One area where the Tigers have been rumored to be shoppers is the bullpen. It’s a situation that has been exacerbated by Todd Jones’s failures, Freddy Dolsi’s shoulder fatigue, and Joel Zumaya’s tricep issues and general control problems. But why don’t the Tigers look inside the organization? After all this is a team that used its first 4 picks in the 2008 draft on college relievers. Shouldn’t they be able to take advantage to bolster the pen?
While first round pick Ryan Perry just started pitching in games last week, other members of the 2008 class have been pitching for several weeks with considerable success.
Rob Weinhardt, the 10th round pick, has put up the most sparkling numbers and he’s done it at Lakeland. Going into today he had allowed 2 hits, a walk, while fanning 21 in 15.1 innings. He’s joined in Lakeland by 2nd round pick Cody Satterwhite who has pitched 4 scoreless innings with 6 K’s while allowing 5 baserunners.
Farther down at West Michigan 3rd rounder Scott Green has a 1.00 WHIP in his 9 innings with 7 K’s, 1 walk and 8 hits allowed. Fourth round pick Brett Jacobson sports a 3.07 ERA in 14.2 innings with 13 strike outs against 3 walks.
If you want someone with more experience, Casey Fien caught Leyland’s eye this spring and has a 2.96 ERA in 45.2 innings at Erie (he was just promoted to Toledo) with 42 K’s and 12 walks. His only blemish is that he’s a fly ball pitcher with 5 homers in 45.2 innings.
Or there is Chris Lambert who has been starting with some success for Toledo. He has a 3.42 ERA and a 97:41 K:BB ratio in 118.1 innings. I don’t know if he can start, but the Tigers will likely be adding him to the 40 man roster this offseason to protect him from the Rule 5 draft regardless so why not see if he can help now?
Now the trouble with all the previously mentioned guys is that they are right handed. But Clay Rapada is still toiling in the organization and has a 2.70 ERA for Toledo and has fanned 28 in 20 innings.
I’m sure that Dombrowski and company are aware of what is in the system. But in my mind if you make such a concerted effort to draft college relievers, a big part of the value is that those arms should be close to big league ready and their value is enhanced by being able to contribute quickly. If none can contribute then I question the selections. I don’t question the scouting, because quite frankly I’ve never seen these guys pitch and I’m far from qualified to do the assessment anyways. But it doesn’t mean I can’t question the philosophy. Combine that with a lefty specialist who seems capable of the role and I can’t figure out why the Tigers would give up anything of value for what would likely be a nondescript bullpen arm.
I generally agree with your post, but my guess is that they aren’t particularly worried about this year. I doubt they’ll make a move this week, but they’ll definitely need to do some things in the offseason. The draft picks were probably done to shore up next year’s bullpen, so they can concentrate on other positions in the offseason.
Yeah, looking for bullpen help for 08 now is like John Edwards coming up with a new campaign slogan after New Hampshire.
I say trade Rogers and Pudge for solid AA prospects and start the makeover on this team, pronto. It’s not that they’re to blame, but there still decent and have expiring contracts so could be tradeable.
Onward and upward toward 09.
The Tigers didn’t make a trade for bullpen help last year, and yet they were in much better position to win the central back then. I don’t see why they would consider a trade this year when the need for pen help is less and the chances of a playoff run are so slim
It needs to be said. Jason Grilli and Denny Bautista are pitching well for their respective teams. Bautista, in particular, was a frustrating move.
I don’t regret the loss of Bautista. Grilli, maybe a little. Fossum is no upgrade there. But what Bautista and Grilli are doing with their new teams doesn’t convince me they would have done it in Detroit. Change of scenery can be a good thing.
I agree that trading for a reliever, other than a top notch closer (and how is that going to happen?) would seem very odd at this point. The Tigers have plenty of arms within the organization to turn to.
i would like to see how blaine neal would look with the tigers. he has been good at toledo this year.
i keep hearing that we should trade pudge. i know he is playing for a new contract but i don’t understand where we would upgrade the position by trading him. i don’t think we have anyone ready in the system and if he hits free agency he will be the top catcher this year. i know he has some deficiencies but i don’t believe inge full time would be an upgrade.
Hey Eddie don’t forget about Chad Durbin. He seems to be doing alright in Philly with a 1.72 ERA in 57.2 innings and 49 to 20 K/BB ratio.
Also, Tim Byrdak has a 2.80 ERA in 35 innings for Houston after pitching well for us last year and getting released in spring training.
I don’t think the Tigers will make any trades, but could Jones be on the block since he apparently has no role here now? Maybe some other fringe team could see him as an upgrade over what they have?
Any ex-Tiger pitchers in the AL, perchance? And how are they doing?
One question is who do you dump or send down? Dolsi?
I’m not sure I want another rookie to learn the ropes right now. We’ve already given plenty of golden opportunities for guys to make our pen this season.
Also,it seems we’ve already trimmed off the fat and have the best arms already up here. They just need to perform a little better.
