie. Kansas City, Pittsburgh&#8230; and Montreal back in the day).</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102806</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102806</guid>
		<description>Chris - If elected, what are your plans for improving the sad state of professional curling, currently in disarray?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris &#8211; If elected, what are your plans for improving the sad state of professional curling, currently in disarray?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102805</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/08/leyland-abuses-verlanders-arm-for-no-good-reason/#comment-102805</guid>
		<description>I look forward to working under your strong, visionary leadership and guidance, Mr. in Dallas.

(Figured I might as well start sucking up now. Could help my own campaign.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look forward to working under your strong, visionary leadership and guidance, Mr. in Dallas.</p>
<p>(Figured I might as well start sucking up now. Could help my own campaign.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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