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PREGAME: Good old game 54. The one-third mark of the season. Yeah.
The Tigers journey to Seattle to take on the Mariners. Seattle snapped a 7 game losing streak when they took the last 2 games against Boston.
Detroit will face Carlos Silva who they bludgeoned to the tune of 7 runs in 4.1 innings when they faced him in Detroit. Things didn’t get better in his next start when he also allowed 7 runs to the Yankees.
Taking the mound for the Tigers is Nate Robertson. His last start came in the 19-3 drubbing of the Twins. His quality start in the effort was the start of one full turn through the rotation with quality starts for all.
Robertson’s last start in Safeco was in September 2006 when he pitched 7 innings and allowed 1 run.
DET @ SEA, Friday, May 30, 2008 Game Preview - Baseball-Reference.com
POSTGAME: I love Carlos Silva. Another 7 run outing, this one didn’t even last an inning for him. Of course the Tigers didn’t score after that first inning, but it proved to be more than enough.
Robertson allowed his typical 4 runs. Rod Allen said in the postgame show that Nate was battling an illness picked up after leaving LA.
The bullpen was nearly flawless for 2.1 innings with a double off Freddy Dolsi being the only blemish. Zach Miner and Todd Jones threw 1-2-3 innings with Miner dropping his ERA under 6.
Leyland managed this pretty aggressively at the end with Clete Thomas coming in to play left, Pudge moving behind the plate, and Inge moving to third.
{ 155 comments… read them below or add one }
Leaving Portland now to go see our boys tonight (thru sun). Lets go Tigs!
I’ll be at the park tomorrow! Woot!
10:10? The West Coast needs to just acknowledge they made a mistake and knock off this Pacific Time nonsense.
Awesome. I get to be annoyed by that freaking train for the next 3 games…
Since August 1, 2006, the Tigers have a 17-34 record in Nate Robertson started games.
8/1/2006> 3-8
2007 > 11-19
2008 > 3-7
-Sam
And just a 2-3 record to show for it!
$#%&#@!@#$#*^%@!!!!
Still a good sign in terms of fundamental performance, though.
Why is that everyone on this site brings up stats? Can’t I just feel it my gut, you know, the truthiness of it.
Don’t bring me down with your crazy new fangeld statistics. We’re on a streak (1 game so far), ride the momentum. Go Tigers. BTW, Brinkman was a great hitting SS, I just feel that in my gut.
Chris:
Believe me… it’s more annoying when it’s 100 yards behind you.
But far worse is that “wha-oh-a-oh-a-oh” song that they play whenever the Mariners make a good play. It’s the very definition of “adding insult to injury.”
Neal: That was a very gritty post. Totally clutch. I can almost see the intangibles emanating from the screen here. You, sir, are a gamer.
Do you think we could persuade Toronto to part with Eck?? True gamer, gritty, etc., everything you could want in a SS.
Well, except for range, arm, or bat, but otherwise he’s great.
Neal:
We could get Erstad to play LF. That guy oozes grit. Did you know he played football in college?
Wow, is he the guy who was punter? He would fit in with our infield, kicking balls everywhere.
I’m with Dave, the 10:10 is killer. And very ungritty.
We could get the all grit team together and trade for Grilli and we would ooze chemistry. Like the 03 Tigers but with chemistry, so we would difinitely win.
Did you know he played football in college?
Not only that, but I hear he used to play baseball, too.
Nice ones, Neal and Sean. Can you guys keep this up for another 3 hours until the game starts? I’m still at work…
Grit is all well and good, but we need GRINDERS like Aaron Rowand and Joe Crede. In fact, the White Sox are the model franchise with their low OBP, giving away outs, and potty-mouth manager.
I say we trade everyone for AJ Pierszinski, Crede, and the corpse formerly known as Jim Thome. We can filll in with minor leaguers around them, after getting those guys it won’t matter.
Joel
I’ll do what I can. I do have some material to unload before it gets old and untimely, and before the series starts and there’s serious baseball talking to be done.
Mark
A “grinder’ is a sandwich somewhere, right? All of a sudden I’m hungry for an Italian beef. And I’m trying to go vegetarian. Thanks.
You start with the manager, our’s smokes too much to be able to say enough stupid things to get the grinders going. I think if we can just starting making a few more outs and Leyland can put down the smokes and start with some insane rants, we’ll be in first by July 4th.
To go with the gritty guys and the grinders, how about some pitchers that know hot pitch to the score? And by “the score,” I mean “the projected score after the bullpen takes over for them.”
