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	<title>Comments on: Game 27:  Tigers at Yankees</title>
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		<title>By: Scottpb</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82454</link>
		<dc:creator>Scottpb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82454</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that we are trying to get rid of a starter to make room for a guy without enough work to show us what he really has. the teams he has beat have never seen him before and you have to see what kind of adjustments Major League Hitters will make to him. If he looks good through them a second time then maybe it is time to lose kenny or nate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that we are trying to get rid of a starter to make room for a guy without enough work to show us what he really has. the teams he has beat have never seen him before and you have to see what kind of adjustments Major League Hitters will make to him. If he looks good through them a second time then maybe it is time to lose kenny or nate.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82453</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82453</guid>
		<description>Nate&#039;s problem (from my recollections this year and in years past) has been the big inning.  He generally throws 5-6 innings and gives up a crooked in number in only 1 of them.  He has had control problems before, and even though his splits are better early this season, he still runs up the pitch count with 3-ball counts.  Not coincidentally, these 3-ball counts seem to occur more frequently in Nate&#039;s big innings.

At any rate, I agree with Ryan that the peripherals are pretty good and he most certainly won&#039;t finish the season with an ERA north of 6.  If they get approximately league average ERA out of Nate, he will be a steal given his salary of $4.25 million (remember, this is a league where Jason Marquis makes $7 million and Gil Meche makes $10 million).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate&#8217;s problem (from my recollections this year and in years past) has been the big inning.  He generally throws 5-6 innings and gives up a crooked in number in only 1 of them.  He has had control problems before, and even though his splits are better early this season, he still runs up the pitch count with 3-ball counts.  Not coincidentally, these 3-ball counts seem to occur more frequently in Nate&#8217;s big innings.</p>
<p>At any rate, I agree with Ryan that the peripherals are pretty good and he most certainly won&#8217;t finish the season with an ERA north of 6.  If they get approximately league average ERA out of Nate, he will be a steal given his salary of $4.25 million (remember, this is a league where Jason Marquis makes $7 million and Gil Meche makes $10 million).</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82449</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82449</guid>
		<description>Sean,

No he hasn&#039;t gotten blown out this year.  He&#039;s been very consistent in pitching 5 to 7 innings and giving up 4 to 5 runs.  He has clustered his hits.  Which could be a mental thing, a problem with pitching out of the stretch, or pure bad luck.  If he maintains his BB/K ratio, however, his ERA almost certainly comes down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean,</p>
<p>No he hasn&#8217;t gotten blown out this year.  He&#8217;s been very consistent in pitching 5 to 7 innings and giving up 4 to 5 runs.  He has clustered his hits.  Which could be a mental thing, a problem with pitching out of the stretch, or pure bad luck.  If he maintains his BB/K ratio, however, his ERA almost certainly comes down.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82448</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82448</guid>
		<description>And... from my vantage point, Rapada was &lt;i&gt;huge&lt;/i&gt; in last night&#039;s win. I hope Bautista bought him a drink, and that Rogers bought him a car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And&#8230; from my vantage point, Rapada was <i>huge</i> in last night&#8217;s win. I hope Bautista bought him a drink, and that Rogers bought him a car.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82447</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82447</guid>
		<description>Hey, anybody who watched the game (again, I can&#039;t) - how did Guillen look at third last night?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, anybody who watched the game (again, I can&#8217;t) &#8211; how did Guillen look at third last night?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82445</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82445</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;This guy is a fifth starter performing exactly like a good fifth starter should.&lt;/b&gt;

Ryan, I think you nailed it right there. But where does his 6.91 ERA come from? Did he get blown out once 
(can&#039;t remember)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>This guy is a fifth starter performing exactly like a good fifth starter should.</b></p>
<p>Ryan, I think you nailed it right there. But where does his 6.91 ERA come from? Did he get blown out once<br />
(can&#8217;t remember)?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82444</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82444</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;But the season is VERY early&lt;/b&gt;

I agree, Scott. No one is a bad investment by April 30 already. Not even Jacque Jones (though I still wish they&#039;d move on to some other experiment there).

