Game 41: Tigers at Royals

PREGAME: Kenny rogers hopes to not be the latest pitcher to receive no run support and Gil Meche will look to extend the Tigers 16 inning scoreless streak. I wish I had something more encouraging to say.

DET @ KCR, Thursday, May 15, 2008 Game Preview –

Game Time 2:10

POSTGAME: Umm. Again, not a lot to say. I listened to most of this game and it sounded by Dan and Jim’s call that some bad pitching was compounded by some bad luck. Once again stuff happened to the Tigers instead of the Tigers happening to another team. They managed some extra base hits later in the game, but when given a chance to actually climb back in they failed.

Kenny Rogers walked in a run which was the 8th time a Tigers pitcher has done that this year. Last year it happened a total of 9 times. What’s disappointing is that looking at the strike zone (the graphic below is Granderson leading off the game, those strikes were all called), in this game it should have played to Kenny’s strengths. Strikes were being called outside off the plate, but Rogers couldn’t take advantage.

I’m just speechless.


  1. Ed Wise

    May 15, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Why is Ryan Raburn sitting when he could be hitting??? Great fielder, great arm and power at the plate — I don’t get it?

  2. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Ed Wise

    Because Raburn bats right, is not a veteran, and because – I’m guessing – Leyland just doesn’t like him for some reason.

  3. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    I mean, that’s why I think Raburn isn’t playing much in general, not specifically this game against Meche.

  4. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Speaking of run support – 21 runs scored in 9 Justin Verlander starts so far.

  5. Jeremy

    May 15, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    Get out your brooms for Cy Meche. I am going to call a two hit shutout.

  6. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    I’m not nearly as pessimistic are you are, Jeremy. I am calling for a 4-1 Royals win, and we’ll get 7 hits, all singles.

  7. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    He he. Any back to back singles, Swami Mark? I want to watch that part of the game before I turn it off. Something to add to the 2008 highlight reel.

  8. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Sure, back-to-back singles, why not!

    What are the odds the Royals score first today? even money? 1-3? lower?

  9. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    I’m confused, Mark. What do you mean by “first”?

  10. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    The odds the Royals score a run before the Tigers do.


  11. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    But I’m still confused. This time by the part after “run.” The 1 in your 4-1 prediction was an obvious typo. I was trying to be tactful about it, but now you force me to point it out.

  12. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 2:07 pm


    Now you’ve got *ME* confused. I am suggesting that the Royals will score first in today’s game, and win 4-1. I double-checked my earlier post and I typed what i meant. No typo there basedo n what I intended.

    I appreciate you being tactful about it, but I’m not seeing what you are pointing out or what is tripping you up. Be blunt about how you interpret my post if you have to, I won’t get offended.

  13. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    You’re too good of a straight man, Mark. I was joking. As in “you can’t possibly mean to suggest that the Tigers will score at all.”

    When I appear to be stupid, it usually means I’m trying to be funny. The rest of the time, it just means that I’m stupid.

  14. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    And when I forget an HTML tag, that also indicates that I’m stupid.

  15. Dave T.

    May 15, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Does McLendon need to be fired?
    It seems reactionary, but I thought these guys were supposed to be hitters

    This is the result of signing too many guys to long term contracts, no one is in a contract year and forced to hustle every game like his $ depended on it.

    Also, I don’t know why you build a team in detroit stocked with guys who don’t like cold weather… a la polanco’s artic expedition suit

  16. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Well, the Royals scored first. How surprising.

    Nothing like an early 2-0 hole when you’ve won 2 of your last 10 games.

  17. West Coast Tiger

    May 15, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    I am renewing my Call for a Sports Psychologist on staff.

    note to DD call Tom George Ph D at UofM

  18. Travis in Baton Rouge

    May 15, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Wow. 3-0 already. That feels so……..insurmountable.

  19. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 2:28 pm


    how mean of you to play such a dirty trick on me. 😉 i am not nearly smart enough to figure out that you were joking. i mean, you sounded so SERIOUS, i felt bad for somehow misleading you.

    at any rate it was fun to hijack the thread for a little while.

    Man I love how we’ve turned Esteban German, Tony Pena Jr. and Miguel Olivo in the 1927 Yankees in this series.

  20. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Oh, and Hochever and Meche are Koufax and Drysdale, courtesy of us.

    I am beginning to think that if the Royals and Tigers played 100 times, KC would win at least 75% of the games.

  21. Travis in Baton Rouge

    May 15, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    OK, I’m going to look for something positive here. Kenny gave up 3 runs in the first, BUT he did it on only 22 pitches. Yea Kenny!!

  22. Ben in Denver

    May 15, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Oh this sucks. I’ve been quiet on the site for a long time and feel like everything’s been said, but this is just so terrible I had to voice my misery. Billfer, you were the voice of reason this year and now I hear your despair too.

    What an emotional swing over just 2 months.

  23. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Even money says Joyce hits into a DP here.