There is one reliever I’d trade for that wouldn’t cost too much- that is Doug Brocail.
I don’t think the Tigers are looking to trade for bullpen help as much as they are trying to trade away certain prospects they’re convinced won’t cut it. And a nondescript bullpen man is probably all they can get for these guys.
I’m not thinking there’s a market for Jones. You figure he’d only going to a contender since he’s not exactly a building block for the future. Let’s scan some of the contenders closer situations:
NYY – Sandman
BOS – Papelbon
TB – Percival
CWS – Jenks
MIN – Nathan
LAA – K-Rod
PHI – Lidge
NYM – Wagner
FLA – Gregg
CHC – Wood
MIL – Pu-pu platter
STL – Izzy
LAD – Broxton
ARI – Lyon
Maybe Florida or Milwaukee would see TJ as an ‘upgrade’. Since I have no evidence to the contrary, I’ll have to assume that a Hanley Ramirez-Todd Jones swap is in the works.
“I’m not thinking there’s a market for Jones.”
You’re wrong, Chris. He lives not far away at all from a market, and shops there all the time during the off-season.
Nice area, too.
Whatever deals – if any – the Tigers make by the deadline, I hope they will take the long view and get a head start on 2009 with any and all of them. No short term, make a desperate run at it stuff.
There is no magic bullet for what ails the Tigers in 2008, not even an ace closer. They’re a very good team playing like a mediocre team. Conceivably, they could bring the entire team back as is for 2009 and get different results, maybe even much better ones. I don’t think they will, though.
I dont think the Astros are going to trade Brocail, but I’m sure they’d be willing to give us Brad Ausmus back. Maybe theyd take the ham sandwich we get for Edgar when we trade him. Then we can make Inge play SS and have a really old catcher lined-up for next season.
Hold on to that ham sandwich. See if it has any range at SS. If not, give it to Gil.
Billfer: Yes, yes, yes…
The only bullpen move that makes any sense is for a bonafide star. There’s no need to make a move for “serviceable” parts. If it’s not an impact move, what’s the point? Serviceable parts, we have.
The team needs to make moves with an eye for 2009 without giving up on 2008… So, moving Pudge might work, if the team feels they can contend with Inge behind the plate. Moving Sheffield for a SS prospect (at all possible?) would be a nice move… But they can’t move Rogers without giving up on 2008.
The season isn’t over, but it’s now entering “long-shot” territory. But it’s still worth fighting for.
Why would we want Ausmus?
lol Ausmus. He makes Brandon Inge look like Mike Piazza.
My guess is we’ll end up with someone like Scott Eyre from the Cubs for a nondescript minor leaguer. It’s sort of like asking, “does anyone have change for a button?”
I still think that the ’08 Tigers have one more good run in them. Whether it’s enough to make up 6.5 games, I’m not sure but I think we’ll see them rip off a 20-8 stretch or something along those lines. With that in mind, I don’t think they’ll really do anything trade-wise unless it’s really minor. And I don’t mean Zach. I wouldn’t mind seeing them dump some salary (Sheffield, Robertson, Inge) to free up some payroll to make a push for Sabathia in the offseason, but realistically I don’t think you’d find a team willing to take on any of those contracts except for maybe Nate. They could lose any or all of those guys and still be a “contender”, though, with an eye towards landing the big fish for 2009.
I said Brocail because he is 41 years old and on a 1 year contract. He might not even be back next season if he retires. He’d be just a 2 or 3 month rental. He’s a FA after the season and can sign with any team. He could even go back to the Stros if he wanted to. It wouldn’t take much to get either.
If Detroit was in 1st right now and had an 8.5 game lead on the 2nd place team, would everyone here think that we had the division locked up?
At this time in 2006, Minnesota was 10.5 games behind Detroit. Also Chicago was 8.5 back.
It wasn’t over back then. It isn’t over now either.
A hodgepodge of 2008 pitching numbers:
FIRST PITCH OUTCOME % BF
Galarraga STRIKE 45.6% BALL 39.6% IN PLAY 14.8%=.828 OPS
Verlander STRIKE 45.8% BALL 42.0% IN PLAY 12.2%=.580 OPS
Rogers STRIKE 41.2% BALL 43.9% IN PLAY 14.9%=.966 OPS
Robertson STRIKE 43.8% BALL 40.7 IN PLAY 15.5%=.518 OPS
OPS AGAINST WITH 2-STRIKE COUNTS (ALL PA)
Galarraga .465
Verlander .465
Robertson .669
Rogers .741
CALLED STRIKES PER BF
Verlander 1.51
Rogers 1.36
Galarraga 1.35
Robertson 1.31
“If Detroit was in 1st right now and had an 8.5 game lead on the 2nd place team, would everyone here think that we had the division locked up?”
Yes. You would, too, optimist. I said, who do, who do you think you’re foolin’? I’m a consummated fan.
Sean – I’d say the key is to throw first pitch strikes and get guys into 2 strike counts, no?
