links for 2007-12-11

by billfer on December 11, 2007 · 25 comments

in Links

 
 

{ 25 comments }

Matt in Toledo December 11, 2007 at 10:54 am

Mike Hessman, Timo Perez, Tony Giarratano and Freddy Guzman are all on the 40-man roster and we lost Randor Bierd to Baltimore because he was the 41st man. To borrow a word from Bill, Huh.

Kathy December 11, 2007 at 11:00 am

Timo: a guy who had everything to gain and everything to lose and that’s how he played for the Tigers late in the season. Maybe they’ll use him as trade bait. Just guessing, though.

Derek December 11, 2007 at 11:08 am

Sickels listed Joyce as part of a block of “C’s” that could’ve been interchanged for the ones who did make the list

Walewander December 11, 2007 at 12:31 pm

Renteria wearing 8? Where’s the respect for Ne!f!?

Chris in Nashville December 11, 2007 at 1:23 pm

Yeah, I thought #8 would be retired from here on out.

greg December 11, 2007 at 1:28 pm

People love to bash Neifi, and I understand why, but don’t forget, no Neifi – no Verlander No hitter last year. He made a play that Guillen couldn’t even dream of making in a 100 years.

One Nut Kruk December 11, 2007 at 2:49 pm

Who cares? The guy made a great play and it was part of a no hitter. Every no hitter has great defensive plays. One play doesn’t make a career. They’re not going to tell Renteria he can’t have #8 because Neifi did something good for his team for the first time in his career. The guy is a poor excuse for a ball player and never should have been on the field in the first place.

Mike R December 11, 2007 at 4:36 pm

Eh. Matt Joyce regressed as his K/BB totals were no longer impressive due to his massive spike in K’s (99 K’s in his first near 800 PA’s, 127 K’s last year alone). Plus, he’s been old for each level, even if he is coming out of college. Add that with being a 13th round draft pick and there’s not a TON to get excited about.

Mike R December 11, 2007 at 4:38 pm

Oh, add to the fact that John Sickels rankings as a whole this year have been suspect at best. For me, Baseball Prospectus has been the best so far, but I’m partial to Project Prospect, a small, prospect site which is more focused on quantitatively dissecting prospects rather then having scout influenced rankings (Like Baseball America, which there is nothing wrong with that, just a nice alternative).

Matt in Toledo December 11, 2007 at 5:32 pm

He (Joyce) turned 23 at the end of the season this year. I wouldn’t call that old for AA. Not only that, he maintained or improved his rate stats (other than Ks) while jumping from Lo A to AA. Finally, he’s reputed to be fantastic in the outfield.

Walbeck said the reason he could keep Joyce in there when he was struggling so bad early on was because his defense was so good. I put more faith in that assessment than BA’s giving him the league’s best defensive outfielder award.

That’s promising power and plus defense. Sounds like a useful player to me, and a solid top twenty prospect in this system. Certainly not to be confused as interchangeable with Clevlen or Rhymes.

charlie December 11, 2007 at 5:33 pm

as much as many of us love to hate neifi…the guy has done things and has money in the bank like most of us can only dream about. how many teams and how many millions did this guy get thrown at him?

kids playing little league ball dream about being a-rod’s and sizemore’s and polanco’s but how many guys in the minors would kill to have a career like the infamous neifi? i’m betting lots.

Dave December 11, 2007 at 5:49 pm

ONK, please oh god please tell me you really thought Walewander and Chris were being serious.

Anyway, I assumed that – in order to have the length of career that he has – Neifi was at one point an above average player, but a quick look at baseball-reference shows that he has always been mediocre to awful. His marquee season was an ops+ of 86 in the hilariously awesome 1997 incarnation of Coors Field.

Joey the K December 11, 2007 at 5:56 pm

Maybe talking of trading Brandon to Pittsburgh will get him to change his stance on being a utility player in Detroit…

Chris in Nashville December 11, 2007 at 7:28 pm

I was totally kidding to clear that up. What would we be getting back for Inge from the Pirates? Maybe some bullpen help? Any news on this would be appreciated.

Mike R December 11, 2007 at 10:23 pm

He (Joyce) turned 23 at the end of the season this year. I wouldn’t call that old for AA. Not only that, he maintained or improved his rate stats (other than Ks) while jumping from Lo A to AA. Finally, he’s reputed to be fantastic in the outfield.

Walbeck said the reason he could keep Joyce in there when he was struggling so bad early on was because his defense was so good. I put more faith in that assessment than BA’s giving him the league’s best defensive outfielder award.

That’s promising power and plus defense. Sounds like a useful player to me, and a solid top twenty prospect in this system. Certainly not to be confused as interchangeable with Clevlen or Rhymes.