  24. cib

    May 15, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    My stomach hurts. I mean this whole situation is beginning to actually, physically hurt.

    Wait! A run! I feel better. Why do I let them do this to me.

    Who else ought to be working??

  25. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    OK, I’m going in. I will try to make the winning difference here not by following the game itself (4-1 record) but by following these comments. My presence will bring Tiger runs – I WILL THIS TO BE, RIGHT NOW!!!

  26. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    I don’t know how you did that Sean, but Inge just hit a negative 2-run homer, so we are now losing 3 to -1.

  27. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 2:45 pm


    P.S. I’m joking, Inge actually singled to center, we’re still down 3 to +1

  28. Kathy

    May 15, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    The players had a 30 minute team meeting before the game. Wonder what that was all about. I just can’t sit and hate on them. Someone from the outside with no emotional attachment to this team needs to give a professional diagnosis.

  29. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    “Inge just hit a negative 2-run homer”

    And I believed you, Mark. No matter – highest absolute value wins. It’s in the rulebook.

  30. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Ross Gload doubles on a ground ball to shortstop Ramon Santiago


    screw this, i’m going back to work.

  31. T Smith

    May 15, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    I bet the squeeze in on here

  32. cib

    May 15, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Tummyache is back. I can’t handle this anymore.

  33. Mike in CT

    May 15, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    this is truly pathetic. why even bother today?

  34. Kathy

    May 15, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    I’ve changed my mind. I now hate Ramon Santiago. My God, all he had to do was throw to homeplate. It’s just beyond pathetic.

  35. Chris in Dallas

    May 15, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Well, at least they won’t be shut out.

  36. Kathy

    May 15, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    We’re now the “whipping boy” team of MLB.

  37. Dave T.

    May 15, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    If you were DD who would you trade first? Assuming there is a market.

    I would go with Inge, he gave the whole season negative karma with the whole I don’t want to be a catcher thing. But no one wants him. Honestly I can’t think of a tiger who possibly could be traded right now

  38. linbus54

    May 15, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    There’s no chemistry with this team. Nobody seems to want to win. Nobody can see the ball to hit or catch it. Nobody can find the plate to pitch a decent strike. Everything is wrong. It’s like a conspiracy, just like the gas prices.

  39. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    You’re right, Dave. There’s no market for these guys, especially with some of the contracts they’re sitting on. Face it, we’re stuck with this albatross of a team for another couple years.

  40. Adam

    May 15, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Nickel and dimed to death.

  41. Tbone

    May 15, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Walking in a run is always nice.

    4-1 Royals…

  42. Mike in CT

    May 15, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Please, CUT SHEFFIELD. Start the purge and send a message.

  43. Dave T.

    May 15, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    They gave away too many long term contracts, not everyone needed to be signed for 2-3 years

  44. Kevin in Austin

    May 15, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I’d like to trade Guillen for an arm, and I’m coming seriously close to calling for Leyland’s head. I’m not doing it yet, but for the first time, I’m thinking about it.

  45. Sawyer

    May 15, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    I just feel sorry for all the folks who were so excited by the moves during the offseason that they purchased season tickets to watch an extremely overpaid version of the 2003 Tigers.

  46. cib

    May 15, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    The Tigers spent all winter after the Cabrera/Willis trade boasting about it, cutting off season ticket sales, etc., etc., maybe THAT’S what attracted the bad karma – boasting? Who knows. I am just so sad; I’m rambling – – –

  47. Tbone

    May 15, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    Oops – I meant 5-1 Royals…

  48. Kevin in Austin

    May 15, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    Mike in CT – I’m with you. I said 10 days ago that I was giving Sheffield until the 15th. Well, here we are, and he’s the same. I wouldn’t cut him, since his money is guaranteed, but put him on the bench or trade him for prospects (any will do).

    We do need to send a message – perform or die. Joyce and Raburn need more ABs. I’d like to get Larish up here as well.

  49. David G.

    May 15, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    If things do not turn around and soon this team will completely unravel and Leyland will be gone by June 30th, and by his own choosing I would guess.

  50. Dave T.

    May 15, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    The most frustrating thing is that the Tigers aren’t out of the playoff race yet, they can still (if they get their heads out of their butts) win the division.

    But everyday it keeps slipping further and further away

  51. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Was that seriously a 9 pitch inning by our hitters? Wow. Something has got to change; a message needs to be sent.

  52. T Smith

    May 15, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Yep. And Cleveland is about to win AGAIN. They’re turning the corner. This could get ugly quick.

  53. Sawyer

    May 15, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Playoffs. That made me laugh.

    A team that hasn’t seen the sunny side of .500 a quarter of the way into the season that looks as bad as the Tigers doesn’t deserve to think about the playoffs.

    Today, it looks like they’re thinking about hopping on the plane and getting out of Boston oops, Kansas City (the way the Tigers have played the Royals this year I got confused there for a sec).

    After this game is over if we don’t hear a report about a player getting pissed off and at least throwing his postgame chocolate martini Shirley Temple (the way the Tigers are playing I can’t assume they’ll be tossing back any manly drinks) across the locker room we can forget about this team.

