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	<title>Comments on: links for 2007-11-05</title>
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	<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/</link>
	<description>News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73442</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 06:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73442</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Mike R you forgot RF and DH assuming both are healthy…

Why go after Jenkins? I’d really like to see what Ryan Raburn could do over a full year.

Taking his stats from last year and multiplying it by 3 (so he would play 147 games.

84 runs, 81 rbis, 9 steals, 12 hrs, 6 triples, 36 doubles, .847 OPS, with what you guys seem to love so much a .304 BA

would Jenkins be better?

Raburn is turning 27

I’d say use the 5.5 mil or w/e they would spend on Jenkins or Stewart and use it towards another SP after Kenny (assuming he comes back for 8mil or so)

If Raburn doesn’t work out (I don’t see why he wouldn’t his minor league stats are good and he is entering his “prime”) you always can make a deal in June or w/e when some clubs have given up.

Unless they want to go after Miguel Cabrera and give up Maybin and two other good prospects and then I’m all for it.

Or go after Rowand.

I do not want a blah LF for 4-6 mil when we could easily fill that with a platoon or a deadline pickup.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well, I'm assuming that Omar Infante won't be back meaning that Raburn then takes over the super-sub position of backing up 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF, and RF. 

Aaron Rowand is going to be grossly over paid. Like, insanely over paid. Not to mention, he's got injury questions and seems to embody all that you expressed concerns over Jenkins. And doesn't fix the "no LH bat" that the Tigers have been pining for for the last few years.

And what will be available at the deadline, will that be any upgrade at all? Adam Dunn, I suppose, but the price for him will be high and he's absolutely brutal in LF -- almost to the point where his defense undoes the great things he does with the stick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Mike R you forgot RF and DH assuming both are healthy…</p>
<p>Why go after Jenkins? I’d really like to see what Ryan Raburn could do over a full year.</p>
<p>Taking his stats from last year and multiplying it by 3 (so he would play 147 games.</p>
<p>84 runs, 81 rbis, 9 steals, 12 hrs, 6 triples, 36 doubles, .847 OPS, with what you guys seem to love so much a .304 BA</p>
<p>would Jenkins be better?</p>
<p>Raburn is turning 27</p>
<p>I’d say use the 5.5 mil or w/e they would spend on Jenkins or Stewart and use it towards another SP after Kenny (assuming he comes back for 8mil or so)</p>
<p>If Raburn doesn’t work out (I don’t see why he wouldn’t his minor league stats are good and he is entering his “prime”) you always can make a deal in June or w/e when some clubs have given up.</p>
<p>Unless they want to go after Miguel Cabrera and give up Maybin and two other good prospects and then I’m all for it.</p>
<p>Or go after Rowand.</p>
<p>I do not want a blah LF for 4-6 mil when we could easily fill that with a platoon or a deadline pickup.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, I&#8217;m assuming that Omar Infante won&#8217;t be back meaning that Raburn then takes over the super-sub position of backing up 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF, and RF. </p>
<p>Aaron Rowand is going to be grossly over paid. Like, insanely over paid. Not to mention, he&#8217;s got injury questions and seems to embody all that you expressed concerns over Jenkins. And doesn&#8217;t fix the &#8220;no LH bat&#8221; that the Tigers have been pining for for the last few years.</p>
<p>And what will be available at the deadline, will that be any upgrade at all? Adam Dunn, I suppose, but the price for him will be high and he&#8217;s absolutely brutal in LF &#8212; almost to the point where his defense undoes the great things he does with the stick.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle J</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73435</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 04:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73435</guid>
		<description>Granderson started 140 games this season (3 in LF, the rest in CF).

The Tigers played 43 games vs. left-handed pitchers.

So it appears Granderson didn't start about half the games vs. left-handed pitchers.

The fact that his L/R AB ratio is about the same as Magglio's indicates he faced some extra at bats vs. left-handed relievers.  In some cases, his defense no doubt justified this in games the Tigers were ahead (see Bilfer's post on defensive stats).

There's also the matter of whether it's smart to completely bench a relatively young player against all left-handers, depriving him of the ability to develop as a hitter against lefties.  And, of course, teams don't have unlimited benches and can't pinch hit in every situation.

