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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Jones and the lineup shuffle</title>
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		<title>By: judpma</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83560</link>
		<dc:creator>judpma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83560</guid>
		<description>I am not sure whether or not anyone could actually manage this team.
 Can&#039;t run- don&#039;t bunt-can&#039;t move runners-can&#039;t get the two out hit to score what runners they do get on, don&#039;t hit and run ....4 quality starts from the starting pitchers in over 30 games. Decent but not great relief pitching.... live for the three run homer, problem is getting the two guys on to hit the three run homer. This team is a total mess</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure whether or not anyone could actually manage this team.<br />
 Can&#8217;t run- don&#8217;t bunt-can&#8217;t move runners-can&#8217;t get the two out hit to score what runners they do get on, don&#8217;t hit and run &#8230;.4 quality starts from the starting pitchers in over 30 games. Decent but not great relief pitching&#8230;. live for the three run homer, problem is getting the two guys on to hit the three run homer. This team is a total mess</p>
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		<title>By: scotsw</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83553</link>
		<dc:creator>scotsw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 13:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83553</guid>
		<description>Reality check.

If Gary Sheffield were a 33-year-old future HOFer, and coming off major shoulder surgery, we&#039;d all be impressed that he was fighting to get back into game shape, trying mightily to contribute to this team, working hard to right this ship. And we wouldn&#039;t even be surprised by his sub-.200 batting average at this point. Give the man a chance to get his groove back -- it&#039;s only May 6, for heaven&#039;s sake. David Ortiz is only hitting .225 at this point.

I&#039;ve been watching Sheff&#039;s swing, and folks, it does NOT look to me like he&#039;s lost much velocity. It looks to me like he&#039;s upper-cutting a bit, and he doesn&#039;t have his timing down yet. But rather than being slow, he&#039;s hitting a lot of fouls to LEFT. In all seriousness, I&#039;m very, very tired of reading and hearing form fans (mostly not doctors) about how Gary&#039;s &quot;done&quot;. His doctors and the coaches obviously don&#039;t think so, and he&#039;s reporting no pain and pretty good range of movement. It&#039;s still reasonable to hope he may hit 30 HRs this year, and I&#039;d expect about 25, over about 100 more games.

And please quit bitching about his contract. It&#039;s not your money.

EDIT: 2 more quick points: Sheff&#039;s arm looked fine to me last night. You might not have seen this on TV, but after a liner to left, he threw a one-hopper on a dime to first base to keep the runner honest. And second, he&#039;s 39, not 41.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reality check.</p>
<p>If Gary Sheffield were a 33-year-old future HOFer, and coming off major shoulder surgery, we&#8217;d all be impressed that he was fighting to get back into game shape, trying mightily to contribute to this team, working hard to right this ship. And we wouldn&#8217;t even be surprised by his sub-.200 batting average at this point. Give the man a chance to get his groove back &#8212; it&#8217;s only May 6, for heaven&#8217;s sake. David Ortiz is only hitting .225 at this point.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been watching Sheff&#8217;s swing, and folks, it does NOT look to me like he&#8217;s lost much velocity. It looks to me like he&#8217;s upper-cutting a bit, and he doesn&#8217;t have his timing down yet. But rather than being slow, he&#8217;s hitting a lot of fouls to LEFT. In all seriousness, I&#8217;m very, very tired of reading and hearing form fans (mostly not doctors) about how Gary&#8217;s &#8220;done&#8221;. His doctors and the coaches obviously don&#8217;t think so, and he&#8217;s reporting no pain and pretty good range of movement. It&#8217;s still reasonable to hope he may hit 30 HRs this year, and I&#8217;d expect about 25, over about 100 more games.</p>
<p>And please quit bitching about his contract. It&#8217;s not your money.</p>
<p>EDIT: 2 more quick points: Sheff&#8217;s arm looked fine to me last night. You might not have seen this on TV, but after a liner to left, he threw a one-hopper on a dime to first base to keep the runner honest. And second, he&#8217;s 39, not 41.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in Nashville</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83470</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in Nashville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 00:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83470</guid>
		<description>Man Bilfer, I couldn&#039;t agree more on what you said.  I was willing to let Jacque work it out, because I just don&#039;t think you need that much from his bat, but his defense was WAY worse than I remember it being.  So, no big loss overall.

But the Sheffield in LF and DH Maggs makes NO SENSE.  If you are going to put Sheff in LF, no reason to not put Inge at 3B and Guillen at DH.  Makes the infield D MUCH BETTER and rests Guillen&#039;s knees.  You lose a LH bat in the order, but does Leyland/Dombrowski REALLY expect Joyce to produce all that much?  He had a few good AB&#039;s last night, but I don&#039;t think his LH bat is worth losing the improvement on D.