We just need to get rid of the base-cloggers on the team. Nothing more irritating than base-clogging.
When can Jack Morris take over as the pitching coach?
Mark and Joel, you’re so right, Maggs doesn’t make enough outs, clogs the bases, and can’t be gritty or a grinder with his hair. He has to go if we want an all grinder team.
Tiger off days, unfortunately, provide the dark and damp conditions that encourage the growth of song parodies. I have two partials that anyone is free to help me out with, though I’m also content to let them stand as stunted mutants only hinting at further silliness.
First, a take on Foreigner’s “Star Rider” entitled “Ex-Tigers”:
Ex-Tigers (Tigers, Tigers)
Traded them for Gar
Ex-Tigers (Tigers, Tigers)
Show me where they are
Losses mounting, all control
Is in the hands of those who blow
Will they ape Jacque Jones
And one day be Ex-Tigers?
Next, a nod to the Rolling Stones with “Sympathy For The Sheffield”:
Please allow me to introduce myself
I’m the man they call DH
I told the skip I could play left field
Laid many of Jim’s plans to waste
Nice work, Sean.
Actually the late game works for me tonight, my son is at a prom and I have to pick him up from the after-party so I’ll be up pretty late.
Yeah, good call on the base clogging, we have way too many guys that are hurting the offense because they’re slow.
How the hell are we supposed to score any runs with these guys on base ALL THE TIME??!?
Where is the next Dave Kingman? He didn’t clog the bases, oh, to have Rob Deer again. They made a lot of outs, so doesn’t that mean there were gritty grinders.
Neal, they were grinders, but they hit too many home runs to be considered gritty. See, gritty means slow, unathletic players with no discernible baseball skills that get their uniforms dirty a lot, receive key roles on teams despite lack of production, and are widely lauded by columnists with such empty terms like “winner” or “team player”.
“Gritty” players also tend, overwhelmingly, to be white position players.
I wasn’t going to go there Joel, so I will refrain from additional comment.
Speaking of Rob Deer, that name came up in a recent mention of Mike Hessman. It didn’t seem to me that Hessman offered anything for the Tigers, mostly because he bats right, but then someone (maybe elsewhere) claimed he played “a mean 3rd base.” Is this true?
If Hessman was a Brandon Inge with more power, you could almost see him up with the Tigers. Alas, he doesn’t also catch, as far as I know.
And he doesn’t bat left. No, he’s doomed.
Going over the roster to find a gritty player:
Joyce - sent down
Larish - does a Firstbaseman count? too much of power hitter
Raburn - probably qualifies, but is hitting under the Mendoza line, so people might think he’s Latino.
Inge - too many homers, or is 06 far enough back so he now qualifies
Clete Thomas - no homers, has to be our gritty grinder, he must play.
I’m with Dave BW that this Pacific Time crap is confusing and unnecessary. There should be one Universal Baseball Time, like there is GMT, and all game times should be set accordingly. Detroit would be the Greenwich in this system, because it is one of the most centrally located cities in the world, along with Chicago.
Sean, I think I read something about Hessman’s defense on the Mudhens website. I think you have the situation nailed, except for the part that Hessman is only a year younger than Inge. Also, with his power he isn’t a gritty grinder so he really wouldn’t be all that valuable. Although his OBP lifetime does show that he wouldn’t clog the bases.
Sean, are you proposing something like the NFL time starts. If the NFL does it must be great marketing, so lets do it, bring on the cheerleaders, when is halftime? And no one is on Steriods in the NFL!
In the positive, non-cliched, non-joke sense of the term, I think Curtis Granderson is the scrappiest, grittiest player on the team. You could argue that the loss of his stats hurt more than the loss of his grit those first 22 (?) games, but I think it’s a bit of both. That’s the one and only excuse the Tigers could make about their poor start, though no one has.
Neal - There’s still an NFL? I thought they merged with WWF a while back.
Totally agree that Clete Thomas is the most promising candidate for a gritty player. He fits the bill perfectly. I sure hope he doesn’t ruin it by getting, you know, better and stuff.
Neal - In the sense of a mediocre, overrated plater who looks like he tries real hard, I think Jacque Jones was the closest the Tigers came to a grinder, except for the looked like he tried real hard part. Running into a few walls could have landed him a job with the White Sox, or maybe the Phillies. He must not have an agent.
Where is Jacque Jones now, anyway? Anywhere?
Sean, I thought you had gone all sentimental, but then you were back.
