Game 44: Tigers at Diamondbacks

PREGAME: If the Tigers keep playing like they have over their last 1 games, they’ll be back to .500 9 games from now. The Tigers will try to turn a win into a winning streak behind Nate Robertson.

Robertson took a no decision in his last start, one that saw him allow only 2 runs while scattering 10 hits over 7 innings. It was the first time this season he hadn’t allowed 4 or 5 runs.

The Tigers get to face a lefty in the form of Randy Johnson. Johnson has allowed quite a few hits this year, but is still fanning a batter an inning. Left handed batters have exactly 1 hit and 2 walks off of Johnson this year. So it’s probably a good idea that Curtis Granderson and Matt Joyce are out of the lineup. But with Carlos Guillen also getting the day off, the 3 spot looks empty with Edgar Renteria and his 633 OPS.

  1. Rodriguez, C
  2. Polanco, 2B
  3. Renteria, SS
  4. Ordonez, RF
  5. Cabrera, 1B
  6. Thames, LF
  7. Raburn, CF
  8. Inge, 3B
  9. Robertson, P

DET @ ARI, Sunday, May 18, 2008 Game Preview –

POSTGAME: Robertson looked dominant for a big chunk of this game, but in the end it was a typical Nate start with 5.2 innings and the customary 4 runs allowed. The only moment of the game where I can really fault him came in the 6th inning, where after an Ordonez error a third run scored. Following an intentional walk, an unglued Robertson walked Randy Johnson. Otherwise Nate pitched fine, but again it would have taken a shut out to even have a chance at a no decision.

In typical fashion the offense generated scoring chances early but did nothing with them. At least they got some doubles instead of the single-per-inning approach they took in Kansas City.

Last night it was Rodriguez who routinely killed scoring chances. Today it was Ordonez’s turn. In the first inning he ended a two-on, 1-out threat with a double play. In the 3rd it was a 2-on, 2-out situation ending in a full count tapper to the pitcher. He ended the day with a 1-on, 2-out, comebacker as well.
Game Time 4:10


  1. Chris in Nashville

    May 18, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Bilfer, that was a hilarious intro….well played sir.

  2. NM ni ecniV

    May 18, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    .snur fo tol a erocs lliw ti ekil kool ton seod puenil siht esuaceb ,(?toutuhs) raey eht fo emag tseb sih hctip retteb nostreboR

  3. ffeJ

    May 18, 2008 at 4:13 pm


  4. jason

    May 18, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    that backwards stuff got old after like 3 posts in the last game.

  5. ffeJ

    May 18, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    …reilrae tol a dlo tog semag eht fo %04 naht ssel gninniW

  6. McB.

    May 18, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    .nosrep sselemoh a ekil skool nosnhoJ ydnaR

  7. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    .ereh m’I. .sdrawkcaB

  8. Ken in Cincinnati

    May 18, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    .tih a tog egnI emit tsal eht rebmemer t’nac I

  9. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    .skcos hgih eht ekil I

  10. jason

    May 18, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    i cant believe i would say this, but i hope we lose.

    maybe it will stop the childish behavior here.

  11. NM ni ecniV

    May 18, 2008 at 4:35 pm



  12. Ken in Cincinnati

    May 18, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Damn children with their backwards talking and their hip-hop music.

  13. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Why can’t we get a double from the leadoff guy. We always need these two out hits, which we seem to rarely get.

  14. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    That was a nice at bat by Edgar. Let’s see if Magg’s can take a pitch…YES! He did!!

  15. Ken in Cincinnati

    May 18, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Nate looks great. He’s getting the ball over the plate. Skate, date, mate.

  16. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Jeff M.

    Hey, it’s a leadoff double. Good Call.

  17. NM ni ecniV

    May 18, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    .tuo mih ekat lliw dnalyeL nehw ,sgninni neves hguorht 36 s’tahT .sehctip 72 ylno – gnilaed s’etaN

  18. West Coast Tiger

    May 18, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Is it completely out of the ? to sac bunt Miguel to third. Last night and today?

  19. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Once again no productive outs. Sad.

