Comments on: As the Trade Winds Blow

By: Sean C. in Illinois

Sean C. in Illinois — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:50:13 +0000

I’m sorry, I can’t hold out any longer.

Ken in Vegas – How are the Tigers doing so far? I don’t need the exact score, just a hint. Are they still in the game? I’m not tuning in later if they’re down by 7 already.

By: Chris in Dallas

Chris in Dallas — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:18:15 +0000

rings: I know you’re a Sheffield-hater and all, which is fine. There’s been ample reasons for that in all honesty. He’s still as disciplined as always though. He’s got a .110 split between his BA/OBP in ‘08, which basically mirrors his .101 career split. That works out to a walk every 7.5 PA in ‘08 vs. a walk every 7.2 PA in his career. What’s more troubling is that he’s K’d 49 times vs. 34 BB this year. Career-wise, that’s the opposite of what he normally does. Anyhoo, I’ll take this brief surge in his offense and hope that it leads to better things over the next 61 games.

By: Chris in Dallas

Chris in Dallas — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:16:52 +0000

I for one questioned the logic of the Renteria move from .003 seconds after it was announced. Simply put, he was a downgrade over Carlos Guillen defensively and obviously a much worse hitter (excluding his aberrant ‘07). Of course, Guillen was out as SS at that point. That was another dumb-ish move. They created an unnecessary hole there. It would’ve been easier to grab a productive 1B than SS. Sure Gorilla’s Uncle had a crappy ‘07 defensively if you only look at errors, but the bottom line is that he graded better than Renteria in most aspects with the glove.

By: Kyle J

Kyle J — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:40:43 +0000

Trading Sheffield for a token player and eating most of his salary for the next year and a half seems like a good way to (1) free up at bats for Joyce/Thames and (2) save face for all parties involved.

The tough part is finding a team that wants a DH-only who hasn’t hit a lick for a full season, even for free

By: Chief Monday

Chief Monday — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:36:04 +0000

The Tigers are fortunate that we really don’t need Renteria or Sheffield. Come World Series, I bet both of these guys will be important to the team though. Our depth, is what makes us a great team. We have back-ups at every position that deserve to play everyday. Now that most of our players are healthy and have heated up, we’re just blowing most teams away.

By: Mark in Chicago

Mark in Chicago — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:19:27 +0000

I agree with billfer on the Renteria trade. It had to be done, there were no internal solutions available. As a reminder, the White Sox traded an established starting pitcher who is good for 200 or so innings of slightly better than league average performance for Orlando Cabrera.

To clarify: not a good thing.

By: billfer

billfer — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:10:22 +0000

Last year’s trade for Rentaria was an example of how bad decisions are made when a GM is putting needless pressure on himself to get that position filled.

I couldn’t disagree more. The Tigers had to find a shortstop last year. Dombrowski went out and got what he felt to be the best shortstop available. I wasn’t a fan of the price that had to be paid, but there were very few people who didn’t acknowledge that the team had upgraded a position (actually 2 positions) of need. That Renteria has completely sucked changes everything, but I still don’t question the decision to add Renteria.

By: Kevin in Austin

Kevin in Austin — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:03:39 +0000

Ken in LV, genius post.

By: Ken in Las Vegas (formerly Cincinnati)

Ken in Las Vegas (formerly Cincinnati) — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:55:07 +0000

Earlier I made a joke about trading Sheffield for a washing machine, but the more I think about it the more I like it. It would be nice to get something out of a Sheffield trade besides the dubious honor of eating part of his contract, but even if we got nothing at all I think it would probably benefit us simply because it would guarantee that our best line-up takes the field each day. Thames and Joyce would play every game. I mean these two guys are hitting more homeruns per AB than anybody else in the league! Isn’t that what dreams are made of? I’m not expecting Joyce to keep up the pace, but he certainly will hit for a better average over the remainder of the season than Sheff if I was a betting man, and I am. (reaches for credit card.) We just don’t have the time for Jimmy to be tucking Gary into bed every night and reading him a bedtime story of how the old veteran turns it around and saves the day. I mean, sure, Jimmy tells the story well (he uses funny voices) but let’s put our best product out there down the stretch and take this division. Cue Al Pacino speach from Every Given Sunday. “That’s the difference between LIVIN and DYIN, between HEAVEN and HELL!!!” Oh boy, now I’m pumped for this series, and luckily for me due to the time zones, I get to watch it 2-3 hours before most of you all. Don’t worry I won’t tell you what happens.