I admire taking the long view on stocking the farm system, but an underachieving 12-15 team with a high stake in winning NOW isn&#039;t likely to pursue this with such a high-profile move as trading Robertson in mid-season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>But the season is VERY early</b></p>
<p>I agree, Scott. No one is a bad investment by April 30 already. Not even Jacque Jones (though I still wish they&#8217;d move on to some other experiment there).</p>
<p>I admire taking the long view on stocking the farm system, but an underachieving 12-15 team with a high stake in winning NOW isn&#8217;t likely to pursue this with such a high-profile move as trading Robertson in mid-season.</p>
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		<title>By: Andre</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82441</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82441</guid>
		<description>Scott-

You&#039;re right that its early in the season to assess Willis&#039; future definitively, but its not too early to note some important warning signs. Since his 22 win season he has progressively deteriorated each passing year in almost every important category including era, whip, k&#039;s and bb. his youth is a double edged sword because it leaves open the possibility of future improvement while doing nothing to improve the present situation. I haven&#039;t seen the reports from his bullpen sessions and honestly i think that it would be irresponsible to put him back on the active roster without a very positive rehab stint in the minors. I&#039;m not a professional scout, but I was shocked at how bad he was in his early outings. It was literally the worst I&#039;ve seen an MLB pitcher perform. When I saw him go down with the hyper-extension I thought he had faked an injury to get out of the game (until i saw the replays). until they can be reasonably sure that he&#039;s got it together, we can&#039;t afford to put him out there. robertson can do a decent job of eating up innings as a lefty and he doesn&#039;t walk 7. the whole thing blows cause i had high hopes for Willis (i love lefties!!!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott-</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that its early in the season to assess Willis&#8217; future definitively, but its not too early to note some important warning signs. Since his 22 win season he has progressively deteriorated each passing year in almost every important category including era, whip, k&#8217;s and bb. his youth is a double edged sword because it leaves open the possibility of future improvement while doing nothing to improve the present situation. I haven&#8217;t seen the reports from his bullpen sessions and honestly i think that it would be irresponsible to put him back on the active roster without a very positive rehab stint in the minors. I&#8217;m not a professional scout, but I was shocked at how bad he was in his early outings. It was literally the worst I&#8217;ve seen an MLB pitcher perform. When I saw him go down with the hyper-extension I thought he had faked an injury to get out of the game (until i saw the replays). until they can be reasonably sure that he&#8217;s got it together, we can&#8217;t afford to put him out there. robertson can do a decent job of eating up innings as a lefty and he doesn&#8217;t walk 7. the whole thing blows cause i had high hopes for Willis (i love lefties!!!).</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82440</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82440</guid>
		<description>Andre - My prediction isn&#039;t so much a comment on the Tigers pitching as it is one on what a disappointment it will be if &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; lineup can&#039;t score consistently.  4 shutouts in 27 games, double digits in 5 or 6 (?) others - that&#039;s not getting it done.

I&#039;m revising my Tiger win prediction formula. (RUN AVERAGE, LAST 135 GAMES / 6) x 80 + 12 = 2008 TIGER WINS. Plugging some numbers in... A 5.2 average yields an 81-81 record. A 7.0 average - 105-57. Yes! I rest my case (ha ha).

