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	<title>Comments on: Game 60:  Indians at Tigers</title>
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	<description>News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball</description>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88821</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88821</guid>
		<description>T Smith

I&#039;ll stand corrected on Verlander as far as being let down by the D goes, since inability to see the games is a real blind spot for me. I still don&#039;t like the 2 walks in the Indians &quot;big inning.&quot; 2 walks in the same inning is not something we like to see from any of the pitchers, least of all Verlander.

I&#039;ve been meaning to ask Billfer or any other stat-savvy guys with ready access to the info to put up something on BAbip for and against from all the Tigers games (and only the Tigers games), for each team they&#039;ve faced. It&#039;s easy enough to look up pitcher by pitcher, and I would bet Verlander has been hard done by, but I&#039;m really more interested in seeing it team by team right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T Smith</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stand corrected on Verlander as far as being let down by the D goes, since inability to see the games is a real blind spot for me. I still don&#8217;t like the 2 walks in the Indians &#8220;big inning.&#8221; 2 walks in the same inning is not something we like to see from any of the pitchers, least of all Verlander.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been meaning to ask Billfer or any other stat-savvy guys with ready access to the info to put up something on BAbip for and against from all the Tigers games (and only the Tigers games), for each team they&#8217;ve faced. It&#8217;s easy enough to look up pitcher by pitcher, and I would bet Verlander has been hard done by, but I&#8217;m really more interested in seeing it team by team right now.</p>
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		<title>By: T Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88812</link>
		<dc:creator>T Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88812</guid>
		<description>&quot;...Still, you can only start blaming “run support’ when you have an ERA that starts with a 3. Not a 5. Verlander pitches great a lot of the time. But not nearly enough of the time, regardless of the offense....&quot;

Yes, to some degree, be we also need to invent a new stat to get a more clearer picture of what&#039;s going on here.   It&#039;s called ERAMD, which is ERA minus shoddy defense.  In any case, Verlander&#039;s ERAMD last night was 0.00.  

I know you didn&#039;t see the game, but our friend Elmers with his artheritic condition and namesake range, couldn&#039;t get to and under a averaged-velocity ball to the left of second base in the fourth inning, that say, almost any other short stop in the league makes a play on.  It would have been a great play, for sure.  One your best defensive position player (in theory, SS) should make for the pitcher.  

But this one play costs Verlander 3 earned runs, which makes his ERAMD 0.00.

Then there&#039;s the ERPDM.  That&#039;s the ERMAD plus factoring sound management of pichter.   Leyland has habitually tacked a couple of earned runs onto Verlander&#039;s tally in multiple outings.

Gosh, when you look at Verlander&#039;s ERPDM over the course of the season, it&#039;s right around 2.04.   That&#039;s not too shabby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;Still, you can only start blaming “run support’ when you have an ERA that starts with a 3. Not a 5. Verlander pitches great a lot of the time. But not nearly enough of the time, regardless of the offense&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, to some degree, be we also need to invent a new stat to get a more clearer picture of what&#8217;s going on here.   It&#8217;s called ERAMD, which is ERA minus shoddy defense.  In any case, Verlander&#8217;s ERAMD last night was 0.00.  </p>
<p>I know you didn&#8217;t see the game, but our friend Elmers with his artheritic condition and namesake range, couldn&#8217;t get to and under a averaged-velocity ball to the left of second base in the fourth inning, that say, almost any other short stop in the league makes a play on.  It would have been a great play, for sure.  One your best defensive position player (in theory, SS) should make for the pitcher.  </p>
<p>But this one play costs Verlander 3 earned runs, which makes his ERAMD 0.00.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the ERPDM.  That&#8217;s the ERMAD plus factoring sound management of pichter.   Leyland has habitually tacked a couple of earned runs onto Verlander&#8217;s tally in multiple outings.</p>
<p>Gosh, when you look at Verlander&#8217;s ERPDM over the course of the season, it&#8217;s right around 2.04.   That&#8217;s not too shabby.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave BW</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88809</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave BW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88809</guid>
		<description>Okay, so I was off by about seven hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, so I was off by about seven hours.</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88808</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88808</guid>
		<description>Chris, it&#039;s not hate. You must have lived a charmed life up until now if you have not found something or someone other than a baseball team to hate. Disappointment, gut wrenching turmoil, why is this team torturing me, I don&#039;t deserve this, I spent my hard earned dollars on this, our city deserves better, why can&#039;t they be like the Red Wings, etc. But not hate. They&#039;re your beloved Tigers and always will be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, it&#8217;s not hate. You must have lived a charmed life up until now if you have not found something or someone other than a baseball team to hate. Disappointment, gut wrenching turmoil, why is this team torturing me, I don&#8217;t deserve this, I spent my hard earned dollars on this, our city deserves better, why can&#8217;t they be like the Red Wings, etc. But not hate. They&#8217;re your beloved Tigers and always will be.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88803</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 08:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88803</guid>
		<description>Way to show your skill and effort Cabrera. Swing at a pitch that a NL reliever wouldn&#039;t swing at. 

