Game 46: Mariners at Tigers

PREGAME: My goodness, wouldn’t it be nice to win back to back games? The last time that happened the Tigers were in New York.

A chunk of the responsibility tonight falls on Kenny Rogers. Rogers was knocked around to the tune of 11 hits and 7 runs in only 4 innings in his last start against the Royals. The 24 walks and 23 K’s in 47.1 innings are pretty ugly, as re the 5 homers. Rogers has limited Ichiro to a .551 OPS but the rest of the Mariners hit him to the tune of .762.

The hitters should be able to carry over the pounding of last night on to Jarrod Washburn. He’s left handed and not that good. But the Tigers have made lesser pitchers look dominant so I don’t know what to expect. One interesting split for Washburn this year is performance on first pitches. When put in play hitters are only 1 for 16 this year. Small samples to be sure but unusual. Also, even when hitters fall behind 0-1 they still hit 317/358/584 against Washburn this year. The career numbers are a 820 OPS for first pitch in play and 242/285/377 after 0-1 which is more telling. So swing away on the first pitch!
SEA @ DET, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 Game Preview –

POSTGAME: I missed most of this one. Acutally, I missed all of the Tigers scoring, but say the near implosions by Kenny Rogers.

But looking at the box score (and the parts of the game I saw):
rogers=not so good

All the starters got hits, but it was Marcus Thames and his granny, and Brandon Inge and his double and triple that drove home 6 of the 9 runs.

Zach Miner allowed 1 baserunner in 2.2 innings to pick up a rough night from Rogers.

That’s all I have tonight. Back to back wins are too rare, but still appreciated.

Tigers 9, Mariners 4


  1. West Coast Tiger

    May 21, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    The other day there were some comments comparing Mags and Kirk Gibson.

    I’d like to share a few up close and personals regarding Kirk Gibson.

    #1 1984 A girlfriend of mine and I were subjected to an outrageously vulgar outburst from a drunken Gibson and his sidekick Dave Rozema at RoosterTail one night, because we parked too close to his car. He didn’t let it stop there and continued to harass me and my friend for the next hour inside.

    19 years later

    #2 2003 I took my daughter Meghan (8 yrs old at the time) to her first Tiger game. The Tigers were in town vs. the A’s. We had the absolute best seats thanks to a friend of mine. You actually use the same entrance as the players to get to your seats passing the clubhouses on the way. The Tigers were 1-17. Bonderman was pitching. I believe it was his first win.

    We were there early and got a lot of autographs Tram was great, Lance Parish was really cool posing for a photo with us. Inge signed Meg’s hat wth the following, Meghan -Have a great first game-Brandon Inge. I asked Gibson to come over. He snarled, “not now”. Tram heard this, said, and I quote “ Gibby, We’re 1 and 17, they’re Tiger fans, they’ve got the best seats in the house and it’s the little girls first game. Get over there and sign her hat. He did so as an A’s fan said something about still being as big a jerk now as he was in LA. After he signed her hat, I said, “You haven’t changed much since the Rooster Tail”. I’m sure he had no Idea what I was talking about but it made me feel good to finally get the last word. He wouldn’t sign his card from 84 which I brought with me. Parrish and Trammel did.

    Thank you to Jeremy Bonderman

    After his initial warm-up, on his way to the clubhouse prior to the game, Bonderman walked over and gave Meghan a ball and signed it. He won that night and it still sits on her nightstand as one of her prize possessions. JB if you read this, Thanks. In that moment you made a little girl, my little girl, a Tiger fan for life.

    Bondo’s stats that night 8 innings, 1 run, 3 Hits, 5 k’s, 0 walks.
    Anderson got the save

    In my mind there is no comparing Gibson and Mags. Hair or lack there of doesn’t make the player.

    Don’t misunderstand me I appreciate all his on-field contributions as a Tiger.

  2. Ken from Cincinnati

    May 21, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Very revealing and interesting anticdotes, West Coast. Thanks for sharing. I understand that 2003 was a tough year on everyone and the players and coaches have a right to be irritated because they are human like us, but the character of a man is most transparent when he’s down. It sounds like Alan was a true class act, while Gibby was just another honored meathead. Does anybody have any stories to the contrary, because I was too young to get a good feel for the man.

  3. Mike

    May 21, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    I grew up playing baseball in the summer with Gibson’s two sons. They were stuck up jerks from what I remember but I’ve met Rozema a couple times and he’s a nice guy.

  4. Fritz

    May 21, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    I missed the thread. What were folks saying about Mags?

