Comments on: The Tigers Defense - What are the Odds? http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:41:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Where should Cabrera play? http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74701 The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Where should Cabrera play? Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:37:36 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74701 [...] I’ll turn to the methodology I deployed a couple weeks ago when I was giddy about the Tigers infield defense. Using PMR, we know that Brandon Inge is about 20 plays better than predicted over 4000 balls in [...] [...] I’ll turn to the methodology I deployed a couple weeks ago when I was giddy about the Tigers infield defense. Using PMR, we know that Brandon Inge is about 20 plays better than predicted over 4000 balls in [...]

]]> By: Mike R http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74087 Mike R Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:59:15 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74087 we agree, then Kyle. although, I do not think Thames would hit 35-40 HR's if given 600 AB's. I think pitchers would expose the holes in his swing. we agree, then Kyle. although, I do not think Thames would hit 35-40 HR’s if given 600 AB’s. I think pitchers would expose the holes in his swing.

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74060 Kyle J Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:02:53 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74060 It was directed at Bob. Perhaps, "pretty solid" was the wrong choice of words. I meant in the sense of "not a major detriment to the team." Obviously, it wasn't a major asset, either. So "average" probably somes it up. But, again, one can live with average fielding from a guy who could plausibly hit 35-40 HR if given a full season of at bats. It was directed at Bob.

Perhaps, “pretty solid” was the wrong choice of words. I meant in the sense of “not a major detriment to the team.” Obviously, it wasn’t a major asset, either. So “average” probably somes it up. But, again, one can live with average fielding from a guy who could plausibly hit 35-40 HR if given a full season of at bats.

]]> By: Mike R http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74045 Mike R Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:26:23 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74045 <blockquote>Thames has the body of a bad defender. My recollection is that he actually made some solid plays. The stats seems to bear that out. Obviously, I can’t ask you to cite specific bad plays he’s made, but I think you’re judging him on the way he looks, not the way he plays. Sort of the opposite of the Jeter thing: He looks athletic, so he must be a Gold Glover, right?</blockquote> If this is directed at me, no i'm not judging him based on his linebacker like frame. I've seen some metrics that have rated him slightly below average. Like <a href="http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pfk_WuYpfduzefA8-s0_iYw&gid=5" rel="nofollow">this one</a> that puts him at a -0.8 runs in LF. It also rates Craig Monroe at a plus 4.5 runs. Defensive metrics range based on the source as they're much harder to gauge. So, using all of them and my own eyes, I think he's just a hair below average. I'm not saying he's Adam Dunn in LF, but he's not exactly Eric Byrnes either. In the end, I don't differ much from the PMR that Billfer cited in this post, as we (the PMR and I) both think he's near average.

Thames has the body of a bad defender.

My recollection is that he actually made some solid plays. The stats seems to bear that out.

Obviously, I can’t ask you to cite specific bad plays he’s made, but I think you’re judging him on the way he looks, not the way he plays.

Sort of the opposite of the Jeter thing: He looks athletic, so he must be a Gold Glover, right?

If this is directed at me, no i’m not judging him based on his linebacker like frame. I’ve seen some metrics that have rated him slightly below average. Like this one that puts him at a -0.8 runs in LF. It also rates Craig Monroe at a plus 4.5 runs. Defensive metrics range based on the source as they’re much harder to gauge. So, using all of them and my own eyes, I think he’s just a hair below average. I’m not saying he’s Adam Dunn in LF, but he’s not exactly Eric Byrnes either. In the end, I don’t differ much from the PMR that Billfer cited in this post, as we (the PMR and I) both think he’s near average.