  20. McB.

    May 18, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    Put down your purse and swing, Brandon.

  21. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    On the Dbacks call, they asked if Randy should walk Inge to get to Robertson. I started laughing my a$$ off.

  22. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Yeah, we got the lead off double but then CAN’T even get a ground ball to move him over let alone a hit. When we have runners on 1st and 2nd with less than two outs we get ground balls all day, which turn into double plays. Marcus Thames CANNOT strike out in that situation!

  23. Chris

    May 18, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Man, this team is so frustrating. Batting average drops like a stone whenever we get runners in scoring position. These guys are absolute chokers.

  24. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    That is funny! If Inge would just hit .250 he’d likely be back at 3rd and in the lineup regularly. He just simply can’t do it.

  25. Ken in Cincinnati

    May 18, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    I feel like we are owning this team right now, but we have nothing to show for it. We may have to rely on a solo shot or two, but then again, Joyce is the only guy with any power right now and he’s sitting the pine.

  26. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    God, here we go.

  27. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    This just in: The Tigers are interested in acquiring Justin Upton to use him strictly as a pinch runner…

  28. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    One out single. I bet we get a ground ball now.

  29. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Jeff. I need lotto numbers.

  30. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    aahhhh we got the ground ball but fortunately not of the double play variety.

  31. Chris

    May 18, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    Here’s a novel thought: let’s string together the hits in the SAME damn inning.

  32. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    I think winning the lottery would be a lot easier than figuring out the Tigers right now.

  33. Chris

    May 18, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Winning the lottery has better odds than the Tigers getting hits with runners in scoring position. That’s sad.

  34. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Do you smell that? It’s Nate melting down in the 5th.

  35. K-man

    May 18, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    Classic Nate

  36. McB.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:25 pm


  37. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Alright. Jeff call for a Dback DP.

  38. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:27 pm


  39. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Good job Nate! Throw Young the high cheese with the bases loaded. Let’s take away any chance of getting the ground ball.

  40. Chris

    May 18, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Of course, when we want to see clutch hitting, just watch the opposition.

  41. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Sorry Brian, I wasn’t feeling it…

  42. Sky

    May 18, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    The Tigers won by mistake yesterday. Glad to see they are back at their totally inept hitting and pitching. Life is better when it is predictable!

  43. K-man

    May 18, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Only two, big victory for Nate!

  44. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:32 pm


    I guess it could have been worse. The BIG UNIT could have got a hit. Only 2 runs out of that I’ll take it.

  45. ron

    May 18, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Let’s see if Leyland can motivate the troops.

  46. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    I enjoy listening to Mark Grace, but this other guy is just a butt-head.

  47. Sky

    May 18, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Five innings in a row with men on 2nd or one scored. The AZ announcers have not even mentioned it………seems the Tigers play so bad it is not even worth talking about anymore.

  48. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Way to answer boys.

  49. ron

    May 18, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    Man, they’re pounding the ball like Jimmy wanted them to.

  50. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    I think they’ve gotta get to Johnson in the 7th or they might be toast. The unfortunate thing is that our pitcher is due up 3rd in the inning and I don’t think we want to take him out of the game just yet.

  51. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Okay, maybe we do want to take him out. No killer instinct on this team!

  52. K-man

    May 18, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    That was pathetic

  53. Chris

    May 18, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    With every loss, I’m becoming evermore resentful of this team. Sky-high expectations for this offense and we get this? Pathetic! They make the San Diego Padres look like an offensive dynamo.

  54. Ken in Cincinnati

    May 18, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    Fire McClendon (sp?) now. What does it take to lose your job in the Tigers organization nowadays? A lineup of all-stars regressing into sucktitude? I guess not. I guess it’s perfectly fine if a batting coach actually makes our players worse. I’m sure it’s not all his fault, but I need someone to yell at. People get fired all the time when the unit they oversee doesn’t perform, even when they aren’t directly attributable to the result.

  55. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    A clutch 2 out hit. So thats what they look like.