I think you’re right about Granderson, and his slump is probably everything that is wrong with the Tigers. I think the Tigers will follow once he gets his stroke back.
I’m just going to say that he doesn’t qualify as a gritty player for a number of reasons: power, speed, suntan ability, there are more but I don’t think I need to mention them.
Maybe, Mark, but someone said that Clete Thomas looked like an owl. I’m not sure grinders are supposed to look like owls. Besides, owls aren’t grinders, take it from me. Most of the time, they just don’t give a hoot.
I think I loved the 4 hoppers back from the outfield the best.
I heard the Marlins were looking to sign to play some CF, at least that’s what I read someone, have no idea where.
The real question is does Clete have the BB IQ to a wise owl?
Please don’t let Clete hit a homer tonight and ruin it, maybe come in for some late game defense. A diving grab in foul territory would do it.
Neal _ I didn’t mean to get sentimental, but I figured I’d better start getting serious before Billfer bans me from the site altogether.
Neal _ I didn’t see Clete Thomas play earlier in the year, but it seems he earned pretty good reviews. You’re saying his arm was bad? For a CF, or for an outfielder in general?
On the serious side, maybe I’ve been drinking and don’t know it, or it might just be the PBB I still have in my system from growing up in Michigan and drinking Milk, but I still think this team has an opportunity to put things together.
The ChiSox will come back down, nobody is taking off with the division, the starting pitching is coming around. The relief hasn’t been awful, actually pretty good, just not great, especially considering that we might get Fernando and Joel back. The hitting will come around and we will get hot.
Sean, I was talking about JJ, sorry I forgot to write Jones in.
And by the way, I’m with you on Brinkman. Very underrated hitter. Just unlucky. The way he choked up on that bat was revolutionary.
Seriously - Aurelio Rodriguez is who we need today. Brook Robinson’s only peer in the AL during that time, as I recall.
Neal, I think we might be better off assuming that Rodney and Zumaya won’t be back. It seems like we’ve been hearing about their return for 10 straight years now. If the Tigers aren’t in serious contention (2nd place and charging hard at the very least) by the time they get back, if they do get back, they won’t be enough to make much of a difference.
Sean, Mark: How do we get the bats of Caberra, Guillen, Larish, and possibly Hessman in the lineup at the same time?
I personally think that Inge should be groomed to be the primary Catcher by the end of the season.
Here’s the lineup - featuring Miggs in the 6 slot, Inge catching and the debut of Larish:
Granderson, CF
Polanco, 2B
Guillen, 3B
Ordonez, RF
Thames, LF
Cabrera, 1B
Larish, DH
Renteria, SS
Inge, C
Aurelio Rodriguez, actually I was thinking we need McAliffe, he went on year without hitting into a doulble play, wouldn’t that be wonderful on this team.
I was just trying to stay optomistic about Joel and Fernando, I don’t think Rodney will be back this year, but I’m holding out hope for Joel.
And by “the score,” I mean “the projected score after the bullpen takes over for them.”
Ah, that was funny, Kyle J. Sad but true funny.
Wow! Leyland is droping Cabrera in the order. Why not? He hasn’t been very productive there with his low BA with RISP. He only has 30 RBIs which is pretty bad for your 5th batter in the lineup. Maybe droping him will get him going.
Sean, name the 72 team, quick.
Tbone, thanks for the lineup.
Interesting as usual these days. I’m in heaven - my man is #5. Cabrera-Larish-Renteria 6-7-8. I like it. This lineup gets my stamp of approval. Good luck to Larish, and good for Carlos, who must be all better now.
Chris: It’s okay to drop him if you have something better, but he has the 4th best OBP of the starters, 2nd most RBI’s, and he switched positons only a few weeks into the season. Considering his leg problems I think he’s done pretty well, and his numbers will look more like Ordonez’s soon, but with more homers.
Neal, I’ll try:
MacAuliffe 2B
Brinkman SS
Cash 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Stanley CF
Kaline RF (too late?) Northrup?
Horton LF (RF?)
Freehan C
Lolich
Coleman
Timmerman
McClain (too late? probably)
no references were consulted, promise
Can’t for the life of me remember any other pitchers from the ‘72 team that won the division. Damn!
Hoyt Axton? Milt Wilcox? Don Ho?
Sean: pretty good, position players I think you got all right, those four were the outfield.
McClain was long gone. I don’t remember the rest of the staff.
Woody Fryman and Fred Sherman I recall, that’s all I’ve got.
I just looked up the 72 tigers, I had forgotten Gates and Ike Brown
Sam
Good and timely stats on Robertson. Depressing, but much appreciated just the same.
