Comments on: Fanning the Inge/Thames trade fires http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:11:17 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77557 Chris in Dallas Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:29:44 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77557 Ugh. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The '07 bullpen wasn't entirely terrible if you take Mesa and Capellan's numbers out of the mix. The problem with that team was having to use 473 different starting pitchers. It's too much to ask to have the same 5 guys make every start, but if this year's club can use only 7 or fewer starters everything should be fine. Bonderman, Willis and Rogers are the key. 2 of those 3 need to go 200 innings. Ugh. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. The ‘07 bullpen wasn’t entirely terrible if you take Mesa and Capellan’s numbers out of the mix. The problem with that team was having to use 473 different starting pitchers. It’s too much to ask to have the same 5 guys make every start, but if this year’s club can use only 7 or fewer starters everything should be fine. Bonderman, Willis and Rogers are the key. 2 of those 3 need to go 200 innings.

]]> By: Kathy http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77555 Kathy Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:39:32 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77555 Miner always worries me. Miner always worries me.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77554 billfer Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:55:13 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77554 Well yes, if Rodney and Zumaya are healthy and Jones doesn't have any more arm strength issues (and he did look pretty good tonight in a 1-2-3 inning) then the bullpen should be fine. But none of those things exist right now! Hence the apprehension. I'm not worried about Miner and Seay right now and that's it. Bautista is certainly encouraging and Grilli should be adequate. But Bazardo's soreness bothers me (he only faced one batter tonight, don't know if that was be design or not) as does the absence of Cruceta. A healthy Rodney and Jones and a bunch of extra guys and I'm okay with the pen. But that's not the current situation. Well yes, if Rodney and Zumaya are healthy and Jones doesn’t have any more arm strength issues (and he did look pretty good tonight in a 1-2-3 inning) then the bullpen should be fine. But none of those things exist right now! Hence the apprehension.

I’m not worried about Miner and Seay right now and that’s it. Bautista is certainly encouraging and Grilli should be adequate.

But Bazardo’s soreness bothers me (he only faced one batter tonight, don’t know if that was be design or not) as does the absence of Cruceta.

A healthy Rodney and Jones and a bunch of extra guys and I’m okay with the pen. But that’s not the current situation.

]]> By: T Smith http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77553 T Smith Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:34:40 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77553 I wouldn't say trading Heilman for Thames is like trading Joel Zumaya for a bench player. Thames is highly underrated, in my estimation. Yes, he's a bench player in Detroit, but on the right club he could well be the prominant slugger. I think Dombrowski is right holding out to get something of value for Thames. Mark my words, if we trade Thames, three or four years from now a lot of people will second guess the trade if we don't get someone of high value in return. I wouldn’t say trading Heilman for Thames is like trading Joel Zumaya for a bench player. Thames is highly underrated, in my estimation. Yes, he’s a bench player in Detroit, but on the right club he could well be the prominant slugger. I think Dombrowski is right holding out to get something of value for Thames.

Mark my words, if we trade Thames, three or four years from now a lot of people will second guess the trade if we don’t get someone of high value in return.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77552 Stephen Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:57:56 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77552 Chris, I agree. Let's hope we're not seven games out by the break! Seriously, we have a 40-year-old closer who is on borrowed time. The healthy guys are your #9 and #10 guys on other staff. Let's remember last year when we kept saying 'just wait until Zumaya and Rodney get back.' By the time the bullpen was somewhat stabilized, the race was over. Starting lineup: A Starting pitching: A Bullpen: D Chris, I agree. Let’s hope we’re not seven games out by the break! Seriously, we have a 40-year-old closer who is on borrowed time. The healthy guys are your #9 and #10 guys on other staff. Let’s remember last year when we kept saying ‘just wait until Zumaya and Rodney get back.’ By the time the bullpen was somewhat stabilized, the race was over.
Starting lineup: A
Starting pitching: A
Bullpen: D

]]> By: Chris in Nashville http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77549 Chris in Nashville Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:51:22 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77549 I agree with you Eric...if all those guys are healthy, that isn't a bad bullpen at all...but who knows what Zumaya will be when he comes back, Bautista has a history of walking guys, Rodney seems to be fairly injury prone and Jonesey has the tendency to implode (though I'm personally not as worried about him). Byrdak and Seay were great last year, but who knows if they can repeat that, they haven't really showed they can do that consistently yet. It's early, but from the day we dealt our future away for the present, I've been wanting us to go out and get another arm in the bullpen. My thought process is, why go out and put this unreal offense and strong rotation together (with it's own question marks) and have a bullpen that has as many question marks as it does? Which is why if you have to trade Thames/Inge and whoever else to make the deal work, (within reason) you make it happen. I agree with you Eric…if all those guys are healthy, that isn’t a bad bullpen at all…but who knows what Zumaya will be when he comes back, Bautista has a history of walking guys, Rodney seems to be fairly injury prone and Jonesey has the tendency to implode (though I’m personally not as worried about him). Byrdak and Seay were great last year, but who knows if they can repeat that, they haven’t really showed they can do that consistently yet.

It’s early, but from the day we dealt our future away for the present, I’ve been wanting us to go out and get another arm in the bullpen. My thought process is, why go out and put this unreal offense and strong rotation together (with it’s own question marks) and have a bullpen that has as many question marks as it does? Which is why if you have to trade Thames/Inge and whoever else to make the deal work, (within reason) you make it happen.

]]> By: Eric Cioe http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77548 Eric Cioe Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:44:07 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77548 We don't have what it takes to get Heilman. This is like trading Joel Zumaya for a bench player. The bullpen might be a weakness for a while, but if Bautista turns out any good, then I could see us having one of the best pens by the break: Jones Zumaya Rodney Bautista Seay Byrdak Miner/Bazardo We don’t have what it takes to get Heilman. This is like trading Joel Zumaya for a bench player.

