Comments on: The Galarraga rotation debate http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:06:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Tiger Geist » Blog Archive » Blowups and pitching updates http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85545 Tiger Geist » Blog Archive » Blowups and pitching updates Wed, 21 May 2008 21:51:38 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85545 [...] They protect themselves in case Galarraga’s start is somewhat a fluke, as mentioned here. [...] [...] They protect themselves in case Galarraga’s start is somewhat a fluke, as mentioned here. [...]

]]> By: Neal http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85340 Neal Tue, 20 May 2008 21:58:43 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85340 Scott, I think we agree mostly. Eckstein isn't really an improvement in the field however, I haven't researched it, but what I've read says that his range is limited, as is his arm. My thought would be to groom a Big young SS that can field and throw, and then hope that he develops a hitter with power. I am in total agreement about Catching, but Inge isn't much better, just more cost effective and versatile. Maybe let him split time with Wilson if he ever comes back. I really don't know long term what we can do with Miggy and Carlos. If Miggy gets fully healthy could he play 3rd, we forget he is only 24?. Left is an option, but easier to find someone (well, usually). The only point I disagree with you on is about signing a starting pitcher. That is part of our problem, too many guys tying up spots that don't allow someone to step up. We're not that bad off with Rogers on a 1 year deal right now, we could eat that if necessary. Scott, I think we agree mostly.
Eckstein isn’t really an improvement in the field however, I haven’t researched it, but what I’ve read says that his range is limited, as is his arm. My thought would be to groom a Big young SS that can field and throw, and then hope that he develops a hitter with power.
I am in total agreement about Catching, but Inge isn’t much better, just more cost effective and versatile. Maybe let him split time with Wilson if he ever comes back.
I really don’t know long term what we can do with Miggy and Carlos. If Miggy gets fully healthy could he play 3rd, we forget he is only 24?. Left is an option, but easier to find someone (well, usually).
The only point I disagree with you on is about signing a starting pitcher. That is part of our problem, too many guys tying up spots that don’t allow someone to step up. We’re not that bad off with Rogers on a 1 year deal right now, we could eat that if necessary.

]]> By: Scott http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85327 Scott Tue, 20 May 2008 20:32:10 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85327 Neal, I couldn't agree with you more about Renteria. He is only a marginal upgrade from Guillen at SS, well at least the Guillen of last year. This year, he might be a huge upgrade. The point is, the Tigers would have been better to sign Eckstein or some other slug that could field the position well and hold on to Jurjens. I know this sounds like hindsight, but I think most Tigers' followers felt the same way. I think this was a Leyland getting his guy move. As I've said, the Tigers biggest problem is that they have a bunch of guys that really can't play in the field. I would not move Miggy back to 3B ... he's absolutely brutal. Nor would I sign Bonds ... he still has value as a hitter, but you think the Tigers have chemistry problems now .... None of the short term options are good ones. I think this team will play better and eventually get over .500, but not way over ... 84-78ish. It will be an interesting off-season. Among the questions that have to be answered: 1. Catcher (Inge?) - Please, Mr. Dombrowski, do not bring Pudge back under any circumstance. 2. Third base 3. Left Field - Tell Miggy to get in shape. If you could even get him to be serviceable, it would solve a lot of problems. You can promote Larish - a power left handed bat, which the Tigers need badly and a REAL first baseman. 4. Eat Sheffield's contract - He's done. 5. Don't bring back Rogers - See above. 6. Sign a starting pitcher Neal,
I couldn’t agree with you more about Renteria. He is only a marginal upgrade from Guillen at SS, well at least the Guillen of last year. This year, he might be a huge upgrade. The point is, the Tigers would have been better to sign Eckstein or some other slug that could field the position well and hold on to Jurjens. I know this sounds like hindsight, but I think most Tigers’ followers felt the same way. I think this was a Leyland getting his guy move.

As I’ve said, the Tigers biggest problem is that they have a bunch of guys that really can’t play in the field. I would not move Miggy back to 3B … he’s absolutely brutal. Nor would I sign Bonds … he still has value as a hitter, but you think the Tigers have chemistry problems now ….

