Comments on: Todd Jones out as closer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:11:17 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Tim D http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99600 Tim D Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:43:19 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99600 How can you tell if Thames is better off as a part timer than as a regular if you never give him a chance at regular play? How can you tell if Thames is better off as a part timer than as a regular if you never give him a chance at regular play?

]]> By: stephen http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99515 stephen Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:14:30 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99515 Holy crap, Pudge is only 416 hits away from 3,000. If he catches until he's 40 it's actually doable. That's insane for a catcher. Holy crap, Pudge is only 416 hits away from 3,000. If he catches until he’s 40 it’s actually doable.
That’s insane for a catcher.

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99514 Chris in Dallas Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:14:10 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99514 I could see two scenarios. One, you play Marcus everyday and he ends up with 28 HR. Two, you play Marcus 4 days a week and he ends up with 33 HR. Some guys are just better when you use them in a limited role, and I think he's one of those guys. I could see two scenarios. One, you play Marcus everyday and he ends up with 28 HR. Two, you play Marcus 4 days a week and he ends up with 33 HR. Some guys are just better when you use them in a limited role, and I think he’s one of those guys.

]]> By: Joel in Seattle http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99512 Joel in Seattle Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:08:24 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99512 Tim: Dead on. He's earned his keep this season a lot more than Sheff has. Put him out there, let him do his thing. If he ends up disappointing, he's one more of a dozen on this team. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. What I see actually happening is him being traded to another team and giving them good production the Tigers could use at a ridiculously low salary, while the Tigers get a washed-up poo-poo platter reliever in exchange. Tim: Dead on. He’s earned his keep this season a lot more than Sheff has. Put him out there, let him do his thing. If he ends up disappointing, he’s one more of a dozen on this team. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

What I see actually happening is him being traded to another team and giving them good production the Tigers could use at a ridiculously low salary, while the Tigers get a washed-up poo-poo platter reliever in exchange.

]]> By: Mark in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99511 Mark in Chicago Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:02:10 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99511 One could live with Marcus hitting in the .240 range if he drew enough walks to have a high OBP, given his high SLG (think Adam Dunn). Since he does not hit for average OR draw a lot of walks, his value is dimished somewhat. According to baseball-reference, his 162 game averages would be: 245/309/511 .245 avg, 33 hr, 25 2b, 131 so, 41 bb That 820 OPS comes out to a 111 OPS+, so Marcus is about 10% better than league average. He's also 31 years old and probably at (or just past) his peak. Defensively, Marcus generally catches what he gets to, but has about average range. Given that he is still arbitration eligible, he still makes less than $1 million per, so there's no pressure to play a youngster over an expensive veteran. He's no All-Star, but probably an adequate everyday LF. One could live with Marcus hitting in the .240 range if he drew enough walks to have a high OBP, given his high SLG (think Adam Dunn). Since he does not hit for average OR draw a lot of walks, his value is dimished somewhat.

According to baseball-reference, his 162 game averages would be:

245/309/511

.245 avg, 33 hr, 25 2b, 131 so, 41 bb

That 820 OPS comes out to a 111 OPS+, so Marcus is about 10% better than league average. He’s also 31 years old and probably at (or just past) his peak.

Defensively, Marcus generally catches what he gets to, but has about average range. Given that he is still arbitration eligible, he still makes less than $1 million per, so there’s no pressure to play a youngster over an expensive veteran. He’s no All-Star, but probably an adequate everyday LF.

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99510 Chris in Dallas Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:58:30 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99510 Look at Thames 1st/2nd half splits sometime. He performs well enough for the first 150 or so AB's before falling off a cliff. '06: 1st half OPS 1.006 (202 AB), 2nd half OPS .709 (146 AB). '07: 1st half OPS .810 (131 AB), 2nd half OPS .744 (138 AB). It seems he'll settle into a groove for a while, but once the league makes an adjustment, he doesn't adjust back. One. Trick. Pony. Look at Thames 1st/2nd half splits sometime. He performs well enough for the first 150 or so AB’s before falling off a cliff. ‘06: 1st half OPS 1.006 (202 AB), 2nd half OPS .709 (146 AB). ‘07: 1st half OPS .810 (131 AB), 2nd half OPS .744 (138 AB). It seems he’ll settle into a groove for a while, but once the league makes an adjustment, he doesn’t adjust back. One. Trick. Pony.