    It has not proven that it has a heart (the players), courage (the players), or a brain (the manager) on it’s journey to Oz here in 2008.

    And forget about no place like home. The Tigers can’t win anywhere these days.

  54. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    And we can’t get Tony Pena Jr out.

    This is incredible.

    (so much for turning it off. it’s like a really gruesome car accident, you just keep staring trying to see how bad it can get…)

  55. cib

    May 15, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    mark in chi you are right, I am still here regardless of the pain!!

  56. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    dear god, Magglio swung at the first pitch and grounded out to short.

    I……. I’m speechless.

  57. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    FSN Kansas City just showed top AL ERA’s in May. Cleveland was 1.64. Good Lord. That’s how a team gets hot and wins games.

  58. Mike in CT

    May 15, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    sheffield…go buy some clear or cream. seriously.

  59. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Mike you just made me wet my pants.

  60. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    we are going to set a world record for GIDP, and Sheffield can stick that trophy on his mantle (or up his a$$, for all I care) with the rest of his awards.

  61. greg

    May 15, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Cleveland is poised to take off and bury everyone in the division.

    Meche, he’s really struggled this year with a +6.00 era.

    But he’s shutting down the Tigers.

    Haven’t we seen this before?

    Right Handers absolutely own the Tigers.

  62. Chris in Dallas

    May 15, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    OK I’m going to leave for now. I’ve got to go shove a bamboo skewer through my eye sockets.

  63. Tbone

    May 15, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    I guess I’m happy for all of those kids watching the game at Kauffman Stadium today. At least they have plenty to cheer about.

    And we already scored a run in this game. We’ve got that going for us…

  64. Chris

    May 15, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    This is absolutely pathetic.

    I can’t believe I got MLB extra innings this year – waste of $$$

  65. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Don’t worry. I smell a comeback. The Tigers have been totally clutch this year in the late innings.

  66. T Smith

    May 15, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Someone previously posed a solution to solving this rut, which I’m liking more and more:

    The Tiger’s starting pitching should simply pitch to the Tiger’s lineup. At least one facet of the team would succeed.

  67. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    I thought some vicious, biting sarcasm might help. Worth a try.

  68. Mike in CT

    May 15, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Two-out RBI, those still exist?

  69. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    Sean C,

    are you trying to trick me again? fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, i must play for the Tigers.

  70. Chris

    May 15, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    Surprise, Surprise!!! Strike out to end the innning.

  71. Mark J in DC

    May 15, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    I know gas an food prices are skyrocketing, but it really is amazing how little $137.7 million buys these days. Yeesh.

  72. jason

    May 15, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    well, i was really curious as to who the GIDP king is, so i went and looked it up. surprisingly, sheff is not on the list. in fact, maggs is higher. but, that is probably mostly due to sheff playing less.

    Grounded into Double Plays
    Ortiz-BOS 10
    Guerrero-LAA 9
    Brown-OAK 7
    Morneau-MIN 7
    Ordonez-DET 7
    Stewart-TOR 7
    Thome-CHW 7

    that doesnt include the GIDP for sheff today, so maybe he pops on this list tomorrow, i dont know. also note, this is AL only.

  73. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Good one, Mark in Chicago.

    If the Tigers knew how much we care, they might play better. Would someone please tell them? Can we petition them to play better?

  74. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    Hey look the Rays are coming on TV. Maybe I’ll watch them now so that I can see what a young team with heart looks like. Another 1-2-3 in the 6th. WOO HOO

  75. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    Maybe we could all send them a Vermont Teddy Bear.

  76. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Jason –

    Unless the last 2 games have skewed things, Sheff doesn’t stand out %-wise from the GIDP crowd on the Tigers. I’m not defending him intentionally.

  77. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Interesting point, Jason. It sure feels like Sheff would be among the league “leaders” there.

    I would speculate that GIDP per base hit would place Sheff squarely in the top 3 of that list. And yes, I am not above making up stats to illustrate my displeasure for Sheff right now. Don’t even get me started on Pudge.

  78. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    The Tigers can still pull this one out.

    I’m trying cliches now.

  79. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    It’s not over yet.

  80. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Joyce has got to stay in this lineup. Screw Sheff.

  81. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    GIDP per base hits with runner on would place Sheff tops on the Tigers by a huge margin and probably the AL, too.

  82. cib

    May 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    I’m feeling better about next year.

    Matt Joyce for Team Captain!

  83. Andy

    May 15, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    If the Rays stadium was not so sterile and hideous, it would be a fun place to be right now. They need a retractable roof.

    The Tigers? They need alot of things retracted.

  84. Mark in Chicago

    May 15, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    At the risk of ruining my reputation as a sarcastic pessimist, a couple positive things to observe here:

    This Joyce kid can hit a little. I know it’s early and nobody has a book on him, but he looks like he’s got some skills. I’ll be interested to see how he handles andversity and makes adjustments.