Ramon Santiago still has fewer plate appearances than Jacque Jones did. Edgar Renteria still has more strikeouts and GDP than Santiago has AB. It’s not as though I find this offensive or think it’s hurt the team, though. No, far from it.
Yeh, there’s a market for Jones- the .99 Cent Store.
Chris, you disappoint me. I thought the conclusion to be drawn from my stats was too obvious to state outright. I guess I’ll have to spell it out.
Verlander will be 23-10, 2.95 in 2010. Nate, having moved to the pen, picks up 45 saves in his first full season as closer. Kenny, having a Cy Young season for the Phillies, is cut down just after the break by what turns out to be a career-ending injury (a pine tar melanoma. only described to the public as a “skin condition”). Battlestar (dealt in the trade that brought Joe Mauer to Detroit) has a so-so, Nate-like year with his new team.
Aw, the team is fatigued. Jimmy made it optional batting practice today. Must be like a guy who works 12 hour shifts to support his family and afford tikets to an occasional ballgame. That fatigue can really flatten you out.
It’s only a test by a shrewd motivator, Ron. Everyone who doesn’t show up for BP gets traded. The timing of this move is not coincidental.
Sean C., Mr. Motivator comes up brilliant one more time. Thank you for pointing that out.
I think we should trade pudge to Florida. Maybe they will give us Maybin and Miller.
Sean you forgot to mention that CC Sabathia will go 29-2, 1.10 for the 2010 Tigers, which will pale in comparison to the 35-0, 0.00 season posted by Rick Porcello. He’ll fall short in the Cy Young voting to Joel Zumaya, though, who will record 153 saves. I got this information from Biff Tannen’s Sports Encyclopedia, so it’s guaranteed to be accurate.
Nah. Pudge to Florida for Maybin and Miller PLUS Rabelo, De La Cruz, Trahern and Badenhop. And then DD can turn around and flip Willis for Pudge.
“One area where the Tigers have been rumored to be shoppers is…”
Shoppers?
The Tigers should be sellers. The problem is, who wants Sheffield, Jones, Renteria, Willis, Pudge, etc… ?
The last time I seen this much junk for sale was at the Rose Bowl flea market.
At this time in 2006, Minnesota was 10.5 games behind Detroit. Also Chicago was 8.5 back.
It wasn’t over back then. It isn’t over now either.
Technically it’s not over until the Tigers are mathematically eliminated, but in 2006 Detroit thoroughly crapped the bed and Minny went on a tear.
Let’s just say for sake of discussion that I’m a faithful subscriber to your newsletter. Let’s just say Detroit does the only thing they can control: go on a tear. I might buy that — might — (even though they can’t seem to defeat the two teams ahead of them — which renders your premise somewhat implausible) even so, what are the odds that both Minny and the Whitesox are gonna thoroughly crap the bed and the Tigers are going to go on aforementioned and highly hypothetical tear?
Top 5 2008 AL Offenses, by VORP:
Team, EqA, VORP
Texas Rangers, .279, 201.7
Boston Red Sox, .272, 190.8
Detroit Tigers, .264, 169.6
Chicago White Sox, .262, 148.9
New York Yankees, .260, 135.9
One’s mind begins to boggle when you figure that this team has been shut out in 50% of their games.
The only pieces the Tigers really have to sell are Pudge and Rogers. Everybody keeps talking about Pudge — but if the Tigers are really gonna sell (which I doubt they will, unless the get swept by the Indians), I think Rogers is going to be the first to go and yield the best return.
6.5 games translates to gaining one game per week over the remainder of the season. When you say it like that, it’s not unfathomable.
“At this time in 2006, Minnesota was 10.5 games behind Detroit. Also Chicago was 8.5 back.
It wasn’t over back then. It isn’t over now either.”
The tigers are behind TWO teams, not one. THAT is the major problem.
“And then DD can turn around and flip Willis for Pudge.”
That whole deal would be so cool. It has my endorsement. Can I say “ringing endorsement” even though I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean?
But seriously, I look forward to a time when teams can rent players by the week. It will put fantasy baseball right out of existence. “Fantasy baseball” will be as redundant as “absolutely perfect.”
Ron, I have utter confidence that every JL move that currently seems wrong will be vindicated in the end. I’ve got him pegged as a Master Of Reality temporarily in mortal, human form. He’s already inspired a baseball-flavored remake of “Wings Of Desire,” currently in production.
I actually sent an email to Bud Selig suggesting a mid-season realignment. If all goes according to plan (and I have no reason to think it won’t), the SF Giants and Tigers will swap divisions on August 1, and the Tigers will assume 1st place in the NL West.
Some people here have been ready to give up, quit, start trading players away, and want to rebuild an already great team.
That’s not me. I won’t settle for 3rd place like these people. I want the Tigers in the playoffs this season and you don’t get there by quiting when there are over 2 months of baseball left.
Two months of baseball can be an eternity of greatness. What do I most remember about the ’84 Tigers regular season? It was there 35 -5 run they made at the start of the season.
