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PREGAME: First of all Memorial Day wishes go out to everyone. And for those of you who are veterans or are currently serving…Thank You for all you do.
The Tigers head west for 9 games starting off with the Angels. Maybe the schedule makers did the Tigers a small favor. The Angels were in Chicago for Sunday Night Baseball last night so they probably got in about 5 hours after the Tigers did last night.
As for the game itself, it will be Kenny Rogers against Jon Garland.
Garland has been pitching to contact as evidenced by the 14 strikeouts he’s amassed in 64.1 innings. But he’s been on a roll his last 4 starts with a 2.25 ERA in 28 innings of work with opponents only mustering a .543 OPS against.
Rogers has been the weak link the last 2 times through the rotation only making it through 9.1 innings in his last 2 starts combined while allowing 19 hits, 3 for home runs. He hasn’t faced the Angels since September 2006 when he pitched 7 innings of 4-hit, shut out ball.
DET @ LAA, Monday, May 26, 2008 Game Preview - Baseball-Reference.com
Game Time 9:05
POSTGAME: Why does this team hate us fans so?
- Garland who doesn’t strike out anyone fanned 5.
- Kenny Rogers was awesome going 7 strong innings. Now all the Tigers starters have ERAs under 6!
- Freddy Dolsi showed me something tonight. He fanned Vlad Guerrero which is impressive in its own right. But when everyone failed to call time and Torri Hunter alertly took 2nd base, and during the subsequent intentional walk Dolsi threw a ball away, he didn’t get rattled. His next 2 pitches were strikes, the 2nd resulting in a bouncer to first base.
- Carlos Guillen with 2 more errors, and some excellent at-bats.
- Gary Sheffield is out with an oblique/back thingy.
- Ryan Raburn fanned twice and popped out in his place.
- A 4 pitch walk is no way to end this game. Especially to someone who doesn’t really walk. Only one of the pitches was close, and to be fair the Tigers took a ton of close pitches that went as balls. I have no problem with the calls in that at-bat. You have to put it near the plate.
- The Tigers have 11 bases loaded walks now this year. They had 9 all of last year.
{ 191 comments… read them below or add one }
If Kenny struggles tonight, then I would definitely think it is time for him to go on the DL with tired arm. The old man needs a break, perhaps.
God, Cabrera is such an easy out. Here he meekly swings at the very first pitch, which was way inside.
If I were Leyland, I would drop this bag of marshmallows down in the order. Pitchers have no reason to challenge Magglio.
Great clutch hitting guys…… Just freaking great
man. quiet in here.
Hey Mark. I’m taking a break from the repetitive histrionics tonight — I think other people may be doing the same.
So the Tigers score 19 runs in 5 innings on Saturday night and then go on to score 1 over the next 18. This team has just been incredibly frustrating to watch.
Nice work by Kenny tonight, though.
Sheffield left the game with what might have been a strained oblique. If he is DL’d, we can only pray that Guillen finally takes his place as DH.
3 great games tonite. 1 down,2 to go.
Tonight’s game epitomizes why this team has been so inconsistent at scoring. They squander early opportunities to get runs in and that allows the opposing starting pitcher to settle in with confidence. That’s when the door gets slammed shut(out).
You’re probably right, Mike. Personally I’ve been watching the Wings, and a little Pistons ,that undoubtedly plays a part, too.
Looks like Kenny has been sharp, but where’s the offense? M.I.A. again….
Sheff out, Guillen to DH, Tigers to the Toledo well to get either Larish or Hessman.
Tigers have scored 246 runs this year, which puts them in 7th in MLB for runs scored. When you subtract the two games where they scored 19 runs (-38), their run total is 208 (26th in the majors).
Carlos is killing us at 3rd.