  56. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    You have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  57. K-man

    May 18, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    pathetic x 2

  58. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 5:52 pm


  59. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    This game is a carbon copy of so many this year. The starter pitches pretty good for 4 or 5 innings, but the offense hasn’t put up any runs. Then the starter has to try to stay perfect. It ain’t gonna happen.

  60. West Coast Tiger

    May 18, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Why in the world would JL, knowing they can’t let another run score, not bring in a fresh arm to overpower the Unit.

  61. ron

    May 18, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Can he pick up up the ball cleanly? Can anyone throw home without a cutoff man anymore?

  62. K-man

    May 18, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    If Matt Millen can keep his job, ANYBODY can

  63. Vince in MN

    May 18, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Well, that’e enough Tigerball for me for a while.

  64. Dave BW

    May 18, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    Gary Sheffield’s son is named Gary Jr.? I am shocked.

  65. ron

    May 18, 2008 at 6:05 pm


  66. West Coast Tiger

    May 18, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    Is there much talk in the Detroit area media of the clubhouse falling apart? i.e. Pitchers blaming hitters, position players blaming pitchers, players blaming the coaches? I expect someone will be shown the door soon.

  67. Jeff M.

    May 18, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    If there’s any finger pointing going on they can all point at each other because they’re bad in every facet of the game right now. Nobody on this team should be pointing fingers unless they’re looking in the mirror.

  68. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    This offense flat out stinks. Like Sky said earlier. Five innings in row with runners on 2nd or 3rd and no runs. That is inexcusable. Where is all the production? I’m dazed and confused.

  69. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    Grace just said Sheffield is one big weapon we won’t have in the ninth. HA

  70. West Coast Tiger

    May 18, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    OK a positive comment. Pudge has had a fantastic series behind the plate.

  71. gritty

    May 18, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    I think this is all pretty much Inge’s fault. I mean, his inherent clutchiness hasn’t rubbed off AT ALL!

    How Detroit has failed to capitalize on Inge’s Clutchiness (and what a stupid argument that is compared to the numerous problems with this team):


  72. K-man

    May 18, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    This is beyond ridiculous. This thing needs to be blown up completely. I want to watch guys who want to PLAY. Show me Raburn, Thomas and Joyce. Bring up Larish and Clevlen. I’d rather watch those guys bust their ass and win 30 games then this bunch win 70 (which is about where they are headed, by the way). When the home plate ump goes out to start the game he yells PLAY BALL! He doesn’t yell WORK BALL!

  73. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Nate 4 runs. Who would have thunk it?

  74. ron

    May 18, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Can Magglio run to first base, please. And cut that hair.

  75. West Coast Tiger

    May 18, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    This isn’t close to being Nate’s fault. We have had very good performances overall from the Rotation on this road trip. This is a lack of clutch hitting. I a way this reminds me of the under- performing White Sox in 06.

  76. Brian P

    May 18, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    I might actually enjoy watching the Seattle series. We might see both teams be shutout through nine innings.

  77. West Coast Tiger

    May 18, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    I would like to see the Tigers elect a Team Captain. Is the any precedent in the organization for this. The players need to take responsibility for their performance.

  78. ron

    May 18, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    I think this would be a lovely evening for Mike to call Jim and tell him his services are no longer needed.

  79. greg

    May 18, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    Unit had his best outing of the season today.

  80. yak

    May 18, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    I just traded for Maggs in my fantasy league… I would say I’m a jinx, but he sucked before today. I drafted Miggy 6th overall, and gave up a fluke closer about to come back down to earth(percival) and a starter who aready has (cliff lee). They better turn it around. Sheff and Grandy did last year after I traded for Grandy… Thats all I got anymore.

  81. Kurt

    May 18, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    wow, Gritty posted that EXACT thing on my blog …

  82. ron

    May 18, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    Yeh, a team captain for the millionaire’s club. Uncle Jimmy would have non of that.

  83. Chris

    May 18, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    Yes this team is struggling to get clutch hits, but what is perhaps more inexplicable is a pretty sizable dropoff in batting average throughout the roster of regulars.