I wish they would of finished the season 35-5 instead. Atleast then September would of been memorable.
This season can still be very special for all Tiger fans. It would be a disaster if they quit now like how some people want them to.
I’d be heartbroken if the Tigers quit right now.
“got this information from Biff Tannen’s Sports Encyclopedia, so it’s guaranteed to be accurate.”
I like your info, Chris. You put the kibosh on my follow-up, though, giving Zumaya so many saves.
Honestly, I don’t think 6.5 is too unfathomable — as long as the Tigers play like they played in KS the rest of the year — I’ll even factor in a couple tough-luck losses — but I’m afraid there’s not too many 4-hit shutouts left in the tank.
It’s plausible to me that both the Twins and the Whitesox slip (maybe play .500 or a little bit better) but what’s seems a little less plausible to me, is the Tigers figuring out those teams. They’re going to need to sweep at least one of them and take 2 of 3 from the other (at the very least). And they are probably gonna need to sweep both teams to have a real shot at it. To me, that’s what I find harder to fathom.
But hey, I just finished Chief’s newsletter and am feeling upbeat. Anything’s possible, no?
I think the White Sox crap the bed. Their pitching has been in the toilet for a few weeks now. They just lost one of their best relievers also, Linebrink.
And who said we need to beat Minnesota anyway? There is a wild card. Minnesota and Detroit can both make the play-offs.
If you’ve paid attention to the other teams, then you’d know that Boston has been playing .500 ball for the last few months. They’re not going to make the playoffs if they keep playing like they are.
TB Rays are are getting cold also.
That leaves the Yankees, who have played very good for the past 2 months. They are the team to look out for to win the East.
The Tigers just need to take care of their own business. They might be 6.5 out of 1st, but they are also just 7 games behind in the Wildcard.
Chris, I hope you had the good sense to use phrases like “no reason, really” and “just for the hell of it” in your letter to Selig. Rationale ain’t gonna fly with that office. Although you could vaguely hint that it might help the Brewers somehow.
6.5 games is certainly not insurmountable. I figured after they’re run to get over .500 they’d spin their wheels for while. The key was to not fall significantly below .500 again. So far they haven’t done that. If they can survive these next 9 games (that is still be around .500) then I bet they make another run, pushing they’re record 12-14 games over .500. It probably won’t be enough but it will make the season interesting.
The Tigers have really been a pretty good ball club, a 90 win ball club, since that awful first two weeks. Since April 14, when they fell to 2-10, they have a run differential of +72. That’s a good club–a pennant contending club. They’re OPS differential is also strong, just as strong as the Rays and Angels for instance. Anyway you slice it, this team is pretty good. It will probably pay for the sins of early April I fear and miss the post season. But I’ll take a third straight season of competitive baseball any day.
“At this time in 2006, Minnesota was 10.5 games behind Detroit. Also Chicago was 8.5 back.
It wasn’t over back then. It isn’t over now either.”
The tigers are behind TWO teams, not one. THAT is the major problem.
Minnesota was behind TWO teams in 2006, as well, just like the Tigers are this year. And the Tigers are in better shape than the Twins were. The major problem is that they haven’t been able to make headway quickly enough, not that they’re behind two teams.
While passing two teams is certainly more difficult than catching one, I would point out that Minny has to play A TON of road games (courtesy of the GOP convention) where they are pretty awful and the Sox have to face some very tough teams down the stretch including the Yankees and Red Sox. Plus the Tigers get them 6 more times.
It’s a longshot, yes. But it is by no means impossible. It takes a hot stretch by the Tigers and a severe cooling off by the Sox and Twins. I promise you at least one of those three will happen.
If the Sox play .500 ball the rest of the way (no sure thing) they get to 88 wins. The Tigers would have to go 35-22 (.614) over the last 57 games to get to that level. Is that really impossible? Over the last 57 games, their record is……33-24.
I’m with Chief Monday. I don’t necessarily believe this is a great team, but with two months left, I see no point in giving up. Giving up is easy. The path of least resistance. Anyone can do it. The message is “it’s too hard, so we won’t try”. I just don’t accept that.
mj- Nothing is quick in baseball. There are 2 months left to make headway!
Brad Ausmus? Holy Scott Lusader, I think I started that last night but in jest…at least I followed the idea with this disclaimer:
“Trade rumor: an illness usually caused by watching your team get shutout by some crapass team…”
I don’t really want to give up, I just think trading Edgar for a ham sandwich would improve the team.
Edgar is finally heating up and you want to trade him?
Renteria has a .391 avg and a .870 OPS in the past 7 days.
No way you should give up at this point. The Twins of 2006 kind of prove that (or last year’s Rockies, Phillies, Yankees). I will note that the ’06 Twins did have an advantage that the ’08 Tigers do not. That being the apesh*t performances of Liriano and Santana that season. The Tigers don’t have two guys who are that dominant. Maybe one (provided he doesn’t pitch against Chicago or Cleveland), but not two.
