Comments on: Verlander and his arm angle

By: Knapp talks Tigers pitching

Knapp talks Tigers pitching — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:14:54 +0000

[...] talks about Justin Verlander’s arm slot and balance point (Verlander’s arm angle was a rich topic last year). With Nate Robertson it is falling off to the third base side and getting too [...]

By: Knapp talks Tigers pitching

Knapp talks Tigers pitching — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:14:53 +0000

By: The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Verlander arm angle follow-up

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:07:40 +0000

[...] to Justin Verlander’s last start we discussed his dip in velocity and a change in arm angle is he was looking to make. Verlander had some improved results in his Tuesday night start against the Rangers. Looking at his [...]

By: The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Game 21: Rangers at Tigers

The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Game 21: Rangers at Tigers — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:22:42 +0000

[...] Kevin in Austin: Jack – (and someone correct me if I’m wrong on the… [...]

By: Kevin in Austin

Kevin in Austin — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:18:51 +0000

Jack – (and someone correct me if I’m wrong on the specifics) a player with 5+ years experience can veto a Minor League assignment. As for Verlander, you get 3 options for players with 5- years of experience. I don’t think we’ve ever used our options to assign him to the Minors, so I guess they technically could do so, though he’d never resign with the club after that.

Though an “injury” would accomplish the same. That said, we don’t have that kind of time, or talent in waiting, to lose those guys.

By: Jack

Jack — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:41:25 +0000

billfer

Mario

billfer.

I am at a quandry as to why FOX broadcasters Mario and Rod offer no criticisim on air with respect to Verlander, Bonderman and Robertson. Have they been instructed to hide under the covers? In my opinion all 3 pitchers should be sent to the minors in exchange for some better talent such as Galarraga. Let those boys find their arms in the minors and let’s not sacrifice anymore precious games. It is quite evident these pitchers were poorly conditioned out of spring training. Take away Galarraga’s two starts, and the Tiger’s starting rotation is 2-10.

Help me understand the biased defense of Verlander, Bonderman and Robertson.

Jack in Ann Arbor

By: The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Game 21: Rangers at Tigers

The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Game 21: Rangers at Tigers — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:23:40 +0000

[...] Michael in Seattle: “Did anyone watch Zambrano pitch for the Cubbies… [...]

By: Michael in Seattle

Michael in Seattle — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:16:17 +0000

“Did anyone watch Zambrano pitch for the Cubbies yesterday? I nearly fell of my chair watching his control. Every pitch: filthy!”

I’m concerned with Verlander’s loss of velocity as well. But last April everyone in Cub land was kvetching about Zambrano’s control and velocity, when in 34 innings his BB/K ratio was 19/25 and era 5.77. He was dominant from May-July, then posted the following in August: 29.1 innings, 17/21 BB/K, and 7.06 era. This kind of inconsistency is not uncommon, even among so-called aces.

The problem this year is that the entire starting staff is slumping at the same time, something that happened last August as well, when they posted a 6.55 era as starters for the month. They rebounded with a 4.03 era in September.

By: greg

greg — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:09:03 +0000

I might add that I’m particularly concerned about the lack of command after two consecutive high pitch outings. Early on, he had an absolute gem going before a defensive comedy of errors led to a blowout. All of his earlier outings he looked fine until the end when they left him in to long. This last outing he did not look good at all.

By: greg

greg — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:04:23 +0000

I wish I could remember the source, but a couple of times this year I remember reading/hearing that the Tigers specifically wanted Verlander to throw with less velocity this year to facilitate greater movement on his pitchers. I THINK, one might have been an interview with Leyland, another was an article I read somewhere.

By: Ben

Ben — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:53:18 +0000

Thanks Ryan – if accurate, that clears a lot up.

By: Ryan in Brooklyn

Ryan in Brooklyn — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:45:39 +0000

For those curious about the graphs versus Verlander’s comments about his arm angle – I think the graph could be spot on with what he said. Per Bilfer’s post, the pitch fx system picks up the pitch 50 ft from the plate. That’s 10 ft from the pitcher’s hand. So it’s not graphing where he released the ball, but where the ball is headed after it’s left his hand. If he’s got his arm more laid off in ‘08, that would surely show the ball further to the left on the graph – which it does. Release point isn’t merely a function of arm angle, but also the time in the delivery when the pitch is released. The graph says to me that he’s got his arm off to the side, but he’s also releasing it earlier, ie. when his arm is higher in it’s arc. Thinking about the throwing motion, it makes sense to me that releasing too early would cause a velocity drop. He’s not getting his arm to full velocity before letting go of the pitch.

The result – less velocity with less command. Sound familiar?

This is probably reading a little too far into it. And I’m sure it’s an over simplification, but it’s interesting, nonetheless.

By: Kathy

Kathy — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:24:31 +0000

Did anyone watch Zambrano pitch for the Cubbies yesterday? I nearly fell of my chair watching his control. Every pitch: filthy!

By: Rick G

Rick G — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:22:42 +0000

Can I start the push to get Leo Mazzone hired as the new pitching coach? Is that crazy?

By: Scott

Scott — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:14:11 +0000

You know, I’m inclined to agree with Scotsw. I know coaches can only do so much, but to me the fact that Bonderman and Verlander both have seem to hit a wall in their development, as far as becoming elite pitchers, speaks volumes about Hernandez. Where is Roger Craig when you need him?