    Also, the bullpen has been pretty solid most of the year. Maybe it’s just smoke and mirrors, but I think a couple of these guys are very serviceable long relievers.

    OK, that’s enough sensibility and fairness.

    Trade Pudge, he sucks.

  85. David G.

    May 15, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    A Tigers “regular” has not hit a Home Run in 11 days and almost 9 full games.

    Wow. Just. Wow.

  86. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Probability of a runners-on-base hit by Sheffield = 3% before the game.

  87. greg

    May 15, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    All this talk about not panicing, rubish, they need to drop a bomb or this team’s season is probably (85% chance) over.

    Too many complacent veterans sitting back with fat contracts. Put the players on the field that are producing. 40 games is plenty long enough to snap out of a funk. Start benching the underacheivers for 3-4 days straight. That will wake ’em up, and stop worrying that it might bruise their ego. Quit coddling these guys. Look where its gotten them.

    If they see it as panicing. GOOD! At least that might stir them from their sleep.

  88. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    I’m with you Greg. What’s the worst that happens. Our run production goes down. I don’t think that is possible.

  89. (Mostly) Silent Greg

    May 15, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    I wish the real Tigers played as well as the Playstation 2 Tigers.

  90. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    There’s still hope. Did I use that one already? Is the game over? I need to know so I can maybe pull out “it ain’t over till it’s over.”

  91. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    It’s over when Sheff comes up after Miggy.

  92. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Are you telling me they’re going to let Sheffield bat?

  93. Mike R

    May 15, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    I’m honestly to the point where I want to see this team do as bad as possible. And that’s not meant in a grumpy, bitter, and angry sort of way, but more-so in a “god-it’s-just-so-damn-bad-that-I-hope-the-roof-caves-on-this-season-and-all-is-lost, sort of way.

  94. T Smith

    May 15, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Mike R:

    Although I’m not yet there with you, it would be the humane thing to do. It would put us all our of our misery.

  95. Ryan

    May 15, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    I’m out of ideas. How is this team horrible? I just can’t wrap my mind around it.

  96. Mike R

    May 15, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    It’s so weird because I can be as cynical of a fan as they come, but basically this entire year the only thing that has gotten me fired up was Jim Leyland being stupid. I’ve been indifferent to the terrible offense and even worse starting pitching and to all the losses to bad teams until now where that indifference has turned into just sheer laughter at every single terrible AB that Sheffield takes and every single ball off Ramon Santiago’s glove. Good thing he’s so sure handed that he just misplayed a ball to make it 8-4 KC!

    Hahahaha. So bad, yet so funny.

  97. T Smith

    May 15, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    Yikes. Santiago is catching the virus.

  98. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    I’m glad I got up early and got all me work done so that I could watch this beating in fabulous HD. It’s nap time. For me and the tigers.

  99. Mike R

    May 15, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Much like how I wanted to call everything bad the “Grilli” last year, I want to call every single pop up or strikeout a “Sheffield.”

    Man, Matt Joyce with a nice Sheffield to start the 9th. Good sign for a comeback.

    And for future reference, the check swing-K will be called the “Inge.” Billfer should start up a glossary.

    Oh man, Inge didn’t pull out the Inge on that AB, he went with the full blown Sheffield.

  100. T Smith

    May 15, 2008 at 5:04 pm


    Second three game sweep against the Tigers.

  101. Ryan

    May 15, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    I am officially done with the following: Ramon Santiago, Kenny Rogers, Gary Sheffield. Do Not Want. Eat the money. These three are all well below replacement level. Ramon can’t play short, Kenny has turned the KC B-lineup into sluggers, and Sheff can’t find a ball that wouldn’t look great grounded to SS.

  102. Mike in CT

    May 15, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    well…it ought to get better against the D’backs…right?

  103. linbus54

    May 15, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Jim Price just said that other teams are talking about how the Tigers look like they have no energy. They say that Matt Joyce is the only player with any energy. Are they sick? Are they upset with something?

  104. Ken from Cincinnati

    May 15, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    What exactly did they talk about in their players’ meeting today? It certainly wasn’t anything inspirational or groundbreaking. Probably along the lines of “Well, I like the pimped out Navigator over a Hummer any day of the week” or “Do you think I would be better off with placing my money in long-term bonds or short-term mutual funds?” I mean there are only two regular starters who are at the pinacle of their potential or on the up-slope. Granderson, Miguel and Verlander, all who are playing horrible. Every single other regular reached their pinacle in years past and is eroding slowly before us. Next year will just be even worse.

  105. Mike in CT

    May 15, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Maybe that’s why they’re keeping Sheff around — financial advice.

  106. Adam

    May 15, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    I quit.

    I hope they lose 120 games.

  107. Steve in Kzoo

    May 15, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    Well guys I think I’m about ready to be on the level of Mike R. So much that I want to see this team do so horrible that they are the last club to cover on Baseball tonite and on FSNFS.