This is the kind of offhand prediction that can&#039;t be taken seriously. Unless I turn out to be right, in which case I will claim to have done searching analysis only a trained statistician would understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andre &#8211; My prediction isn&#8217;t so much a comment on the Tigers pitching as it is one on what a disappointment it will be if <i>this</i> lineup can&#8217;t score consistently.  4 shutouts in 27 games, double digits in 5 or 6 (?) others &#8211; that&#8217;s not getting it done.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m revising my Tiger win prediction formula. (RUN AVERAGE, LAST 135 GAMES / 6) x 80 + 12 = 2008 TIGER WINS. Plugging some numbers in&#8230; A 5.2 average yields an 81-81 record. A 7.0 average &#8211; 105-57. Yes! I rest my case (ha ha).</p>
<p>This is the kind of offhand prediction that can&#8217;t be taken seriously. Unless I turn out to be right, in which case I will claim to have done searching analysis only a trained statistician would understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82439</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82439</guid>
		<description>No!  Four runs in 6.1 innings every start?  That&#039;s what this team needs.  What does this team need to trade for anyway?  A starter?  What on earth makes anyone think Nate would bring a better starter in trade?  This guy is a fifth starter performing exactly like a good fifth starter should.  His K/BB is nearing 4, and his BABIP against is almost .350, which will almost definitely regress to near .300.  Even with that bad luck, he has a league average WHIP.  Why the rush to trade a guy with such positive peripherals, who would statistically be expected to lower his ERA to around 4 by the end of the season?  He has been the second best starter on the team this year, and the best of the five in the original rotation.  I fully agree that Galarraga deserves to stay in the rotation, but trying to trade your best starter, who has the least trade value, is not a good idea.  Personally, I&#039;d like to see some &quot;tired arm&quot; DL stints for JV and Bondo while they figure out if Kenny and Dontrelle have what it takes to contribute this year.  If JV and Bondo are going to struggle all year, they may as well do it in 140 innings instead of 190.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No!  Four runs in 6.1 innings every start?  That&#8217;s what this team needs.  What does this team need to trade for anyway?  A starter?  What on earth makes anyone think Nate would bring a better starter in trade?  This guy is a fifth starter performing exactly like a good fifth starter should.  His K/BB is nearing 4, and his BABIP against is almost .350, which will almost definitely regress to near .300.  Even with that bad luck, he has a league average WHIP.  Why the rush to trade a guy with such positive peripherals, who would statistically be expected to lower his ERA to around 4 by the end of the season?  He has been the second best starter on the team this year, and the best of the five in the original rotation.  I fully agree that Galarraga deserves to stay in the rotation, but trying to trade your best starter, who has the least trade value, is not a good idea.  Personally, I&#8217;d like to see some &#8220;tired arm&#8221; DL stints for JV and Bondo while they figure out if Kenny and Dontrelle have what it takes to contribute this year.  If JV and Bondo are going to struggle all year, they may as well do it in 140 innings instead of 190.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82438</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82438</guid>
		<description>I think Galarraga has done a fantastic job, but I also think it&#039;s too early to annoint the guy who has 4 career starts as the #5 starter in the rotation.  None of these lineups have seen him before, so the scouting report is limited.  Let&#039;s see what his output is in June and July when he&#039;s facing teams for the second or third time.  

I definitely agree that Willis needs to work out his problems down in Toledo, but he belongs in the big league rotation if he&#039;s healthy and effective.  

At a minimum, sending Galarraga down give you some starting pitching depth, and by midseason, even Porcello could be able to contribute a start or two in an emergency.  As Sean C. rightly points out, we are one injury away from having a major hole in the rotation to fill, so it makes sense to have guys with some experience around (even if it&#039;s only 6-7 starts).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Galarraga has done a fantastic job, but I also think it&#8217;s too early to annoint the guy who has 4 career starts as the #5 starter in the rotation.  None of these lineups have seen him before, so the scouting report is limited.  Let&#8217;s see what his output is in June and July when he&#8217;s facing teams for the second or third time.  </p>
<p>I definitely agree that Willis needs to work out his problems down in Toledo, but he belongs in the big league rotation if he&#8217;s healthy and effective.  </p>
<p>At a minimum, sending Galarraga down give you some starting pitching depth, and by midseason, even Porcello could be able to contribute a start or two in an emergency.  As Sean C. rightly points out, we are one injury away from having a major hole in the rotation to fill, so it makes sense to have guys with some experience around (even if it&#8217;s only 6-7 starts).</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82437</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82437</guid>
		<description>Andre-
I agree with your statement regarding not keeping bad investments.  But the season is VERY early, and Dontrelle&#039;s two bad starts do not make a bad investment. True, there has been a noticeable downward trend in his control in the last year, which has definitely affected his performance.  But his track record is solid, if not very good, having reached 22 wins in a season only 3 years ago.  And let&#039;s not forget he is only 26 years old.  He is an inning eater which is great for saving the bullpen.  Besides, there have been positive reports regarding his control from the bullpen sessions he has pitched recently.

Sean -
There are always teams looking for a starting left-hander.  We don&#039;t need to get a major-leaguer in return, just a top ten prospect from someone&#039;s farm system.  The Tiger position players are getting a little long in the tooth, and the way the farm system has been decimated in the last half year, it would be good to begin to restock it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andre-<br />
I agree with your statement regarding not keeping bad investments.  But the season is VERY early, and Dontrelle&#8217;s two bad starts do not make a bad investment. True, there has been a noticeable downward trend in his control in the last year, which has definitely affected his performance.  But his track record is solid, if not very good, having reached 22 wins in a season only 3 years ago.  And let&#8217;s not forget he is only 26 years old.  He is an inning eater which is great for saving the bullpen.  Besides, there have been positive reports regarding his control from the bullpen sessions he has pitched recently.</p>
<p>Sean -<br />
There are always teams looking for a starting left-hander.  We don&#8217;t need to get a major-leaguer in return, just a top ten prospect from someone&#8217;s farm system.  The Tiger position players are getting a little long in the tooth, and the way the farm system has been decimated in the last half year, it would be good to begin to restock it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean C. in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82436</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean C. in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82436</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;So I say get something, anything for Nate, and bring Galarraga into the rotation permanently.&lt;/b&gt;

I almost agree, but what could the Tigers get for Robertson that they need? You can&#039;t just give him away, and they might end up only an injury away (Rogers or Willis) from living to regret the move. And Galarraga could pitch a no-hitter next time out and still be out when Willis is deemed healthy. That&#039;s not what I would do, but it is what Leyland would do - I&#039;m sure of it.