  5. albot

    May 21, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    Wow, reminds me of my first childhood Tigers game, where we waited after the game for the players to sign autographs and as Jack Morris came out he told me “Get outta my way kid.” I still ended up a Tigers fan for life, but I’m still waiting for my chance to tell him to get out of My way. LOL

  6. Jeremy

    May 21, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    Sheffield must have something on the skip. No sane mgr would be playing this fool period, let alone in the third spot again and with pudge leading off, maybe he should be the one looking in the mirror.

  7. Kyle J

    May 21, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    I missed the thread. What were folks saying about Mags?

    That his hair is too long.

    And I forget what else.

    Hard to come up with a lot more to complain about.

  8. Neal in SD

    May 21, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Sheff probably has some incriminating photos of Leyland with the Marlburo (don’t know how to spell it) Man, or with Joe Camel. Although I think Leyland is old enough that Sheff may have some shots of him and the original camel.
    It would explain a lot.

  9. West Coast Tiger

    May 21, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Jeremy- very funny stuff- the imagination runs wild.. but then again some pretty bad visuals.

    Fritz – There were the hair comments, but I saw a comment maybe another site That Gibson should come in and teach Mags to have a killer instinct.

  10. Neal

    May 21, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    I speculate that people like Gibson because he brings the “football” mentality to baseball. Either that or his great hair.
    Maybe he and Maggs could pose as a Propecia/Hair transplant before and after shot.

  11. JOE Z

    May 21, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    pudge singled? surprising.

  12. Brian in Tampa

    May 21, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Oh my God! Inge got a clutch 2 out hit.

  13. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Inge with the big hit, nice!

  14. Adam

    May 21, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    Gee. Thanks Kenny.

  15. Jeff

    May 21, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    There must have been really good chemistry in the clubhouse today, that’s the only possible explanation for a 2-out hit [/sarcasm]

  16. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Haha, Jeff. Trying to stir the pot, are we?

    Sheff should be bunting here…

  17. Brian in Tampa

    May 21, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Hell just froze over. Inge a 2 run 2 out hit, now Sheffield with a hit after a leadoff single.

  18. Brian in Tampa

    May 21, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    Hey Jeff I think they are past chemistry and into biology.

  19. Brian P

    May 21, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    These 85 mph fastballs must be looking quite juicy. Can Thames blast one?

  20. Brian in Tampa

    May 21, 2008 at 7:57 pm


  21. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    Free Marcus Thames!!

  22. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    Nice call, Brian in Tampa

  23. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    er, nice call Brian P.

  24. Brian in Tampa

    May 21, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    I’m calling final score tonight = 13-9

  25. Brian in Tampa

    May 21, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Just Kidding

  26. Kyle J

    May 21, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    You could sense the grand slam coming (as Brian P did). When five straight guys have hit the ball solidly against a left-handed pitcher, the odds of Thames going deep are pretty good.

  27. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    I’m surprised Seattle went with a lefty out of the pen given the Tigers’ all-RH lineup.

  28. Brian in Tampa

    May 21, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    Yeah Mark, that’s kinda strange.

  29. Adam

    May 21, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    Gee. Thanks Marcus.

  30. Kyle J

    May 21, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    Classic Rod Allen earlier tonight, after Washburn got buzzed by a line drive:

    “He oughta check his britches.”

  31. Brian P

    May 21, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    Hmm. With a significant lead, do you think we’ll see Willis finish the game in relief?

  32. Brian in Tampa

    May 21, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    This is a little off topic. If you live in Detroit Sat. night what game do you try to go to. Pistons, Wings, or Tigers. That is just amazing.

  33. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Good question, Brian P. I’d like to see him go, frankly. Let’s see if we can’t get him straightened out.

  34. Neal

    May 21, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    Based on Gameday, it looks like Willis has already come into the game by possessing the Gambler.

  35. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    eesh. ugly, ugly inning for kenny, but minimal damage…

    Brian P. we may see Dontrelle after all, could use some innings about now.

  36. JML

    May 21, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    Miner. Damn, I thought we might win this one… 😛

  37. Adam

    May 21, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    Gee, thanks Kenny.

  38. Sky

    May 21, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    Tiger fans…….be ready for a heartbreaker! I am stealing my emotions for it now. Like wathcing your son from a distance drive close to a cliff hoping he won’t go in and knowing from experience he will come very close and maybe will go over.

  39. Adam

    May 21, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    Beltre was right about that one. Polly’s double was well foul.

  40. Dave BW

    May 21, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    sky — wait, why is your son driving on cliffs so often, and how has he survived falling off of them? Are we talking about multiple children?