    They are playing offensive and defensively way beyond subpar. They cant hit a beachball. And they sure as hell can’t pitch. Although this was Rogers first bad outing in 3 QUALITY starts. So I’ll give him a break. But man JV sucks this year injury or watever he needs a day off or something is going on seriously. Willis is coming back and who knows he might contribute but more then likely he’ll be as bad as he was(only with fewer walks hopefully). Galarraga is going to be sent down thats a joke in a half.

    No one on this team is doing what they should be doing except the rookies. They are the ones who don’t have a huge paycheck and are playing for fun. Galarraga, Bautista(before injury), Thomas, Joyce, Santiago, Inge(to an extent) and finally Polanco who has finally found his swing. Everyone else is off thinking about their new found payment and thinking what they want to do and where they want to go in the off season.

    Finally I believe that the if we stay as bad as we are, I thought I’d never say i want this but I now do. I want a DETROIT TIGER FIRESALE AND START OVER, build around Cabrera(no matter how bad he is now, he should be the face of the franchaise years to come). And also Zumaya, Curtis, and some others. We truly need this or at the very least, just eat up the contracts and release the dead weight baggages. Although that would never happen.

  108. stephen

    May 15, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    They’ve got to fire Leyland. He’s got to be the fall guy. Replacing him has a 10% chance of igniting a fire under these mopes. It’s a desperate move, but, like i said yesterday, you can’t fire the players, so you have to make a change where you can. Again, I don’t think it’s a cure all, but electro shock therapy is the only thing left to try.

  109. stephen

    May 15, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    And once again Charles B. Inge’s strikeout % is higher than his batting %. At least he is consistent!
    Never has one athlete who was not a left-handed reliever or a seven foot center parlayed one good season amongst six bad ones into so much money! And his luck continues! His suckitude is overwhelmed by Sheff’s who at least had a borderline hall of fame career to kinda sorta justify his disasterous contract. So Chas’s suckitude flying under the radar.

  110. Ryan in Brooklyn

    May 15, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    I didn’t follow the game today. And I haven’t read many of the comments, but I’m inclined to agree with Stephen – Leyland’s got to go. He always likes to say that it’s the job of the manager to have the team ready to play. He’s failed that miserably this year. I’d say give him another couple of weeks for a miraculous turn around or he’s gone. Desperate times – desperate measures.

  111. RudeMood19

    May 15, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Wow. Another loss.

    Something is going to happen.

    I fear either Sheffield will be gone, Leyland, or Kenny

  112. Steve in Kzoo

    May 15, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    I cant see why Kenny is an issue. He is besides the rookie Galarraga one of the most stable QUALITY starters we have right now, getting rid of him is not going to solve JV, Bondo or Willis’s problems. Itll just make the rotation worse!

  113. mj

    May 15, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    i talked to my dad after work tonight. here’s how the exchange went.

    me: hey, how’s it goin?
    dad: did you hear they fired leyland?!
    me: WHAT! YES!
    dad: just kidding.
    me: …
    dad: sorry.

    what a cruel joke. i saw the top of the mountain and then came crashing back to reality all within 5 seconds.

  114. Sawyer

    May 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    Forget the Panic Button.

    Push the NUKE button. This season is toast.

  115. cib

    May 15, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    The pain is unbearable. I just feel sick. Don’t know what I’d do without my fellow webloggers! Misery loves company!

    Hey Billfer, crazy idea, but, let’s do Blogger Night earlier in the season – like in June – maybe our presence will inspire??

  116. Angie

    May 15, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    Losing is a disease…. and the Tigers seem to have caught it.

    Am I the only one who gets the sense that if we brought all the guys from Toledo up and played them on a daily basis, they would win more games? If Clete Thomas and Matt Joyce are any indicators, our minor leaguers have way more solid fundamentals than the current Tigers do (eg, things like the Renteria play the other night, lack of discipline at the plate, inability or unwillingness to throw strikes…). If nothing else, at least they’d enjoy going out there and playing (and thus be a little bit more motivated to succeed); most of the Tigers look like they’re miserable when they go out there, like this is some sort of chore.

  117. cib

    May 15, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Angie, I can’t help thinking it would be worth a try. How much worse could it look?

  118. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    I have a question. Why do we have a totally different lineup every game? Is it because Leyland has to massage every players ego. Play the players that give you the best chance to win. I’m tired of the manager only thinking about offense. If you look at the AL the teams that are winning they have a team more like an NL team. Speed, defense, and productive outs. If your going to make an out at least move a runner up a base. Tampa, Boston, LA, and Cleveland all have good pitching, some speed, and good defense. We lack in all these areas right now.

  119. Chris

    May 15, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    “The pain is unbearable. I just feel sick. Don’t know what I’d do without my fellow webloggers! Misery loves company!”

    I know what you should also do…. Forget about the Tigers having any accomplishments this season and remember that in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter anyhow. And that is regardless of whether they win or lose. It’s only baseball. It’s fun. It’s interesting. It makes for good conversation… But it is only a game.