Anyway, he gave us 530+ PA of a 1.014 OPS against right-handers.  The .494 OPS against left-handers is certainly cause for real concern--but every baseball player is a sum of his parts.  And I'd be pleased to make a decent wager that the .494 # regresses upward next season.

I hope this assessment is worthy of at least a 12-year old level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Granderson started 140 games this season (3 in LF, the rest in CF).</p>
<p>The Tigers played 43 games vs. left-handed pitchers.</p>
<p>So it appears Granderson didn&#8217;t start about half the games vs. left-handed pitchers.</p>
<p>The fact that his L/R AB ratio is about the same as Magglio&#8217;s indicates he faced some extra at bats vs. left-handed relievers.  In some cases, his defense no doubt justified this in games the Tigers were ahead (see Bilfer&#8217;s post on defensive stats).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also the matter of whether it&#8217;s smart to completely bench a relatively young player against all left-handers, depriving him of the ability to develop as a hitter against lefties.  And, of course, teams don&#8217;t have unlimited benches and can&#8217;t pinch hit in every situation.</p>
<p>Anyway, he gave us 530+ PA of a 1.014 OPS against right-handers.  The .494 OPS against left-handers is certainly cause for real concern&#8211;but every baseball player is a sum of his parts.  And I&#8217;d be pleased to make a decent wager that the .494 # regresses upward next season.</p>
<p>I hope this assessment is worthy of at least a 12-year old level.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73428</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73428</guid>
		<description>Mike R you forgot RF and DH assuming both are healthy...

Why go after Jenkins?  I'd really like to see what Ryan Raburn could do over a full year.

Taking his stats from last year and multiplying it by 3 (so he would play 147 games.

84 runs, 81 rbis, 9 steals, 12 hrs, 6 triples, 36 doubles, .847 OPS, with what you guys seem to love so much a .304 BA

would Jenkins be better?

Raburn is turning 27


I'd say use the 5.5 mil or w/e they would spend on Jenkins or Stewart and use it towards another SP after Kenny (assuming he comes back for 8mil or so)

If Raburn doesn't work out (I don't see why he wouldn't his minor league stats are good and he is entering his "prime") you always can make a deal in June or w/e when some clubs have given up.

Unless they want to go after Miguel Cabrera and give up Maybin and two other good prospects and then I'm all for it.

Or go after Rowand.

I do not want a blah LF for 4-6 mil when we could easily fill that with a platoon or a deadline pickup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike R you forgot RF and DH assuming both are healthy&#8230;</p>
<p>Why go after Jenkins?  I&#8217;d really like to see what Ryan Raburn could do over a full year.</p>
<p>Taking his stats from last year and multiplying it by 3 (so he would play 147 games.</p>
<p>84 runs, 81 rbis, 9 steals, 12 hrs, 6 triples, 36 doubles, .847 OPS, with what you guys seem to love so much a .304 BA</p>
<p>would Jenkins be better?</p>
<p>Raburn is turning 27</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say use the 5.5 mil or w/e they would spend on Jenkins or Stewart and use it towards another SP after Kenny (assuming he comes back for 8mil or so)</p>
<p>If Raburn doesn&#8217;t work out (I don&#8217;t see why he wouldn&#8217;t his minor league stats are good and he is entering his &#8220;prime&#8221;) you always can make a deal in June or w/e when some clubs have given up.</p>
<p>Unless they want to go after Miguel Cabrera and give up Maybin and two other good prospects and then I&#8217;m all for it.</p>
<p>Or go after Rowand.</p>
<p>I do not want a blah LF for 4-6 mil when we could easily fill that with a platoon or a deadline pickup.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Cioe</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73427</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Cioe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73427</guid>
		<description>Bob,

I only said the last part of the season because that's most of what I watched.

Eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>I only said the last part of the season because that&#8217;s most of what I watched.</p>
<p>Eric</p>
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		<title>By: BobS.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73426</link>
		<dc:creator>BobS.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73426</guid>
		<description>I don't know,Eric.How many?And why was he left in to bat against a LHP anyway,if the situation was crucial enough for the opposing manager to bring one in to pitch for him?Certainly there was at least one right-hand batting pitcher sitting on the bench who could have shown more than Granderson's flailing.
There does seem to be some confusion as to whether it was "most of last season" or "the later part of the season" when Granderson sat against lefthanders.Implicit in the comments,however,are at least some degree of approval for Leyland coming to his senses and not having Granderson bat against lefthanders.
Shannon Stewart?I guess,if there's no porcelain dolls available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know,Eric.How many?And why was he left in to bat against a LHP anyway,if the situation was crucial enough for the opposing manager to bring one in to pitch for him?Certainly there was at least one right-hand batting pitcher sitting on the bench who could have shown more than Granderson&#8217;s flailing.<br />
There does seem to be some confusion as to whether it was &#8220;most of last season&#8221; or &#8220;the later part of the season&#8221; when Granderson sat against lefthanders.Implicit in the comments,however,are at least some degree of approval for Leyland coming to his senses and not having Granderson bat against lefthanders.<br />
Shannon Stewart?I guess,if there&#8217;s no porcelain dolls available.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73425</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73425</guid>
		<description>The constant steadfast Granderson discussions make me long for a Brandon Inge debate again. You know, for something fresh and not beaten to death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The constant steadfast Granderson discussions make me long for a Brandon Inge debate again. You know, for something fresh and not beaten to death.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Cioe</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73423</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Cioe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73423</guid>
		<description>Bob,

But how many of those 119 ABs by Granderson against lefties were against starters versus situational lefties?  I mean, Jim Thome and David Ortiz probably saw a lot more ABs against lefties than the rest of their team, if only because, like Granderson, they don't do as well against lefties.  I watched games in the later part of the season where Granderson started the day on the bench because there was a left-handed starter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>But how many of those 119 ABs by Granderson against lefties were against starters versus situational lefties?  I mean, Jim Thome and David Ortiz probably saw a lot more ABs against lefties than the rest of their team, if only because, like Granderson, they don&#8217;t do as well against lefties.  I watched games in the later part of the season where Granderson started the day on the bench because there was a left-handed starter.</p>
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		<title>By: BobS.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73420</link>
		<dc:creator>BobS.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73420</guid>
		<description>An excellent point,Kyle,if it were supported by reality.
Granderson had 119AB against lefthanders,out of a total of 612AB.Ordonez,by comparison,who is definitely not likely to be sitting against lefthanders,had 122AB against LHP out of a total of 595AB.
Not clouded.Eclipsed by fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent point,Kyle,if it were supported by reality.<br />
Granderson had 119AB against lefthanders,out of a total of 612AB.Ordonez,by comparison,who is definitely not likely to be sitting against lefthanders,had 122AB against LHP out of a total of 595AB.<br />
Not clouded.Eclipsed by fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle J</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73412</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73412</guid>
		<description>Bob, You claim Granderson should be a platoon player.  I point out that he was, in fact, used like a platoon player most of last season.  Please explain where you see that my judgement is clouded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, You claim Granderson should be a platoon player.  I point out that he was, in fact, used like a platoon player most of last season.  Please explain where you see that my judgement is clouded.</p>
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		<title>By: BobS.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73411</link>
		<dc:creator>BobS.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/11/links-for-2007-11-05/#comment-73411</guid>
		<description>Thank you,Eric.I wasn't aware of Jenkin's declining performance against LHP.Apparently his recent production makes current comparisons to Granderson even more apt.And also illustrates that improvement isn't inevitable.
Sorry,but repeatedly invoking Sizemore (as has been done more here on this thread and previously than my facetious HoF nominations) as Granderson's model for career development is based more on closing eyes and wishing,i.e.magical thinking, than actual facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you,Eric.I wasn&#8217;t aware of Jenkin&#8217;s declining performance against LHP.Apparently his recent production makes current comparisons to Granderson even more apt.And also illustrates that improvement isn&#8217;t inevitable.<br />
Sorry,but repeatedly invoking Sizemore (as has been done more here on this thread and previously than my facetious HoF nominations) as Granderson&#8217;s model for career development is based more on closing eyes and wishing,i.e.magical thinking, than actual facts.</p>
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