None of the short term options are good ones. I think this team will play better and eventually get over .500, but not way over … 84-78ish.

It will be an interesting off-season. Among the questions that have to be answered:

1. Catcher (Inge?) – Please, Mr. Dombrowski, do not bring Pudge back under any circumstance.

2. Third base

3. Left Field – Tell Miggy to get in shape. If you could even get him to be serviceable, it would solve a lot of problems. You can promote Larish – a power left handed bat, which the Tigers need badly and a REAL first baseman.

4. Eat Sheffield’s contract – He’s done.

5. Don’t bring back Rogers – See above.

6. Sign a starting pitcher

]]> By: greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85324 greg Tue, 20 May 2008 20:13:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85324 Chemistry doesn't score runs? Do you think guys that don't get along are going to give each other tips to help their swing(or a million other things) that will lead to increased production? Chemistry doesn’t score runs? Do you think guys that don’t get along are going to give each other tips to help their swing(or a million other things) that will lead to increased production?

]]> By: Neal in SD http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85322 Neal in SD Tue, 20 May 2008 20:02:03 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85322 Rambings for consideration. Just saw the article in the freep with Grilli. He could be right about the Chemistry, but, it doesn't score runs, and Casey stunk last year and Inge couldn't hit. Billfer's right that AG will get hit, but, I don't think you pull him until that happens. Willis isn't right yet, not with 4BB's in short stint, that lack of control will get him rocked in Detroit. I thought the Sheff deal was great when it happened, but he hasn't been right since the shoulder injury. He has to go on the DL, then either surgery or rehab. I thought the Renteria trade was stupid, old SS - getting older, hadn't hit well in the AL. Now his OPS is in between Eckstein's and Vizquel's. Whoa. We have no choice but to ride him out, although giving some more time to Santiago would good until he cools off, or Renteria gets hot. Same thing goes for Rayburn with Palanco, but he hasn't been terrible. Just a question, can Guillen field at any position?? If not, then how bad was Cabera at third, and could he, or should he go back? We could then DH Guillen, bring up Hessman, or Larrish, or whoever we have as a prospect, or short term shot in the arm at 1st. I know Guillen is not as valuable at DH, but then neither is Caberra at 1st. Long term, can Caberra stay at 3rd, or was it a realization that pretty soon, if not already, he had outgirthed playing 3rd. Lastly, for want of a Left fielder the Kingdom was lost. Bite the bullet, sign Bonds, let him play left and DH, at least he is well rested, and the charges filed won't be going anywhere fast. Now just kill with the response in how insane I am, and the chemistry thing is the big deal. BS. Nutshell: Keep AG in the rotation till he starts getting rocked. Willis comes only when he is ready and replaces whoever needs to be out of the rotation at that time. Guillen at DH mostly. Caberra back to 3rd. Santiago and Rayburn get more playing time. The biggie- Sign Bonds to sit in Left and DH. Rambings for consideration.
Just saw the article in the freep with Grilli. He could be right about the Chemistry, but, it doesn’t score runs, and Casey stunk last year and Inge couldn’t hit.
Billfer’s right that AG will get hit, but, I don’t think you pull him until that happens. Willis isn’t right yet, not with 4BB’s in short stint, that lack of control will get him rocked in Detroit.
I thought the Sheff deal was great when it happened, but he hasn’t been right since the shoulder injury. He has to go on the DL, then either surgery or rehab.
I thought the Renteria trade was stupid, old SS – getting older, hadn’t hit well in the AL. Now his OPS is in between Eckstein’s and Vizquel’s. Whoa. We have no choice but to ride him out, although giving some more time to Santiago would good until he cools off, or Renteria gets hot. Same thing goes for Rayburn with Palanco, but he hasn’t been terrible.
Just a question, can Guillen field at any position?? If not, then how bad was Cabera at third, and could he, or should he go back? We could then DH Guillen, bring up Hessman, or Larrish, or whoever we have as a prospect, or short term shot in the arm at 1st.
I know Guillen is not as valuable at DH, but then neither is Caberra at 1st. Long term, can Caberra stay at 3rd, or was it a realization that pretty soon, if not already, he had outgirthed playing 3rd.
Lastly, for want of a Left fielder the Kingdom was lost. Bite the bullet, sign Bonds, let him play left and DH, at least he is well rested, and the charges filed won’t be going anywhere fast. Now just kill with the response in how insane I am, and the chemistry thing is the big deal. BS.