Fine Chief I will upgrade my demands to a cheeseburger from Fudruckers with Onion Rings and an A&W Rootbeer float. DD can not settle for anything less.
Eddie- We’d want Ausmus to make our team’s average age get even older and to give Leyland another past his prime player he can stubborningly play everyday.
I don’t think anybody is really giving up. For sure, some people are being more realistic than others — but agreed, nobody should be giving up. Least of all, DD isn’t giving up. I’d be extremely surprised if the Tigers sell anything, even if they crap the bed in the next couple games.
I think the Tigers will win tonight — probably convincingly so — and will gain a game at least on one of the teams. Beating Cliff Lee tomorrow will be the challenge. That’s what I’m waiting for — a kinda barometer of how the rest of the road trip will go.
Couldn’t agree more, Chief Monday.
p.s. I apologize for the formatting of my previous post; I tried to quote two people and it didn’t turn out so well. I would’ve edited but the page started to hang and I couldn’t get back in for a while.
“Giving up is easy. The path of least resistance. Anyone can do it. The message is “it’s too hard, so we won’t try”. I just don’t accept that.”
Mark, not disputing anything you’ve said or misconstruing your point, but only making my own: It’s just as easy to be blindly optimistic under the guise of “anything’s possible.”
I’m neither giving up or hoping too hard. Taking it game by game. Enjoying the steps forward and gritting my teeth at the steps backward without paying too much attention to the Sox or Twins. The Tigers haven’t wasted my time if they don’t make the playoffs.
“Renteria has a .391 avg and a .870 OPS in the past 7 days.”
Increases his apparent trade value, Chief.
I don’t think you necessarily give up on this season, but you most definitely don’t give up anything remotely valuable in order to make marginal improvements for this year. If the Tigers make a push, they’ve got to do it with the horses they’ve got this year, and assess and address their needs over the offseason.
Also, if someone is looking for one of the Tigers’ players (Robertson, Pudge, Renteria) and is willing to give good value in return, I think you jump on it. I don’t think the Tigers’ remote chances of making the playoffs this year warrant turning down a chance to make the team better next year.
The ham sandwich has yet to make an error, but on the other hand is last in the league in range factor. In addition its great GIDP numbers (0) are offset by the paltry OBP of .000. So I think the key issue is one of intangibles; does the ham sandwich improve the clubhouse atmosphere? (Cabrera nodding vigorously…)
There is reason to be overly optimistic. What was everyone’s pre-season projection for the Tigers? Most people had them pegged for 1st place.
Not picking the Tigers to win 1st would of been overly pessimistic.
I think for those advocating trades for Jones and Rogers, (only one of whom I think would have takers), a real possibility for both of them is that they would retire instead.
If not, I can see Rogers taking on a Doyle Alexandrine hue for some team…
Sean: The Tigers will most definitely pick up Renteria’s option at the end of the season. After that, they’ll deal him if they still feel the need to trade him.
Hahaha Coleman I agree with you wholeheartedly. Except you have to remember that Edgar is just barely above the sandwich in range factor so that should really be a toss-up. And we could even demand that the ham be aged somehow and accomponied by carton of cigarettes so that Leyland is comfortable with the deal.
I don’t know about trading Renteria for ham. Although if I see him walking down the street, I may show him a “pressed ham”.
Chief,
I think your local boulangerie may be serving up a bit too many poppys on your morning bagel… but hey, I’m not knocking it. It’s a good balance to reality.
And when you turn out to be right, I for one am gonna buy you a beer.
I’m not sure how much that says, if he were down to his last smoke he might put up Verlander for a carton….
Edgar’s range may be better than I’ve been giving him credit for (the paradox of the “single to shortstop”…they are balls he gets to, in a non-error way, which wouldn’t happen with no range?).
I wish he would HIT fewer balls to shortstop, with runners on first…
The Tigers are not picking up Renteria’s option, short of E-Rent single-handedly carrying the team to the playoffs in the next 60 games and earning the World Series MVP award.
You can take that to the bank.
T Smith:
“Chief,
I think your local boulangerie may be serving up a bit too many poppys on your morning bagel”
Do poppyseeds have a laxative effect I’m wondering? By the way I think he’s right about the White Sox…
Chief:
“I think the White Sox crap the bed. Their pitching has been in the toilet for a few weeks now.”
“I think the White Sox crap the bed. Their pitching has been in the toilet for a few weeks now.”
I don’t get it. If your pitching is in the toilet, stay in the bathroom and crap there.
Oh, wait. I get it. You don’t want to crap on top of your pitching. Make sense. Especially when your pitching is “toast.” I suppose you can dry toast out somehow.
“The ham sandwich has yet to make an error, but on the other hand is last in the league in range factor.”
Some spicy mustard would give that ham sandwich legs. Then again, some well-applied hot ‘n’ spicy mustard might give Edgar legs, too. Tabasco might also work.
