Comments on: Valuing Kenny Rogers

By: The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Rogers, Rumors, and the Winter Meetings

Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:37:05 +0000

[...] I looked at what the Tigers should pay Rogers it appears that the Tigers did well. They are at the higher end, but only marginally so, in terms [...]

By: ron

ron — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:47:05 +0000

Do you really think Mags would stand at the plate watching a homer in 1968 without getting some serious chin music the next time up? You’d better be able to lay down a bunt to move players along too. How about throwing the ball to the plate on the fly from 200 ft. away without bouncing it. Can these players stand in the box without adjusting every thing but their bra strap between pitches. How about all those half swings. Make up your mind for crying out loud. And as far as crying out loud goes-quit doing that too.

By: David

David — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:05:50 +0000

What categorie would Higginson fall under?

By: greg

greg — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 03:50:51 +0000

Nope, no longing here, just an observation.

Bob wrote:

And you,apparently,by dismissing values like integrity,passion,etc. in the present day player who you seem to think so little of.

Unqoute

No I did not dismiss them. In my brevity, I can see how that sentence could be misinterpreted. They are certainly present, just to a somewhat lesser degree, but that’s why I love guys like Inge, Granderson, Leyland, Ryan Freel, Eric Byrnes. I love these guys and others like them. Unfortunately, there’s been an increase of the number of ballplayers who show apathy, lollygag, lack of hustle. An increase in those who show a lack of proper respect for managers and other players(Milton Bradley, Jose Guillen types). The large salaries have created bigger egos. It’s not just my observation, players and coaches have spoken about it or addressed it in interviews. But there are still a lot of good guys out there. Dombrowski is one of the good guys, and he knows how to assemble guys with character.

By: BobS.

BobS. — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 02:25:56 +0000

Who’s longing?
ron,for one,who started this conversation by declaring he “liked it better when the owners held the players in servitude.”
And you,apparently,by dismissing values like integrity,passion,etc. in the present day player who you seem to think so little of.
Thirty years of free agency haven’t changed the human nature of the people playing the game that much.You over-estimate those qualities in players of the past,and you under-estimate them now.

By: greg

greg — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:49:59 +0000

Bob, who here is ‘longing’? I think some people are just calling a spade a spade and, for some reason, this honesty has gotten under some peoples skin. Why would it bother some people that, while they like both versions of the game, they prefer the ‘good ole’ days’?

Silly to value integrity, loyalty, team identity & solidarity, playing with passion, intensity, mutual respect?

Ok, I confess, call me silly, life goes on.

Peace. Go Tigers.

By: BobS.

BobS. — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:56:32 +0000

I agree about the silliness of longing for a romanticized past of restricted freedom.People who believe there were ever ‘good old days’ either didn’t experience them and believe the sanitized version they got from grade school textbooks or they lived through them and now suffer from historical amnesia.

By: luke

luke — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:01:28 +0000

Don wrote:

I honestly do not understand what you are talking about because you cannot give even one example.

unquote.

Don, do you really expect anyone to take you seriously with comments like that? Read the Sienfeld remarks again. Denying lucid examples is not very impresive.

Totally agree Greg and Ron. Steroids, HGH, free agency, high turnover on the roster, players being less durable, more showboating, numerous players lack of hustle, pitchers being extremely fragile, pitchers held to pitch counts under 100 when they routinely topped the 200 pitch count without missing a beat ‘back in the good ‘ol days’. Time on DL increasing exponentially. There are countless examples of how the game has significantly changed, one could write a novel.

This argument is silly.

By: tiger fan

tiger fan — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:46:35 +0000

classy way to close debate

By: greg

greg — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:22:11 +0000

Don – Dude, calm down. Geeze. Believe what you want to believe, as this really seems to be a burning issue with you.

By: Don

Don — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:39:54 +0000

and like billfer said, it’s a 6 BILLION dollar a year industry, if the anti-trust exemption is repealed, what happens? it’s a 5 BILLION dollar a year industry. sfw?