Now it should be clear as glass what his problem really is with him. He doesn&#039;t care one bit about either being a great hitter, or being a winner. He just wants to go through the motions, collect his fat check, and do that with as little effort as possible.

I predict that many of you here on DTW are going to start seeing what I&#039;ve seen in the 1st week of the season: that Miguel Cabrera is a bum. I predict that in the next week many of you are going to start expressing your dislike for him on this team here in this site. You all will be sharing the Hater-aid with me.

... come on y&#039;all. Give the ol&#039; Miggy the BOOOOOOO he deserves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way to show your skill and effort Cabrera. Swing at a pitch that a NL reliever wouldn&#8217;t swing at. </p>
<p>Now it should be clear as glass what his problem really is with him. He doesn&#8217;t care one bit about either being a great hitter, or being a winner. He just wants to go through the motions, collect his fat check, and do that with as little effort as possible.</p>
<p>I predict that many of you here on DTW are going to start seeing what I&#8217;ve seen in the 1st week of the season: that Miguel Cabrera is a bum. I predict that in the next week many of you are going to start expressing your dislike for him on this team here in this site. You all will be sharing the Hater-aid with me.</p>
<p>&#8230; come on y&#8217;all. Give the ol&#8217; Miggy the BOOOOOOO he deserves.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88801</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 06:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88801</guid>
		<description>If the Tigers could get to .500 against the AL Central this season, that would be like winning the World Series for me. I don&#039;t care if they lose every other game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Tigers could get to .500 against the AL Central this season, that would be like winning the World Series for me. I don&#8217;t care if they lose every other game.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88800</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 06:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88800</guid>
		<description>&quot;Hey, don’t blame Verlander&quot;

I thought the Tigers scored even less than that, on average, in his starts. That is indeed pathetic.

Still, you can only start blaming &quot;run support&#039; when you have an ERA that starts with a 3. Not a 5. Verlander pitches great a lot of the time. But not nearly enough of the time, regardless of the offense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Hey, don’t blame Verlander&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought the Tigers scored even less than that, on average, in his starts. That is indeed pathetic.</p>
<p>Still, you can only start blaming &#8220;run support&#8217; when you have an ERA that starts with a 3. Not a 5. Verlander pitches great a lot of the time. But not nearly enough of the time, regardless of the offense.</p>
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		<title>By: RudeMood19</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88798</link>
		<dc:creator>RudeMood19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 06:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88798</guid>
		<description>Hey, don&#039;t blame Verlander. He gets an average of 3.12 (it&#039;s going down now) runs per start--3rd lowest in the AL.

This team sucks. Flat out. They&#039;re lifeless and lack heart.

No chemistry. What does it say about a team with a $138 Million payroll to keep calling up guys.

It&#039;s a joke. They have to play something like .700 baseball to get 95 wins. Don&#039;t hold your breath.

Biggest disappointment of the year by far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, don&#8217;t blame Verlander. He gets an average of 3.12 (it&#8217;s going down now) runs per start&#8211;3rd lowest in the AL.</p>
<p>This team sucks. Flat out. They&#8217;re lifeless and lack heart.</p>
<p>No chemistry. What does it say about a team with a $138 Million payroll to keep calling up guys.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a joke. They have to play something like .700 baseball to get 95 wins. Don&#8217;t hold your breath.</p>
<p>Biggest disappointment of the year by far.</p>
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		<title>By: judpma</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88796</link>
		<dc:creator>judpma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 06:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88796</guid>
		<description>if you listened to Verlander&#039;s post game on Tigers live you would think he just pitched another no-hitter.....He says giving up four a game is pitching great. He say he is pitching great, His 5.05 with 38 walks and 46 Earned runs has some old Tiger pitchers turning over in their graves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you listened to Verlander&#8217;s post game on Tigers live you would think he just pitched another no-hitter&#8230;..He says giving up four a game is pitching great. He say he is pitching great, His 5.05 with 38 walks and 46 Earned runs has some old Tiger pitchers turning over in their graves.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88793</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88793</guid>
		<description>Not to forgive the Tigers&#039; hitting, but Verlander walked himself into a loss here. I&#039;d be more forgiving if those walks had been singles. He handed the Indians 2 runs on a platter.

When your hitters are forcing a duel on you, you&#039;d better duel. That&#039;s what aces are for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to forgive the Tigers&#8217; hitting, but Verlander walked himself into a loss here. I&#8217;d be more forgiving if those walks had been singles. He handed the Indians 2 runs on a platter.</p>
<p>When your hitters are forcing a duel on you, you&#8217;d better duel. That&#8217;s what aces are for.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88792</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88792</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the on-field problems that bother me, Ron.