    Player………………………….’08 Ba…’07 BA….Career BA

    Rodriguez…………………….265 …….281 …….302
    Cabrera ………………………271 …….339 …….310
    Guillen ……………………….284 …….296 …….290
    Polanco ………………………265 …….341 …….304
    Renteria ……………………..255 …….332…….290
    Granderson …………………235 …….302 …….277
    Ordonez ……………………..315 …….363…….312
    Sheffield………………………190 …….265…….294
    Team ………………………….258 ……287
    Team Scoring position…….240 …….311

    So there you have it. We are having a complete roster slump where the batting average is down significantly across the board. Some are off from their ’08 BA more than others, but NOBODY is actually doing better. And it seams to me that all the hits that have disappeared are the ones in situations of men in scoring position.

    One reason to be optimistic about them improving their offense is the sheer anomalistic nature of having multiple players underperforming. These guys can’t possibly keep this futility up, can they?

  84. billfer

    May 18, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    What does the length of Magglio’s hair have to do with anything?

  85. billfer

    May 18, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    WC Tiger – Dean Palmer, Brad Ausmus, and I believe Doug Brocail were tri-captains in 99 I believe. It didn’t help.

  86. billfer

    May 18, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    yak – Maggs had a bad game today, but I’m not sure why you think he’s sucked. His numbers are pretty much right in line with his career numbers. Expecting more would be ridiculous.

  87. Chris

    May 18, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    Magglio is not having a bad year at all, especially when you consider that nobody around him is hitting very consistently. It’s hard to be very productive when you are an island of hitting in a sea non-hitting.

  88. stephen

    May 18, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    I have nothing against Maggs, but his hair looks stupid. I say that having longish hair. I’m pretty there’s some middle ground between the Yankees no facial hair policy and Maggs looking like the bus driver from The Simpsons.

  89. Dave BW

    May 18, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    I think his hair looks fantastic! *swoons*

  90. Kathy

    May 18, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    That’s right, BW. And btw, Derek Jeter is captain of the Yankees and they’re in last place. MLB having a captain is ridiculous, imo.

  91. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    ?sdrawkcab ot kcab naem siht seoD

  92. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    Seriously, I’m with Chris. I hope those batting numbers are just a slump. I think alot of us have been hoping or waiting for the lineup wide slump to end (besides Maggs). I just hope it’s soon. I can’t take the abuse anymore from everyone here in Tampa. I’ll never quit wearing the old english D, but man we need a turn around. Here’s hoping we can get it rolling at home against the Mariners.

  93. ron

    May 18, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    Maggs could be our Captain but no one would take him seriously with that stupid looking hair.

  94. Brian in Tampa

    May 18, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    According to the recap of Sunday’s game, the Tigers went 1 for 20 with runners in scoring position against the dbacks(for the series). Oh yeah, Sheffield was 0-10 on the six game road trip dropping him to an awesome .189.

  95. cib

    May 18, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    It’s taken me this long to be able to face today’s results.

    I commented on the Team Captain concept the other day. The Yankees might be doing poorly this particular year but overall, I don’t think it’s hurt them.

    Hmm. Here’s today’s Trivia question from my Tigers calendar: Who were the only two Detroit players to homer in the 2006 World Series?

    Answer: Casey and Monroe, two each.

    I’ll be at the games on Tuesday and Wednesday. Wish me luck –

  96. Chris

    May 19, 2008 at 12:05 am

    Wow! 1-20 with men in scoring position! The math is easy. They hit a pathetic .050 BA with men in scoring position…….. Hmmmm… let’s see what 1-20 looks like:


    I hate this team! I truly do. I’m beginning to feel the level of despondency usually reserved for the Lions when they have one of their usual awful teams. I guess the only thing to do is to root against them in hopes that humiliation will make changes happen, as I do for the Lions. And at this point, I want to see absolutely every member of this roster gone– every stinking one of them, with the acceptation of Raburn, Joyce, Santiago and Galarraga. Let’s rebuild a team around those guys along with minor league call-ups and see if they can’t do better.