The bullpen might be a weakness for a while, but if Bautista turns out any good, then I could see us having one of the best pens by the break:

Jones
Zumaya
Rodney
Bautista
Seay
Byrdak
Miner/Bazardo

]]> By: Lee Panas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77547 Lee Panas Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:21:57 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77547 It's true that bullpens are unpredictable in good ways and bad ways. On one hand, a guy like Bautista could come out of nowhere and have a solid season. On the other hand, someone like Byrdak might have been a fluke last year. Most good teams have a couple of guys they can depend on to have good seasons though. The Tigers don't really have anybody I consider anywhere near a sure thing going into the season. I'm still picking them to win the division but the bullpen is not going to make it easy. It’s true that bullpens are unpredictable in good ways and bad ways. On one hand, a guy like Bautista could come out of nowhere and have a solid season. On the other hand, someone like Byrdak might have been a fluke last year. Most good teams have a couple of guys they can depend on to have good seasons though. The Tigers don’t really have anybody I consider anywhere near a sure thing going into the season.

I’m still picking them to win the division but the bullpen is not going to make it easy.

]]> By: Walt at CMU http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77545 Walt at CMU Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:43:01 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77545 I like Thames, but I think he is easily replaced by Raburn or Hessman. Hopefully someone that has been horrible this spring will be called up and prove to be decent ala Byrdak last year. Bull pens are always unpredictible. I will wait until the all star break to be seriously worried about ours. I just want the season to start. I like Thames, but I think he is easily replaced by Raburn or Hessman.

Hopefully someone that has been horrible this spring will be called up and prove to be decent ala Byrdak last year.

Bull pens are always unpredictible. I will wait until the all star break to be seriously worried about ours. I just want the season to start.

]]> By: Lee Panas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77544 Lee Panas Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:10:42 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77544 I think the Tigers bullpen is a big deal. They may have enough hitting and starting pitching to overcome it but they also may not. It's a bad bullpen and it will make winning more difficult. They will need to get more innings out of a starting pitching staff which I think can be quite good but is loaded with question marks and little depth should injuries occur. I think the Tigers bullpen is a big deal. They may have enough hitting and starting pitching to overcome it but they also may not. It’s a bad bullpen and it will make winning more difficult. They will need to get more innings out of a starting pitching staff which I think can be quite good but is loaded with question marks and little depth should injuries occur.

]]> By: Chris in Dallas http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77543 Chris in Dallas Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:02:33 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77543 Don't forget that Bautista has had a nice Spring. Neyer is reporting that Chien-Lung Hu or whatever the heck his name is for the Dodgers might end up playing 3B until LaRoche is ready and/or Nomah is healthy. They seem to be going out of their way to *not* trade for Inge. Don’t forget that Bautista has had a nice Spring.

Neyer is reporting that Chien-Lung Hu or whatever the heck his name is for the Dodgers might end up playing 3B until LaRoche is ready and/or Nomah is healthy. They seem to be going out of their way to *not* trade for Inge.

]]> By: rings http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77542 rings Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:01:52 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77542 I'd hate to see Thames go, as I've always liked him, but Heilman would be a better option than some of the rumors. And yes, Stephen, for the the right team who would play him, Thames would be worth it...the guy would hit 40+ over a full season - and that has value to anyone, particularly versus a RH reliever. I’d hate to see Thames go, as I’ve always liked him, but Heilman would be a better option than some of the rumors.
And yes, Stephen, for the the right team who would play him, Thames would be worth it…the guy would hit 40+ over a full season – and that has value to anyone, particularly versus a RH reliever.

]]> By: don http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77541 don Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:46:01 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77541 The bullpen will be no worse than last year. Grilli, Seay, Byrdak, Miner are all solid. Jones is jones. The fact that cruceta and rodney are questions doesn’t “border on terrifying.” Billfer’s being very un-dude. Even if we had those guys, the pen would be only average. Heilman would be an excellent addition, though. Let’s not get too down about the pen, it’ll be fine even if it’s not 2005-lights-out-excellent. The bullpen will be no worse than last year. Grilli, Seay, Byrdak, Miner are all solid. Jones is jones. The fact that cruceta and rodney are questions doesn’t “border on terrifying.” Billfer’s being very un-dude. Even if we had those guys, the pen would be only average. Heilman would be an excellent addition, though. Let’s not get too down about the pen, it’ll be fine even if it’s not 2005-lights-out-excellent.

]]> By: don http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77540 don Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:39:01 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77540 More grilli-hate. Why? He's a league average reliever and he makes less than $500k. No, you're right, let's cut him! More grilli-hate. Why? He’s a league average reliever and he makes less than $500k. No, you’re right, let’s cut him!

]]> By: Chris in Nashville http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77539 Chris in Nashville Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:38:11 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2008/03/fanning-the-ingethames-trade-fires/#comment-77539 Yeah, we might have to package something to get Heilman, which I'm not sure we can do at this point...I would really hate to see Thames go, but we have enough offense...though it would be nice to have him as insurance on the bench, other needs are prevailing at this point....like the fact that we have a potential to have the worst bullpen in the bigs...everyone knew the bullpen was going to be a concern, but not like this. It's getting scary and we haven't played a game that counts yet. Yeah, we might have to package something to get Heilman, which I’m not sure we can do at this point…I would really hate to see Thames go, but we have enough offense…though it would be nice to have him as insurance on the bench, other needs are prevailing at this point….like the fact that we have a potential to have the worst bullpen in the bigs…everyone knew the bullpen was going to be a concern, but not like this. It’s getting scary and we haven’t played a game that counts yet.

]]>