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	<title>Comments on: Well I&#8217;m glad that&#8217;s over</title>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75175</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 07:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75175</guid>
		<description>If you ain&#039;t cheatin&#039;, you ain&#039;t tryin&#039;...
-Anon

Personally if I were interested in cheating in baseball(which I&#039;m not sure if using the test even bothers me) and who did it I&#039;d much rather read a book like Juiced by Canseco - who had the inside track and is credited as bringing the stuff into the game by many.

The truth(who knows if this report is even telling the truth or used pressure to create false acusations) the WHOLE TRUTH (which the report seems to be lacking) and nothing but the truth (again who knows).



Inge on the otherhand is a longtime Tiger an exceptional third-baseman (I really don&#039;t care what anyone says), a good media personality and frankly not a SMART hitter.

If he were a good hitter then there really would be not much to hang your hat on if you were an Inge hater.  


The reason Inge posts (IMO) garner many responses is because most people tend to see one glaring side and ignore the other.


With Crag/Casey gone Inge could be seen as the free-swinging weak spot - which many fans (this site being no exception) - a rally-killer and they thing they must crusade against the Inge lovers inorder to make the lineup more ridiculous than it already was and is.


Where are the posts for/against Pudge???  He didn&#039;t exactly do too well last year.

Go Tigs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you ain&#8217;t cheatin&#8217;, you ain&#8217;t tryin&#8217;&#8230;<br />
-Anon</p>
<p>Personally if I were interested in cheating in baseball(which I&#8217;m not sure if using the test even bothers me) and who did it I&#8217;d much rather read a book like Juiced by Canseco &#8211; who had the inside track and is credited as bringing the stuff into the game by many.</p>
<p>The truth(who knows if this report is even telling the truth or used pressure to create false acusations) the WHOLE TRUTH (which the report seems to be lacking) and nothing but the truth (again who knows).</p>
<p>Inge on the otherhand is a longtime Tiger an exceptional third-baseman (I really don&#8217;t care what anyone says), a good media personality and frankly not a SMART hitter.</p>
<p>If he were a good hitter then there really would be not much to hang your hat on if you were an Inge hater.  </p>
<p>The reason Inge posts (IMO) garner many responses is because most people tend to see one glaring side and ignore the other.</p>
<p>With Crag/Casey gone Inge could be seen as the free-swinging weak spot &#8211; which many fans (this site being no exception) &#8211; a rally-killer and they thing they must crusade against the Inge lovers inorder to make the lineup more ridiculous than it already was and is.</p>
<p>Where are the posts for/against Pudge???  He didn&#8217;t exactly do too well last year.</p>
<p>Go Tigs!</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75171</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75171</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that there are only 56 comments concerning the biggest scandal in baseball since 1919. A statement by Brandon Inge concerning anything would garner twice as many responses. Are people so inured to this cheating in baseball and boorish behavior by athletes in all sports that they just don&#039;t care?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that there are only 56 comments concerning the biggest scandal in baseball since 1919. A statement by Brandon Inge concerning anything would garner twice as many responses. Are people so inured to this cheating in baseball and boorish behavior by athletes in all sports that they just don&#8217;t care?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75149</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75149</guid>
		<description>Dave, I don&#039;t think that&#039;s right.  Slander and libel are intentional torts.  But the &quot;intent&quot; element merely requires that the speaker/writer intended to say what he did.  

Intent to do harm would certainly be relevant to punitive damages (and might be a crime?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s right.  Slander and libel are intentional torts.  But the &#8220;intent&#8221; element merely requires that the speaker/writer intended to say what he did.  </p>
<p>Intent to do harm would certainly be relevant to punitive damages (and might be a crime?).</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75146</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75146</guid>
		<description>The players would also have to prove that any false information was cited for the purpose of doing them some kind of harm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The players would also have to prove that any false information was cited for the purpose of doing them some kind of harm.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75142</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75142</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m an attorney (although I don&#039;t handle these types of cases).  A lot of people talk about suing for libel.  I think even Roger Clemens threatened it.  MLB indemnified Mitchell, so Mitchell does not face any personal liability.

Libel is a tough burden.  Clemens, or any player, has the burden of proving that the report was untrue.  The burden is just to prove it by a &quot;preponderance of the evidence,&quot; it isn&#039;t like the criminal law standard of &quot;beyond a reasonable doubt.&quot;  The problem is that the report doesn&#039;t explicitly say &quot;Clemens used steroids.&quot;  It says &quot;so and so said that Clemens used steroids, and here&#039;s a copy of a check he wrote.&quot;  Unless the informant didn&#039;t actually say those things, it&#039;s hard to accuse the report of being inaccurate.  And it has to be explicitly wrong -- I don&#039;t think innuendo counts.