    For all of you who live in Detroit and are stuck with tickets to see this pathetic group of failures, I surely hope you start boo-ing them loudly and often at games. Please boo every one of the underperforming regulars when they come to bat. I’m so discusted with this group that I’m almost tempted to buy a ticket for next months game in San Diego and go down there just to boo them myself. But, I don’t think there will be enough despondent Tiger fans there to join in my chorus. So I don’t think its worth the time and expense. Bad baseball awaits me in San Diego otherwise.

    By no means, should this group of mental retards be given anything but disrespect. Every one of these players needs to know how much they suck and how much we would all want to see them either run out of town or in opposing player uniforms.

  97. Chris

    May 19, 2008 at 12:14 am

    “I’ll be at the games on Tuesday and Wednesday. Wish me luck”

    Please cib, be sure to boo them loudly and let them know how much they suck dog crap.

    This team isn’t deserving of your attendance otherwise.

  98. Mike R

    May 19, 2008 at 1:05 am

    For someone who hates this team, Chris, you sure do spend a lot of time complaining about them.

  99. Eric Cioe

    May 19, 2008 at 1:08 am

    Billfer – You’re probably for free speech and all, but can you just flat-out ban Chris from ever posting here again?

  100. David

    May 19, 2008 at 1:14 am

    Ho Hum

  101. Chris

    May 19, 2008 at 1:43 am

    “For someone who hates this team, Chris, you sure do spend a lot of time complaining about them.”

    Well yes. And we sure have a lot to complain about with this team, now don’t we? I read the line about this team going 1-20 batting with men in scoring position and then my disappointment turns to anger and then to downright hatred for these clowns.

  102. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 19, 2008 at 1:47 am

    I’m glad I skipped this series. But somehow I’m still stuck with the results.

    This season has become boring in its frustrating sameness. It’s hard to even joke about it any more. I’ve been paying particular attention to Tigers hitting with runners on (my very own spreadsheet and everything!), in the hope that once in a while I’ll have something intelligent to say about it. But when this only tells you what you already know – Ordonez and Polanco are OK, everyone else either sucks or doesn’t play enough to matter – it becomes a very, very hollow exercise.

    Something’s got to give, and will soon. But will that make things better? Hard tellin’.

  103. Mike R

    May 19, 2008 at 2:15 am

    Chris, I’m watching, reading, and hearing all the same things you are, yet I don’t hate a professional athlete for not living up to people’s expectations. Just relax a little bit. I’m not trying to come at you like I did earlier in a previous game post thread (and for that, I belatedly apologize — although I don’t think it affected you much but I still apologize for that) as it was just unnecessary for me to do.

    That said, it’s not the end of the free world that they went 1-for-20 with runners on or whatever the number was. I love, love, love sports. Perhaps more than any extracurricular activity in my life, but I don’t like to get so wrapped up into them that it actually turns to anger (tough to do with Jim Leyland at the helm).

  104. ron

    May 19, 2008 at 6:00 am

    These multi -millionaire athletes deserve all the scorn Chris can heap upon them. If they were making 1% of their salary, it would be too much for how they’re playing. And then maybe Magglio could not afford “designer” hair and look more like a ballplayer.

  105. billfer

    May 19, 2008 at 7:15 am

    ron – you’ve mastered grumpy-old-man. Magglio was making the same money last year with the same hair cut and he put up MVP numbers. Railing-on about his hair is, well, I don’t even know the words for it.

  106. David G.

    May 19, 2008 at 8:37 am

    “with the acceptation”

    LOL. Hey, Chris, I think the word you’re looking for there is “Exception”.

  107. Sawyer

    May 19, 2008 at 8:53 am

    This season will surpass 2003 as The Worst season in Detroit Tigers history.

    Sure, the Tigers probably won’t lose 119 games, but with the second highest payroll in MLB should they look this inept?

    I hate to think how long we’ll look back at 2006 as our most recent “good times” as Tiger fans.

    One great year in 2006.

    One “okay” year in 2007.

    Back to mediocrity in 2008 (and beyond?).