John Hiller? Joe Sparma?
Fryman, yeah, comes back to me. How could I forget Gates Brown, perhaps the best pinch-hitter of all-time at that point, maybe among the top ones still. GATES BROWN! Yeah. I listened to those games like my life depended on it - how can I have forgotten all this?
I know Leyland is trying to reduce the pressure on Larrish by having hit lower in the order, but wouldn’t having hit 5th in front of Caberra make it a better balanced middle of the order lineup and make the pitcher more likely to throw better hitter’s pitches to him, rather than hitting in front of Renteria?
Yeah, Hiller. Wasn’t he the heart attack guy?
Must sound like the Old Fogey Revival going on here.
From today’s Beck’s Blog:
“The only immediate change to come out of Leyland’s brainstorming session Thursday was Miguel Cabrera’s move from fifth to sixth in the batting order. Marcus Thames gets the fifth slot as Leyland tries to ride the hot bat, but even if he cools off, that might not move up Cabrera.”
Observations:
1. There is an oxymoron there.
2. Can Thames, who had 13 PA in the last week, actually be considered a “hot bat”, or am I misinterpreting Beck’s comment (assuming a metaphor where none exists)?
Sean, you are correct on the heart attack guy.
I guess you could change lineups all the time. Maybe this will get Leyland fired the way moving Pudge got Trammel the pink slip.
Hiller did have a heart attack, and I believe that by ‘72 he had recovered, which made his career such a nice human interest story besides the fact that he was so good.
“Leyland Brainstorming”: for some reason the only image coming to mind is the basement of the 70’s show, with coaches is a smoke filled haze coming up with possible ideas.
Vince
You have to understand things in context. For the Tigers, a “hot bat” is anyone who managed to drive in a run during the previous game.
This is the way to start.
I know that Curtis has been in a slump, and had a hand injury early, but what is with the lack of speed? He has played in 32 games with only 2 steals. Are the Tigers holding him, bad situations, or does he have some conditioning or leg issues?
I’m stepping away for a while. Give some good details, ladies and gentlemen - I’ll be back to read your spellbinding account later.
I’m following this on Gameday. On MLB’s site it show’s Inge’s triple being out of the park, was it a ground rule triple?
Sean, Detroit has scored 7 runs in top of 1st……………10 batters so far….
80 comments already? Nice work people.
I kinda feel bad for SEA, ridiculous as that sounds.
Inge hit it to the warning track over Ichiro’s head. Rod and Mario can’t believe how shallow he is playing and now he has been burned twice!
I love Carlos Silva..
Game day finally put up the highlight. Good start.
Wow, what an Inning. The only Tiger hitter to either not get a hit or not get an RBI is the best hitter on the team.
Speaking of the 60’s….I used to see and attend all thos games. Mickey Lolich and I even worked for Mike Illitch back then when Little Ceaser’s was just a Detroit area chain. Mickey worked the off-season in a restaurant that Illitch owned. Last I heard he had a donut shop somewhere.
Anyway, this is how to start the game, but I’d like to see the 7 run lead hold up.
Brandon can do no wrong!……….Sean, you missed one of his great catches…….and he’s is behind the plate tonight!
Cabrera needed to hustle a bit more on that foul
Why just seven, Dickey wasn’t effective last time, so lets get to him again. We tanked against the Angels after we got 2 in the first, so we just have to keep going after it.
It’s inconceivable to me why anyone would give Silva 40 mil for 4 years, but then Barry Zito’s contract didn’t make any sense to me either.
Check that - 48 mil - even worse.
Nice play by Inge, did he pick it up late, or was did it just look that way.
Have to go. Go Tigers.
Thames has hit 2 rockets barely foul that would have both been homers. I don’t think Shef will be seeing his name any time in the Tiger line-up soon if this keeps up.
Mash away in the first, then pffft…
I hope 7 is enough tonight.
A seven run inning and then ZZZZZZZZ. Where have I seen this before?
They fell asleep like the Pistons in the 4th
Before long the American League is going to learn that tigers have a heck of a hard time hitting anything that is not a fast ball.
please get to Dickey. How long can he last?
ZZZZZZZZZZ
I would like to put it out there that I will be at all three of the Tigers v A’s game if any West Coasters are going to the games. I will take my lap top to at least one game to give some posts from the Park. Any way to post pictures?
P.S. My apologies for my last post, regarding showing Jim the door. However, even he is saying he’s not pressing the right buttons.