I would advise the players that they don&#039;t have any legal recourse, although I&#039;m sure there are plenty of money and attention-hungry attorneys who will take on such a case.  It complicates things that all of the players were given a chance to talk to Mitchell, but declined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m an attorney (although I don&#8217;t handle these types of cases).  A lot of people talk about suing for libel.  I think even Roger Clemens threatened it.  MLB indemnified Mitchell, so Mitchell does not face any personal liability.</p>
<p>Libel is a tough burden.  Clemens, or any player, has the burden of proving that the report was untrue.  The burden is just to prove it by a &#8220;preponderance of the evidence,&#8221; it isn&#8217;t like the criminal law standard of &#8220;beyond a reasonable doubt.&#8221;  The problem is that the report doesn&#8217;t explicitly say &#8220;Clemens used steroids.&#8221;  It says &#8220;so and so said that Clemens used steroids, and here&#8217;s a copy of a check he wrote.&#8221;  Unless the informant didn&#8217;t actually say those things, it&#8217;s hard to accuse the report of being inaccurate.  And it has to be explicitly wrong &#8212; I don&#8217;t think innuendo counts.</p>
<p>I would advise the players that they don&#8217;t have any legal recourse, although I&#8217;m sure there are plenty of money and attention-hungry attorneys who will take on such a case.  It complicates things that all of the players were given a chance to talk to Mitchell, but declined.</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75139</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75139</guid>
		<description>Where are the lawyers on this site? Any advice for some of these players?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where are the lawyers on this site? Any advice for some of these players?</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75136</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75136</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re waiting to hear from you ,Roger. It&#039;s Monday morning and your agent or lawyer should have a nicely worded statement like Andy&#039;s how you did it for the team. And Nook, where are you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re waiting to hear from you ,Roger. It&#8217;s Monday morning and your agent or lawyer should have a nicely worded statement like Andy&#8217;s how you did it for the team. And Nook, where are you?</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75127</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75127</guid>
		<description>How much financial reward do some of these guys need to risk their health. They&#039;re addicted to the fame and money and we&#039;re addicted to them. Who are the fools here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much financial reward do some of these guys need to risk their health. They&#8217;re addicted to the fame and money and we&#8217;re addicted to them. Who are the fools here?</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75124</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75124</guid>
		<description>Right from the mitchell report:

&lt;blockquote&gt;There is a widespread misconception that the use of steroids and other performance enhancing substances, such as human growth hormone, was not prohibited in Major League Baseball before the inclusion of the joint drug program in the 2002 Basic Agreement. In fact, as early as 1991 baseball’s drug policy expressly prohibited the use of “all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual … does not have a prescription.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right from the mitchell report:</p>
<blockquote><p>There is a widespread misconception that the use of steroids and other performance enhancing substances, such as human growth hormone, was not prohibited in Major League Baseball before the inclusion of the joint drug program in the 2002 Basic Agreement. In fact, as early as 1991 baseball’s drug policy expressly prohibited the use of “all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual … does not have a prescription.”</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: BobS.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75119</link>
		<dc:creator>BobS.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75119</guid>
		<description>Cortisone is a corticosteroid,a class of drugs which have fairly widespread conventional applications in medicine as anti-inflammatory agents in conditions ranging from asthma to orthopedic problems to immunosuppression in transplant patients.
Growth hormone has more specific applications and can be legally prescribed for hypopituitarism,which has various causes.Generally speaking,an endocrinologist should be consulted regarding it&#039;s use.Because of the medical-legal-ethical issues presently attached to it&#039;s use,most physicians would probably be reluctant to casually prescribe it to professional athletes as a training supplement or even to help recover from an injury.
I guess the answer to your question is that cortisone is used to treat an existing diagnosed medical problem,the same way some athletes are treated with insulin for their diabetes or chemotherapy for their cancer.Growth hormone is not used based on medical diagnosis,but usually for the sake of it&#039;s user to enhance an otherwise healthy body in order to gain a competitive edge.Like all medical treatment,there are potentially hazardous side effects that some users are obviously prepared to risk.The biggest problem I have with performance enhancing agents like growth hormone is that their use by some players force the Hobbesian choice on other players who otherwise wouldn&#039;t use them to either risk the potential lifelong medical complications associated with their use or lose their competitive edge and the financial reward that goes with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cortisone is a corticosteroid,a class of drugs which have fairly widespread conventional applications in medicine as anti-inflammatory agents in conditions ranging from asthma to orthopedic problems to immunosuppression in transplant patients.<br />
Growth hormone has more specific applications and can be legally prescribed for hypopituitarism,which has various causes.Generally speaking,an endocrinologist should be consulted regarding it&#8217;s use.Because of the medical-legal-ethical issues presently attached to it&#8217;s use,most physicians would probably be reluctant to casually prescribe it to professional athletes as a training supplement or even to help recover from an injury.<br />
I guess the answer to your question is that cortisone is used to treat an existing diagnosed medical problem,the same way some athletes are treated with insulin for their diabetes or chemotherapy for their cancer.Growth hormone is not used based on medical diagnosis,but usually for the sake of it&#8217;s user to enhance an otherwise healthy body in order to gain a competitive edge.Like all medical treatment,there are potentially hazardous side effects that some users are obviously prepared to risk.The biggest problem I have with performance enhancing agents like growth hormone is that their use by some players force the Hobbesian choice on other players who otherwise wouldn&#8217;t use them to either risk the potential lifelong medical complications associated with their use or lose their competitive edge and the financial reward that goes with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75116</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75116</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Why do (did) they use steroids?

