Comments on: WTF Tigers http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:59:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88786 Sean C. in Illinois Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:23:28 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88786 "This is the team they have, and largely the team they’ll have next year as well." Leaving aside all the back and forth from Toledo guys, I see only the following players starting 2009 with Detroit: Verlander Bonderman Willis Galaragga Dolsi Lopez Rapada Zumaya Cabrera Polanco Ordonez Granderson Guillen “This is the team they have, and largely the team they’ll have next year as well.”

Leaving aside all the back and forth from Toledo guys, I see only the following players starting 2009 with Detroit:

Verlander
Bonderman
Willis
Galaragga
Dolsi
Lopez
Rapada
Zumaya
Cabrera
Polanco
Ordonez
Granderson
Guillen

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88781 Sean C. in Illinois Sat, 07 Jun 2008 04:54:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88781 Awesome, Dave. But you're leaving out Rabelo, not to mention Trahern and Maybin. So your results are quite skewed. Nice try, spin doctor. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Awesome, Dave.

But you’re leaving out Rabelo, not to mention Trahern and Maybin. So your results are quite skewed. Nice try, spin doctor.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

]]> By: Dave BW http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88654 Dave BW Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:22:24 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88654 "Oh yea. And the Marlins are really regretting that trade….. Jeez!" VORP for Cabrera trade players, 2008: MARLINS Andrew Miller (probably the best pitcher of all time): -3.7 Eulogio de la Cruz (Zumaya Jr more than likely): -.2 Burke Badenhop (he could have been our ace this year): -7 TOTAL: -10.9 TIGERS Miguel Cabrera (who sucks and is a bust): 10.4 Dontrelle Willis (who is horrible and totally lame): 1 TOTAL: 11.4 That's a 20 VORP difference -- even with Cabrera slumping. Essentially, so far the trade has netted us the equivalent of another Magglio Ordonez. “Oh yea. And the Marlins are really regretting that trade….. Jeez!”

VORP for Cabrera trade players, 2008:

MARLINS
Andrew Miller (probably the best pitcher of all time):
-3.7
Eulogio de la Cruz (Zumaya Jr more than likely):
-.2
Burke Badenhop (he could have been our ace this year):
-7

TOTAL: -10.9

TIGERS
Miguel Cabrera (who sucks and is a bust):
10.4
Dontrelle Willis (who is horrible and totally lame):
1
TOTAL: 11.4

That’s a 20 VORP difference — even with Cabrera slumping. Essentially, so far the trade has netted us the equivalent of another Magglio Ordonez.

]]> By: Ken from Cincinnati http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88650 Ken from Cincinnati Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:34:20 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88650 Carolyn, I do indeed concede that Cabrera will eventually be hitting .320. I guess I was simply using "overrated preseason" to also include performing below expectations at this point. With every player we either had expectations that were unrealistic considering career history or age factors, or the player is performing well below the realistic expecations we had. I'll be more concise next time. Well...probably not. Anyone going to the game tonight? I'm traveling through Michigan and thought I would get a couple games in along with some poker play at MGM. While I've been to Comerica before, what do you think the best seat value is if I'm looking to be economically frugal. Also, what's a good place to "tailgate" or grab a few beers before the game. I can only remember the Hockey Town USA and Johnny Rockets, which I know doesn't have brews. Carolyn, I do indeed concede that Cabrera will eventually be hitting .320. I guess I was simply using “overrated preseason” to also include performing below expectations at this point. With every player we either had expectations that were unrealistic considering career history or age factors, or the player is performing well below the realistic expecations we had. I’ll be more concise next time. Well…probably not.

Anyone going to the game tonight? I’m traveling through Michigan and thought I would get a couple games in along with some poker play at MGM. While I’ve been to Comerica before, what do you think the best seat value is if I’m looking to be economically frugal. Also, what’s a good place to “tailgate” or grab a few beers before the game. I can only remember the Hockey Town USA and Johnny Rockets, which I know doesn’t have brews.

]]> By: Chris http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88649 Chris Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:11:42 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88649 "Chris used to work for the Marlins. He was the one who originally suggested dealing Cabrera." Oh yea. And the Marlins are really regretting that trade..... Jeez! “Chris used to work for the Marlins. He was the one who originally suggested dealing Cabrera.”

Oh yea. And the Marlins are really regretting that trade….. Jeez!

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88648 Kyle J Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:40:05 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88648 I'll second that motion, T Smith. These next 6 against the Indians and White Sox may be the final stand for this team. Win 4-5 of those games and you close the gaps in the standings to a reasonable number. Lose 4-5 of them and I think we really have to write the season off. I’ll second that motion, T Smith.

These next 6 against the Indians and White Sox may be the final stand for this team. Win 4-5 of those games and you close the gaps in the standings to a reasonable number. Lose 4-5 of them and I think we really have to write the season off.

]]> By: T Smith http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88647 T Smith Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:33:28 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88647 I've got an idea. Let's go on something like a 10 game wining streak (starting tonight), and then maybe an 18-4 run so this entire discussion becomes mute. Is that too much to ask? I’ve got an idea. Let’s go on something like a 10 game wining streak (starting tonight), and then maybe an 18-4 run so this entire discussion becomes mute.

Is that too much to ask?