I&#039;ll take this a step further (pure speculation here), I have a feeling that Leyland is saying to Sheff here...ok, you REALLY have to play outfield everyday to be able to hit? Then here you go. He&#039;ll either get hurt and we lose Sheff or it works out and he starts hitting the ball. We haven&#039;t had Sheff all year and in my opinion have expected too much out of a 41 year old coming off a fairly major surgery.  He&#039;s clearly not the player he was.  So, if he gets hurt, is it all that big of a loss?  Then, Inge has an everyday spot at 3B again, Guillen can be the full time DH and play all over the infield when needed, and platoon Thames/Joyce in LF.  Just what I&#039;ve been thinking about since the Jacque Jones move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man Bilfer, I couldn&#8217;t agree more on what you said.  I was willing to let Jacque work it out, because I just don&#8217;t think you need that much from his bat, but his defense was WAY worse than I remember it being.  So, no big loss overall.</p>
<p>But the Sheffield in LF and DH Maggs makes NO SENSE.  If you are going to put Sheff in LF, no reason to not put Inge at 3B and Guillen at DH.  Makes the infield D MUCH BETTER and rests Guillen&#8217;s knees.  You lose a LH bat in the order, but does Leyland/Dombrowski REALLY expect Joyce to produce all that much?  He had a few good AB&#8217;s last night, but I don&#8217;t think his LH bat is worth losing the improvement on D.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll take this a step further (pure speculation here), I have a feeling that Leyland is saying to Sheff here&#8230;ok, you REALLY have to play outfield everyday to be able to hit? Then here you go. He&#8217;ll either get hurt and we lose Sheff or it works out and he starts hitting the ball. We haven&#8217;t had Sheff all year and in my opinion have expected too much out of a 41 year old coming off a fairly major surgery.  He&#8217;s clearly not the player he was.  So, if he gets hurt, is it all that big of a loss?  Then, Inge has an everyday spot at 3B again, Guillen can be the full time DH and play all over the infield when needed, and platoon Thames/Joyce in LF.  Just what I&#8217;ve been thinking about since the Jacque Jones move.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83444</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 00:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83444</guid>
		<description>To be honest, I am a little disappointed.  I was hoping on Inge being inserted at 3B for two reasons.  One, we need to sure up the infield defense which is possibly the worst in the majors.  Two, love him or hate him, Inge plays with passion and intensity; and those are two things this team seems to lack.  If I&#039;m JL, this is my line-up:

1. Granderson (CF)
2. Polanco (2B)
3. Miggy (1B)
4. Mags (RF) 
5. Guillen (DH) (He really reminds me of Edgar Martinez at this point)
6. Renteria (SS)
7. Pudge (C)
8. Sheffield (LF)
9. Inge (3B)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, I am a little disappointed.  I was hoping on Inge being inserted at 3B for two reasons.  One, we need to sure up the infield defense which is possibly the worst in the majors.  Two, love him or hate him, Inge plays with passion and intensity; and those are two things this team seems to lack.  If I&#8217;m JL, this is my line-up:</p>
<p>1. Granderson (CF)<br />
2. Polanco (2B)<br />
3. Miggy (1B)<br />
4. Mags (RF)<br />
5. Guillen (DH) (He really reminds me of Edgar Martinez at this point)<br />
6. Renteria (SS)<br />
7. Pudge (C)<br />
8. Sheffield (LF)<br />
9. Inge (3B)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83405</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 22:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83405</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t care what any baseball club says, a hitter of Granderson&#039;s skill sets is wasted in the leadoff spot. Grady Sizemore, (when normal...) Alfonso Soriano, Hanley Ramirez, etc etc. I get it. They can run. That&#039;s nice. They also hit for massive power (in addition to a solid OBP like Hanley Ramirez has) and that makes them middle of the order guys first who just happen to possess above average or even elite speed. Can we get them in a spot in the order that utilizes their skill-sets much more effectively like, say, 3rd? If they get on base with a double, they&#039;re more likely to score with 4-5-6 hitting behind them.

I don&#039;t know. I&#039;m just tired of this Jim Leyland act of playing his hunches and being &quot;unorthodox&quot; and not putting the team in the best position to win baseball games. It&#039;s not that difficult to play some percentages and to listen to your &quot;gut&quot; and not put a dude less than a year removed from labrum surgery which makes him even lucky to be able to pick up a bat let alone play defense. 