“You don’t want to crap on top of your pitching”
Unless it’s some kind of cable pay-per-view way to offset some of their salaries
I was just thinking… if the White Sox are gonna crap the bed, and the Tigers are going to trade Renteria (or was it Sheffield?) for a washing machine… see where I’m going with this? Yeah. 3-way swap.
Wait a second, hold on.
Are we talking smoked ham or glazed?
The pale sox pitching may crap the bed, or it may crap in a bee-line route to the toilet. Either way, as long as they score their seven runs a game, they should pick up enough Ws along the way to hire a personal nurse to clean it up. It may be just enough to stave off the Tigers playing at the top of their game.
But the real issue here isn’t the Whitesox. The Tigers need to win, and win convincingly here on out. Let’s start with tonight and talk some more again tomorrow.
“Unless it’s some kind of cable pay-per-view way to offset some of their salaries”
I’m thinking crap-per-view, a novel form of audience participation bound to revolutionize cable.
i have come to the conclusion Chief Monday isn’t actually this optimistic, but rather the mole-like black ops double agent commentator of an already existing commentator who was sick of getting crap for being so negative so he decided his revenge would be gaslighting the blog with psychotically sunny predictions.
Why wouldn’t they pick up Renteria’s option? He had a good April, then tanked for 3 months. He’s been playing hurt too.
He’s had a very good career and he’s still only 32 years old. Good shortstops are hard to come by.
If he finishes this season strong and we don’t pick up the option then he’ll get plenty of takers. The going rate for a Free Agent SS is about 4 years/$50 million for a guy with a track record like his.
Gametime can’t come too soon, I’m thinking. As for me, I am off to do more research into the ham sandwich particulars…
‘Are we talking smoked ham or glazed?”
That’s precisely what’s holding up the Renteria deal, Mark. It’s a sticking point. It is going to be spending time in the dugout with Leyland…
Then again, JL’s moves do kinda make your eyes glaze over after a while, too.
Sean,
I think Guillen tried the tabasco and it didn’t turn out so good. Couldn’t even bend over, some days.
“the mole-like black ops double agent commentator of an already existing commentator who was sick of getting crap for being so negative”
Just couldn’t live with the secret any more, huh, Stephen? Well, now we know, “Chief Stephen.”
Hey, what are you saying, Coleman?
The White Sox lost 7-0 yesterday. The pitching is gone. Now the hitting is going too.
Mark: Well, Carlos’s wife gave better reviews.
(Hoping you’ve seen that Curb episode)
And besides Chicago and Minneapolis could both be swallowed up by earthquakes. then we’d win by default. maybe.
The Curb episode with the chef with Tourette’s is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. Anyway, I was lamenting the fact that there haven’t been enough crap jokes on the site lately. Now they are flowing. Like….well, you know.
The White Sox average 5.82 r/g at home, and 4.21 r/g on the road. Apparently they are not the offensive machine they appear when they are not playing on their own little league field.
What really separates the Sox and Tigers is the record at home: The Sox are 35-16 at home while the Tigers are 29-22. They have virtually identical road records at 24-30.
I really think the Sox will crumble, it’s up to the Tigers to take advantage.
“He’s had a very good career and he’s still only 32 years old. Good shortstops are hard to come by.”
The problem is in the first sentence. That’s the precise age when SS start to switch positions because they can’t play there anymore.
It’s only a guess, but I think the most likely major move before the deadline would be trading Sheffield. OK, maybe that’s only if I was GM. But I think another team would be willing to take a chance on Sheffield catching fire. The Tigers themselves have certainly waited patiently enough for that.
I really don’t see Pudge, Rogers, Renteria, or even Robertson being traded. I don’t know who else could even possibly be on the table, other than… Thames?
Sadly Sean and Chris, I have not seen that CYE episode. So a perfectly funny joke was wasted on the likes of me.
Sorry ’bout that.
Because Renteria sucks.
Someone will pick up Renteria, yes, but I guarantee you — and I promise you — nobody will pay him $11 M in 2009. No one.
The division title is irrelevant. This Tigers team will crap-the-bed in the playoffs anyway with their current starters. This team has to be configured for a 3-5 year run at the World Championship. It is not, as currently configured. The window is closing on the sub-superstars Polanco/Guillen/Ordonez wrapped around budding superstars Cabrera/Granderson. A move has to be made in the next few days to prepare for 2009. We’ll have far less leverage over the winter.
We need three dominant pitchers. We have one. Porcello will be an excellent no. 3 or 4, not a no. 1 or 2, he doesn’t have the stuff. It’s the first thing he told the Tigers when he got drafted, that he lives around 91 mph NOT 95 mph. He wanted to be clear about that.
They need Verlander no. 1 and Mr. X as no. 2, then Porcello, Galarraga, and a sack o’ beans, or Robertson/Miner/ whoever. Mr. X needs to be traded for now, while the Tigers have playoff run leverage on another team. That is, while all these teams think they can make a run, they might give up Mr. X to get to the promised land.
The name of Mr. X, I think, is David Price. DD, Do what it takes!