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88646 Sean C. in Illinois Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:23:05 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88646 Billfer What about Sheffield? Is Thames really back next year if he doesn't get a clear shot at LF in 2008 or does and disappoints? Same (type) question about Santiago. Is Inge the catcher in 2009? Is trading him still unworkable or now simply off the table altogether? Just an opinion, and hardly an expert one, but I see less of this team still together in 2009 than you do. Billfer

What about Sheffield?

Is Thames really back next year if he doesn’t get a clear shot at LF in 2008 or does and disappoints? Same (type) question about Santiago.

Is Inge the catcher in 2009? Is trading him still unworkable or now simply off the table altogether?

Just an opinion, and hardly an expert one, but I see less of this team still together in 2009 than you do.

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88645 Kyle J Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:20:55 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88645 Random note on Pudge: Noticed on one my son's baseball cards his career BA coming into the season was .303. It's now at .301. Will probably drop below .300 by the end of the season. That's a shame. However bad he may look at the plate now, we're still talking about someone in the conversation for greatest player ever at his position. Agree with Billfer that offering him arbitration makes a lot of sense. If you can get him for a price tag reflecting roughly what he is now--a very good defensive catcher who's barely a replacement-level hitter--I think you do it, since there's no obvious replacement besides Inge and he may be your starting third baseman again. Random note on Pudge: Noticed on one my son’s baseball cards his career BA coming into the season was .303. It’s now at .301. Will probably drop below .300 by the end of the season. That’s a shame. However bad he may look at the plate now, we’re still talking about someone in the conversation for greatest player ever at his position.

Agree with Billfer that offering him arbitration makes a lot of sense. If you can get him for a price tag reflecting roughly what he is now–a very good defensive catcher who’s barely a replacement-level hitter–I think you do it, since there’s no obvious replacement besides Inge and he may be your starting third baseman again.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88644 billfer Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:07:14 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88644 Renteria, Pudge, and Rogers are the ones most likely not to be back. Renteria has an option but is essentially in a contract year. I wouldn't expect the Tigers to actively resign Pudge, but it wouldn't surprise me if they offered him arbitration. He'd still be a type A free agent meaning they would get draft pick compensation. Worst case is they get him for one more year at a contract that is much more affordable than this year. Roberston is tradeable but I don't know they'd do it given the lack of big league ready pitching in the system. Renteria, Pudge, and Rogers are the ones most likely not to be back. Renteria has an option but is essentially in a contract year.

I wouldn’t expect the Tigers to actively resign Pudge, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they offered him arbitration. He’d still be a type A free agent meaning they would get draft pick compensation. Worst case is they get him for one more year at a contract that is much more affordable than this year.

Roberston is tradeable but I don’t know they’d do it given the lack of big league ready pitching in the system.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88643 Sean C. in Illinois Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:06:14 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88643 Oh - maybe you were talking about Pudge. Duh. Oh – maybe you were talking about Pudge. Duh.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88642 Sean C. in Illinois Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:03:16 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88642 He Who Does Not Walk! That is excellent. It's really got a double-meaning thing happening - not sure if that was intentional. You know, like, a supernatural-type guy wouldn't actually walk, just sort of glide mysteriously. Good, Dallas Chris. Goat With A Thousand Young is still more insulting, though, somehow. He Who Does Not Walk! That is excellent. It’s really got a double-meaning thing happening – not sure if that was intentional. You know, like, a supernatural-type guy wouldn’t actually walk, just sort of glide mysteriously. Good, Dallas Chris.

Goat With A Thousand Young is still more insulting, though, somehow.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88641 Sean C. in Illinois Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:59:29 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88641 Chris <i>used</i> to work for the Marlins. He was the one who originally suggested dealing Cabrera. Chris used to work for the Marlins. He was the one who originally suggested dealing Cabrera.

]]> By: Carolyn http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88640 Carolyn Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:53:04 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88640 "Why shouldn’t Cabrera be part of any fire sale move to build for the future?" Chris, do you secretly work for the Marlins? “Why shouldn’t Cabrera be part of any fire sale move to build for the future?”

Chris, do you secretly work for the Marlins?

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/wtf-tigers/#comment-88638 Chris in Dallas Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:49:12 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2834#comment-88638 "because you can get a 21 year old stud who, in a couple of years, can be offensively skilled, with speed and good defensively. This team has too many slow DHs." That may be the case, but if you want to lower the Molasses Factor, Cabrera is the LAST guy that you get rid of. With the recent moves, I don't think the Tigers are all that intersted in fielding a "small ball" club anyway. Sean: To answer your question (even though you didn't ask it to me), I'd say Elmers Renteria probably has to put up better than a .266/.307/.390 line over the next 100 games to get his option picked up for '09. And I don't see any scenario where He Who Does Not Walk returns for '09. “because you can get a 21 year old stud who, in a couple of years, can be offensively skilled, with speed and good defensively. This team has too many slow DHs.”

That may be the case, but if you want to lower the Molasses Factor, Cabrera is the LAST guy that you get rid of. With the recent moves, I don’t think the Tigers are all that intersted in fielding a “small ball” club anyway.

Sean: To answer your question (even though you didn’t ask it to me), I’d say Elmers Renteria probably has to put up better than a .266/.307/.390 line over the next 100 games to get his option picked up for ‘09. And I don’t see any scenario where He Who Does Not Walk returns for ‘09.

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