I agree with the sentiment &quot;how can Granderson improve against lefties if he never sees them?&quot; I don&#039;t get it. Are the Tigers not a better team with Granderson in the lineup and in center field - period?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>So I say get something, anything for Nate, and bring Galarraga into the rotation permanently.</b></p>
<p>I almost agree, but what could the Tigers get for Robertson that they need? You can&#8217;t just give him away, and they might end up only an injury away (Rogers or Willis) from living to regret the move. And Galarraga could pitch a no-hitter next time out and still be out when Willis is deemed healthy. That&#8217;s not what I would do, but it is what Leyland would do &#8211; I&#8217;m sure of it.</p>
<p>I agree with the sentiment &#8220;how can Granderson improve against lefties if he never sees them?&#8221; I don&#8217;t get it. Are the Tigers not a better team with Granderson in the lineup and in center field &#8211; period?</p>
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		<title>By: Andre</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82435</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82435</guid>
		<description>scott-

&quot;they have invested too much time and pride in Dontrelle to demote him or trade him&quot;

the only thing worse that a bad investment is to stick with that bad investment in the hope of a miracle turnaround. not to bust your b@lls, but that&#039;s my biggest pet peeve is when teams hold on to guys that just never really pan out. i&#039;m not saying the Tigers shouldn&#039;t give Willis the chance to prove himself (early injuries) but I think he needs to do that in the minors (complete lack of control). if he can&#039;t pitch effectively, it doesn&#039;t really matter if they&#039;re paying him 20mil a year or $20 a year...he just doesn&#039;t belong.

as for Robertson, every year that i&#039;ve watched him i&#039;ve thought would be his breakout year and every year he hasn&#039;t broken through. its a weird thing considering how many strikeouts and ground-ball double plays he induces. but he always seems to randomly get tagged for big innings. so i think that its time for him to go too, or for the Tigers to find him a different role (LF perhaps, he couldn&#039;t be worse right?).

sean - 

i hope you aren&#039;t right, but i have a feeling we will end up needing the offense to average 6+ runs a game to really lock up the playoffs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>scott-</p>
<p>&#8220;they have invested too much time and pride in Dontrelle to demote him or trade him&#8221;</p>
<p>the only thing worse that a bad investment is to stick with that bad investment in the hope of a miracle turnaround. not to bust your <a href="mailto:b@lls">b@lls</a>, but that&#8217;s my biggest pet peeve is when teams hold on to guys that just never really pan out. i&#8217;m not saying the Tigers shouldn&#8217;t give Willis the chance to prove himself (early injuries) but I think he needs to do that in the minors (complete lack of control). if he can&#8217;t pitch effectively, it doesn&#8217;t really matter if they&#8217;re paying him 20mil a year or $20 a year&#8230;he just doesn&#8217;t belong.</p>
<p>as for Robertson, every year that i&#8217;ve watched him i&#8217;ve thought would be his breakout year and every year he hasn&#8217;t broken through. its a weird thing considering how many strikeouts and ground-ball double plays he induces. but he always seems to randomly get tagged for big innings. so i think that its time for him to go too, or for the Tigers to find him a different role (LF perhaps, he couldn&#8217;t be worse right?).</p>
<p>sean &#8211; </p>
<p>i hope you aren&#8217;t right, but i have a feeling we will end up needing the offense to average 6+ runs a game to really lock up the playoffs.</p>
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		<title>By: Scottpb</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82429</link>
		<dc:creator>Scottpb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/04/game-27-tigers-at-yankees-2/#comment-82429</guid>
		<description>people are talking about sitting granderson agionst leftys until his swing improves but if he can see more pitches it is my belief he will improve sooo  let him strike out twice tonight and then hit a double.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>people are talking about sitting granderson agionst leftys until his swing improves but if he can see more pitches it is my belief he will improve sooo  let him strike out twice tonight and then hit a double.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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