Nutshell:
Keep AG in the rotation till he starts getting rocked. Willis comes only when he is ready and replaces whoever needs to be out of the rotation at that time.
Guillen at DH mostly.
Caberra back to 3rd.
Santiago and Rayburn get more playing time.
The biggie- Sign Bonds to sit in Left and DH.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85304 Sean C. in Illinois Tue, 20 May 2008 17:24:31 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85304 Missing the point is a secondary concern when you have an axe to grind. I think our friend enjoys trying to begin discussions by way of insult. Missing the point is a secondary concern when you have an axe to grind. I think our friend enjoys trying to begin discussions by way of insult.

]]> By: Dave BW http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85302 Dave BW Tue, 20 May 2008 17:12:46 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85302 DavidBrennan -- Congrats on missing the point entirely. DavidBrennan — Congrats on missing the point entirely.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85297 Sean C. in Illinois Tue, 20 May 2008 16:18:59 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85297 Yes, Robertson might make a good long reliever. But the Tigers are paying him too much to settle for that. If he's hurt, he shouldn't be pitching at all. Yes, Robertson might make a good long reliever. But the Tigers are paying him too much to settle for that. If he’s hurt, he shouldn’t be pitching at all.

]]> By: jim-mt http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85292 jim-mt Tue, 20 May 2008 15:45:53 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85292 Nate must be hurt, not tired. He almost botched an intentional walk with a wild pitch, then walked Randy Johnson with 2 outs. So he should be the one out of the starters--he might be better in long relief for 3-4 innings anyway. Nate must be hurt, not tired. He almost botched an intentional walk with a wild pitch, then walked Randy Johnson with 2 outs. So he should be the one out of the starters–he might be better in long relief for 3-4 innings anyway.

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85289 Kyle J Tue, 20 May 2008 15:35:11 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85289 Just so I don't get pegged as the guy who never finds any reason to go with a rookie over a veteran, I'd say we do have more than enough sample size to justify DLing/benching/releasing Sheffield, "who has hit .179 with four HRs and 18 RBI in 74 games since injuring his right shoulder last July." http://www.dailytribune.com/stories/052008/spo_sports02.shtml Just so I don’t get pegged as the guy who never finds any reason to go with a rookie over a veteran, I’d say we do have more than enough sample size to justify DLing/benching/releasing Sheffield, “who has hit .179 with four HRs and 18 RBI in 74 games since injuring his right shoulder last July.”

http://www.dailytribune.com/st.....ts02.shtml

]]> By: Mike in CT http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85287 Mike in CT Tue, 20 May 2008 15:33:38 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85287 This USA Today story just makes it all the more depressing... http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080520/SPORTS02/80520006/1050/SPORTS02 This USA Today story just makes it all the more depressing…

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll.....0/SPORTS02

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85285 Kyle J Tue, 20 May 2008 15:27:11 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85285 <blockquote>I mean, look how well it’s worked out sending Clete Thomas down, and going with Jones Sheffield er, Joyce/Thames in left!</blockquote> I'm all for sending Sheffield to the DL--and playing him in LF was clearly a mistake--but I'd also note that: (1) Thomas has hit .192 in Toledo. Maybe that's a function of the disappointment of being demoted. More likely, he was playing a bit over his head at the major league level. (2) Joyce's 4 HR have compensated pretty well for whatever production Thomas might have contributed.

I mean, look how well it’s worked out sending Clete Thomas down, and going with Jones Sheffield er, Joyce/Thames in left!

I’m all for sending Sheffield to the DL–and playing him in LF was clearly a mistake–but I’d also note that:

(1) Thomas has hit .192 in Toledo. Maybe that’s a function of the disappointment of being demoted. More likely, he was playing a bit over his head at the major league level.

(2) Joyce’s 4 HR have compensated pretty well for whatever production Thomas might have contributed.