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99509 Chris in Dallas Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:52:29 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99509 It's actually the Midland Rockhounds. Albuquerque has the Isotopes. I believe they nicked that from the Simpsons. It’s actually the Midland Rockhounds. Albuquerque has the Isotopes. I believe they nicked that from the Simpsons.

]]> By: Andre in Chi http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99507 Andre in Chi Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:43:52 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99507 Tim - I think the numbers vs playing time question is of the 'chicken or the egg' variety. It could just as well be that he's never shown enough to warrant everyday status. Thames hits mistakes VERY well, but honestly he doesn't seem to have much of an eye at the plate. I agree with Sean C, his ability to consistently hit those mistakes out of the park make him an asset...but I don't see him going north of .250 if given full time duties. The fact that he's leading the team in HRs with about half the ABs though screams giving the guy more playing time...even if it likely comes with a normalization of his numbers. Tim –

I think the numbers vs playing time question is of the ‘chicken or the egg’ variety. It could just as well be that he’s never shown enough to warrant everyday status. Thames hits mistakes VERY well, but honestly he doesn’t seem to have much of an eye at the plate.

I agree with Sean C, his ability to consistently hit those mistakes out of the park make him an asset…but I don’t see him going north of .250 if given full time duties. The fact that he’s leading the team in HRs with about half the ABs though screams giving the guy more playing time…even if it likely comes with a normalization of his numbers.

]]> By: Ken in Las Vegas (formerly Cincinnati) http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99505 Ken in Las Vegas (formerly Cincinnati) Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:23:14 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99505 "Hey, did “Midland Isotopes” come from that movie? That has to be the best team name I’ve ever heard." That sounds right, Sean. I'm not sure about a lot, but there are a few things I am sure about. 1. Don't trade Pudge. We need him in the World Series, right Cheif Monday? 2. Trade Sheffield for anything to insure Thames and Joyce play everyday. 3. Clay Rapada should be on our staff right now. 4. Rodney is an upgrade at closer. He has yet to prove us otherwise, as he has been great in this role previously. For some reason we think that Rodney may lack the mental toughness because he forgets how to wear a hat. Insiders will actually tell you that he usually trys to enter the game wearing a stove pot before someone catches him and makes the switch. He may be insane in the membrane, but maybe that's exactly what a closer needs. Look at half of the others around the league. “Hey, did “Midland Isotopes” come from that movie? That has to be the best team name I’ve ever heard.”

That sounds right, Sean.

I’m not sure about a lot, but there are a few things I am sure about.

1. Don’t trade Pudge. We need him in the World Series, right Cheif Monday?
2. Trade Sheffield for anything to insure Thames and Joyce play everyday.
3. Clay Rapada should be on our staff right now.
4. Rodney is an upgrade at closer. He has yet to prove us otherwise, as he has been great in this role previously. For some reason we think that Rodney may lack the mental toughness because he forgets how to wear a hat. Insiders will actually tell you that he usually trys to enter the game wearing a stove pot before someone catches him and makes the switch. He may be insane in the membrane, but maybe that’s exactly what a closer needs. Look at half of the others around the league.