    I don’t care for Hillary Clinton, but if the Tigers showed half of the fight and unwillingness to quit that she does we would be in first place.

    The AL Central isn’t that tough – too bad the Tigers aren’t either.

  108. cib

    May 19, 2008 at 9:11 am

    Chris, I don’t boo my own team. I know you are not in Detroit so you don’t see the post-game interviews on FSN, but I do, and there is not one player on this team who doesn’t care about what’s going on and who doesn’t want more for the fans. There is something going on that I certainly can’t figure out; I am not stupid and I am a realist, but I am convinced that it’s not a matter of this team just not caring. They need to send in a sports psychologist but that’s another thread.

    I can’t boo my own team; it’s physically impossible, I cannot make the sound leave my lips! They’ve been my team forever. Yeah, I’ve got good money invested in tickets, but I bought tickets before 2006 so that’s not a big deal. I sit in my seats and I put my blanket over my head, I scream “nooooo!!!!!!!” and make other signs of frustration, but if I boo my team then I’m a fair-weather fan and I belong in New York or Chicago. If I boo my team, I’m booing my childhood! Ernie Harwell’s voice coming from the car radio, Al Kaline, Mickey Lolich. I see Willie Horton at a restaurant nowadays, and I’m still starstruck. Driving out to Willow Run airfield to meet the team after a road trip, trying to get Kirk Gibson’s attention!! Nope, this year may be painfully disappointing and I may never figure out the reasons why, but this old gal does not boo the Olde English D.

  109. Tbone

    May 19, 2008 at 9:22 am

    Enough with all of the crossfire. This forum should be able to stay above that nonsense. Please don’t let the team’s poor play become a catalyst for treating each other poorly. Can we try to keep the critical commentary directed towards the players and mangement?

    The off season deals for Renteria and Cabrera so far have been a major bust. Sheffield appears to be done. The starters have pitched well below their potential. The defense is worse than anyone could imagine. Questionable lineups and game decisions from the manager have exacerbated the poor play on the field. The bullpen really is the only unit playing up to expectations, which were pretty low to begin with. It’s been the perfect storm.

    But it is also only a quarter of the way through the season. I still firmly believe that this group can turn it around with the talent on the roster. What’s needed most of all is some leadership on the field and in the clubhouse. Someone, anyone to step up make some plays and wake this team out of its slumber.

  110. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 19, 2008 at 10:10 am

    I like Magglio Ordonez’s hair.

    I’d rather see the Tigers win as presently constituted. But they leave me no choice but to come up with one of those fantastic scenarios for turning it around. My turn.

    Gazing into the crystal ball, I see:

    Gary Sheffield, unwilling to go on the DL, asks for his release and gets it.

    Jim Leyland resigns.

    Carlos Guillen, Ivan Rodriguez, Nate Robertson, Todd Jones, Brandon Inge, Marcus Thames, Edgar Renteria, and Zach Miner are all traded. Jeff Larish, Clete Thomas, Brent Clevlen, and Mike Hollimon join the team. Galaragga takes Roberton’s place in the rotation.

    The new lineup:

    CF Granderson
    2B Polanco
    DH Cabrera
    RF Ordonez
    LF Joyce
    3B Raburn
    1B Larish
    C New Guy
    SS Santiago

    The Tigers get mostly pitching and prospects in trade. A closer who can really shut the door, a lefty version of Miner before the Tigers wasted him, a AAA catching prospect to cover for the possibilty that Vance Wilson might not return, and a youngish starting defensive catcher whose hitting is something of an upgrade over Inge. They keep 13 pitchers pending the possible return of Wilson. There is enough flexibility – and youth – in the regular lineup to go with a bench of Thomas, Clevlen, and Hollimon.

    Suddenly, the Tigers are interesting again. An 84-78 3rd place finish feels like a triumph rather than a disappointment. A team that came together (like 2006) rather than a team that looked better on paper than on the field gives us a lot of hope for 2009.

    Back to reality. Trading all the guys I mentioned has got to be a pipe dream. Like I said, I’d rather have the team as is – including Leyland – perform as expected and turn it around big time. But if the Tigers are going to be as boring as they have been, by all means, tear it up, shake it up. Do whatever is necessary to get a TEAM of some sort together here.