Chris shut up. Seriously, can we get a gag order on Chris discussing Miguel Cabrera. There’s never been anyone so blatantly wrong in their opinion about a ballplayer in the history of time and space then right now. Dude is in the top 20 in OPS. If that’s sucking, then give me a team full of guys like him at the plate and I’ll churn out a nice 900 run offense, perennially. When he really heats up to Miguel Cabrera form, Chris, you should not be allowed to comment, congratulate, or even acknowledge his talents ever. Ever.
Kenny! I love you.
Just another day at the office for Carlos, phenomenal job by Rogers getting 4 outs in an inning at least thrice tonight due to Guillen’s D.
Cabrera is NOT in the top 20 in OPS in the majors…. Look it up.
Guillen, the inning extender. Offensively he works a 7 pitch AB that helped push Garland’s pitch count over 100 and flipped the lineup over to start the 8th. Defensively he makes Rogers throw 8 more pitches, perhaps brining his night to an earlier end.
The Tigers will win this game tonite. It’s Detroit’s nite. 2 down, 1 to go.
No, but he was 17th in the AL coming in to today. Look it up.
Is Leyland really pinching hitting Rayburn for Sheffield or is my gamecast thing on the fritz?
Come on Ryan. Just hit it hard.
Mike - Sheff left the game with a strained oblique. Raburn is his replacement.
Ok…thanks.
I’m rather heartbroken about Sheff, though…
Is bringing up Hessman an option? If Sheffield were to be DL’d, and Carlos was DH on a conistent basis, can Mike Hessman help this team?
Or is that a desperation move?
Or does it matter?
Wings look solid, by the way.
Go Tigs. Can’t wait to see them at the Safe this weekend…
I hate to stir the pot too much, but 17th in the AL is NOT 20th in the majors…. which is probably exactly why he said what he said. (I can only assume he would verify stats before spewing them)
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!@)(#)@!*)%(@^&!@$^&!@*^*$!@$&*!@$*!@$!@&*$!&*@$
Horrible execution. Horrible.
If I’m Kenny Rogers, I run something like 20 miles before my next start. Just in protest.
“No, but he was 17th in the AL coming in to today. Look it up.”
Big deal! That actually is not too impressive. And the guy hits absolutely nothing in clutch situations. That’s why he only has 26 RBIs while hitting 5th all year…. That’s pretty weak.
Why Miner…why….
Carlos!
You called him an average hitter earlier today. An average hitter wouldn’t make the top 20. You also said he sucks. You’re wrong. Get over it.
That’s that….game over…fricken stupid team….
I’m ’suffering’ here listening to the Angels broadcasters, and their incessant whining that close, but obvious balls, are not called strikes. They even admit that none of them are over the plate, but they think the umpire should call a ball a strike because their pitcher is ‘executing his pitches’(throwing exactly where the catcher is setting up).
The reason Miner is pitching Brenden is like the reason we don’t try suicide squeeze plays. It takes brains to put someone on the mound to get it done. On the other hand, as soon as we get into our relief, if we really need it, there is no experience or reason to believe this year that we will get it.
Can anyone tell me the last time our relief pitchers have not failed us in a close case like this one?
The truth is that tonight both starters did excellent jobs and the hitters have just failed in times of need…….on both teams. So far………
I told my wife Miner will walk in the deciding run. Gee I hope I am wrong……but so far………..
It’s not the fact that Miner is in the game. It’s the fact that there is nobody warming up after the first 4 pitch walk. That is the mind boggling stupid part.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! I mean. Whatever.
why not bring in a lefty here?
Yikes.
Kevin - Kotchman is leading the league in batting average against lefties. Pretty dramatic reverse split.
After that, it’s definitely in the stars. Tigers win.
Chris, Miggy doesn’t hit in the clutch? Is that why his OPS with Men on base is .876 where as his overall OPS is .823?
Angels fans have a serious beef with that 2nd ball. That should have been a strike. But I won’t complain.
Stupid……stupid……..stupid……………
i mean the steal attempt……….of course, it would have been brilliant if he had made it………….
Mike, what is OPS? Seriously, I never heard of this.