  41. Sky

    May 21, 2008 at 9:30 pm

    Dave, it’s just his way…………only one but has some dangerous habits. Like the Tigers.

  42. yak

    May 21, 2008 at 9:30 pm


  43. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 9:30 pm

    Nice job by Miner.

  44. yak

    May 21, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    Wooo Cru Crew!!!!!

  45. Vince in MN

    May 21, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    So, how long does Rogers stay in the rotation – 8 hits, 3 walks, 2 more homers in 5.1 – not very good. Again.

  46. Mark in Chicago

    May 21, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    hey, two in a row, whaddya know?

  47. Chris

    May 21, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    If you think that Rogers can’t stay in the rotation, then who’s going to replace him?

  48. Dave BW

    May 21, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    Man is Inge fun to watch at third.

  49. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 21, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    All right!! Caught the last bit. Highlights, please. Pile it on, don’t worry about redundancy.


  50. Kyle J

    May 21, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    Five straight singles and a Marcus Thames dinger.

    There’s your highlight. A lineup built for the big inning had one.

  51. Vince in MN

    May 21, 2008 at 10:25 pm


    At some point (hopefully sooner rather than later) we may have to accept the fact that Rogers is more of a liability than an asset. I assume Willis is not going to remain in the bullpen for very long, at which point, barring a complete collapse by Galarraga, it would make sense to keep him as the No. 5 and jettison Rogers. If Willis doesn’t work out, then it maybe taking a chance on someone from the minors could e in order. I know no one likes to think of having two rookies in the starting rotation, but let’s face it, Kenny isn’t getting the job done, and hasn’t for well over a year. Injuries and age may well have caught up to him

  52. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 21, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    Kyle J

    Five straight singles and a Marcus Thames dinger. There’s your highlight.

    Half an hour, and those are my highlights? That’s weak. That’s horse____. You wanna give me f_____ highlights like that, I’ll give you highlights like that, and it ain’t gonna be pretty. I don’t have to sit here waiting night after night after night after night, cause I’ll go somewhere else, and I’ll put a name to it. Right there in the f_____ address bar.

    Seriously, thanks. Grand slam for Marcus – I’ll take it. Can’t wait to watch it at work tomorrow.

    I think the Leyland rant is out of my system now. Maybe.

  53. Dave BW

    May 21, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    Vince — Well over a year would suggest earlier than May 21, 2007. At one point in that period was Kenny “not getting the job done”? Hell, he even won his first three starts in ’07 (June 22, 28, and July 4) while allowing a total of two earned runs. Even if you’re solely referencing his injury, “well over a year” ago Kenny hadn’t even been on the DL for two months!

  54. Dave BW

    May 21, 2008 at 11:05 pm

    Every member of the starting lineup had a hit by the third inning, Sean. It was impressive.

  55. Vince in MN

    May 21, 2008 at 11:57 pm


    I stand corrected on the time-line. But since Rogers return from the DL at the end of last season he has been largely ineffective. His ERA is 6.66 after tonight and his WHIP is approaching 2.0, BAA .330, 7HR in 52 IP – the guy is getting lit up.

  56. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 21, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    Thanks, Dave. I hope we don’t see a repeat of the way things went after the Texas series, where it seemed like the Tigers had used up all their offense against a weaker team and then went back into hibernation for the next series.

  57. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 22, 2008 at 12:15 am

    What was Rogers’s problem tonight? Not throwing strikes? Getting ahead and then nibbling his way into trouble? Or just not fooling anyone with anything?

    The better side of Rogers is the way he is (or was) always getting into and out of jams like it was just part of a plan to toy with the other team. It’s like having Todd Jones start, except you feel less nervous, if only because there’s a whole lot of game left.

    Billfer has examined Verlander and Bonderman this year. Wonder what his thoughts are on what ails Kenny. More to it than “old”?

  58. Kathy

    May 22, 2008 at 7:41 am

    After the game, they did an interview with Kenny in the clubhouse. He agreed that he pitched good the first 4 innings, felt absolutely fine but threw bad pitches in the 5th. He was disappointed in himself that he didn’t pitch effectively further into the game. He says he’s gonna work on it. Maybe Billfer can do one of those charts showing where his pitches were going in the 5th.

  59. cib

    May 22, 2008 at 8:21 am

    Wow it was cold in the rain out there last night! Fun game, however, even with Kenny’s issues.
    Forget the egg rolls. It’s the cheeseburgers. I was on the Pepsi Porch last night with a group, with the buffet, and had a cheeseburger again. That seems to be the winning edge.
    Going over again for “lunch” today. Wonder what I’ll have . . .