  111. Dave BW

    May 19, 2008 at 10:10 am

    “Chris, I don’t boo my own team. ”

    High-five, cib!

  112. rickets schlurtzkies

    May 19, 2008 at 10:17 am

    galaragga stays in the rotation if im the coach.taking him out gives you a glimpse at why are season is a joke.inge is a third baseman guillen is not.but guillen “can” hit inge cannot.guillen to dh if his brain can stay in the game great.i love santiago,edgar you can get spot starts until we trade you some money there.sheffield youve seen better days your painful to watch.thames and joyce play left.we need a guy like youkelousisisous from boston who plays with some passion to light a fire under our keisters maybe that get us playin like we wont tolerate losing.its a sad joke right now.we miss that spark that zumaya gave us for sure.we have a team thats doesnt seem to have the kind of guys that believe they can win.oh i forgot to say that pudge is only allowed to perform swinging bunts or just maybe dive in the plate a bit.he need to go gain some weight or something.hes flailing around like hes swating bees.

  113. stephen

    May 19, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Well, I think everyone has a different philosophy about this, but I see blind faith toward your team really isn’t the answer for all of us. Whether it’s a sports franchise or a politician who has disappointed you I don’t think there is anything wrong with publicly expressing your displeasure, i.e. booing.
    I wouldn’t boo the 2003 Tigers, they had no talent. I would boo the Lions of the last few years and direct some invective Millen’s way. I think it’s completely legitimate to boo a team that seems comatose and lacking in heart. (Yes, i know the ‘heart’ issue is radioactive on this site, but if any team has shown a lack of heart, it’s been this team).
    It’s not even that I think booing is productive, I’m pretty sure few players would admit that booing makes them play harder, but I think it’s a completely legit activity, the equivalent of writing a letter of complaint to Hertz after you reserve a convertible and they give you a K car instead. I do think wholesale booing does put pressure on management to make a change and it could lead to Leyland’s departure. And that would be a positive.

  114. ron

    May 19, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    H for heart; the team has none. H for hair; grumpy old man does not like girly boys, especially ones that cannot throw a baseball 100 ft. and is afraid to go near a wall.

  115. ron

    May 19, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    Don’t upset the prima donnas with boos- they may self destruct.

  116. ron

    May 19, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    Booing is exressing disappointment and you can only be disappointed in something or someone you care about.

  117. David G.

    May 19, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    So you care about the Yankees?

  118. ron

    May 19, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Cib, those guys you mentioned were real Tigers in name and spirit. I wouldn’t boo them either. These guys today couldn’t carry their jockstraps. I don’t care if Maggs won mvp. Gibson would have personally cut his hair.

  119. ron

    May 19, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    David, I never boo the Yankees. Their own fans would drown me out.

  120. Matt in Toledo

    May 19, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    Interesting choice, saying Gibson would have cut Maggs’ hair. Gibson was always the most scraggly looking guy on those Tiger teams, and I’m sure he would have looked moreso if Sparky would have allowed it.

    He also probably would have let his hair grow if he would’ve had any.

    As for booing and tossing the word “hate” around toward a baseball team. I have a suggestion. Take some time off when you feel something inside you as a fan snap. For me, it was when Verlander walked the unwalkable Tony Pena, Jr. on four pitches. I told my wife I was finished watching, and that I would watch again when I felt myself missing watching the games.

    I’d recommend the same approach when you feel yourself hating the team or feeling the need to boo. Turn the TV off. Sell your tickets or just don’t go. I think about and write about baseball more than I probably should, and even I know you should set it aside for a while when it’s not fun anymore.

  121. Dave BW

    May 19, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Exactly, I am incapable of directing vitriol at something I am watching by choice and for entertainment.

  122. ron

    May 19, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Matt you’re right. Sparky would have cut it.

  123. ron

    May 19, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    This is fun. Everyone enjoys a train wreck.