I&#039;m tired of this act. Next manager please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care what any baseball club says, a hitter of Granderson&#8217;s skill sets is wasted in the leadoff spot. Grady Sizemore, (when normal&#8230;) Alfonso Soriano, Hanley Ramirez, etc etc. I get it. They can run. That&#8217;s nice. They also hit for massive power (in addition to a solid OBP like Hanley Ramirez has) and that makes them middle of the order guys first who just happen to possess above average or even elite speed. Can we get them in a spot in the order that utilizes their skill-sets much more effectively like, say, 3rd? If they get on base with a double, they&#8217;re more likely to score with 4-5-6 hitting behind them.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know. I&#8217;m just tired of this Jim Leyland act of playing his hunches and being &#8220;unorthodox&#8221; and not putting the team in the best position to win baseball games. It&#8217;s not that difficult to play some percentages and to listen to your &#8220;gut&#8221; and not put a dude less than a year removed from labrum surgery which makes him even lucky to be able to pick up a bat let alone play defense. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m tired of this act. Next manager please.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83403</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83403</guid>
		<description>T Smith -

I&#039;m glad I&#039;m not Leyland right now. I do smoke, though, and I can even be kind of crusty. 

The way this season is going, we&#039;re all the Anti-Leyland. I don&#039;t recall a single comment here along the lines of &quot;Great move, Jim&quot; that wasn&#039;t sarcastic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T Smith -</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m not Leyland right now. I do smoke, though, and I can even be kind of crusty. </p>
<p>The way this season is going, we&#8217;re all the Anti-Leyland. I don&#8217;t recall a single comment here along the lines of &#8220;Great move, Jim&#8221; that wasn&#8217;t sarcastic.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83401</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83401</guid>
		<description>Sean,

The book on Renteria is that he catches what he gets to, but the range has definitely deteriorated.  It&#039;s a step and a dive for the most part.  His arm is also in severe decline in strength, but it&#039;s pretty accurate (last night&#039;s throwing error notwithstanding).  All things considered, Renteria is probably a slight upgrade over Guillen.

Santiago is probably the best fielding SS on the team, but billfer did some great work illustrating that his defense is somewhat overrated.  Strong arm, though.  He can&#039;t hit nearly as well as the other two, obviously, so that&#039;s a huge tradeoff that probably isn&#039;t worth making.  Ramon should be a late innings defensive replacement, ideally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean,</p>
<p>The book on Renteria is that he catches what he gets to, but the range has definitely deteriorated.  It&#8217;s a step and a dive for the most part.  His arm is also in severe decline in strength, but it&#8217;s pretty accurate (last night&#8217;s throwing error notwithstanding).  All things considered, Renteria is probably a slight upgrade over Guillen.</p>
<p>Santiago is probably the best fielding SS on the team, but billfer did some great work illustrating that his defense is somewhat overrated.  Strong arm, though.  He can&#8217;t hit nearly as well as the other two, obviously, so that&#8217;s a huge tradeoff that probably isn&#8217;t worth making.  Ramon should be a late innings defensive replacement, ideally.</p>
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		<title>By: T Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83400</link>
		<dc:creator>T Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83400</guid>
		<description>Sean in Illinois:

You hinted earlier that you may be Leyland...  After your statement:

&quot;...This is all Guillen’s fault, really. It all becomes so clear now. Guillen and his knees. I hate that guy....&quot;

I&#039;m convinced your actually the Anti-Leyland....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean in Illinois:</p>
<p>You hinted earlier that you may be Leyland&#8230;  After your statement:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;This is all Guillen’s fault, really. It all becomes so clear now. Guillen and his knees. I hate that guy&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m convinced your actually the Anti-Leyland&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83396</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83396</guid>
		<description>Speaking of the left side of the infield, what is Renteria&#039;s particular weakness (range?), and who is the best fielding SS they have? Santiago? Renteria still has to be an upgrade at SS over Guillen last year. Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of the left side of the infield, what is Renteria&#8217;s particular weakness (range?), and who is the best fielding SS they have? Santiago? Renteria still has to be an upgrade at SS over Guillen last year. Right?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83394</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83394</guid>
		<description>We are fortunate in that Cleveland is not running away and hiding with the division, and Minny will most certainly not be in the mix come August.

I have no problem releasing Jones, but I&#039;m not sure the &quot;changes&quot; are much more than cosmetic.  We don&#039;t catch the ball particularly well, have little team speed, and at this point are a feast/famine offense without any balance.  I don&#039;t know what the answer is except that you keep running your best guys out there and wait for the track records to take over.  The exception there would be Pudge, who is done as an impact hitter.  His defense remains valuable, though.

