Comments on: Is there hope for Renteria? http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:31:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Mark P http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97843 Mark P Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:56:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97843 Time to trade for Izturis and Herndon from the Angels. Maybe for Guillen and Rodney. Then throw in G. Anderson. http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=David%20Herndon&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=458589 http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/I/Maicer-Izturis.shtml Time to trade for Izturis and Herndon from the Angels. Maybe for Guillen and Rodney. Then throw in G. Anderson.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.....pid=458589

http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....uris.shtml

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97588 Chris in Dallas Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:49:06 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97588 Don't look now, but Renteria is hitting .667 since the All Star Break. We'll continue to monitor this trend as it develops. Don’t look now, but Renteria is hitting .667 since the All Star Break. We’ll continue to monitor this trend as it develops.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97587 Sean C. in Illinois Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:35:08 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97587 Billfer Understood. I enjoyed your timely analysis on Renteria, and my comment was not a critique of any part of it. Rather, I took an example from it to express my view (in response to another exchange) that statistics are <i>not</i> meaningless, but some are more meaningful than others. As for Edgar, in numbers I can see both the hope and the despair. I don't have a "good feeling" about Renteria, so my comments are often negative, but I'm more balanced when it comes to reasoned analysis, as a number of my posts above show. Billfer

Understood. I enjoyed your timely analysis on Renteria, and my comment was not a critique of any part of it. Rather, I took an example from it to express my view (in response to another exchange) that statistics are not meaningless, but some are more meaningful than others.

As for Edgar, in numbers I can see both the hope and the despair. I don’t have a “good feeling” about Renteria, so my comments are often negative, but I’m more balanced when it comes to reasoned analysis, as a number of my posts above show.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97553 billfer Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:06:06 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97553 <blockquote>I don’t want to say numbers are meaningless or speak for Paul, but to the particular example above I would respond that it doesn’t mean Renteria is any less lousy at the plate than he has been. Reason? That PrOPS hasn’t translated into real, actual, consistent production or done much to help the Tigers win. He could continue to put up “good PrOPS” and still stink, still hurt the team with his presence in the lineup. Could. I also say “probably will” and “hope not.”</blockquote> I'm not arguing that Renteria has been good. His production has hurt the team. The point is that the way he's hit the ball hasn't changed fundamentally as in past seasons. It's reason for hope in the second half. You're right in that he could continue to put up decent line drive rates and still not see it translated into production. Or he could stop hitting line drives and his PrOPS could catch up to his actual OPS. He is pretty damn slow so he might not be able to beat out hits or take extra bases like he used to which is something that won't correct itself. But the fact that he hasn't become an infield pop-out machine and he can still hit the ball on the nose leaves me encouraged going forward.

I don’t want to say numbers are meaningless or speak for Paul, but to the particular example above I would respond that it doesn’t mean Renteria is any less lousy at the plate than he has been. Reason? That PrOPS hasn’t translated into real, actual, consistent production or done much to help the Tigers win. He could continue to put up “good PrOPS” and still stink, still hurt the team with his presence in the lineup. Could. I also say “probably will” and “hope not.”

I’m not arguing that Renteria has been good. His production has hurt the team. The point is that the way he’s hit the ball hasn’t changed fundamentally as in past seasons. It’s reason for hope in the second half.

You’re right in that he could continue to put up decent line drive rates and still not see it translated into production. Or he could stop hitting line drives and his PrOPS could catch up to his actual OPS. He is pretty damn slow so he might not be able to beat out hits or take extra bases like he used to which is something that won’t correct itself. But the fact that he hasn’t become an infield pop-out machine and he can still hit the ball on the nose leaves me encouraged going forward.

]]> By: ron http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97498 ron Fri, 18 Jul 2008 01:11:17 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97498 Stats are only important for individual achievements such as A rod whose guarantees no World Series for any team he plays with. It's a team game. Derek Jeter could be having his best season playing ss for the Tigers and they still could be playing .500 ball. Stats are only important for individual achievements such as A rod whose guarantees no World Series for any team he plays with. It’s a team game. Derek Jeter could be having his best season playing ss for the Tigers and they still could be playing .500 ball.

]]> By: Vince in MN http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97462 Vince in MN Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:05:59 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97462 Coleman waxing poetic, preceded by a Thomas Dolby lyric. I like. Coleman waxing poetic, preceded by a Thomas Dolby lyric. I like.

]]> By: Coleman http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97461 Coleman Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:58:09 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97461 Actually I was hoping for some insight on the midseason Opportunity Ratios from some of the "it's the batting order, stupid" guys that held sway for a while--in other words, are Renteria's problems magnified by batting in the wrong part of the lineup? I don't remember who they were, but I imagine they've shrugged their shoulders and given up on understanding the mind of Leyland; that, or, faces painted Joker-like, they have no time to spare from dancing in leotards 'round the ruins of Tiger Stadium, chanting sonnets to the full moon. Actually I was hoping for some insight on the midseason Opportunity Ratios from some of the “it’s the batting order, stupid” guys that held sway for a while–in other words, are Renteria’s problems magnified by batting in the wrong part of the lineup?

I don’t remember who they were, but I imagine they’ve shrugged their shoulders and given up on understanding the mind of Leyland; that, or, faces painted Joker-like, they have no time to spare from dancing in leotards ’round the ruins of Tiger Stadium, chanting sonnets to the full moon.

]]> By: Vince in MN http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97460 Vince in MN Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:45:28 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97460 The L Ron Hubbard thing is Scientology. Scientism has several definitions, but the one I was thinking of (with a gentle jab at our use of statistics today) is best described (according to Wikipedia) as a form of dogma: "In essence, scientism sees science as the absolute and only justifiable access to the truth." The L Ron Hubbard thing is Scientology.

Scientism has several definitions, but the one I was thinking of (with a gentle jab at our use of statistics today) is best described (according to Wikipedia) as a form of dogma: “In essence, scientism sees science as the absolute and only justifiable access to the truth.”

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97459 Chris in Dallas Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:33:28 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97459 Pretty interesting feature on Joel Zumaya from ESPN the Mag: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3490998 Pretty interesting feature on Joel Zumaya from ESPN the Mag:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3490998

]]> By: Coleman http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97458 Coleman Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:29:23 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/07/is-there-hope-for-renteria/#comment-97458 Prediction: strangely enough, Leyland will look back at some point and explain his trust in Renteria thus: "he blinded me with science." Prediction: strangely enough, Leyland will look back at some point and explain his trust in Renteria thus: “he blinded me with science.”

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