Oh, Leyland is just tempting fate now. Leaving Miner in another inning? You don’t dodge two bullets.
I’ve loved every minute of this game.
I would have really been disappointed if Leyland had not sent Carlos against that pitcher.
Worse than the Tigers 0-9 with RISP tonight is the 0-4 with a runner at third and less than two outs. One simple sacrifice is all that was needed. TJ should be in there right now getting Kenny a win.
Although, Miner (Grilli II) is not my favorite pitcher in these situations. Let’s hope for the best!
For some reason the suicide sacrifice has never been part of Tiger baseball…at least not since Ty Cobb played. I am not sure why, but it is fun to watch.
Maggs never makes that play! Woo hoo! Come on boys.
And the guy hits absolutely nothing in clutch situations.
“He never hits in the clutch” is the last refuge of someone who won’t look up the numbers.
Don’t feel too bad Tbone…….Angels fans are just as frustrated right now. I’m right down the road from the game and I know.
Whewwwww.
Check out “late and close” for a better idea of clutchiness this year:
http://www.baseball-reference......itua-clutc
Sky - looking at the respective records, I’m not feeling a whole lot of pity for the Angel fans!
They’re just trying to upstage the Pistons and Red Wings. Go Tigers.
This is a heartbreak waitin to happen for one of these teams.
Someone needs to crank one out of here…
You know what they say, a wild pitch is as good as a sac bunt!
Here we go.
What a waste…
Good swing by Granderson, too bad it was just hit in the wrong place.
Would be nice to have a lefty pinch hitter here.
Good swing by Granderson, too bad it was hit right at somebody.
WHAT THE HECK WAS HE SWINGING AT!?!?!
Oh well, time to call it a night. Good luck to the guys.
Shoot!
A fastball.
Brenden,
He was swinging at a fastball.
This one could go all night . . . it already has
Had him all the way.
Nice swing by Granderson, just bad luck where it was hit.
Nice swing by Granderson, just too bad it went right at Vlad.
and dolsi strikes out vlad
Freddy,Freddy,Freddy
With the 9 o’clock start I figured this was the one I could stay up for . . .
What was that nonsense?
Oh my god
Even worse…
Thanks for the shout out billfer! As a proud USN rescue swimmer, I can say that the reason we sacrifice is for things like baseball. I never served in Iraq, but I was deployed to Yemen when the U.S.S.Cole was attacked. And I loved nothing more than to hear updates on our local teams. My father would send me the box scores, and updated standings; from the Ann Arbor News of every game the Tigers, Lions, Pistons, and Wolverines played. So to any brothers and sisters still serving that may read this…..STAY STRONG!!!!
Oh my gosh……..and that is a loss…unfreaking believable…not the end of the world Rod? let’s be serious….
Kid and Little League stuff!…Way to go Dolsi………maybe you shuold learn the game before getting a contract.
People who make mistakes like this do not deserve a win………..
I am sooo sick of intentional walks!
Holy moly, what’s going on here.
This is awesome. This is how we’re going to lose.
COME ON!!!! woohooo
Oh my gosh……
Boy, did we get lucky there!
You know what? As ridiculous as that was, I have to give credit to Dolsi for composing himself. He could have easily forgotten how to throw a baseball altogether at that point.
Aaaaaaand I keep getting proved wrong.
Definitely, billfer. He very easily could have gone all Rick Ankiel.
This game is getting rather silly…….and it is late even here in So CAl.
Wheewww!
Damn Magglio, anywhere but dead center.
Wasn’t there a game out here last year that went 0-0 into the 12th and then Craig Monroe hit a grand slam and we won the game 4-1?
Yeah, Craig Monroe was on our team last year. Anyway, let’s see if history repeats itself.
Dolsi was just toying with ‘em.
This is the most entertaining game of the season.
With that ice in his veins and a little experience, Dolsi could be good, assuming he survives long enough.
Most entertaining game for all the wrong reasons it seems. I didnt really start watching til after the Pistons/Wings though.