While he’s not overly old, he has been older then his competition and his K numbers took a huge nosedive. It’s great that he can slug, but a .330′s OBP and bad K:BB ratios negate that. I want to see if this was a one year thing or if Double-A — largely regarded as where they separate pretenders from real prospects — exposed his swing.

greg December 11, 2007 at 11:10 pm

Quote:

Who cares? The guy made a great play and it was part of a no hitter. Every no hitter has great defensive plays. One play doesn’t make a career. They’re not going to tell Renteria he can’t have #8 because Neifi did something good for his team for the first time in his career. The guy is a poor excuse for a ball player and never should have been on the field in the first place.

unquote:

Who cares about a great play to save a no hitter? OK. You may not care. But close to 40,000 at Comerica that night cared. Let me go out on a limb to say that not everyone shares your sentiment that nobody cares about Justin’s nohitter…..call me crazy.

Career? What? Read my post again. I said nothing about telling Renteria to take a different number. The other 2 posters were obviously joking.

quote:

The guy is a poor excuse for a ball player and never should have been on the field in the first place.

unquote

Such intense hatred for Perez. Did he slug your kid at the fanfest or something? I just mentioned he made a great play on a very special night(well, at least I thought it was special), guess I should have ducked.

Dave December 11, 2007 at 11:27 pm

I actually was starting to like the guy. His home run at Kauffman off Neal Musser was one of the funniest moments of the whole season last year.

Mike R December 12, 2007 at 2:48 am

Greg, let’s be reasonable here … Neifi would likely flail at a child if he attempted to slug them.

Kathy December 12, 2007 at 7:50 am

Greg, like I said before: I like to remember Neifi with that beautiful play in Verlander’s no-no. Never had the hatred others had for him but at some point in his career he was pretty good with his glove and still showed flashes of it. Couldn’t hit a lick, though.

Matt in Toledo December 12, 2007 at 8:15 am

I don’t want to seem like a Joyce fanboy, but I don’t get the “older than his competition argument” for his 2007 numbers. The average age in AA was about 25 last year and if you scroll through the league leaders at firstinning.com, there are really only a handful of players who were younger.

I understand the Ks are alarming, but a 2.5:1 K:BB ratio is something you can work with if not ideal. I don’t think anybody is saying he’s filling the gap Maybin left, but to imply he’s an afterthought in a barren system doesn’t add up.

greg December 12, 2007 at 8:34 am

LOL – that was pretty funny Mike

One Nut Kruk December 12, 2007 at 9:23 am

Unlike Inge, at least Neifi realizes he blows, knows his role and will warm the bench without complaint.

Mike R December 13, 2007 at 1:16 am

I don’t want to seem like a Joyce fanboy, but I don’t get the “older than his competition argument” for his 2007 numbers. The average age in AA was about 25 last year and if you scroll through the league leaders at firstinning.com, there are really only a handful of players who were younger.

I understand the Ks are alarming, but a 2.5:1 K:BB ratio is something you can work with if not ideal. I don’t think anybody is saying he’s filling the gap Maybin left, but to imply he’s an afterthought in a barren system doesn’t add up.

He’s ‘old’ for the level in prospect terms. How many of those other mid 20′s kids in Double-A have any real shot at the majors? While his K:BB numbers are still okay at 2.5:1, it’s kind of alarming that a regression came at such a crucial stage in identifying the winners from the losers, so to speak, in the prospect world.

I have no problem with him being on the back end of the list, and we’re just splitting hairs, but I just don’t see a whole ton to get excited about unless he can show that it was just an extremely tough adjustment period (granted he did hit poorly in April and May and those deflate his numbers). I’m not saying he’s supposed to fill the gap with Maybin’d departure, and I think even having Brent Clevlen listed when discussing Tigers prospects — no matter how barren the system is now — is a joke. So him being above Joyce is bothersome but I don’t hold a ton of qualms about Joyce not being on the top 20 just like I wouldn’t have many if he were in the 15-20 range, since we’re a bottom 3rd farm system now.

David December 13, 2007 at 1:32 am

lol

Neifi what a waste of space

BTW

OUCH

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/Kevin-Whelan.shtml

Could have been our in-house option

Hopefully Shef stays healthy all year and if he doesn’t Leyland doesn’t let him hit (or lackthereof)

I’ve got to say I wonder if how Larish is going to crack this lineup this year or next…

He’d be a really good LH power hitter.

Matt in Toledo December 13, 2007 at 8:17 am

There were 12 batters in the Eastern League with more than 200 at bats who were younger than Matt Joyce in 2007. Again, I just don’t see how that makes him old for his level regardless of whether you’re comparing him with real prospects or not.

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