By: T Smith

T Smith — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:51:30 +0000

The Sheffield situation is an enigma.

The rings argument is sound enough — but at the same time there is no reason to believe Joyce/Thames et. al won’t fall back down to earth a bit in production once they get more at bats, and once the league figures them out. Some pitchers are already making successful adjustments on Thames — whether Thames can make counter-adjustments of his own remains unknown at this point.

If you can get something the Tigers need in the next 61 games (starting pitching and/or solid relief) for a Sheffield deal, I would say by all means make it happen. (However, how realistic is that?) But I’m not so sure you deal Sheff now for, say, a SS stop gap or for just anybody, unless the strategy of the move is specifically to have some of the younger guys get more ABs. But even if that’s the strategy, you don’t need to trade Sheffield now for that to happen. And if you ride it out with Sheff and he continues to come around, it improves his trade value in the offseason, if that’s what the club is looking to do in 2009.

I personally think he has a month or two of some hot-streaks left in him. Now would be an auspicious time for the club to cash in on overdue production. Amid an uphill run, It’s certainly a gamble to test that theory, yes. But it’s a gamble I think we can take with the other guys in the wings waiting for a shot at the DH job.

Hot-streaks aside, whether Sheff is “washed up” or not, is another question. Even so, I don’t think players simply fall off a cliff and become “washed up.” Rather, hot streaks become shorter, fewer, and more far inbetween, whereas slumps become more prolonged. I’m not opposed to risk dealing Sheff in 2009, but I certainly don’t want to see a trade for Sheff now unless it returns something that is going to immediately help this team win the Central in 2008.

By: Mark in Chicago

Mark in Chicago — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:35:30 +0000

Roy Halladay allegedly available. He apparently told management in Toronto that he wanted out, and they quietly asked around in St. Louis and the Dodgers. Too bad we don’t have the prospects to get THAT deal done. Yikes.

I think Sheff is going to have a very good series against the Sox and a great finish overall. No reason, it’s just a crazy prediction.

By: Andre in Chi

Andre in Chi — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:26:22 +0000

If the Tigers are saying that Pudge is unavailable, its because they view keeping him behind the plate as necessary to a push. If we’re keeping him at C, keeping Guillen at 3rd and looking for a replacement for Renteria at SS…seems odd to me that Inge isn’t mentioned more (assuming that Santiago isn’t the answer and SS not being about hitting).

By: T Smith

T Smith — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:13:03 +0000

What Chris Y said.

No knee-jerk SS deals, please.

By: rings

rings — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:11:56 +0000

Chris…I’ll disagree with your sentiments on Sheffield. The fact is he drew walks throughout his career because oppenents had fear of him. That is no longer the case.
He’s has 9 walks in his last 24 games, since returning from DL, and 3 of those were in one game. On the other hand, during his last 0-5, 2K, game on Tuesday, he struck out in one appearance w/o seeing a single pitch in the strike zone. He hit another fly ball on a ball letter high. He also swung though or fouled off numerous offerings in the middle of the plate. Point is, in my view, he’s really not that particularly selective (I’d be interested if anyone can find his swing % on balls in the zone vs. average), rather his high walk total was a product of opponents formerly-careful approach to him.

Overall, he’s “washed up,” to use common parlance, and many of us argued that point when we acquired him. Again, a few “hot” months aside, he has not been very productive since ‘05, and he’s regularly injured. Worse, he’s taking ABs from more productive players because of his contract and attitude. I’d say we’d be better off without him and if we can acquire any help by dealing him, I’d be for it.

By: Chris Y.

Chris Y. — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:38:41 +0000

“If the Tigers fall short this year, it’s not going to be because they didn’t have Jack Wilson manning SS.”

Exactly. And not because Jack has a very average BA, 0 HR and 2 SB in around 200 AB. SS is mostly about minimizing errors, maximizing chances and putouts. The bat comes later.

Consider SS from some of the best AL teams:

Erick Aybar
Jason Bartlett
Julio Lugo (though Lowrie makes this interesting)
Brandon Harris
Orlando Cabrera

The NL certainly has the AL beat on SS depth, and none of the names above strike fear with the bat. You don’t need a slugging SS to win, but it really helps to have one that fields.

I say go with Santiago unless Renteria somehow stops falling over the plate every single time he swings through a BP fastball. But Santiago is the better defender, hands down. And, right now, a better batter too.