About a dozen comments got caught in the spam filter. Just let them out. Sorry about that.
Yak - no, thank you!
So….how many innings is this game going to last? Any guesses?
Aaaaand here we go again. I wonder if when a Tigers fan dies and goes to hell, he has to watch a scoreless extra-inning game like this for the rest of eternity.
It’s time to put Inge at 3rd.
My wife is making me switch to the Bachelorette in between innings…… Man, that show is like nails to the chalkboard.
Carlos making up for all his errors? I don’t believe!
I hope there is someone out there warming up.
Does it annoy anyone else that the most advanced statistic we see in a Tigers Telecast is the number of runners Left on Base when they show the scoreboard going to commercial? Can they throw us an OBP bone with the avg/hr/rbi’s when the hitter comes to the plate or something?
Survey says: Probably no one warming up.
Edit: Annnnnddddd I’m wrong. Seay is up in the Pen.
Can we just lose already?
Who would you warm up? Dolsi’s pitching reasonably well. No one in the bullpen is lights out. If Dolsi falls apart, the game will be over before you can do anything about it.
Making the kid face Vlad twice. Tough.
Game over. Good night, folks. See you again tomorrow night.
A DP is a must here, this game is done even if Anderson gets retired and it’s 2 outs with Napoli coming up.
Billfer, you got your wish, Leland is warming of Dtrain!
Mike…it’s already over. It was over in the eighth inning when we had a guy on third with one out and couldn’t get him home.
Could this have ended any other way? Sigh.
Or we’ll just walk in the winning run. At least the celebration will be subdued since it wasn’t that dramatic.
Heartbreak Hotel!
Wow… Walk in the game winning run. Unbelievable.
This is what I wrote at 11:42 pm:
On the other hand, as soon as we get into our relief, if we really need it, there is no experience or reason to believe this year that we will get it.
Can anyone tell me the last time our relief pitchers have not failed us in a close case like this one?
A grand slam would have hurt less.
The epitomy of the season so far.
Can someone explain to me about Tori Hunter’s steal of 2nd. Was that a legitimate steal. Were the Tigers just not paying attention?
LOL!
Sky
Relievers gave us 4 scoreless innings of relief tonight. Kind of hard to win when you have ZERO run support.
Cite the bullpen “choking” in a close situation all you want, but I really don’t think the pitching is responsible for a game that goes into the 12th without a run scored by either team. Weak logic.
Billfer, you are a lot younger than me and I am sorry to see you expend so much energy producing a nice site like this only to see this kind of thing over and over. You and all Tiger fans deserve better than a 4 pitch walk to lose a game we should have won long before the 12th.
The whole team owes an apology to Detroit beginning with Illitch on down. I really mean that. Failure in good competition is one thing. Outright athletic incompetence is another. As someone said, I grand slam would have been less painful, and less embarassing.
The team looks like a laughingstock over and over because of these events and others like them.
It was legit, Kathy. No one called timeout and Hunter is free to run any point he wants when there was no time called.
All the talent in the world does not equal team.
Team creates new heroes every night…and does not tolerate playing not to lose.
Team does not regard expectations, they simply do their jobs.
Team is easy to see, but difficult to create.
Clearly this group of individuals is not a team. I’m not sure that the architects, in their haste to pull the deal of the century, gave much thought to the chemistry (or lack thereof) they were creating…
Their embarrassment is now on a personal level and will only ensure we continue to consume this dismal showing. The game, the season, and this team is lost.
Chemistry didn’t fail to drive in a run. Chemistry did not walk in the winning run. Chemistry did not make multiple errors in this game. Chemistry did not pull someone’s oblique.
Chemistry, to me, is the furthest thing from the root of the problem.
I thought the Tigers played their hearts out for this game and were really trying to win it. The pitching was awesome on both teams and Angels fans were probably having fits over RISP just like we do. Kenny was terrific, that great catch by Maggs, but just couldn’t get the run in when they needed it. Still, a great pitcher’s duel against an excellent team. Hope tomorrow goes our way (Our Father, Whom Art in Heaven……).