  60. Kyle J

    May 22, 2008 at 8:40 am

    At this point, I’d say Sheffield and Rogers are the two big concerns–two guys who just may not return to their baseline level of production from previous seasons.

    I worry that the Tigers are the victims of thinking that guys approaching/over 40 could still produce consistently because Bonds and Clemens–who seem to have had some artificial help in extending their careers (not that Sheffield didn’t at some point)–were so spectacular over the 40-year mark.

  61. David G.

    May 22, 2008 at 9:35 am

    It’s not just those 2 guys, Maddux and Moyer also, both of whom are clearly not on the Juice.

    I actually let the Wife watch Idol for most of that 5th inning so I was under the impression that overall Kenny wasn’t too bad. But the Sheff situation is getting borderline ridiculous, esp. given the production in Toledo. C’mon, Gary, give up the ghost….it’s over, even the line drives you manage to put in play only get to the warning track.

  62. Kyle J

    May 22, 2008 at 10:06 am

    That’s a good point, David–particularly since Maddux and Moyer are probably better comparables for Rogers. And, in any event, the exposure for the Tigers is only a one-year, sub-$10 million deal.

    The combination of Sheffield’s big contract, hair-trigger disgruntlement, and Leyland’s stubbornness with regards to veterans players is the big bomb that is almost certain to go off at some point.

  63. Dave BW

    May 22, 2008 at 10:09 am

    No argument there, Vince.

    And yeah, Sean, off-hand I’d say all of those things were a problem for Kenny last night.

  64. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 22, 2008 at 10:25 am

    I noticed a comment about Inge getting the 2 run, 2 out hit. Now, I’m not boosting Inge here – Inge starting at 3B is one kind of trade-off, Guillen at 3B is another, and the Tigers have made their choice. Still, I knew Inge started off the season surprisingly well at the plate, and I wanted to see whether there was still some sign of life in his numbers despite the expected slip to a .232 BA.

    Inge ranks high in 2 out RBI. He has more than Cabrera in fewer at-bats. In fact, he has more converted more opportunities here per at-bat than anyone besides Santiago. I’n not saying he’s better than Cabrera, don’t worry. But in this sense he has outperformed Cabrera and many others.

    OPS with 2 outs: .991
    OPS with RISP: .798
    OPS RISP w/2 outs: .748 (and a .143 BA??)

    Something weird about those numbers, eh? Odd discrepancy between first and last. Inge may or may not be “clutch,” but you couldn’t fault anyone for getting that impression, not just from (some) numbers, but from simple game recollection (highly fallible, of course).

    One more thing:

    Hail Marcus, Slugger of Balls, play for us Tigers, now and instead of acquiring Barry Bonds. Amen.

  65. Kyle J

    May 22, 2008 at 11:00 am

    The problem for Rogers is that he works on such a fine margin–pitching just on/off the plate. The stats would indicate he’s lost the ability to hit the corners when he needs to. Over the last two seasons, he’s given up 52 walks in 115.2 innings. In the previous 5 seasons, he’d given up only 50-70 walks per year while pitching at least 195 innings in each season.

  66. Ryan In Brooklyn

    May 22, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Kyle, I think you’re onto something there. Indeed last night, Rogers was looking decent until the 5th inning when he started missing his spots and walked 3 – including the bases loaded walk.

  67. ron

    May 22, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    This is all due to the clubhouse uproar. I hope they keep it up. Let em’ be pissed off and overachieve, whatever it takes. It’s better than going through the motions and underachieving. Now if Maggs would just cut that hair…………

  68. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 22, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    It’s partially due to Seattle Mariners pitching, a kind of uproar in itself.

    If Maggs gets his hair cut, it’s all over. The future of our beloved team is held within those flowing locks.

    “So I took off my hat, said imagine that – me, workin’ for you.”

  69. ron

    May 22, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    Sean, this is going to be a real serious run, you’ll see. I can see them going 25 and 10 in the next 35. I think Leyland has saved his job by getting these guys back on track in a round about way. Wow, Sheffield and Maggs. Alright, forget about the hair.

  70. ron

    May 22, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    I believe he was safe, but we’ll take it. Nice slingshot throw.

  71. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 22, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Ron, I’ll wait and see how the Tigers do against the Twins. A sweep and I’m with you on 25-10 for the next 35. 2 of 3 will get ’em 20-15. Anything less and .500 will be a struggle. That’s my prophecy for the day.