I think they should start keeping stats on Thame’s hang time on pop flies.
One Last observation. When will the rest of the nation realize that Inge is one of the Premier defensive players in baseball. At any position.
Somehow I’m getting flashbacks to Minnesota & Boof Bosner
tiff - dickey could go all night with that knuckler…
Sorry about the Pistons folks….. Time to jump on the Laker bandwagon…… GO LAKERS!!!!!!
A lot of 3-ball counts from Robertson tonight. With a 7-run ( I mean 6, I mean 5) lead, you’d think he would just be pumping strikes in there - he must not be very sharp this evening.
OK. No more strikes pitched to Adrian Beltre with bases empty…..
Robertson looks very vulnerable. I hope Leyland sees this…the only problem is we have NO ONE we can rely on to replacce him. Unless Gallaraga can pitch on 1 day rest. Lew Burdette did in 57 World Series.
THAMES WITH MEN ON COMING UP!!!
Tigers were aggressive in the 1st, making contact early in the count. That was very good with Silva, but now with Dicky, they should be trying to grind-out their ABs, running up the pitch count and drawing walks.
ZZZZZZZZZ
that’s the secret to pitching success against the tigers… throw a 50mph knuckleball!
Sky - Robertson has had 2 hits against him, both home runs by the same guy. 2 hits through 5.
How well does he have to pitch to not look vulnerable?
You’re right, Chris. But the Tigers seem to get into a funk after scoring a lot in one inning……..at least most of the time. Especially when an off-speed pitcher comes in. They get keyed into fast balls and that’s it. Good hitters know how to adjust to different pitching. I just do not always see it with them.
Well, at least Thames was “hot” for one at-bat.
Here it comes, Tiger fans!
There’s Nate’s standard 4-run outing. Can they hang on?
Is there anyone who does not have a very strong sense that the Tigers will somehow lose this game?
We got a game now.
Sky - forgive me for my transgressions. I was wrong.
Look, the Tigers this year have not been able to hold on to leads like this more than once. Either the other team scores nothing, and we win……..but once they sense they have a chance, they always seem to do so.
Adam, I thought he was vulnerable because his control is not sharp. He got a couple DP’s, the drive Thames got, and some other breaks. But he has gone to 3 balls on a lot of hitters. That makes him vulnerable.
“Is there anyone who does not have a very strong sense that the Tigers will somehow lose this game?”
I’ll be surpassed if they actually do win this game.
Have no fear Sky, we’ve got them right where they want us.
Frankly, I have always found Robertson a gamble. He reminds me of the Joe Sparma mentioned above who played years ago for Detroit. He is a good pitcher to get the basic job done, but without run and defense support, he is much more likely to lose. 5 good innings is about all you can expect.
He is a reliable starter because he can start. But he is not a reliable winner.
If Dolsi can get through the 7th inning, Leyland can go to his 8th-inning set-up man Cruceta, and we’ll be in like Flint.
Robertson manages to keep his ERA a tick under 6.00, which is about where it belongs.
ZZZZZZZZ
Well, we are through the 7th. Maybe the Tigers can do it. Maybe………but I remain very worried. This is the kind of game where Jones might end up giving up tying or winning runs in the 9th. He is not that hard to hit, you know.
Vince…jeez. Seven runs early is better than never. Quit complaining.
Did you all hear the Seattle announcer notice Miner’s ERA and say they want him to get in?
Can u believe that Miner is really pitching?
Leyland must be suicidal
I’d keep Dolsi out there. Just don’t trust Miner. He just doesn’t trust his stuff (perhaps with good reason, but that’s not good either).
Last year the Friday after Memorial Day was that game in Cleveland (the 4-run lead in the 9th) . . . I mention it to create a reverse jinx.
EDIT: Never mind. I’m sorry, Zach.
Did we only get to play one NL team for interleague play? Really?
Just kidding. We get to play all the California teams plus St. Louis in June.
Thank God. My summer could never be complete without seeing the Cardinals.
Cabrera, you are such a bust. Get off this team so we can give more time to young gritty players that CARE like Ron Bourquin.
hey all, just hopped on, looks like i missed a crazy first inning. and then the bats went to sleep after that? no!! the hell you say!! that never happens!
i haven’t checked the box, how did larish look in his debut?
dave bw, nice work keeping the “gritty grinder” theme going
Oh wow. Dave works in a Ronnie Bourquin reference. Well done, sir. Well done.
I was at the inspiring and heartwarming Pistons game and didn’t actually see him, but he apparently had one hit and got an RBI from a force out.