Mark P, no change in the batting order could possibly fix whatever ails this team at the plate right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the on-field problems that bother me, Ron.</p>
<p>Mark P, no change in the batting order could possibly fix whatever ails this team at the plate right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve in Kzoo</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88791</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve in Kzoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88791</guid>
		<description>No Ron I believe that you are right.  Things have got to be going on behind the scenes.  Illitch today at the parade seemed to be preoccupied, now if it was with his 4th championship in 11 years that could the be case.  But I think something bad is going on in the locker room.  Inge, Sheff, and more then likely Guillen are being the rats in the locker room and are making trouble.  They already have when they talked to USA Today about the locker room situation.

My guess we have got to get rid of deadwight and straighten up attitudes.  That is why half of us respect Leyland because he is &quot;supposed to&quot; handle hard nosed attitudes like Bonds and Bonilla.   He is simply not doing this and seems like hes fine with the way things are going.  He needs to be mad, and not let the media into the locker room for a couple of games and then start screwing on the bolts that are lost on some of our players: like Miggy, Renteria, Pudge, others.....

Its just so annoying to watch this team anymore.  Thank god for WGN so I can get my Cubbies and just wish TBS still had a contract with the Braves so I could watch Chipper make history.  Oh well, just gotta keep hoping until the end of the month when we will finally be able to know if we are done or not, so I can move on and do other things in life.  Instead of remaining hopeful like a fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Ron I believe that you are right.  Things have got to be going on behind the scenes.  Illitch today at the parade seemed to be preoccupied, now if it was with his 4th championship in 11 years that could the be case.  But I think something bad is going on in the locker room.  Inge, Sheff, and more then likely Guillen are being the rats in the locker room and are making trouble.  They already have when they talked to USA Today about the locker room situation.</p>
<p>My guess we have got to get rid of deadwight and straighten up attitudes.  That is why half of us respect Leyland because he is &#8220;supposed to&#8221; handle hard nosed attitudes like Bonds and Bonilla.   He is simply not doing this and seems like hes fine with the way things are going.  He needs to be mad, and not let the media into the locker room for a couple of games and then start screwing on the bolts that are lost on some of our players: like Miggy, Renteria, Pudge, others&#8230;..</p>
<p>Its just so annoying to watch this team anymore.  Thank god for WGN so I can get my Cubbies and just wish TBS still had a contract with the Braves so I could watch Chipper make history.  Oh well, just gotta keep hoping until the end of the month when we will finally be able to know if we are done or not, so I can move on and do other things in life.  Instead of remaining hopeful like a fool.</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88790</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88790</guid>
		<description>These guys don&#039;t deserve to wear the Olde English D. It should be the Olde English L. Could send the whole team to Toledo, but they&#039;d probably get lost and end up in Benton Harbor. There is something rotten in the clubhouse and it ain&#039;t the food. No team with this much talent plays like this consistently unless there are off field problems. Is that presumptious?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These guys don&#8217;t deserve to wear the Olde English D. It should be the Olde English L. Could send the whole team to Toledo, but they&#8217;d probably get lost and end up in Benton Harbor. There is something rotten in the clubhouse and it ain&#8217;t the food. No team with this much talent plays like this consistently unless there are off field problems. Is that presumptious?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark P</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88788</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88788</guid>
		<description>With Cabrera batting so bad at home (244/349/422) this year compared to the road (290/357/468) how about switching him and Polanco in the lineup at home?  Leyland should just tell him to relax about trying so hard to crush the ball and take some pitches.  Cabrera seems to need to time to learn how to hit at Comerica.  On the flip side, Polanco hits .315 with runners on base compared to .297 with the bases empty.  Presumedly, there would be runners on base if Polanco were to hit 6th.   

That sucks that we are about to lose Bonderman.  Even though his velocity has been down he has been pitching well lately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With Cabrera batting so bad at home (244/349/422) this year compared to the road (290/357/468) how about switching him and Polanco in the lineup at home?  Leyland should just tell him to relax about trying so hard to crush the ball and take some pitches.  Cabrera seems to need to time to learn how to hit at Comerica.  On the flip side, Polanco hits .315 with runners on base compared to .297 with the bases empty.  Presumedly, there would be runners on base if Polanco were to hit 6th.   </p>
<p>That sucks that we are about to lose Bonderman.  Even though his velocity has been down he has been pitching well lately.</p>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88787</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/06/game-60-indians-at-tigers/#comment-88787</guid>
		<description>.. and Verlander is still on pace for 24 losses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.. and Verlander is still on pace for 24 losses.</p>
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