    The only people who should be feeling sick are the Tiger players, coaches & managers. They’re the ones getting paid. They’re the ones with control over what happens. They are the ones who should lose sleep. And some of them may deserve to lose their jobs over this fiasco.

    One thing I’ve learned in my life as a sports fan is that being attached to the results over a team during these kind stretches is just not worth it. There is no upside. And dreaming up scenarios where the team recovers just leads to further disappointment. So I think the best thing to do is to detach yourself from any hope and just watch the mess unfold and perhaps change your hopes altogether for the team.

    Right now I’m only interested in seeing them play good during stretches in the season and become the team we all thought they could be, at least for a little while. And we know they will at least do that because we saw them play good in late April. But, one thing I am not going to do is anymore is let myself get down because they stink.

  120. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 9:40 pm


    Great post. I agree with you 100% I want them to win, but I’m not going to ruin my summer because of this team. I bought tickets before the season started to see them here in Tampa. I don’t care how bad or good they are by then. I’m going regardless to enjoy the team and the game.

  121. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 9:43 pm

    Hey, at least Webb is pitching tonight. We won’t face him, if that matters.

  122. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    I don’t know what all the complaining was about. Pretty good game. The Tigers mounted rally after rally, falling just 4 runs short of a sure loss in extra innings. “A” for effort, I say.

    Kenny had the Royals puzzled, so puzzled that sometimes all they could do was walk to first base They were just flailing away up there, and were lucky enough to hit the ball pretty hard a couple times.

    Ramon Santiago was nice enough to come in on his day off and… and… well, he came in on his day off, and that’s the important thing.

    Todd Jones didn’t have a lead to protect or even a save opportunity he could pretend he was creating, and yet he still only gave up 1 run. Didn’t have go to any extra trouble, but he did. That’s class, my friend.

    Sheffield showed more progress, proof that the return to DH was shrewd indeed. Moving to left field got him into the game, and now this latest move has him so into the game that the game, like, totally surrounds him. Now he can slow down pitches like that dude in The Matrix slowed down those bullets. Really cool.

    The only thing that sticks in my craw is that Matt Joyce fella. You don’t start an untested rookie in a game like this. I think it kind of rattled the team. Brandon Inge was so nervous about it, he struck out 3 times. Sure, Joyce had that homer, but that wouldn’t have been a home run if they were playing in the bottom of the Grand Canyon, now would it have? Didn’t think so.

    If I had to go all the way out to Arizona, I’d want to rest up first in KC for a few days, too. So cut the guys some slack already.

  123. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 10:13 pm


    That is pretty good. I’ve had a couple tonight, and now I can’t stop laughing. Joyce will get benched tomorrow for trying too hard.

  124. Chris

    May 15, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    Yea, and that Matt Joyce guy is expendable. Dave Dombrowski needs to make a package deal and send Joyce along with Rick Porcello for Nomar Garciaparra or something. We need to get some more veterans who can help cary this the sucessful season that we all are enjoying right now.

  125. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    Thanks, Brian. Just trying to make the best of the situation. When there’s no answer for the Tigers except to PLAY BETTER, every one of them, all we can do is either laugh or fall into despair while we wait. Let’s laugh.

  126. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Nomar! You got it, Chris. He could do for the Tigers what he did for the Cubs.

    I think Neifi Perez’s suspension must be up by now. That guy is the kind of sparkplug the Tigers need. It worked in 2007 – why not 2008?

    Declare amnesty and bring them all home. Dmitri, Craig, Chris, Jose Mesa – all is forgiven! Come home. We need you and love you.

    Seriously, I wish the Tigers would have offered Sean Casey a player’s salary just to hang out with the team this year.

  127. Ken from Cincinnati

    May 15, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    Very hilarious, Sean. Our best players this year have been Clete Thomas, Matt Joyce, and Armando. Seriously. Those are the most consistently productive players we have had. I can’t believe that even as I’m typing. WTF? Angie is absolutely right. If the Mudd Hens had played in place of the Tigers this year, we would have a better record. That’s not an exaggeration at all. That’s fact….as hard as it is to say it. We don’t hit home runs any more. It’s like someone poisoned our Gatorade. That’s a more plausible theory than the idea that every superstar we have lost their mojo. I’m not confident in any player when they reach the plate. I expect a GIDP every time, even when there’s nobody on base. I figure they will find a way. Go Indians. Way to recover from adversity and find your game. That’s how you play with heart.

  128. Kathy

    May 15, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Absolutely hysterical, Sean C in Illinois!!!

  129. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    I got one more question.

    “Who’s Your TIGER?”

  130. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 10:59 pm

    Thank you, Ken. I think the Tigers will find their game, too. They’ve dug themselves quite a hole, but the worst is the WAY they’ve done it. How many games have been close, contested, win OR lose?

    Our best players this year have been Clete Thomas.

    It’s funny, but when your post first came up on the screen, I thought that was the complete sentence. Now that’s a funny line! And not entirely untrue.