For what it’s worth, I believe Boston is reponsible for paying Renteria’s option, should it be picked up. They are also looking for a shortstop. At first I didn’t think Epstein would be interested in another go-around with Renteria (given how awful he was the first time), but Boston fans may actually accept him over Julio Lugo, who they absolutely despise.
Also just stumbled across this bit of sickening news:
So, um, Gorkys is a cornerstone-type player now? Man, I know we needed a shortstop, but what did we give up!?!?
But then there’s this:
So if we could somehow turn that into Colby Rasmus, I could live with this trade.
Mark, the Tigers average 5.72 at home and 4.30 on the road. The runs allowed split is basicalyl even, though.
I’m not even going to correct that one. Basicalyl. I’ve discovered a new family of chemicals!
Seattle Mike
“Since April 14, when they fell to 2-10, they have a run differential of +72. That’s a good club–a pennant contending club.”
The problem with that is the consistency of the offense. It’s better recently, but for most of the season it was feast or famine. Blow-out wins and at least 9 shutout losses in the time span you indicate. Not the mark of a contender.
But Sean, you’re forgetting that the White Sox suck.
That’s really all I have any more. I can’t convince you people that the Sox are going to crumble (except for Chief, who needs no convincing).
So, it’s time for one of my predictions, Sean: the Sox will finish with no more than 86 wins (which implies a sub-.500 finish from here).
Whether the Tigers get to 87 or not is the question.
“So a perfectly funny joke was wasted on the likes of me.”
No, Mark. You got where I was going with it in general, that’s enough. If you ever see the episode “Porno Gil” (ha ha, that’s funny considering our use of that name), you’ll get the rest of the joke.
I’m back and I’m not sure what I missed but I should let you all know the Ham Sandwich is no longer on the table…
I’m down with the Sox winning only 86, Mark. And they do suck. On principle. I wish they’d suck more when they played the Tigers, though. I see the Twins passing the Sox.
Prediction #2, Sean:
Twins no more than 83 wins.
For kicks, prediction #3:
Indians finish ahead of the Royals.
I’m not exaclty out on a limb here, I know. But I’m not trying to make a splash or be controversial (like an editorial columnist would do), I’m trying to be correct. And that’s how I see it.
Palmcroft- I think you have completely failed to evaluate the 29 other teams and their future players.
The Tigers roster turnover will be on par with every other team in the majors.
Chief,
Well of course. Who the heck has time to completely “evaluate the 29 other teams and their future players,” except agoraphobic virgins who live in their Mom’s basements and work midnights at the 7-11, or Al Avila/David Chadd and gang.
What I looked for is a player who could be a peer to Verlander NEXT YEAR and anchor a World Championship staff along with Justin. There are not many of those guys who haven’t already popped at the major league level.
Tampa Bay is in a frenzy right now. They’ve never before been in a race. They need another stick. They might be crazy enough to trade Price.
The 2008 Tigers have shown us that they are not world championship caliber. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS. Beyond this fact, the playoffs are irrelevant; in fact, they could become a distraction to the front office.
“Indians finish ahead of the Royals.”
You take that back!
“Who the heck has time to completely “evaluate the 29 other teams and their future players,” except agoraphobic virgins who live in their Mom’s basements and work midnights at the 7-11, or Al Avila/David Chadd and gang.”
Mom’s basement! Ha! How delightfully original!
Sean C: “I’ve discovered a new family of chemicals!”
I did that in college, but it just takes me too long to recover nowadays….
Insults are cool, keep ’em coming. But can the Tigers win a championship without a second stud pitcher? It can happen, 88 Dodgers/06 Cardinals, etc. But the odds improve dramatically if they can acquire a no. 2, especially if they want to win more than one championship.
Right now, Rome is burning and Leyland can only piss into the flames with what he has been given. The trading deadline is not about ss or the bullpen, it’s about the rotation, it’s about making 2009-2011 count.
Ham Sandwich on the other hand…if you hear that I am becoming “huge” they aren’t speaking of popularity or anything of that nature…think of a young Brando perhaps, except the size of the old Brando…
yes…Ham Sandwich…
Palmcroft- The problem isn’t with the Tigers. The problem is that maybe you have no confidence in the Tigers.
Maybe you didn’t notice, but the Tigers have been the winningest team in baseball since June 7th. If they weren’t losing all these 1 run games lately, they’d probably be in 1st place right now.
If the bullpen settles down, particularly Zumaya/Rodney, then they’ll be able to handle those 1 run games 10x better.
.
Porcello may only end up being a 3, but I’m pretty sure that the Tigers knew about Porcello’s stuff and didn’t draft him based on word of mouth. They didn’t need him to tell them anything.
“I’ve discovered a new family of chemicals!”
I didn’t see this sentence in its original context, but there’s no way it could possibly sound as awesome as it does right now.
Billfer: “I’m pretty sure that the Tigers knew about Porcello’s stuff and didn’t draft him based on word of mouth.”