I hate to argue with fellow tiger fans, so forgive me, but the whole “players these days are nothing but greedy mercenary bastards” and the “it was better in the old days” arguments are two of my personal pet peeves.

By: Don

Don — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:36:40 +0000

Greg, you make my point for me. I ask for any specific examples of how baseball was better “way back when.” All you respond with is things like “other people in baseball think that” and “jerry seinfeld said that” and “I see every week of every season, … its very obvious to me that the game is significantly different.” WHAT? What do you see? I honestly do not understand what you are talking about because you cannot give even one example.

Were players “better” 30 or 40 years ago? No. The overall quality of play today is better than it’s ever been. So what? I don’t understand how a player’s checking account balance translates onto the what you claim to see.

Is it “right” that ballplayers make 300 times more than school teacher or fire-fighters? No, that’s not the point, point is, this is an entertainment industry, it’s huge and the players benefit. So what?

It’s ok, though, greg, in 40 years I’ll probably tell my grandkids that ballplayers these days, what with their $300 million annual salaries, aren’t piss compared to back in my day, when guys like granderson and verlander knew what a buck was worth! That’s when it was a game!

By: On pitching: Rogers and Livan? Aiii! » Mack Avenue Tigers : A Detroit Tigers Blog

Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:56:49 +0000

[...] earlier this week posted an interesting valuation on what Rogers should justifiably be paid, and I have to say, it looks pretty fair at $7M plus [...]

By: BobS.

BobS. — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:55:36 +0000

Great comment about competition among Fortune 500 CEOs.
Like Citibank’s Charles Prince,who walked away with $42M after presiding over a $6.5B markdown.
And Stanley O’ Neal of Merrill Lynch,$161M richer after Merrill Lynch lost $8B.
That’s a pretty special type of competition.
The anti-trust exemption(based on the ridiculous notion that MLB was not interstate commerce),which has historically benefitted the Princes and O’ Neals, should have been revoked a long time ago,but then again,the reserve clause(which is a contract law issue), should have been revoked long before 1975.
Teams being allowed to move without restriction would potentially have the effect more teams migrating to bigger markets like New York and New England, decreasing the value of those franchises and the amount of money they were able to offer players,thereby lowering the bar for everyone.On the other hand,competing leagues could have just the opposite effect.
Of course it’s a business for the players.It’s always been a business.The difference is,since 1975,they have greater leverage in determining their compensation,a negotiating position any of us would enjoy sharing.I tend to agree they’re overpaid for the relative value to society of what they do,but that’s not a legitimate argument for removing their right to negotiate a contract with the team of their choice.
By the way,thanks for reading Parker so I don’t have to.There’s no one more moronic in Detroit sports reporting.He seriously thinks the Rays would consider trading Kazmir in return for Rayburn and Thames?

By: ron

ron — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:15:33 +0000

Make no mistake about it. This is a business to these players. They don’t care what uniform or what city they’re representing. They go where the money is. They conveniently have career years in their opt out years. They sit down for inordinately long periods of rehab to protect their future earning power [why does Mickey Mantle limping around the bases come to mind?] The 16 million dollar man we have in right field is afraid to go near the outfield wall to make a catch although he’s got that slide down pretty good[ahh, Kaline]. Think the 16 million dollar man knew who Kaline was if he wasn’t an announcer? The home run king Baroid was indicted today. Take a shot, hit more home runs, make more money. How many wins did Rogers have last year? Oh yeh, he deserves 14mil. The whole of baseball is taking us for a ride. This isn’t Goldman Sachs, its a game. Hit the ball safely 3 out of 10 times and every 5 games win3 and lose 2. Is that too much to ask of an obscene 100 million$ team. Oh yeh I forgot, we just want to be entertained. And if they do win it all, I guess we can expect those box seats to top 100 $ like in NY and Boston. But we’ll pay it because Britney just doesnt do it for us any more.