IMO, Inge needs to be the 3b for this team.  The left side of the infield is atrocious and every other ground ball gets through the hole.  You can live with his .250 bat and 140 K&#039;s in the lineup if he save us some outs/runs.  That means that either Cabrera or Guillen has to DH while the other plays 1b and Sheff plays left.  I am perfectly fine using Cabs at first just to get Guillen off the infield.  This means that Sheffield is your every day LF, and I don&#039;t know if his body will hold up over 130 games, but they need some more athleticism on the field.  It&#039;s like a frigging softball team out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are fortunate in that Cleveland is not running away and hiding with the division, and Minny will most certainly not be in the mix come August.</p>
<p>I have no problem releasing Jones, but I&#8217;m not sure the &#8220;changes&#8221; are much more than cosmetic.  We don&#8217;t catch the ball particularly well, have little team speed, and at this point are a feast/famine offense without any balance.  I don&#8217;t know what the answer is except that you keep running your best guys out there and wait for the track records to take over.  The exception there would be Pudge, who is done as an impact hitter.  His defense remains valuable, though.</p>
<p>IMO, Inge needs to be the 3b for this team.  The left side of the infield is atrocious and every other ground ball gets through the hole.  You can live with his .250 bat and 140 K&#8217;s in the lineup if he save us some outs/runs.  That means that either Cabrera or Guillen has to DH while the other plays 1b and Sheff plays left.  I am perfectly fine using Cabs at first just to get Guillen off the infield.  This means that Sheffield is your every day LF, and I don&#8217;t know if his body will hold up over 130 games, but they need some more athleticism on the field.  It&#8217;s like a frigging softball team out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83392</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83392</guid>
		<description>Angus - By proven, I meant that both Willis and Verlander have put up at least back to back ace years. Proven doesn&#039;t mean guaranteed. Bonderman is paid like he&#039;s proven, but the jury really is out on him, I think.

No way the Tigers are seriously looking to the future - and no further than 2009 at that - this early. That won&#039;t happen until and unless they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. They mean to win in 2008. They&#039;re just not playing like it. But we can forgive them for relaxing, since they already swept the Fantasy World Paper World Series last winter through the clever strategy of (virtually) showing up, and are probably still tired from all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angus &#8211; By proven, I meant that both Willis and Verlander have put up at least back to back ace years. Proven doesn&#8217;t mean guaranteed. Bonderman is paid like he&#8217;s proven, but the jury really is out on him, I think.</p>
<p>No way the Tigers are seriously looking to the future &#8211; and no further than 2009 at that &#8211; this early. That won&#8217;t happen until and unless they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. They mean to win in 2008. They&#8217;re just not playing like it. But we can forgive them for relaxing, since they already swept the Fantasy World Paper World Series last winter through the clever strategy of (virtually) showing up, and are probably still tired from all that.</p>
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		<title>By: charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83390</link>
		<dc:creator>charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83390</guid>
		<description>stephen

you are correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stephen</p>
<p>you are correct.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83389</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83389</guid>
		<description>At this point, I would say that Verlander is proven, although he needs some help with his mechanics.  Willis and Bonderman, the jury is still out.  There is an outside chance that Bonderman may not pan out.  Willis the same.  I think we have a lot of guys in our lineup who have two or less seasons, Kenny, Shef, Guillen?, Pudge? (not likely to be here anyway).  That leaves us with Curtis, Ordonez, Renteria, Polanco who have probably less than 4 years.  Then we have Carbrera and Curtis.  The question is do we unload a some of these guys who are underperforming and bring up guys like Joyce, Thomas, Hollimon sooner than later to replace some of these guys?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At this point, I would say that Verlander is proven, although he needs some help with his mechanics.  Willis and Bonderman, the jury is still out.  There is an outside chance that Bonderman may not pan out.  Willis the same.  I think we have a lot of guys in our lineup who have two or less seasons, Kenny, Shef, Guillen?, Pudge? (not likely to be here anyway).  That leaves us with Curtis, Ordonez, Renteria, Polanco who have probably less than 4 years.  Then we have Carbrera and Curtis.  The question is do we unload a some of these guys who are underperforming and bring up guys like Joyce, Thomas, Hollimon sooner than later to replace some of these guys?</p>
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		<title>By: tiff</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83388</link>
		<dc:creator>tiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83388</guid>
		<description>Just got back from a walk along the riverfront downtown.  This place is littered with Boston fans.  Grrr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just got back from a walk along the riverfront downtown.  This place is littered with Boston fans.  Grrr.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andre</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/thoughts-on-jones-and-the-lineup-shuffle/#comment-83387</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2731#comment-83387</guid>
		<description>I hope its heated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope its heated!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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