]]> By: West Coast Tiger http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99504 West Coast Tiger Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:22:12 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99504 Regarding Pudge, I am talking off the cuff here and haven't done my research. That being said If I did, I would guess that he is still one of the best as far as fewest stolen bases against. Fewest attempted against etc. He is a focused guy. As for his swinging at the slider and breaking ball away and in the dirt. His bat isn't as quick as in the past and I think he is a split early at pulling the trigger(Sheff as well). He has upped his focus and effort in the box the last month. There might be one or two other catchers I would want more than Pudge but thats about it. I think he can play at the top level for a few more years. I love what he brings to the Tigers. Regarding Pudge, I am talking off the cuff here and haven’t done my research. That being said If I did, I would guess that he is still one of the best as far as fewest stolen bases against. Fewest attempted against etc. He is a focused guy. As for his swinging at the slider and breaking ball away and in the dirt. His bat isn’t as quick as in the past and I think he is a split early at pulling the trigger(Sheff as well). He has upped his focus and effort in the box the last month. There might be one or two other catchers I would want more than Pudge but thats about it. I think he can play at the top level for a few more years. I love what he brings to the Tigers.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99503 Sean C. in Illinois Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:14:27 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99503 Thames: I could live with a .240 LF/DH like him full-time. Honest. Could have lived with Monroe, too, had he learned to hit just a bit better. Not everyone has to bat .300. Not everyone has the make the pitcher pay for the mistake potential of Thames, either. Thames: I could live with a .240 LF/DH like him full-time. Honest. Could have lived with Monroe, too, had he learned to hit just a bit better. Not everyone has to bat .300. Not everyone has the make the pitcher pay for the mistake potential of Thames, either.

]]> By: Mark in Chicago http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99502 Mark in Chicago Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:09:58 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99502 Pudge has been surprisingly good this year, I think the Sox broadcast showed him hitting something like .389 over the last month. The power is gone, but he is taking more walks and actually has his OBP near league average. His is still prone to lapses where he swings at a slider two feet outside in the dirt or fails to get the glove down to block a pitch in the dirt, but in all, it's been a good year for pudge. I can live with a league average player at that position, especially considering what our options are at this point. Pudge has been surprisingly good this year, I think the Sox broadcast showed him hitting something like .389 over the last month. The power is gone, but he is taking more walks and actually has his OBP near league average. His is still prone to lapses where he swings at a slider two feet outside in the dirt or fails to get the glove down to block a pitch in the dirt, but in all, it’s been a good year for pudge.

I can live with a league average player at that position, especially considering what our options are at this point.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99501 Sean C. in Illinois Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:09:12 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99501 "Didn’t see that coming." [Pudge] Totally. Me either. “Didn’t see that coming.” [Pudge]

Totally. Me either.

]]> By: Tim D http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99500 Tim D Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:08:22 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99500 Re Thames: When you read his numbers and say he's only a .245 hitter, he won't hit with as much power if he played all the time, etc, you are missing the point. HE HAS NEVER HAD AN EVERYDAY JOB IN THE MAJORS. I doubt he has ever started more than 10 games in a row. In Toledo he had long stretches of everyday play where he hit like Hank Greenberg. OPS north of 1100, batting average .330 plus. He will never do that in the bigs, but given 150 starts he would hit 40 HR, would drive in 100, would likely improve his K/BB rate and, I would wager, keep his average in the .250 to .275 range. He could easily rack up a .950 OPS. He's decent enough on defense. Let the guy play. What do we have to lose? Re Thames: When you read his numbers and say he’s only a .245 hitter, he won’t hit with as much power if he played all the time, etc, you are missing the point. HE HAS NEVER HAD AN EVERYDAY JOB IN THE MAJORS. I doubt he has ever started more than 10 games in a row. In Toledo he had long stretches of everyday play where he hit like Hank Greenberg. OPS north of 1100, batting average .330 plus. He will never do that in the bigs, but given 150 starts he would hit 40 HR, would drive in 100, would likely improve his K/BB rate and, I would wager, keep his average in the .250 to .275 range. He could easily rack up a .950 OPS. He’s decent enough on defense. Let the guy play. What do we have to lose?

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99499 Sean C. in Illinois Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:07:53 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/todd-jones-out-as-closer/#comment-99499 Ken, I've shopped that way, but it was long ago. Apropos of nothing, I think Orlando Cabrera could be the solution to the SS problem, and it might only take Porcello and Strieby to get him. Hey, did "Midland Isotopes" come from that movie? That has to be the best team name I've ever heard. Ken, I’ve shopped that way, but it was long ago. Apropos of nothing, I think Orlando Cabrera could be the solution to the SS problem, and it might only take Porcello and Strieby to get him.

Hey, did “Midland Isotopes” come from that movie? That has to be the best team name I’ve ever heard.

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