]]> By: Sean C. in Illinois http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85280 Sean C. in Illinois Tue, 20 May 2008 15:17:43 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85280 Not a bad idea, Sam. But the Tigers already have one Todd Jones. Do they need another? Not sure what you mean about bullpen depth. Not a bad idea, Sam. But the Tigers already have one Todd Jones. Do they need another? Not sure what you mean about bullpen depth.

]]> By: Sam http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85277 Sam Tue, 20 May 2008 15:09:22 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85277 I think Rogers should go to the Pen. There are several reasons for this: - Roger's elbow is not going to hold up for 200 innings, he has a much better chance of avoiding the DL out of the Pen. - Rogers started his career in the pen and has a 3.29 career ERA as a reliever (vs. 4.34 as a starter). - He adds some much needed depth to the bullpen. -Sam I think Rogers should go to the Pen. There are several reasons for this:

- Roger’s elbow is not going to hold up for 200 innings, he has a much better chance of avoiding the DL out of the Pen.

- Rogers started his career in the pen and has a 3.29 career ERA as a reliever (vs. 4.34 as a starter).

- He adds some much needed depth to the bullpen.

-Sam

]]> By: T Smith http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/05/the-galarraga-rotation-debate/#comment-85269 T Smith Tue, 20 May 2008 14:11:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/?p=2779#comment-85269 Yes, that is the argument. But it's also wrong. I'm all in favor of starting Willis, if ... if, he can demonstrate in Toledo he can find the strike zone. If he can't find the strike zone there is still an issue, whether it's his knee or something else entirely. There was an issue before the extended knee that everyone seems to forget. Until Willis throws strikes, the stats be damned. He needs more rehabilitation. And Galarraga should be pitching until that happens, regardless of a hypothetical argument that has yet to manifest in reality. I also agree that Galarraga is likely over-achieving -- I am by no means advocating a long term contract based on a six game sample. But what of it? How refreshing amid a group of under-achievers. Let him over achieve until the cows come home. Sooner or later he will get lit up and fall down to earth a bit. Yes. Or perhaps the league will figure him out and he will no longer be a viable candidate to replace a rehabilitating pitcher who can't find the strike zone. Who knows? Then again, maybe he's tweaked his game since his Texas days, improved, changed his technique, or corrected a problem. Maybe this is a case where Hernandez, or his counterpart in AAA deserves some credit. Again, who knows? All we do know for sure is that Galarraga has been solid and is currently this team's best option to replace a pitcher who has yet to demonstrate he can find the strike zone. I also never was one who suggested Galarraga should replace one of the starters in the rotation. All I'm suggesting is that Willis is not ready. If you really want to protect your investment, figure out why this kid can't throw strikes and correct it. Ah, preferably in Toledo please! Yes, that is the argument. But it’s also wrong. I’m all in favor of starting Willis, if … if, he can demonstrate in Toledo he can find the strike zone. If he can’t find the strike zone there is still an issue, whether it’s his knee or something else entirely. There was an issue before the extended knee that everyone seems to forget. Until Willis throws strikes, the stats be damned. He needs more rehabilitation. And Galarraga should be pitching until that happens, regardless of a hypothetical argument that has yet to manifest in reality.

I also agree that Galarraga is likely over-achieving — I am by no means advocating a long term contract based on a six game sample. But what of it? How refreshing amid a group of under-achievers. Let him over achieve until the cows come home. Sooner or later he will get lit up and fall down to earth a bit. Yes. Or perhaps the league will figure him out and he will no longer be a viable candidate to replace a rehabilitating pitcher who can’t find the strike zone. Who knows? Then again, maybe he’s tweaked his game since his Texas days, improved, changed his technique, or corrected a problem. Maybe this is a case where Hernandez, or his counterpart in AAA deserves some credit. Again, who knows? All we do know for sure is that Galarraga has been solid and is currently this team’s best option to replace a pitcher who has yet to demonstrate he can find the strike zone.

I also never was one who suggested Galarraga should replace one of the starters in the rotation. All I’m suggesting is that Willis is not ready. If you really want to protect your investment, figure out why this kid can’t throw strikes and correct it. Ah, preferably in Toledo please!

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