  131. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 11:05 pm

    Thank you, Kathy. Laughter is the best medicine. Reader’s Digest says so.

    Maybe I should start sending my “reviews” directly to the Tigers. Might loosen ’em up. Or make them mad. Either way.

  132. Ken from Cincinnati

    May 15, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    Well, I appreciate the optimism, Sean, because I need it to sleep at night, but when I said “I figure they will find a way,” I meant that they would find a way to hit into a double play with no men on base. Let’s just keep praying I guess. They are NOT out of the playoff race yet, no matter how much we want to stick a fork in them. Do they look like they can recover? Nope. They look like the worst team in baseball history. But is it entirely possible that they will all come out of their slumps at the same time and mow down teams? Yes, I guess that it is. Let’s start with Arizona.

  133. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Right now I’m watching the Arizona/Colorado game. The announcers said hi to the Tigers. They also said that the Dbacks can’t overlook us and our great offense this weekend. In the famous words of Beavis “Uh OK”.

  134. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 11:14 pm

    I expect a GIDP every time, even when there’s nobody on base.

    Ha! I missed that the first time, Ken.

    Stop drinking now, Brian. If you do that every time the Tigers lose, you might have a serious problem by the All Star break.

  135. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Maybe I should only have a few when the Tigers win.

  136. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    They also said that the Dbacks can’t overlook us

    I remember, early in the season, all the comments from opponents (after they’d smoked Detroit) about what a great team the Tigers had, what a tough lineup the Tigers had, how the Tigers would come around, and how it all started to sound so hollow, like lip service.

    Now it’s come to the Diamondbacks “not overlooking us.” Ouch.

    Smoke them, Tigers! Smoke them, I say. Make them pay for their impunity. Roll on, juggernaut!

  137. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    “Roll on, juggernaut!”

    Now that is funny.

    We get to face Haren, some guy I never heard of, and the great Randy JOHNSON. What are the odds we take 2 of 3?

  138. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 15, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    “Maybe I should only have a few when the Tigers win.’

    Well, Brian, I’m not an advocate of total self-denial.
    I adhere to a regimen of one beer for every inning the Tigers leave men on, good for a steady buzz that sustains me through the post-game analysis.

  139. Brian in Tampa

    May 15, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    Alright, I’m out for tonight. It’s been fun Sean C. and everybody else. Talk to you all tomorrow at about 9:40. GO TIGERS!!!!!!!

  140. stephen

    May 16, 2008 at 12:38 am

    Sean, any sentence with Laughter is The Best Medicine is comedy gold, but the Tigers are clearly more fans of ‘Humor In Uniform.’ This team is clearly subsisting on a diet of Luna bars and cranberry juice.

  141. Brian P

    May 16, 2008 at 12:57 am

    Here’s a lovely stat from Baseball Tonight:

    Dan Uggla’s home run count in May: 8.
    The Tigers as a team: 7.
    Minus those from Joyce: 5.


  142. ron

    May 16, 2008 at 1:10 am

    Basically, what came out of the player’s meeting is that they just need to relax. It’s tough being a pro ballplayer and sometimes the stress becomes so unbearable that it affects their play. I wonder if the Tigers have an employee assistance program to deal with problems like this?

  143. Mike R

    May 16, 2008 at 1:23 am

    I really hope that their first game back from this trip, there is literally no one in the stadium. All the fans should just boycott showing up to the games. I was thinking of buying tickets to a series later in the year to make one of my semi-annual trips across the state but forget that. $4 gas and a terrible team? Nahhhhh, I’ll pass and buy myself a case of beer here.

  144. Chris

    May 16, 2008 at 2:17 am

    I think the question now is, should the Tigers go on a fire sale and try to trade some of these older players in order to unload big contracts and restock a depleted farm system? If any trend is emerging this season it is the formula of younger teams, with speed, good defense and good young pitching. Tigers unfortunately traded many of those pieces away in effort to put the team on the field that we see today.

    Pollanco– a good player who I would miss a lot, but the Tigers could get a lot for him from a contender

    Ordonez– Similar to Poly, Tigers could ask for a lot to a contender looking to add last year’s batting champ to their lineup.

    Sheffield– Just unload the contract. Get rid of him. Trade for a bag of balls.

    Renteria– Maybe Atlanta would trade us back Gorkys Hernandez so the can get back their ’07 SS… There they can pat themselves on the back for getting Jair Jurjjens for nothing.

  145. Steve in Kzoo

    May 16, 2008 at 3:31 am

    Nice Chris that is what i said way up in about 1/3 of the page up. Tigers firesale should happen if things stay the way they are.

    Polanco – would miss him but one of the more consistent players and would get two nice B level prospects for him.

    Sheff- release him is all i can say.

    Bondo- Trade for much needed relief or a real 3B. Maybe a A level prospect for him if he gets better?

    Ordonez- maybe Im still not sure we should trade him.

    Renteria- same way maybe he’ll come around -if not then Trade for a nice OF or IF prospect B/A Level?