Let’s provide an example. Let’s say you’re going to trade school along with a thousand other students (with whom you’re competing for a job, carreer, livlihood, etc.). Employers will hire you and pay you according to your performance on essays, tests, and grades — and moreover, on a bell curve, relative to your fellow students.

Now:

If the guy next to you is “getting ahead” and positioning himself, relative to you, e.g. advancing by using a cheat sheet, — and moreover, if ALL, or almost ALL the students and doing the same, where does that leave you? It leaves you on an unlevel playing field for being honest. Moreover, if “cheating” isn’t officially illegal at the trade school, what harm is there in it? Sure, it’s morally dubious, but there is no rule against it (circa 1990s). What to do? Watch the Tajada’s and Sosa’s of the world become stars are receive boat loads of $ and fat contracts while you sit back and “do the right thing?” at the risk of achieving a minor league glory for yourself and bagging groceries in your post athlete years?

I’m not condoning it, just providing a psychology of why everybody — and believe me — in the late 90s it was virtually everybody in the sport — was doing some kind of steriod or enhancement drug. As somebody else pointed out, it was the guys on the Mitchell report who were clumsy enough to get caught.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Didn&#039;t MLB have a rule against steroids on the books since 1991?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why do (did) they use steroids?</p>
<p>Let’s provide an example. Let’s say you’re going to trade school along with a thousand other students (with whom you’re competing for a job, carreer, livlihood, etc.). Employers will hire you and pay you according to your performance on essays, tests, and grades — and moreover, on a bell curve, relative to your fellow students.</p>
<p>Now:</p>
<p>If the guy next to you is “getting ahead” and positioning himself, relative to you, e.g. advancing by using a cheat sheet, — and moreover, if ALL, or almost ALL the students and doing the same, where does that leave you? It leaves you on an unlevel playing field for being honest. Moreover, if “cheating” isn’t officially illegal at the trade school, what harm is there in it? Sure, it’s morally dubious, but there is no rule against it (circa 1990s). What to do? Watch the Tajada’s and Sosa’s of the world become stars are receive boat loads of $ and fat contracts while you sit back and “do the right thing?” at the risk of achieving a minor league glory for yourself and bagging groceries in your post athlete years?</p>
<p>I’m not condoning it, just providing a psychology of why everybody — and believe me — in the late 90s it was virtually everybody in the sport — was doing some kind of steriod or enhancement drug. As somebody else pointed out, it was the guys on the Mitchell report who were clumsy enough to get caught.</p></blockquote>
<p>Didn&#8217;t MLB have a rule against steroids on the books since 1991?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75112</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 01:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75112</guid>
		<description>Interesting question:

What&#039;s the difference between cortisone and HGH when prescribed legally? Whys one against the rules and one not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting question:</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the difference between cortisone and HGH when prescribed legally? Whys one against the rules and one not.</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75108</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75108</guid>
		<description>Jim, don&#039;t forget the shrunken testicals. My wife would have killed me way before 60 no matter how big our bank account was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, don&#8217;t forget the shrunken testicals. My wife would have killed me way before 60 no matter how big our bank account was.</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75107</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75107</guid>
		<description>Speaking of children, make sure you explain to the little baseball fans about steroids and when you bought tickets  to a game, you were unwittingly? supporting and encouraging this habit and you will no longer spend your hard earned money on frauds. In fact, the next time they want to see a game, tell them to go outside and play ball. You might have a budding Justin running around the living room and not even know it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of children, make sure you explain to the little baseball fans about steroids and when you bought tickets  to a game, you were unwittingly? supporting and encouraging this habit and you will no longer spend your hard earned money on frauds. In fact, the next time they want to see a game, tell them to go outside and play ball. You might have a budding Justin running around the living room and not even know it.</p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75106</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/12/well-im-glad-thats-over/#comment-75106</guid>
		<description>Why would anybody take them?  

A number of these substances, were seen as little more than vitamins, and were widely considered harmless/safe by countless experts in the field at the time.  GNC sold a number of legal substances, over the counter, next to your vitamin B12 and protein supplements. A lot of these substances occur naturally in the body, and also naturally in some foods.  Over time, new research/data became available on these substances and they were banned by MLB.

To &#039;homogenize&#039; all these radically different cases is grossly inaccurate.  Most are unaware of this, but others, simply are uncomfortable when their over simplified view of things gets challenged by truth/reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would anybody take them?  </p>
<p>A number of these substances, were seen as little more than vitamins, and were widely considered harmless/safe by countless experts in the field at the time.  GNC sold a number of legal substances, over the counter, next to your vitamin B12 and protein supplements. A lot of these substances occur naturally in the body, and also naturally in some foods.  Over time, new research/data became available on these substances and they were banned by MLB.</p>
<p>To &#8216;homogenize&#8217; all these radically different cases is grossly inaccurate.  Most are unaware of this, but others, simply are uncomfortable when their over simplified view of things gets challenged by truth/reality.</p>
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