Mike R, you’re right. Chemistry does not actually have anything to do with the team’s problems. The team is just poorly constructed. So for the sake of those who continue to freak out every time somebody says something that isn’t attached to a number, or relies on a metaphorical description that arises from our common cultural heritage, let’s call it something other than chemistry. Good lord.
I have to say though, your latest freak out on Chris was hilarious.
This offense is just plain inconsistent and disappointing. They either seam to destroy sub-mediocre pitching or they shut-down against anybody pitching anything remotely effective. They don’t seam to find ways to break down and break through better pitching.
Perhaps this has to do with a tendency for 1st, 2nd, 3rd pitch swinging and too much aggressiveness. This works great when pitchers are struggling, but is fails consistently whenever pitching is doing well.
BTW, I know some Angel fans here in La-La land who are extremely grateful they did not get the trade for Cabrera. Too bad for us, they lost out on the deal.
Joey C., I, personally, just don’t believe that in the most individualistic ‘team’ sport in this country, that chemistry is an overwhelming part of the ball club. Yes, I’m a stats geek at heart, but I don’t discount chemistry simply because a number is not attached to it, I just don’t see how a team that ‘gets along’ well is apt to drive in more runs, pitch better, and/or just perform at a higher level. Some of the most productive teams were known for their clubhouse volatility (the A’s and the Yankees in the past few decades come to mind) more than their on field play.
And Chris really is one of the main reasons i don’t even post in the game threads often at all. I lived in the DTW game threads when the Tigs were on last summer and the 2nd half of 06. Now, he just spouts out irrational things and then completely ignores any and all rebuttals and the ferocity and quantity of his posts just really drag it down for me.
I still read the site pretty much daily and correspond with Billfer every so often on different stat-geeky-things. Gets me by.
Mike R,
nothing I say about Cabrera is irrational. You’ve got to admit, he has been greatly disappointing, even if he is above average in some statistical factors.
He’s not driving in a lot of runs, he’s not getting key hits, he’s not getting game winning hits, he’s not hitting for a high average, and he is not become any kind of offensive presence in the line-up at all.
Admit it Mike, he’s not anywhere close to what you imagined before the season started. He’s a massive disappointment.
Chris, he’s a disappointment, but he’s far from a massive disappointment. This Cabrera we’re seeing is still an above average (by a fair margin) hitter who is young, and his 4 year track record being nearly identical to Hank Aaron’s first 4 years in the majors, doesn’t leave me with a sour taste in my mouth or even upset that he isn’t at Miguel Cabrera numbers quite yet. I don’t find him a disappointment as (1) I think his quad bothered him a lot longer than anyone talked about it and (2) he is learning a new position. Neither of those affecting his play make him a ‘massive disappointment’ to me in the least. Facts are if I can get a top 20 league OPS from a kid who isn’t even 25 years old yet whose track record indicates he’s actually under-performing from his normal water marks, I’m actually quite optimistic.
Never mind the fact that you don’t acknowledge how locked in he’s been recently. Coming into tonight, his last 12 games (49 PA’s) have yielded a .357/.429/.548 line for a .977 OPS while hitting 5 doubles, 1 HR, 6 BB’s, 10 K’s in that span.
Also, as for the ‘chemistry’ issue, this post at the U.S.S. Mariner blog pretty much sums up everything I feel on the subject. It’s the most well-reasoned, well-thought out, and eloquent pieces I have come across on the subject. I think it’s a must read for everyone.
Giving up one run in 12 innings of course is fine, but the way it ended points to a larger issue: The pitchers’ walk rate has been huge, they’ve basically been allowing 1+ more baserunner per game–and in falling behind on counts they’ve had to come in. They don’t seem to trust their stuff.
Obviously the pitching was good enough last night, but the ending gets back to one of the underlying issues: the walk rate has soared this year.
“There’s never been anyone so