]]> By: BobS. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74044 BobS. Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:51:25 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74044 Of course my statements were hyperbolic-as they were intended to be. Actually,I think Kyle J may be onto something.Thames less than elegant approach to defense may make him appear less effective than he actually is.Offhand,I can't think of another outfielder who manages to catch as many misplayed balls as Thames.Not to mention he sometimes looks like he's playing with a borrowed glove. Of course my statements were hyperbolic-as they were intended to be.
Actually,I think Kyle J may be onto something.Thames less than elegant approach to defense may make him appear less effective than he actually is.Offhand,I can’t think of another outfielder who manages to catch as many misplayed balls as Thames.Not to mention he sometimes looks like he’s playing with a borrowed glove.

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74043 Kyle J Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:31:39 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74043 Thames has the body of a bad defender. My recollection is that he actually made some solid plays. The stats seems to bear that out. Obviously, I can't ask you to cite specific bad plays he's made, but I think you're judging him on the way he looks, not the way he plays. Sort of the opposite of the Jeter thing: He looks athletic, so he must be a Gold Glover, right? Thames has the body of a bad defender.

My recollection is that he actually made some solid plays. The stats seems to bear that out.

Obviously, I can’t ask you to cite specific bad plays he’s made, but I think you’re judging him on the way he looks, not the way he plays.

Sort of the opposite of the Jeter thing: He looks athletic, so he must be a Gold Glover, right?

]]> By: Mike R http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74042 Mike R Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:49:45 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74042 Nitpicking but 'pretty solid' is an overstatement for Thames' average defense. Pretty solid to me means like, a 2nd tiered defender. Either way, I like the PMR stats but I think Thames is slightly worse then average defensively. Not a ton, maybe to the tune of, say, 3-4 runs total, but slightly below average nonetheless. Again, just nit picking. Nitpicking but ‘pretty solid’ is an overstatement for Thames’ average defense. Pretty solid to me means like, a 2nd tiered defender. Either way, I like the PMR stats but I think Thames is slightly worse then average defensively. Not a ton, maybe to the tune of, say, 3-4 runs total, but slightly below average nonetheless.

Again, just nit picking.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74041 billfer Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:11:37 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74041 Hyperbole much BobS? Talk about overstatements. I don't know how good Thames is in left field. What I do know is that the bench combined to be good defensively in left field, and that Thames logged nearly half of the innings in that group. So either Timo, Raburn, and Maybin combined to be spectacular, or Thames was around average. I'll bet on the latter. Therefore, pretty solid is hardly an overstatement. Hyperbole much BobS? Talk about overstatements.

I don’t know how good Thames is in left field. What I do know is that the bench combined to be good defensively in left field, and that Thames logged nearly half of the innings in that group. So either Timo, Raburn, and Maybin combined to be spectacular, or Thames was around average. I’ll bet on the latter. Therefore, pretty solid is hardly an overstatement.

]]> By: Jim http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74040 Jim Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:58:52 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74040 Don't forget maybin in left too...lol Don’t forget maybin in left too…lol

]]> By: BobS. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74039 BobS. Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:28:00 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/the-tigers-defense-what-are-the-odds/#comment-74039 Those metrics seem to corroborate the collective judgement of the commenters here. It's somewhat of an over-statement calling Marcus Thames defensive play "pretty solid"-other phrases that come more readily to mind when describing his defensive prowess are 'nail biting' or 'sphincter tightening'.Generally speaking,it's probably a good idea to cover the eyes of small children when balls are hit in his general direction. As Sam points out in describing Monroe's clumsiness in the field,with some outfielders those "running catches" are indications that the player got a poor jump from an inability to read the ball coming off the bat-Thames is one of those guys. Those metrics seem to corroborate the collective judgement of the commenters here.
It’s somewhat of an over-statement calling Marcus Thames defensive play “pretty solid”-other phrases that come more readily to mind when describing his defensive prowess are ‘nail biting’ or ’sphincter tightening’.Generally speaking,it’s probably a good idea to cover the eyes of small children when balls are hit in his general direction.
As Sam points out in describing Monroe’s clumsiness in the field,with some outfielders those “running catches” are indications that the player got a poor jump from an inability to read the ball coming off the bat-Thames is one of those guys.

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