    Pudge- not sure what we could get for this guy, maybe B level or two C level?

    Nate/D-Train- unload for C level prospects maybe nate and willis for one guy just get them off our payload?

    Finally I hate to say this but either Curtis or Miggy need to go. If we want a true firesale with good prospects in return Curtis or Miggy will have to go in a package for good prospects.

    FILL INS for rest of ’08

    2B- Scott Sizemore- ripping AA up in erie last time I saw.
    CF- not sure because I dont think Tigs will part ways. if so Raburn, Joyce
    SP- Galarraga for bondo, Tata for Nate, and Fossum or a nice rising quite star Eddie Bonine for Willis.
    LF- Matt Joyce hands down. Or Ryan Raburn.
    DH- Guillen to DH no matter if he whines or not about it.
    SS?-Santiago, great glove, showing promise with bat.
    3B?- Well, not sure Hessman or Holliman could play there.
    C- Inge cant do much worse then Pudge behind the plate.

    Comments on this?

  146. Mike R

    May 16, 2008 at 3:48 am

    Trading people is nice and all, but you guys aren’t taking their contracts into the equation. Magglio has $18 for next year and then 2 option years for $15 million each.

    Sheffield still has $14 million left on his deal after this year.

    Carlos Guillen has $36 million left.

    Nate Robertson has $17 million left after this year.

    Willis has $22 million left after this year.

    Bonderman has $25 million left after this year.

    Polanco’s is $4.6/year with most of this years contract left and $4.6 for next year.

    Renteria has an $11 million club option next year.

    If you’re trading off huge contracts you do 1 of 2 things:

    1) Take little in return, eat little of the contract.
    2) Eat most of the contract, get more in return.

    We’re not going to eat, say, $18 million of Bonderman’s remaining $25 million just to get ‘a real 3B’ or outfielder or whatever else.

    If a rebuilding process was just so simple as “trading off so and so” it wouldn’t take teams like Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Cincinnati, or Detroit 10-15 years each to rebuild to being relevant.

  147. Chris

    May 16, 2008 at 4:34 am

    Yes Mike R, these contracts are like the noose to hang ourselves with. As soon as an organization ties themselves up with contract obligations, there becomes zero flexibility. I think we are beginning to see a turning of the tide in MLB where teams without big payrolls become younger, faster & stocked full of good arms much sooner because they can get rid of poor performing and expensive vets. Oakland & Florida are becoming model franchises in this realm. And the Yankees and Red Sox are truly the only teams successful at getting competitive with of top payroll teams. But I don’t think they are that much more competitive. And teams such as the Mets haven’t exactly set the world on fire in their two decades of being a top payroll franchise.

    I’m afraid that Dave Dombrowski has ruined the next 3-4 years for this team with his contract-happy/ farm depleting building of his fantasy-like baseball team. I look back at each and every signing and trade that was made last winter and now wish we could have all of them back– with the possible exception of Miggy. Dombrowski should get fired and never get another GM position again. An absolute bust such as this team should forever ruin his reputation as a GM.

  148. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 16, 2008 at 8:40 am


    I forgot about Humor In Uniform. Good one. Much more apt.

  149. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 16, 2008 at 9:08 am

    Calm down, guys! 16-25 with flat play is a huge disappointment, but a fire sale isn’t the answer and isn’t going to happen. As Mike R points out, the Tigers bought what was supposed to be a really nice house and now have a hefty mortgage. There might be cracks in the foundation or it might be just leaky faucets and other annoyances, but either way, you don’t need to gut it to fix it, let alone burn it down.

    I’d settle for a bit of a shakeup. As bizarre as Leyland’s personnel moves have been, they’re not to blame for all-around poor play in every facet of the game. It could be, as Greg suggested, that Leyland just can’t motivate this team anymore. His departure, perhaps voluntary, is the only headline news change I see happening this season if things continue to go so poorly for the Tigers.

  150. jason

    May 16, 2008 at 9:47 am

    So, I have come to the conclusion that the Tigers are eliminated from the post-season in May. I have heard estimates that it takes 95 wins to be in the post season. Well, the Tigers would now have to go 79-42 the rest of the season to reach that…. good luck.

    Even to get to 90 wins, they would need to go 74-47. Its not happening.

    Don’t get me wrong, I will still watch these guys, just as I did when they lost 119 games, but I am no longer looking toward October baseball in 2008.

    They will have some good games this year, but the organization better be looking toward next year, and how we can turn this around.

  151. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 16, 2008 at 9:54 am


    We can’t help looking that far ahead, but we should try not to. Let’s hope the Tigers aren’t. This team will be a lot of fun when it gets hot.

  152. Sean C. in Illinois

    May 16, 2008 at 10:08 am

    I do like the Mud Hens suggestions. Keep Ordonez, Polanco, Joyce, Raburn, Galaragga, and the bullpen. Send the rest down and bring up the Hens. Keep the Toledo Tigers as long as it takes to reach .500.

    Then bring up the Seawolves.