  124. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 19, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Matt in Toledo –

    You must be a communist. Kirk Gibson was surely another John Wayne – clean-cut, strong, silent. Why, I remember the 1984 Tigers. Clean-living young men who played the game not for money, but to glorify our great land. Yes, Kirk Gibson would clean up this town.

    How can anyone be down on Maggs? Besides last year, and the year before, he’s been the best hitter on this team all year. I’m tempted to compare Gibson unfavorably with Ordonez and turn that haircut statement on its head, but I have to remember that it wasn’t Gibson calling Maggs a “pretty boy.”

  125. greg

    May 19, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    I think sometimes we try to oversimplify things because we want answers. Just because someone ‘tried hard’ or ‘played hard’ in a non contract year in the past, that doesn’t preclude the possibility that this year the absence of financial motivation could be a contributing factor to displaying signs of apathy. Perhaps whatever non pecuniary motivation existed in previous years is gone, or at least has disipated somewhat. Maybe they’ve gotten a little burned out. Maybe the pennant race has lost a little of the appeal it had in previous years. Or perhaps not, but to rule out that possibility doesn’t make sense to me. The level of dedication, commitment, work ethic etc. is influenced by numerous factors. It can also be dynamic and ever changing depending on a ton of things going on in their life, the team, and yes, money can be a huge motivating factor.

    Someone commented that the team cares and wants to win. Of course they do, everyone wants to win, but not everyone wants to do what it takes to win.

    I don’t think its unrealistic to expect to see some tangible evidence that the team wants to win as much as Ryan Freel does, as much as Reed Johnson does, as much as Eric Byrnes does.

  126. Rick G

    May 19, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    “This is fun. Everyone enjoys a train wreck.”

    Everyone except the passengers.

    Personally, I’m trying to make this season bearable by finding the positive. For instance…

    – Sheffield still has 3 functioning limbs, that’s 75%!
    – Guillen and Cabrera in a slump means they’re not pulling muscles on the base paths!
    – Tigers losing a day game means my night is free for other activities, much appreciated by Mrs. G!

  127. greg

    May 19, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    I think booing should be reserved for a few rare instances. For example, when there is absolutely no doubt someone is dogging it:

    a) Someone doesn’t run on a ball in play because ‘they thought it was foul’. No excuse for that to happen, EVER.

    b) You’re Ken Griffey and 8-10 times a year a stand up double/triple is turned into a single because you stand at the plate gawking at a fly ball because you incorrectly thought it was a HR. When that happens, the fans should boo until that player is removed from the lineup.
    Other instances are when its the ALCS against Oakland, game 4, its a tight game, and Grilli has walked 75 consecutive batters and hasn’t been removed, and you want to express your opinion to Leyland that Grilli should be removed from the game.


  128. Kathy

    May 19, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    Magglio is a very special player. No one touches his hair unless he or his wife decide they want it cut. He’s quiet, loves his family and is probably one of the most pure hitters in MLB. The Big Tilde is all man. Let there be no doubt.

  129. Tbone

    May 19, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    I don’t like booing players, even the ones that deserve it. Umpires on the other hand…

    I proudly fueled my entire section into a boo chorus at Game 23 against the Twins last year with a deep, hearty howl after Leyland and Wil Ledezma got tossed on a bad obstruction call.

    My kids couldn’t believe their ears and it was probably not setting the best example, but damn if it didn’t feel good!

  130. greg

    May 19, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    Tbone – I was at that game! That may have been the worst call of the year last year, and one of the most infuriating ones I can recall witnessing live. The only time I felt an impulse to actually run on the field and argue myself(would never act on it of course). I actually felt the moral OBLIGATION to boo in that instance because I felt the umpire was willfully out of line. The only explanation I could come up with, is that some umpires think that they are the show, that people come to see them, so they sometimes like to make calls just to make a spectacle, either that, or something more nefarious was at work that afternoon, but I refuse to believe a sane individual would interpret that as obstruction. That call started an avalanche of misfortune that the Tigers would not recover from that day.

    One could argue that Reds fans have a moral obligation to boo guys like Griffey, but that’s a topic for another day.