Actually I think it was something like this: “yessiree bob, I hear tell there’s a young strappin’ feller out yonder what throws a fastball right through a barn wall, and I a’swear right here sure as my middle name’s Ebeneezer we’re a gonna draft us that chap…”
Competitive baseball? The idea is to win the championship.
“We need three dominant pitchers. We have one. Porcello will be an excellent no. 3 or 4, not a no. 1 or 2, he doesn’t have the stuff.”
This might disagree with that assessment, along with every written word that has ever been published about the kid.
http://www.saberscouting.com/2008/04/04/rickporcelloreport/
If, If, if, if………..
Porcello argued, nay, pleaded, that the Tigers not draft him due to his awareness that he would never live up to their expectations. “Mr. Dombrowski,” he exclaimed, “I’m only a number 3! At best!”
It was all for naught.
BTW I would dispute Verlander as a “true” number one starter right now. “True” number one meaning he’d be the best starter on a playoff team. He still walks too many guys and seems to shrink in the big games more often than not. He’s the Tigers best starter by a mile, but there’s a slew of other guys in the league I’d rather have as my ace at this point.
Dave BW “I’m only a number 3! At best!”
You probably missed it, but this beats all the earlier talk of “number 1” and “number 2”
Porcello is a young kid, maybe he wanted to lower the bar and/or lower expectations. Even if he was living at 91-92 and touching the mid-90’s, he’s still only 19. He could become a no. 1 with his excellent mix and the increased velocity that might come with growing into his twenties. He could be fabulous in 2010 or 2011, who knows.
However, it seems obvious to me that the Tigers are not good enough to win it all this year. In addition, the window on the current supporting cast is closing. I contend that the trading deadline on Thursday is extremely important to the contention viability of this franchise as currently constituted.
When/If Porcello becomes a stud to bookend Verlander, the stars will certainly be aligned differently vis-a-vis their offense. Maybe DD will be ready. If DD is waiting for that to happen, 2008 and 2009 are almost certainly mail-in years where the Tigers management will try to reward fans with brief appearances in the playoffs; posturing with Bondo as a no. 2, giving interviews about his great “stuff” and “potential” to mask his solid .500 won/loss reality and lopsided dependence on the ligament strain commonly known as the “slider.”
Oh crap. Mark Teixeira was traded to the Angels.
Galarraga has been dominant all season. He had that perfect game for 7 innings his last start. That’s domination in my book.
Verlander is 7 -1 with a 3.22 in his last 8 starts. That’s Domination in my book.
Minor has given up 2 runs in his 2 starts since getting called up. He’s 2-0 with a 1.50 ERA as a starter. He could be that third dominating guy you want.
“However, it seems obvious to me that the Tigers are not good enough to win it all this year.”
Palmcroft,
Was it obvious the Cardinals were good enough at 83-79 to win it all in 2006? With one bona fide ace? Was it obvious the Rockies were good enough to run off 20 of 21 at one point and eventually get to the World Series? I would be careful with such absolute certainties, especially when there is still 2 months left in the season.
Also, the Angels get Teixiera from the Braves for Kotchmann and a minor leaguer.
Dave:
ESPN has already done some hard-hitting analysis of the trade:
“Mark Teixeira’s 2008 numbers are better than all of the Angels’ first basemen combined.”
Wow! One of the league’s better 1B is better than a platoon! I think ESPN has really hit on something here.
Chief,
Yup, things could work out great; that kinda stuff sometimes happens. It would be purely happenstance if the Tigers win a championship with Galarraga and Minor as nos. 2 and 3 and would almost certainly not be repeatable.
Given this team’s current hyper-reliance on offense, the DD plan seems to be to bludgeon the opponent into submission — as long as the opponent is not sporting a stud like Paul Byrd.
If you construct a plan for baseball excellence, an oustanding starting staff must be the centerpiece. Such a staff is nowhere to be found on the Tigers roster at present, or in the planning of the current management. To get there, offense must be sacrificed…by the trading deadline.
opps, Verlander is 6-1 in last 9 starts.
I see Dave BW has moved from #3 to #2…
meanwhile palmcroft having brought up the bar, I am reminded of some unfinished research there, if I may excuse myself for a moment
BTW, since beer almost equals baseball, Dogfish Head is at Ashley’s Westland strutting their stuff, and I assume the game will be on…Free beer-by-sample. With my current no. 2, the 90-minute imperial ipa.
Also: “Jose Guillen Wants Out of KC”
Who could have seen this coming.
i only wish jimmy gobble wasn’t hurt. he’s been the biggest tiger difference maker of the year.
Any discussion on Rick Porcello should immediately include the fact that his best strikeout pitch is not being used. His curveball is something that he’s not using in High-A ball as a 19 year old and I’m assuming that’s by the club’s discretion. This is not uncommon, he’s working on his Slider and Change instead. When he gets his curve back next year he’ll be a monster ground ball machine with 20-25% K Rate — those type pitchers aren’t No. 3 starters. Those are the special ones. Think Roy Halladay.
FARNSWORTH?????